God Is a Physical Being

[Carl Emerson]

If you know Him you will never throw in the towel.

 

[JAL]

If you know Him you will never throw in the towel.

Agreed.

 

[Perciville]

Well, Jesus is a Physical being as he is a man. Holy Spirit is a spirit and God the Father most prob can do whatever he wants.

 

[JAL]

Well, Jesus is a Physical being as he is a man. Holy Spirit is a spirit and God the Father most prob can do whatever he wants.

No, God is not a "spirit". The term ruach/pneuma means physical wind/breath instead of spirit/ghost. Here's two examples:

"He [physically] breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy [Breath/Wind]'"(John 20:22).

"And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting...They were all filled with the Holy [Wind/Breath]" (Acts 2).

Several more examples can be found on this thread.

 

[Perciville]

The Hebrew word Ruach and Greek word Pneuma can be translated into Spirit, but its the context that matters, for example

Proverbs 17:22 -
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine:
but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

The word for spirit there is the same word used in

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

In Proverbs 17:22, King Solomon is not talking about Gods Ruach, but a man's spirit, and he is not talking about breath or wind either but a human spirit.

Mark 3:30
Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
The word for spirit there is the same word from in Acts 2 and John 20:22.
The man had a unclean breath or wind? NO, he had a demon, an unclean spirit.

God is not a "spirit"; he is the Holy Spirit from God part of the Trinity. You can call him breathe or wind if you like it's not wrong, but those words can be translated Spirit and, in many cases, should be translated as Spirit.

 

[Perciville]

IF we don't translate it to spirit we miss important details for example

John 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

If we take your approach it would be

God is a breath: and they that worship him must worship him in wind and in truth.

In wind and truth? in breath and truth? Makes 0 sense

God is a Wind? I'm sorry mate but ask any scholor and spirit is a 100% legit translation.

 

[JAL]

IF we don't translate it to spirit we miss important details for example

John 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

If we take your approach it would be

God is a breath: and they that worship him must worship him in wind and in truth.

In wind and truth? in breath and truth? Makes 0 sense

God is a Wind? I'm sorry mate but ask any scholor and spirit is a 100% legit translation.

2,000 years of indoctrination into Platonic thinking is what causes you to think that way. You've been brainwashed with expressions like "mind over matter" as if the mind were immaterial. For example posts 189 to 192 prove that the human mind is tangible/material.

I'm sorry mate but ask any scholor and spirit is a 100% legit translation.

Spirit became considered a legitimate translation after Plato! Until then, NO ONE even considered it for ruach/pneuma. Want proof? Take any Philosophy 101 class and here's what you'll find out:
(1) No scholar traces immaterial spirit back to the usage of "ruach" (wind/breath) in the OT.
(2) All scholars trace immaterialism back to the heathen philosopher Plato around 500 B.C.
That's your proof.

God is a breath: and they that worship him must worship him in wind and in truth.

In wind and truth? in breath and truth? Makes 0 sense

God is a Wind?

How many languages have you studied? In trying to learn a different language, have you ever noticed that some expressions make NO SENSE to you? Imagine someone trying to learn English hearing words like this:
"My day went haywire". (Huh? Hay? Wire? Do you work on a farm?)
"And she winds up being a seamstress!" (Huh? Winding thread? Upwards? Instead of down?)

YOU think that wind is a poor word for a mind/soul. Let's clear up your confusion. What is wind? That term is used to describe a material substance NORMALLY invisible. Given the very limited ancient Hebrew vocabulary, it was the perfect term for a material mind/soul! (See Gen 2:7).

For proof that God is classified in Scripture as Living Wind, take a look at this post on another thread. (Same info as covered here on this thread but it gets right to the point).

 

[JAL]

The Hebrew word Ruach and Greek word Pneuma can be translated into Spirit, but its the context that matters...

Context! Exactly!
(1) The OT has 100 clear, undisputed cases of ruach as pneuma/wind.
(2) Heremenutics dictates to interpret the remaining passages in light of the 100 clear passages.
(3) The CONTEXT (the mention of wind/breath in the context) shows that God intended "Holy Breath/Wind" (I gave you a couple of examples already).

...for example Proverbs 17:22 -
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine:
but a broken spirit drieth the bones.

How can an immaterial spirit affect the health of your material body? That makes ZERO sense. You're reading the passage according to 2,000 years of Platonic indoctrination, instead of reading it logically.

The word for spirit there is the same word used in

Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Wrong again.
(1) How can an immaterial Spirit form and shape the earth?
(2) Ever been out on the ocean? Noticed that material winds hover over the waters? The divine Wind/Breath can do the same!

Mark 3:30
Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Why did they say that? Because they saw his material body acting weird! Again, I ask you, how does an immaterial mind move and contort the material body? Makes ZERO sense.

You can call him breathe or wind if you like it's not wrong, but those words can be translated Spirit and, in many cases, should be translated as Spirit.

No they can't. Matter is all we know for sure. Immaterialism is pure fantasy/fairytale concocted by Plato. It's not an ordinary claim but an extraordinary claim. Extraordinary claims call for extraordinary amounts of evidence - only there ISN'T any. The contextual and logical evidence points to physical translations ONLY.

Here's an example of an extraordinary claim: "Use the force Luke!"

 

[Perciville]

So lets break this down.. What your saying is Ruach / Pneuma is purely physical? Correct?
If that's true how does the Ruach / Pneuma live inside all believers at the same time?

Secondly, Ruach / Pneuma hovered on the waters God the Father formed Heaven and Earth.

Thirdly how do you know a Spirit cant be physical?

Why do you automatically assume I think the Holy Spirit it's immaterial?

What if it can materialise when it wants and what if it's immaterial when it wants.

I think the Holy Spirit can do so much more than we could imagine.

I think the major issue here is you think you know what everyone believes and you group everyone into one group and you deem them wrong.

 

[Perciville]

I've looked at all your post and to be honest I don't think I will converse with you anymore, all you do is fight with people and belittle them. This is not what Jesus would do or how he would act. You do not teach to edify but to be right.

You are a modern-day pharisee.

 

[JAL]

So lets break this down.. What your saying is Ruach / Pneuma is purely physical? Correct?

If that's true how does the Ruach / Pneuma live inside all believers at the same time?

The divine Word upholds the whole universe, by penetrating all matter, grasping all particles, exerting pressures on them by His own hand (gravity, magnetism, electricity, electromagnetism). This means His presence - one part of it - fills 100 billion galaxies! He's huge! Do you suppose God has enough matter to penetrate a few human bodies?

Secondly, Ruach / Pneuma hovered on the waters God the Father formed...Earth.

Correct. As several reputable scholars have noted, the original raw material of the earth was liquids called waters, which God proceeded to form and shape into a fully contoured earth.

Thirdly how do you know a Spirit cant be physical?

Immaterial Spirit is material? That is called a contradiction.

Why do you automatically assume I think the Holy Spirit it's immaterial?

Because you objected to Him being a physical wind. I assumed there was some logic to it.

What if it can materialise when it wants and what if it's immaterial when it wants.

So God is the immaterial material Being? That is a contradiction. It's also an extraordinary claim devoid of clear foundation. Use the force Luke!

I think the Holy Spirit can do so much more than we could imagine.

Can He make 2 + 2 = 5? No. There's plenty He CANNOT do. He cannot undermine the law of non-contradiction. And Holy 'Spirit' is not His name. It's Holy Wind/Breath.

I think the major issue here is you think you know what everyone believes and you group everyone into one group and you deem them wrong.

Pardon me for assuming you wouldn't contradict yourself with an "immaterial material God".

 

[Perciville]

Haha just because your mind can't comprehend something does not mean it can't happen.. Like how Jesus appeared before the disciples after his resurrection and then vanished. Material... Immaterial... If Jesus can do it I'm sure the Holy Spirit can too.

 

[JAL]

I've looked at all your post and to be honest I don't think I will converse with you anymore, all you do is fight with people and belittle them. This is not what Jesus would do or how he would act. You do not teach to edify but to be right.

You are a modern-day pharisee.

I give reasons for my position. Is that inappropriate on a debate forum? Where have I belittled someone? And if I have, it was probably because I felt exhausted from myself being repeatedly insulted. As happened on this thread.

 

[JAL]

Haha just because your mind can't comprehend something does not mean it can't happen.. Like how Jesus appeared before the disciples after his resurrection and then vanished. Material... Immaterial... If Jesus can do it I'm sure the Holy Spirit can too.

You think it's hard to comprehend that? All His miracles are easily explained by material dynamics.

 

[JAL]

Haha just because your mind can't comprehend something does not mean it can't happen.. Like how Jesus appeared before the disciples after his resurrection and then vanished. Material... Immaterial... If Jesus can do it I'm sure the Holy Spirit can too.

If you're going to claim it was NOT simple material dynamics, you're making an extraordinary claim, which calls for extraordinary amounts of evidence. Which you don't have.

Use the force Luke!

 

[JAL]

I've looked at all your post and to be honest I don't think I will converse with you anymore, all you do is fight with people and belittle them. This is not what Jesus would do or how he would act. You do not teach to edify but to be right.

You are a modern-day pharisee.

It's really amazing how many insults and belittling statements you managed to fit in one post. And you've barely participated on this thread! Now imagine how it feels on my end, when many other posters treat me exactly like you just did - and they do it for hundreds of posts! Would it really be any shock if I responded to them in kind every ONCE in a while?

I've looked at all your post

Is this an honest statement? You've really read ALL my posts? (I won't hold my breath hoping for a straight answer).

 

[Perciville]

So how do you claim he did it using this material dynamics?

 

[JAL]

So how do you claim he did it using this material dynamics?

Have you ever seen a magician? Doesn't he manipulate matter faster than the eye can see?
(1) Some insects can bat their wings 1,000 times per second!
(2) Today's computers can (literally) process millions of instructions per second!

If ordinary matter can move that fast, how rapidly do you suppose Yahweh can manipulate matter? Faster than eyes can detect?

And bear in mind, to keep something hidden from your eyes, all He has to do is block the reflective light from your eyes. You see things by virtue of reflective light.

 

[Perciville]

I read hundreds of your posts and yes to be honest you treat people horrid. If I have belittled you I am sorry but it was in response to you belittling me first. No excuse but you are super condescending so that's why you get it in response.

 

[JAL]

I read hundreds of your posts and yes to be honest you treat people horrid. If I have belittled you I am sorry but it was in response to you belittling me first. No excuse but you are super condescending so that's why you get it in response.

You haven't given me a link to a single post where I treated someone horribly. (But yes there were probably a few, for reasons stated).

And what did I say that belittled you?