God forbids using grace as an excuse for continued sin .. Romans 6:15

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi timewerx...

You can never had real peace with Satan, his children, and the world as a follower of Jesus.

FIRST --- ... I do not see how you can determine what I do or do not "have", Please! As YOU, know NOTHING of ...MY experience whatsoever.

As far as the "world" is concerned, YOU were once a member OF IT (as was I). Bringing the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom -- unto those in the WORLD -- Matt 28:19-20 -- Mark 16:15 -- is our duty. We cannot BRING said "GOSPEL", in other than a PEACEFUL manner.

So your assertion that I cannot be "at peace with the children of adversity" is empty of any semblance of reasonable measure.

WE are to be the examples of PEACE, of CHRIST, bearing the report of HIS Successful and VICTORIOUS Cross -- Col 1:20 -- and message of the GOSPEL of PEACE, ...unto that "world"... not the hardened, unreachable, inaccessable, JUDGMENTAl, RELGIONISTS which profess themselves falsely as are Scripturally indicated:

HERE ---> Luke 18:10-14 -- and,
HERE ---> John 8:3-11


SECOND --- "satan" (as I see it), is not what you percieve. "satan" as a "FALLEN ANGEL", is ONE of the primary fallacies taught by christianity unto the world. Which is proposed by them (to the world) as having REBELLED (unbiblical), and FALLEN from HEAVEN (unbiblical), and which is OMNIPRESENT (tempting everyone - again unbiblical) and which gains ultimately, a MASSIVE VICTORY over GRACE -- Rom 5:20 -- (to the tune of MOST of humanity - which is also, unbiblical)


There is no "being" called "satan" (as I have noted previously), with which I have "PEACE"...


"satan" is a principality which embodies the ADVERSARIAL nature of man... NOT an "angel" which "fell from Heaven", nor does the WORD teach this fallacy...

Though you will come in peace (physically) to them delivering the Gospel, Satan and his children will wage war at you. For you are actually waging war against Satan and the kingdom where he is king - our world, the things of this world, the works of man....

There is no offense intended here, but ...one of the FIRST lessons a preacher of the WORD must learn, is that the GOSPEL is NOT about YOU as a minister of it... it is about GOD and HIS WILL, and HIS AGENDA. So you must learn to cease making this about YOU, and begin making it about GOD.


No man CAN come to CHRIST, except GOD draw that man -- John 6:44 -- that an individual does not "adhere" to YOUR WITNESS as you bring the GOSPEL, does not at all mean he/she is (therefore) "AT WAR" with you! It simply means that YOU have not been chosen to be the one which GOD has (particularly) SENT to that individual that he/she might HEAR the GOSPEL.


I do not "wage" WAR with anyone. I bring the GOSPEL (as instructed by JESUS) unto them. If YHVH God has drawn them to the witness that I present, then they shall HEAR, that which I preach unto them using the WORD... If not, then it is not yet their time for the TESTIMONY of their Salvation to take place -- 1 Tim 2:6 -- that they do not HEAR, does not mean that they and I have engaged in a "WAR". It just means that GOD has chosen another of His Children, to generate their "spiritual" EARS...


That any given person does not hear YOU... does not mean that they shall not (eventually) hear SOMEONE ELSE.

We don't wage war vs man but the things in control of them, the things they are addicted to - accomplishments, titles, jobs, education, possessions, pleasures of life, vices, pride, power, strength, deceit of wealth, false doctrines of Satan..

I would remind you that the MANY of "christianity", (very surprisingly) shall find their "doctrines" and "doings", named as INIQUITY by CHRIST -- Matt 7:22-23


It is not my place to address another's shortcomings. That is the work of the HOLY SPIRIT. If some might have possessions, education, pleasure, accomplishments, titles, etc... does not equate the presence of these as ADDICTION. Your list (forgive me), as I see it is foolish and hypocritical... here's why:


1. Do you have a job, timewerx? Are you therefore ADDICTED to it?

2. Do you "own" ANYTHING? Are you therefore ADDICTED to that "possession"?

3. Do you have "wealth"? (if you have $1 in the bank you are "richer" then MOST of the people of the world) -- are you ADDICTED to that $1?

4. Are you at all "educated"? Are you ADDICTED to what you "know" due to that "education"? (including your "education" concerning the WORD)

5. Have you "accomplished" anything, timeworx? Are you ADDICTED to that accomplishment? (you obviously have "accomplished" the ability to READ, is "reading" therefore, your ADDICTION?

6. Do you have "PRIDE" in what you do and who you are, timeworx? For example, to the "TITLE" that names you a "christian", Are you ADDICTED to being a "christian", and to the TITLE with which you label yourself?

7. Does LIFE provide unto you "pleasure" in any way, timewerx? If so, are you ADDICTED to that "pleasure"?

8. Those who do not believe in CHRIST, have no "doctrines" of "satan". They are unconcerned with RELIGION, or SPIRITUAL pursuits. So your assertion that those in the WORLD are professing "satanic doctrines", is non-existent.

"satan" is as much (if not more) at work in christianity as it is at work in the world, ...as GOD calls BELIEVERS to "come out" of something they are IN -- Rev 18:4 -- Are you IN a church bro? Does it "teach doctrines"? A believer cannot come "OUT" of something he/she is not "IN" !!!!


Think about it...

So it's never real peace for it's a one-sided affair. Though you come in peace to man, they will wage war at you for you are waging war against the things they love - the cravings of the flesh.

I have been engaged in LIFE for 67 years... how long have you LIVED in the SCHOOL of LIFE, timewerx? That some "church" has told you that you are in a SPIRITUAL "war"... does not make it so. Where in the WORD, does it note we (which believe in CHRIST), ...are IN a SPIRITUAL, "WAR"?


I believe this "war" which you and most of christianity asserts, is a man-made/created philosophy. Prove this "WAR" exists, with the Scriptures! (if you are able )


We are ALL walking the pathway SET in place by YHVH GOD -- Prov 16:1, 9 -- Eph 2:10 -- Prov 21:1 -- Prov 20:24 -- Jer 10:23 -- Isaiah 46:10

...If you take the meat away from a wolf, they will kill you. A sheep won't, they won't mind...

Preaching the Gospel, the real one is like taking meat away from wolves to turn them into sheep! For only a new creation can enter the Kingdom of God. One bloody hell of a fight!

When will you employ the WORD (establishing ITS teachings) instead of your own words, timewerx?

If you abstain from contact with and the BEFRIENDING of, those who are in NEED of CHRIST, what good are you to the GOSPEL of GOD, friend?

In that context, yes, I agree with you. But you will never be real friends of the 'sick' until they get healed.

You are not to avoid the sick. You are to mingle with them, but eventually, they will start to hate you if the Gospel will not change them.

Are you really serious? I know many people that are NOT "christians"... matter of fact... many which I have known all my life, are not "christians". NONE of them "hate me". I bring the GOSPEL to any which I come in contact with... I do not FORCE them to swallow my offering. If they happen to be a FRIEND, ...I do NOT end our friendship due to them not recieving my witness of GOD.

I have a LIFE-LONG FRIEND (he is 65, I am 67 - friends since childhood 8 & 10 yrs old, respectively) which is suffering from PANCREATIC cancer... He is not a BELIEVER in the Lord, ...however, I have prayed over him. My prayer on his behalf was not made with a motive of PERSUADING God to remove his cancer. (I've been fighting cancer for 4 yrs myself)...

My prayer was asking the MERCY of YHVH to be upon my friend, according to HIM and HIS WILL for my friend (as the MERCY of YHVH endures FOREVER -- Psalm 136). NOT because I sought to change the pathway that YHVH God has Divinely set before him -- Isaiah 46:10

...we are not to waste our time preaching the gospel over and over to people who refuses to change everytime... For others will receive the Good News willingly. Jesus was not successful at winning all his relatives while he is alive, nor did he persistently try to win them into the Gospel for they refuse to have faith. Jesus made good use of his time and effort so kept wandering about to find people who will accept the Truth.

Hmmm... Where is this stated in the WORD, timewerx?


I will pause here, and address the rest of your response, later.


PEACE... ...willieH

 

[timewerx]

1. Do you have a job, timewerx? Are you therefore ADDICTED to it?

Apparently, you did not read the rest of my response to your post. It's the last several paragraphs at the bottom

read post #41 again

2. Do you "own" ANYTHING? Are you therefore ADDICTED to that "possession"?

read post #41 again

I sold my car, left all of my furniture for the hospice. The only things I have left are my clothes, this computer, mobile phone. I'm living with my parents atm before I leave for the 'battlefield' which I affectionately like to call the 'mission field' because I'm literally headed to a war-torn place

3. Do you have "wealth"? (if you have $1 in the bank you are "richer" then MOST of the people of the world) -- are you ADDICTED to that $1?

Way more than that. But I'm not touching it until I land in the 'battlefield'

4. Are you at all "educated"? Are you ADDICTED to what you "know" due to that "education"? (including your "education" concerning the WORD)

I never tell anyone my worldly knowledge.

5. Have you "accomplished" anything, timeworx? Are you ADDICTED to that accomplishment? (you obviously have "accomplished" the ability to READ, is "reading" therefore, your ADDICTION?

I left my scientific research to focus on God.

6. Do you have "PRIDE" in what you do and who you are, timeworx? For example, to the "TITLE" that names you a "christian", Are you ADDICTED to being a "christian", and to the TITLE with which you label yourself?

I was once respected but now the laughing stock of my relatives and friends for leaving my research, leaving my job and telling them these things will kill them!

I don't care a bit for Jesus says, the flesh counts for nothing! In fact I'm happy! These persecutions show the world has hated me which confirms everything that Jesus said!

7. Does LIFE provide unto you "pleasure" in any way, timewerx? If so, are you ADDICTED to that "pleasure"?

After I've left/sold most my possessions. Pledged not to do any recreation or hobbies anymore. Living a jobless and poor life at the moment...

I'm afraid I'll have to answer yes. That's why I'm looking forward to God's assignment to the 'battlefield' at the protest of my friends and relatives due to the likelihood I'll get kidnapped/enslaved or killed or whatever..

8. Those who do not believe in CHRIST, have no "doctrines" of "satan". They are unconcerned with RELIGION, or SPIRITUAL pursuits. So your assertion that those in the WORLD are professing "satanic doctrines", is non-existent.

"satan" is as much (if not more) at work in christianity as it is at work in the world, ...as GOD calls BELIEVERS to "come out" of something they are IN -- Rev 18:4 -- Are you IN a church bro? Does it "teach doctrines"? A believer cannot come "OUT" of something he/she is not "IN" !!!!

Think about it...

Let me ask you a question as a response.

Do you think it's just coincidence that the mass media internet, TV, radio, news keep telling things that are abominations to God look, sound, and feel great?

Sexual immorality(fornication), Idolatry (actors/actresses, sports stars, worship of things like own life, houses, cars, insurance, family, recreation, hobbies), selfishness (being insensitive to the desperate needs of others in different countries), pursuit of wealth, luxury, and comfort, violence/vengeance/retaliation, conformity to trends(to the world), being accepted, pleasing, and respectable to the world.

Why does the mass media keep peddling ALL these things? Why does many Christian churches peddle some of those things too??

All these things oppose God. They are abominations to God. Why peddle these abominations to the People/Sons and Daughters of God. There's probably an enemy out there, don't you think?

Why are we warned many times about the coming false gospel of the Antichrist? Why is that only FEW will find the truth? Because it's an inconvenient truth!

It's the inconvenient truth that will lend yourselves to be hated, persecuted, and even killed by the world.

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi timewerx...


As I told you, I am battling cancer, and cannot sustain long periods in front of the computer...


So if you answer me immediately, when I have not finished the first response, I may have to ignore any posts you might make to the first segment... Hope you understand.

But never stop praying for all to accept the truth.

"A prophet has no honor in his home(hometown)" You'll have much better success elsewhere. Move out people!

"Move out people"? Kiddeth thou, me?


How long have you witnessed as a believer, timewerx? It seems to me you take the WORD in a LITERAL (non-spiritual) sense. What is stated in this quotation (which actually states: "A prophet is not without honor, save in his own country, and IN HIS OWN HOUSE"), does not mean you must go to "another TOWN" to preach the GOSPEL, for you shall have "better success" there. ...it means that with those whom you KNOW and KNOW you, you shall find DEAF ears.


Mark put it this way -- Mark 6:4 -- but JESUS said unto them - "A prophet in not without honor, but in his own country, and among his OWN KIN, and in his OWN HOUSE"..


You can walk over 1 city block in ANY DIRECTION from where you live, and NO ONE will "KNOW" YOU! Have you never partaken in any public or "door to door" witnessing?


The results of our preachings are NOT "our successes" to begin with. And they are NOT to be considered OUR WORK nor OUR "accomplishments or successes". They are to be considered GOD's WORK (within us), using US as His instruments... I am a guitarist of over 50 years, and NO guitar I have ever owned, ever played even ONE NOTE - think about it. WE (and everyone else) are HIS WORKMANSHIP -- Eph 2:20 -- Rom 9:21

In one dramatic personal example. We once had a guy in a church, a Christian church. Everyone would avoid this guy for he was an adulterer..

They even warned me from getting to close to him. But I befriended him anyways, at the cost of others staying away from me too!

I was with him when he renounced his sin of adultery!

Sadly in the end, he got to hate me. Due to my recent revival of the Spirit, I have finally turned all my attention away from the things of this world.

I told him, things like money, financial security, jobs, titles, properties, creating a family don't matter to me anymore, I will not run after those anymore. Though he is a Christian too, he thought that I was really stupid and a loser. He doesn't want to be acquainted with me anymore, even if I still wanted to. It's a sad things not everybody, in fact, most will not accept the true Gospel.

It appears to me that you actually know little of the "true GOSPEL", as no hint of it has been exampled in your responses. NOT ONCE, in this or the other half of this post, did you refer to the WORD of GOD... except in a scattered paraphrase (your words) of -- Mark 6:4 -- Luke 4:24 -- Matt 13:57


You are under the assumption that just because you are attempting to separate yourself from many of the NEEDFUL things (concerning survival) upon this earth (money, possessions, jobs, etc.), that somehow that translates to you "knowing" the "true GOSPEL"


In a nutshell (briefly WITH THE WORD), please tell us the "true GOSPEL"...

Without faith it is impossible to please God. Trusting on your job, your education, your possessions, titles, is a very poor, even total lack of faith even if you profess to be a Christian.

FIRST -- I shall agree that we must not TRUST in our jobs, education and possession, etc... but THAT is not what you first proposed. You propose we abandon those things, instead of TRUSTING in GOD to guide us within our involvements with them.


SECOND -- No man can be "with FAITH", until CHRIST AUTHORS (generates His) FAITH in that one, and no FAITH except that which is FINISHED (completed) by HIM, is worthy -- Heb 12:2


THIRD -- it is not up to you to JUDGE another's FAITH -- Matt 7:1 -- that is the business of GOD. For ALL JUDGMENT has been committed unto CHRIST -- John 5:22 -- whenever you "JUDGE" another, you USURP that which is given unto CHRIST only.

Love by throwing them the Bread of Life, not the Bread of the Flesh.

To most, throwing them the Bread of Life will cause them to hate you.

You do not "choose"... CHRIST does the "choosing" -- John 15:16 -- only under His direction, do we walk forward -- Prov 16:1 -- Jer 10:23 -- Eph 2:10 -- so we must not regard to whom we preach, by JUDGING them or their activities... rather, just speak in submission to GOD, and then IN HUMILITY, ...leave your words before the one to whom you witness, and as well, before CHRIST to decide He shall either use them or not... which is what I do herein, concerning you.

Although Jesus did give physical bread to his followers to satisfy their basic need - food. Then when he gave them the Bread of Life, most left and no longer followed him.

ALL men will leave their FIRST LOVE... that does not mean that this "departure" is permanent! -- Rev 2:4 -- Matt 24:12 -- Believers which the HOLY SPIRIT has enabled to call JESUS - "Lord" -- 1 Cor 12:3 -- shall find HIS DISDAIN for that which THEY considered "good works" -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 24:5

Do not judge... For we judge (mostly) according to the flesh. We use the criteria of the flesh. Most, even Christians included are guilty of this trespass. We judge according to appearance, according to smell(hygiene), the way we speak, how well your hair is brushed, what car you drive, which school you went, what your job, your title, your income...

What is this? Which do you really believe, timewerx? To JUDGE - as with your "adulterous" buddy), or "your own country", ...or to NOT JUDGE?

Righteous judgment (judging in the spirit) is different.

You seem to be seeking a "right" to JUDGE other sinners, being a SINNER yourself! This is unwise... and certainly unfruitful... -- Psalm 143:2


Whether or not you accept it, you DO have a problem... for our Father, YHVH GOD said this TWICE in His WORD -- There is NONE RIGHTEOUS, ...no, ...not, ...ONE (which "NONE" includes, even one called, ..."timewerx") -- Psalm 14:1-3 -- Rom 3:10-12


Only CHRIST can "JUDGE" RIGHTEOUSLY... for ...ALL JUDGMENT -- John 5:22 -- is given unto HIM, ...not to YOU (a forgiven sinner, but a sinner nevertheless), ...and not to ME (a forgiven sinner, but a sinner nevertheless).


Men, are quick (once forgiven), to point out the sin of OTHERS, forgetting "where they came from". A wise man WILL not ESTEEM himself ABOVE that which he SHOULD -- 2 Cor 10:12 -- Phil 2:3 -- remaining IN HUMILITY, and understanding that SIN is not JUDGED by anyone but CHRIST -- who does not change, and who chose NOT to JUDGE, when the opportunity arose for Him to do so --- John 8:10-11

It doesn't put anything temporal into account. ZERO! You can be the ugliest person, the stinkiest, the worst, ragged clothing, the poorest, the least IQ, it doesn't matter a bit!!

To this I say, ...


and I shall pause, and finish later...


PEACE... ...willieH

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi timewerx...


Here is the rest of it...

Only the things you do for God matters.. You can be the poorest and still out-give the richest! You can be the poorest and have a much greater investment in the Kingdom than the richest!!

This is not a competition bro! Do not seek to "out-give" your brother... seek to GIVE all that you have, and pray your brother does the same! If you DO, and he DOES NOT... then that is course which GOD laid before you both -- Prov 21:1 -- Jer 10:23 -- Prov 16:9


This realm is not about some mythical "haywire" war that happened in Heaven (that an supposed "angel" supposedly named "satan" rebelled against GOD and fought a WAR in the HOLY realm of HEAVEN -- which could not be more UNBIBLICAL than it is)...


It is about the SHARING of YHVH God's DIVINE (LIVING) KNOWLEDGE (in which you and I and every human being, as His Children, participate) of GOOD and EVIL!

If you can judge in the spirit then do!

NO you should NOT!


Examine yourSELF only... do not pretend to be the JUDGE of your BROTHER, for it is your duty to LOVE him, as did CHRIST -- 1 John 4:20
-- NOT to JUDGE him -- Matt 7:1


willieH said:

My copy of the WORD says: "go ye into ALL NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them whatsoever I have commanded you" -- Matt 28:19 -- Do you think this shall be accomplished by shouting your REBUKE unto them? Is that how the one that witnessed CHRIST unto you "introduced you to the Lord"?

Then timewerx said:

That verse is really asking for trouble
How else Jesus were able to drive away many disciples and have only few left to follow him?

How else did Jesus made a rich man go home very sad?

How else did Jesus got so many angry to eventually crucify him?

How else did prophet John got himself martyred as well? This guy called unbelievers serpents and subject to God's wrath.

Really insane!

Totally agreeable We might have just ended in the wrong context.

JESUS was/IS ...theWORD of YHVH God, ...YOU (as well as me), are not. If you speak His WORD to a brother, then the WORD shall do the "WORK" of JUDGMENT (which isGIVEN unto the WORD -- John 5:22), ...not to YOU (and not to me).

However. Still don't waste time on people that won't accept the true Gospel after doing your best. Move on to others but don't stop praying for those who won't accept, let God deal with them thereon

Close... but somewhat amiss...
We are NEVER "wasting time", when we are about the witness of the GLORY of the GOSPEL to others. That is our DUTY -- Mark 16:15 -- the results of our efforts are left to GOD to bring forth FRUIT from those efforts... not to "carve another notch upon our own GLORY sheet"!


Are you a (fairly) new believer, timewerx? You seem a bit inexperienced.
We are to be leaving ALL MEN ..."to GOD to deal with". We are to SUBMIT ourselves to Him, to use as HE chooses -- Gal 2:20 -- not to seek others, to JUDGE them, and to SHUN them, should they not give EAR to US... that is making it about SELF, instead of making it about GOD.

If the devil is a false entity. You will still be at war - at war against the flesh.

Are you reading what I say to you? I am making it obvious that I READ what you say... as I reply to EACH word you say. I think its time you begin to involve yourself in this discussion with me!


Here is what I said:

Please, if you would, ...found this "WAR directive" for me, in the WORD.

If I am at "WAR", it is with that which MAKES FALLACY OF (is adversary=satan), and TO, the TRUTH.

1. You did not FOUND this "WAR" (W/"satan")... now did you?

2. I clearly stated that --- "if I am at war, it is with that which makes FALLACY (is adversary=satan) and TO, the TRUTH" -- What do you fail to understand about my statement, timewerx? And where did you reply to it?

We've been instructed to change wolves into sheeps. We are essentially 'robbing' or teaching the wolf that meat is bad for you. They will hate you for that! They will wage war with you!

There are also sheeps among wolves (the lost sheep of the House of Israel). They will readily accept the Gospel. The true Gospel. They desperately need to hear the true Gospel of the Bread of Life, not the Gospel of meat for it's not meat that they really want.

Once again, you did not address my words... You have not even stated what (you think) the "true GOSPEL" actually, ...IS (I have, btw)...

No, no, no. I have left my job, sold/left my possessions except this computer I use. I have little left in the bank just enough to meet my basic needs for couple of months.

I got my last job, my titles, and my possessions over the will of my flesh so I left them. I was a Christian already back then and thought I was doing God's will when it's my heart's will, the deceptiveness of the human heart.... They used to be my idols (without knowing due to the great deception of the enemy) so I have to abandon them.

When my wife and I got married 36 years ago... we, in our zeal for GOD, did many such things as you do now. I do not know your age, but it appears you are quite young. And you also appear "gung-ho" in your desire to serve GOD... This is good, but please do not overlook many of the things which are addressed in Scripture. A "workman" is worthy of his hire... GOD does not condemn JOBS... if you "worshipped" your job, then it is good to change JOBS, not forsake WORKING.


If you have children or a spouse, it is particularly IRRESPONSIBLE to them and your STEWARDSHIP concerning them, to abandon the idea of making a living.


The Apostle Paul was a TENTMAKER. He ministered, as he WORKED, after he WORKED and before he WORKED. JESUS was a CARPENTER. It does not say that He WORKED while in His last days, but I am very sure that He did.


The Apostles, most of which were FISHERMEN, continued to do so. They did not (as do preachers of today), expect to be SUPPORTED by their ministry. Quite the opposite was true. They ministered THEIR SUPPORT to said ministry.

I'd love to start anew with God. Those former things amount to absolutely nothing! What the world calls stupid, God calls faith.

If God gives me a job. I'll no longer use the money for personal pleasure, gadgets/possessions, leisure, recreation, hobby, etc... Only those DESPERATELY NEEDED for the work of God - a small rusty old car - the bare basic for personal/supplies transport, computer, few pairs of clothing, rent a small room. the rest goes to God's work.

What you esteem to be your vision of life concerning these things in proximity to YOURSELF is fine. Wear holey jeans and shoes if you must (I dont put that down)... drive a beat up car, if that helps you in your walk. but do not condemn those who WORK HARD and even though they may be successful and earn much... do not let those "earnings" POSSESS them.
I am a LIFELONG musician (began @ 5yrs old - now 67). Aside from those who become STARS in my profession, the majority of us who play music, earn paltry wages... and do not drive BMW's! But that's OK with me...


I love what I do and LOVE God for what I do, for I am blessed with the gift of MUSIC... and every note that I play and sing, whether the subject matter is the GOSPEL or not, is played with thanksgiving unto YHVH God, and I salute His majesty with every breath. I am an author (written 3 novels), composer/songwriter as well as recording artist. I write both GOSPEL and secular music. ALL my efforts are dedicated to Him.


I have a few friends which own a COIN shop here in Spokane... they are MILLIONAIRES! If my wife and I stood next to them before you, ...you could not tell them, from us. They are the most GENEROUS people I have ever known. They help ALL their friends, in many different ways. RICHES have not corrupted them and more than RICHES corrupted JOB.
If RICHES are a corruption factor to you. Then it is best that you not be monetarily RICH.

The few more souls that could be found is worth infinitely more than that time and money I spent for temporal things.

I'd rather live a hell, in poverty and get few souls than get things for my self believing it's God's Will and miss a few souls.

You do not "get souls" bro. ALL men belong to YHVH God... Every LIFE that has been generated here, was LIT by our Lord JESUS CHRIST -- John 1:9 -- and are BY Him, and FOR Him -- Col 16:1


I must rest... I will address any other replies later... and wish you HIS PEACE... and guidance as you RENEW your committment to Him!



PEACE... ...willieH

 

[Inhiskingdom]

God's Truth is so simple, sin against folks is not loving folks but hurting them ... so one does not follow Jesus until one stops sinning and chooses Love instead...

yet we have a worldwide fake religion that keeps folks sinning week in, week out, even after water baptism when they commit to ceasing from all sin...

God forbids using grace as an excuse for continued sin ..

Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

... God forbids ...

The question is, to sin or not to sin? Is a sin the thing that so easily besets ME, or the thing that so easily besets YOU? which ever it is, let us lay it aside and run with patience the race that is set before us (Heb.12:1).

Paul said,"let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling-block, or an occasion to fall in his brothers way" (Rom.14:13).

Most people do not understand the PRINCIPLE of sin, and can not distinguish between that which is a sin, from that which is not a sin. If you will study the Bible, you will see that it teaches us the PRINCIPLE of sin. But it seems that people would rather CREATE there OWN IDEAS of what sin is, forgetting the "PRINCIPLES" of Christ, and the FOUNDATION which was laid for us to build upon.

Of course, we have today, many more things which we consider sin, then what; the Apostles had to consider in their day. The difference being the Apostles based THEIR BELIEF on the PRINCIPLES of the DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, and today it is based on the PRINCIPLES of the DOCTRINES OF MAN. If the "Doctrine of Man" tells us that a CERTAIN THING is a sin, then it will be believed without biblical proof. They call this "BLIND FAITH", but Jesus said," they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch" (Matt. 15:14). It seems that these "leaders" can tell us what sin is, but cannot tell us what makes it a sin.

I often ask, why are some things considered sin, and it's equivalent is not considered sin? An example of this is "coffee". Some believe that drinking "coffee" is NOT a sin, but the drinking of wine is a sin. Both can be habit forming and can be damaging to our health (if abused). So, which IS a sin, and which is not? Can we find the answer in the bible?

The PRINCIPLE is this; when we do wrong, or commit, what WE consider sin, We are convicted by OUR OWN conscience, not someone else's (Jn.8:9). We must judge ourselves by what WE believe is sin. Paul said, "....but to him that esteemeth anything to be unclean (sin), to HIM it is unclean" (Rom.14:14). We know that "coffee" in itself is not sin, but to him that considers (esteemeth) it sin, then to HIM it is sin, and we that are of FULL AGE, for strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age (Heb5:14), can not offend our brother which is weak (on milk), for he is still CARNAL (minded) (1Cor.3:1-3), and "is unskillful in the WORD of RIGHTEOUSNESS, for he is a BABE" (Heb5:13; 1Pet2:2). And his conscience, being weak, is defiled by HIS "condemnation" (self- pronouncement of his own guilt) (1Cor.8:7).

In other words, whether we eat, drink, or do ANYTHING, we can not offend our brother. It is not a sin to drink "coffee", but it is a sin to offend our brother by drinking "coffee". It is not the drinking of the "coffee", but it is the OFFENCE of drinking the "coffee", which is the sin. "Unto the pure, all things are pure; but unto them that are defiled (condemned) and un-believing is NOTHING pure: but even their mind and conscience is defiled' (by condemning themselves in that which they allow) (Tit.1:15). Them that are condemned walk after the flesh (mind carnal things), not after the Spirit, for there is no condemnation in them which are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1).

Jesus said, "verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth (understand) my WORD, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting Life, and shalt not come into condemnation; but IS passed from (spiritual) death unto (spiritual) life" (Jn 5:24). "He that believeth on him, is not condemned (in that which he alloweth); but he that believeth not, is condemned already, because he hath not believed in name of the only Begotten Son of God (Jn.3:18).

Paul is saying, that if you believe (have faith), and are not condemned in what you eat, drink, OR ANYTHING that you "allow" in your life, then you have a clear conscience toward God. "For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil (sin) for that man who eateth with OFFENCE" but if you ARE condemned (doubtful), then you are damned if you eat, drink, OR ANYTHING that you BELIEVE is sin, because it is not of faith: "for whatsoever is not of faith is sin" (Rom.14:20-23).

If we are not condemned in that which we allow, then we have the assurance that we are the Children of God. For John said, "beloved, if our heart (conscience) condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. And he that keepeth his Commandments, dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us" (1Jn.3:21,24). Them that hear the Word of God is "convicted (condemned) by their OWN conscience" (Jn.8:7,9).

Of course, this consciousness can be "SEARED WITH A HOT IRON" (1Tim.4:2) past feeling (Eph.4:19) so that the Word of God will have no effect on WHAT YOU BELIEVE in your own conscience. So we should always have a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men (Acts24:16). "But when ye sin (offend) so against the brethren (in Christ), and wound their WEAK conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, least I make my brother to offend"(1Cor. 8:12,13). Of course, Paul is using this as an example. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT THE OBJECT OF OFFENCE IS. If your brother in Christ believes within himself that this is sin, then you must not offend his conscience, whether it be eating flesh, drinking wine, or ANYTHING THAT OFFENDS HIM. Paul tells us to "walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time" (Col.4:5).

Man has CREATED in his own mind, so many "fables" (doctrines of man) of what sin is, that they have forgotten the TRUE nature and characteristics of sin. Paul said, "now the works (fruit) of the flesh are manifest, which are these, adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelling, AND SUCH LIKE: (Gal.5:19-21). You will notice that THESE THINGS is that which proceeds OUT from the heart of man, NOT IN. Them that do THESE THINGS can not inherit the Kingdom of God. "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh (carnal things) with the affections and lust's" (the things that come OUT of man) (Gal. 5:24,25).

If we are to live in the Spirit, then let us also obey the Law of the Spirit, for ".. .the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW"(Gal. 5:22,23), for these things proceed FROM the heart of man. IN THIS YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPLE OF SIN. Jesus said, "Oh generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For OUT OF the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. A good man, OUT OF the good treasure, of the heart, BRINGETH FORTH good things (fruit of the Spirit): and an evil man, OUT OF the evil treasure, BRINGETH FORTH evil things" (works of the flesh).

On Judgement Day, man will be judged for, NOT WHAT GOES INTO MAN, BUT WHAT COMES OUT OF MAN (Matt.12:34-36). There is an old saying, "If the WORD OF GOD said it , then I will believe it". But yet, the scriptures tells us of many things that the people do not believe, For the DARKNESS has blinded their eyes, and they will believe the WORD OF MAN before they believe the WORD OF GOD. And the WORD OF GOD says this; "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded (fully assured) in his own mind. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink...." (or in anything) (Rom.14:5;Col.2:16).

Jesus said, "HEAR AND UNDERSTAND: NOT THAT WHICH GOETH INTO THE MOUTH DEFILETH A MAN: BUT THAT WHICH COMETH OUT OF THE MOUTH, THIS DEFILETH A MAN (Matt.15:10,11). Are ye also yet without understanding? Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? But these things which proceed OUT OF THE MOUTH come forth from the heart; AND THEY DEFILE THE MAN. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT DEFILE A MAN: but to eat with unwashen hands (natural things) defileth not a man" (Matt.15:16-20). "There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him, can defile him: but the things that come out of him, those are they that defile the man Do ye not perceive, that WHATSOEVER THING from without entereth into the man, IT CAN NOT DEFILE HIM: ... .that which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. All these evil things come from within, and defile the man" (Mk.7:15,18,20,23).

The Kingdom of God is not meat and drink (natural things), but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost (Spiritual things) (Rom14:17). We are to live in the Spirit, talk in the Spirit, and have our being in the Spirit. If this be so, then we mind the things of the Spirit, not the things of the natural. In the Spirit, we do everything for the Glory of God, for we can not be justified in the flesh. So, whether we eat, or drink, or WHATSOEVER we do (1Cor. 10:31), we will have confidence toward God.

Paul tried to explain this in a number of ways. He said that "all things are lawful unto me (for there is no condemnation in them that are in Christ Jesus), but all things are not expedient (suitable for accomplishing a desired result: wise): all things are lawful for me, but I WILL NOT BE BROUGHT UNDER THE POWER OF ANY" (1Cor. 6:12). In other words, ALL THINGS, whether it be eating, drinking, or ANYTHING that he does in the natural, he will not be brought under the possession of control, authority, or anything that would influence him to the "POINT" of interfering with the "WORK" which was set before him. But he makes it clear, that "meat commendeth us not to God: for neither if we eat, ARE WE THE BETTER; neither if we eat not, ARE WE THE WORSE". But he warns us ".... .take heed least by any means this liberty of yours become a stumbling-block to them that are weak" (them that are on "milk", and do not understand) (1Cor.8:8,9).

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid: How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein" (Rom.6:1,2)? If you are a Child of God, you will not sin. We must allow the Spirit of God to lead and guide us in the ways of righteousness. "Whosoever is born of God doeth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him; AND HE CAN NOT SIN, because he is born of God" (1Jn. 3:9; 5:18; cf. 1Pet.1:23; 1Jn.3:4-10). Our conscience will keep us from sin, if we will but hear what the Spirit saith unto the Church. Although we are NOT condemned within ourselves, we must be sure not to offend our brother. For in doing so, we condemn him, and cause him to stumble, sinning against Christ.

"For if we sin willfully after that we have received the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"(Heb.10:26). "For if after they have escaped the pollution's of the world through the Knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, AND OVERCOME, the latter end is worse with them then the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, then, after they have known it, to turn from the Holy Commandment delivered unto them" (2Pet.2:20,21). "THEREFORE TO HIM THAT KNOWETH TO DO GOOD, AND DOETH IT NOT, TO HIM IT IS SIN" (Ja. 4:17).

 

[timewerx]

FIRST -- I shall agree that we must not TRUST in our jobs, education and possession, etc... but THAT is not what you first proposed. You propose we abandon those things, instead of TRUSTING in GOD to guide us within our involvements with them.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say all.

I really doubt Jesus and his disciples walked around naked. The possessions you keep are for doing the Will of the Father, His Will, not ours, finding the lost sheep of the House of Israel in the ends of the Earth. The bare necessities - no Ferraris nor BMWs when a smally, rusty, old Fiat can do it!

I do not wish to make it sound like a rule or a law. The sheep doesn't eat meat because someone told them meat is bad... ...A sheep will not eat meat because it's his/her nature.

A new creation in God is like a wolf who used to run after flesh transformed into sheep, despising meat, and only hungering for the bread of life.

If they have to starve to death for God, they will. There are very very few such stories, sadly..

Jesus annoyed the Pharisees for the Pharisees loved money and Jesus told to hate money because if you love money, you hate God. This is probably one thing that helped fuel the anger of Pharisees to crucify Jesus.

If RICHES are a corruption factor to you. Then it is best that you not be monetarily RICH.

Who do you think is in a better situation?

The one who chosed to have much because he/she believes that riches will not corrupt them or...

The one who chosed to be poor because he/she believes that riches will corrupt them?

Are you a (fairly) new believer, timewerx? You seem a bit inexperienced.
We are to be leaving ALL MEN ..."to GOD to deal with". We are to SUBMIT ourselves to Him, to use as HE chooses -- Gal 2:20 -- not to seek others, to JUDGE them, and to SHUN them, should they not give EAR to US... that is making it about SELF, instead of making it about GOD.

Yes I am! I've only started to follow Jesus since 3 months ago.

Before that, I was Pentecostal/Evangelical Christian for 20 years! Been regular attendee to many Christian Churches around the world and mingled with different Christian families, different ethnicity, because my previous job demanded overseas travel.

If I were to apply my Christian mentality 8 years ago, I might have rebuked my present self!

I must rest... I will address any other replies later... and wish you HIS PEACE... and guidance as you RENEW your committment to Him!

PEACE... ...willieH

If you really mean that, then peace to you too!

I have renewed my commitment to Him. 20 years as Pentecostal/Evangelical, and here's your reborn brother, finally!

The transition has been rough, my friends, relatives, parents, thought I have lost my mind. I have lost most my former Christian friends.

We are really really few in this faith for we are waging war against the flesh, taking the meat off the wolf's mouth. It's a very very tough battle for we are exposing the ugliness of the things valuable to the flesh. The food of the flesh. The very survival of the flesh...

Once the Antichrist is here, pretending to be Christ himself to be the teeth of those who ate of the flesh.. That will be the end of us. We will surely be killed for trying to take the meat off of their mouths!

 

[WillieH]

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say all.

I really doubt Jesus and his disciples walked around naked. The possessions you keep are for doing the Will of the Father, His Will, not ours, finding the lost sheep of the House of Israel in the ends of the Earth. The bare necessities - no Ferraris nor BMWs when a smally, rusty, old Fiat can do it!

I do not wish to make it sound like a rule or a law. The sheep doesn't eat meat because someone told them meat is bad... ...A sheep will not eat meat because it's his/her nature.

A new creation in God is like a wolf who used to run after flesh transformed into sheep, despising meat, and only hungering for the bread of life.

If they have to starve to death for God, they will. There are very very few such stories, sadly..

Jesus annoyed the Pharisees for the Pharisees loved money and Jesus told to hate money because if you love money, you hate God. This is probably one thing that helped fuel the anger of Pharisees to crucify Jesus.

FIRST --- You need to found your beliefs in Scripture, before you bellow them to another, bro. ...Where did JESUS tell anyone to HATE MONEY? JESUS said no such thing... those are YOUR WORDS, not His!


He DID SAY that man cannot SERVE MONEY (of the "unrighteous" brand) and SERVE GOD, simultaneously -- Luke 16:9-13 -- Matt 6:24 -- He did NOT SAY that we should "HATE MONEY"... those are YOUR WORDS, not His. He instructed us not to SERVE or LOVE, "money"...


SECOND --- JESUS "annoyed" the Pharisees because He taught with the SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY they lacked... "Money" had little (or nothing) to do with it.


THIRD --- There are no "probably's" concerning the motive of the Pharisees to KILL CHRIST... Actually, the WORD shows us exactly why they wanted to KILL Him, ...JESUS called Himself the SON of GOD (thereby noting Himself to be a "god" -- which is true of ALL men, btw)... we are "gods" because YHVH has SAID we are:


John 10:34 -- is quotation of -- Psalm 82:6 -- the Pharisees percieved CHRIST's claim to be BLASPHEMY.


If I said to you that I am a "god" (which I am - because YHVH has said I am), do you find those words "blaspheming"? If you do, then you are of the mindset of the Pharisees.

It cracks me up that so many "christians" can accept that ALL men are SINNERS because God says in His WORD, that they are sinners... but when it comes to God saying in His WORD that men are "gods", the religious hearts immediately set themselves against the man that agrees with what GOD SAYS... that men are "gods"!

Who do you think is in a better situation?

The one who chosed to have much because he/she believes that riches will not corrupt them or...

The one who chosed to be poor because he/she believes that riches will corrupt them?

If you "choose" to be POOR, you can still "choose" to SIN. Being POOR does not mean you have removed the possibility of SIN occuring in your life. Oftentimes POVERTY moves men to STEAL, KILL, DISHONORING their PARENTs (in their desparations), COVETING, etc...


Money and possessions, when esteemed correctly (for the temporal things they are), have no bearing on men. The POOR sin every bit as much, if not more than do the RICH.


Though I believe that it is true that, temporal "riches" (such as money), are worldly distractions which CAN further spiritually weaken an already NATURAL and spiritually weak heart (the HEART is by nature WICKED -- Jer 17:9).


ALL HEARTS of (ALL) men in their UNCONVERTED nature, are WICKED above ALL THINGS (including money) -- Jer 17:9 -- we must seek GOD that HE convert our hearts, no matter WHAT our "financial" condition might be.

Yes I am! I've only started to follow Jesus since 3 months ago.

Before that, I was Pentecostal/Evangelical Christian for 20 years! Been regular attendee to many Christian Churches around the world and mingled with different Christian families, different ethnicity, because my previous job demanded overseas travel.

If I were to apply my Christian mentality 8 years ago, I might have rebuked my present self!

Many will swing from one extreme to the other. I advise you to STUDY the WORD for yourself (let all previously held "theological" perceptions -- go!).


And as you prayerfully STUDY, you will find (and as GOD LEADS), gradual revelation of the principles in the WORD, which HE shall reveal to you, not the HEARSAY brought to your ears by "this" church or "that" pastor...


Many believe that they have changed, or had an "epiphany", but in the end, are only dragging many of their previous beliefs into their (allegedly) "new" experience.


If you cannot find a Scripture to stand upon concerning ANY given "belief" you might hold... then said "belief" is standing upon the SAND of HEARSAY.


If you really wish to have a NEW experience in CHRIST, then make sure what you "believe" is standing upon verses which actually SAY what you "believe" -- case in point is that JESUS never SAID to "HATE MONEY"... He warned against MONEY potentially being a greater persuasion in the Heart, than is GOD. And that MONEY would (when it came down to it - in many cases), find your ALLIGIANCE before GOD.

If you really mean that, then peace to you too!

I do not wish idly, the PEACE of God to anyone. I wish it to ALL, in complete and honorable sincerity.

I have renewed my commitment to Him. 20 years as Pentecostal/Evangelical, and here's your reborn brother, finally!

The transition has been rough, my friends, relatives, parents, thought I have lost my mind. I have lost most my former Christian friends.

We are really really few in this faith for we are waging war against the flesh, taking the meat off the wolf's mouth. It's a very very tough battle for we are exposing the ugliness of the things valuable to the flesh. The food of the flesh. The very survival of the flesh...

Again... make sure that your FAITH is actually founded upon things which GOD states in His WORD. If you cannot establish SCRIPTURAL foundation for any "belief", ...then it is of the FALLACY and INIQUITY which MANY shall face in the end -- Matt 7:22-23 -- do NOT be numbered amongst them!

Once the Antichrist is here, pretending to be Christ himself to be the teeth of those who ate of the flesh..

This is a perfect example of what I just said...


"antichrist" is not a person. Never was, never will be. "antichrist" is, was and always will be, ...ANY principle -- which stands in OPPOSITION to CHRIST.


1 John 2:18 -- little children, it IS the last time; and as ye have heard that "antichrist" shall come, ...even NOW are there MANY "antichrists" whereby we know this is the last time.


Notice that John did not say "THE antichrist"... he noted this "antichrist" to be PLURAL... as in the MANY which bear a false message to the earth of the WORD, which IS ...JESUS CHRIST...


It is a spiritual principle... part of the ADVERSITY by which men are decieved. As noted above by the Apostle John, 2K years ago, this SPIRIT was already present then! If it was present THEN, it surely is present NOW... and is NOT some human being "pretending" to be CHRIST.


The MANY will not adhere to warnings such as this -- Matt 24:5 -- Matt 7:22-23


It is the FALLACY of BABYLON - (which is "christianity" in general), from which the people of GOD are called OUT -- Rev 18:4 -- YOU have already done this my brother, so leave behind ALL of BABYLON, taking nothing of her with you, as you walk into your future.

That will be the end of us. We will surely be killed for trying to take the meat off of their mouths!

Do not FEAR, for there is NO FEAR in LOVE -- 1 John 4:18 -- REST in the GLORY of the TRUTH, and seek with your WHOLE HEART -- Jer 29:13-14 -- that the "GOSPEL" you bear, ...is come forth of the

GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33 -- which speaks a,

GOSPEL of PEACE -- Eph 6:15 -- and speaks of the COMPLETE victory of the,

CROSS of PEACE -- Col 1:20 -- telling this GOOD NEWS, to the world, that GOD's,

Son of PEACE -- Luke 10:6 -- Which has taken away its SIN -- John 1:29


And which has sought and SAVED -- Luke 19:10 -- that which became LOST (destroyed in death) in ADAM (which is ALL MEN) -- 1 Cor 15:22 -- which consists of ---

(1) the FULLNESS (complete number) of the GENTILES (non-Jews) -- Rom 11:25 -- and,

(2) ALL (the fullness) of ISRAEL -- Rom 11:26





PEACE... ...willieH

 

[timewerx]

FIRST --- You need to found your beliefs in Scripture, before you bellow them to another, bro. ...Where did JESUS tell anyone to HATE MONEY? JESUS said no such thing... those are YOUR WORDS, not His!

He DID SAY that man cannot SERVE MONEY (of the "unrighteous" brand) and SERVE GOD, simultaneously -- Luke 16:9-13 -- Matt 6:24 -- He did NOT SAY that we should "HATE MONEY"... those are YOUR WORDS, not His. He instructed us not to SERVE or LOVE, "money"...

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

- Hate one, love the other
- Devoted to the one and despise the other

God (Spirit) and money (things of the flesh) are polar opposites => Eternal vs temporal, Bread of Life vs food that spoils, Life-giving vs no value.

Or in down-to-Earth example: fresh food vs spoiled food.

A pig will eat spoiled food. Pigs value spoiled foods. But to a man, he/she will hate spoiled food and throw it away!

As to a new creation in God, he/she will hate money!

Simple deductive reasoning. If you love God, you therefore hate.......

SECOND

---

JESUS

"annoyed" the Pharisees because He taught with the SPIRITUAL AUTHORITY they lacked... "Money" had little (or nothing) to do with it.

Yup, money is just one thing. Probably not a big deal in the times and locations of Jesus.

But today, it's a big thing.

Many will swing from one extreme to the other. I advise you to STUDY the WORD for yourself (let all previously held "theological" perceptions -- go!).

And as you prayerfully STUDY, you will find (and as GOD LEADS), gradual revelation of the principles in the WORD, which HE shall reveal to you, not the HEARSAY brought to your ears by "this" church or "that" pastor...

You might have missed me say I was a Christian for 20 years in the Pentecostal/Evangelical, and a little bit of Baptist denominations.

I did the very thing you're asking me to do 3 months ago. The Holy Spirit hit me head on, spending only 4 hours of sleep a day pouring over the Word for weeks! I have quit my job at that time so I had the whole waking hours to myself studying the Word.

I have let every held theological perceptions go (Pentecostal/Evangelical), including what every Christian has told me...

But understand, long before that, I've already felt something wrong with the mainstream Christianity. Especially in their treatment of the poor....

It's either the Holy Spirit tapping my shoulder all the time or the fact that I grew up with the poor or both! I know their plight, I know their hardships, and I know there's much good stuff in them..

..And the work of the very few Christians doing the Will of God for the lost and the poor is not enough, it's shamefully not even remote!!

Something is wrong when Jesus said, we are to be light and salt of the world when many Christians value their comfort, happiness, and pleasures more than the plight of the desperate and very very lost.

If you really wish to have a NEW experience in CHRIST, then make sure what you "believe" is standing upon verses which actually SAY what you "believe" -- case in point is that JESUS never SAID to "HATE MONEY"

I did not have a new experience in Christ, he turned me into a new creation!

Again... make sure that your FAITH is actually founded upon things which GOD states in His WORD. If you cannot establish SCRIPTURAL foundation for any "belief", ...then it is of the FALLACY and INIQUITY which MANY shall face in the end -- Matt 7:22-23 -- do NOT be numbered amongst them!

The deception is great, we must never stop seeking and asking the God for wisdom and blessings of the Truth.

"antichrist" is not a person. Never was, never will be. "antichrist" is, was and always will be, ...ANY principle -- which stands in OPPOSITION to CHRIST.

Notice that John did not say "THE antichrist"... he noted this "antichrist" to be PLURAL... as in the MANY which bear a false message to the earth of the WORD, which IS ...JESUS CHRIST...

I agree it's more of a title. But there will be one who will be great, pretend to be Jesus and deceive many. He is the one called the 'false prophet' and will be given the same sentence as Satan.

As the real Jesus, he will exercise iron will but against the Sons of God. He will sanction the killing of the true followers of Jesus.

It is the FALLACY of BABYLON - (which is "christianity" in general), from which the people of GOD are called OUT -- Rev 18:4 -- YOU have already done this my brother, so leave behind ALL of BABYLON, taking nothing of her with you, as you walk into your future.

It's quite funny you're accusing me to be one of them when if you read the whole Revelations 18:4-8 it says "glory and luxury to herself" which I have always opposed my posts.

Babylon also represents multitudes, we in our beliefs are very few

Do not FEAR, for there is NO FEAR in LOVE -- 1 John 4:18 -- REST in the GLORY of the TRUTH, and seek with your WHOLE HEART -- Jer 29:13-14 -- that the "GOSPEL" you bear, ...is come forth of the

GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33 -- which speaks a,

GOSPEL of PEACE -- Eph 6:15 -- and speaks of the COMPLETE victory of the,

CROSS of PEACE -- Col 1:20 -- telling this GOOD NEWS, to the world, that GOD's,

Son of PEACE -- Luke 10:6 -- Which has taken away its SIN -- John 1:29


And which has sought and SAVED -- Luke 19:10 -- that which became LOST (destroyed in death) in ADAM (which is ALL MEN) -- 1 Cor 15:22 -- which consists of ---

(1) the FULLNESS (complete number) of the GENTILES (non-Jews) -- Rom 11:25 -- and,

(2) ALL (the fullness) of ISRAEL -- Rom 11:26

PEACE... ...willieH

I don't disagree

I only fear God.

I have no fear for the economy should it collapse overnight, and anarchy ensues for those things have no value

I'll have peace even in poverty for only the Spirit matters, nothing in the flesh matters!

 

[strangertoo]

The question is, to sin or not to sin?

It's a CHOICE , but hardly a question ...

a choice between Jesus and Satan , between happiness of Love and emptiness of abuse of folks which leads to extreme misery of the great tribulation and lake of fire... not much to question except perhaps how Satan manages to con so many folks that sin is great...

Paul said,"let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumbling-block, or an occasion to fall in his brothers way" (Rom.14:13).

everyone COULD judge themselves by conscience and save themselves the shame and embarrassment of being judged by God... but Paul is quite right, this now is NOT the time of judgement EXCEPT for the few who do judge themselves and stop sinning , perfect Love now so as to be ready to serve as kings and priests in the later salvation of the many...

Most people do not understand the PRINCIPLE of sin, and can not distinguish between that which is a sin, from that which is not a sin.

Nay - we all have a conscience... folks just DECIDE not to listen to what they KNOW is RIGHT [thanks to Adam acquiring the knowledge of good and evil]

If you will study the Bible, you will see that it teaches us the PRINCIPLE of sin. But it seems that people would rather CREATE there OWN IDEAS of what sin is, forgetting the "PRINCIPLES" of Christ, and the FOUNDATION which was laid for us to build upon.

You seem to love words... Jesus COMMANDED Love , most folks abuse others with sin cos' they think that's great... soon they will see it's not great...

I often ask, why are some things considered sin, and it's equivalent is not considered sin?

To Love is NOT sin, to not Love is sin... easy , one's own conscience tells one if one listens.... but not if one closes one's eyes and ears... sin always requires denial of Love...

The PRINCIPLE is this; when we do wrong, or commit, what WE consider sin, We are convicted by OUR OWN conscience, not someone else's (Jn.8:9).

... nay my friend, all natural conscience is the spirit of the Truth of Love of God ... God only has ONE voice , ONE Truth of Love... the so-called 'moraliity' of men is as diverse as mankind ...

it is for man to come to God's Love, not for men to go their own way and claim it is Love...

Love includes the Plan of God for Love of all men ... clearly then one cannot Love without spirit baptism, without being conformed to the Truth of God, to Christ :-

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

thus the question one might ask to check oneself might be : 'What would Jesus do now?'

and there is only one true answer...

 

[WillieH]

willieH: Hi timewerx...

Matthew 6:24
"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.

- Hate one, love the other
- Devoted to the one and despise the other

Actually in part I stand corrected...

Because EVERYTHING concerning SPIRITUAL understanding must be compared with REASON, ...and indeed, the translation of Greek and Hebrew into ENGLISH, must be compared with said REASON, before arriving at a conclusion.


There IS this to say. The translation of the word "HATE" which appears in this verse, ...is that which I question, with REASON -- Isaiah 1:18



The word translated "hate" (erroneously as I see it) in this verse, is -- MISEO -- #G3404 -- which means to "love less", or "detest"...


For instance, ...GOD or His followers, ....cannot "HATE", for that is something that (God who IS) LOVE -- 1 John 4:8 -- cannot actually DO, and yet remain UNCHANGING -- Mal 3:6 -- Heb 13:8 -- as "LOVE" itself.


GOD, in teaching us of His own character, and within His "conversion" of our hearts, cannot teach us to HATE, and teach us to LOVE simultaneously, as these 2 attributes are in OPPOSITION to one another.


That said, ...God can BE (the UNCHANGING entity) LOVE, and still "detest" or "Love" something less! As can WE as His followers, seeking to emulate Him.

God (Spirit) and money (things of the flesh) are polar opposites => Eternal vs temporal, Bread of Life vs food that spoils, Life-giving vs no value.

No offense, but --

(1) you generalize all "things of the flesh" as "MONEY"? And,

(2) continuing that generalization, ...compare FOOD which is temporal and NECESSARY for the sustenance of LIFE, as having "NO VALUE"? Does that mean you shall abstain from eating? As it has no "life-giving" value? Please! (maybe I am not getting your intent here )


All things which are temporal, are mirror images of the ETERNAL. Do you believe also, that in being made in the IMAGE of God, you shall be other than "MAN" in the ETERNAL? What might that be, timewerx?

Or in down-to-Earth example: fresh food vs spoiled food.

A pig will eat spoiled food. Pigs value spoiled foods. But to a man, he/she will hate spoiled food and throw it away!

I do not see any point in this whatsoever. Those things which GOD created to DISPOSE, are doing as intended (thank God!), ...flies, wild animals, pigs, buzzards, bottom feeding marine life, etc.

As to a new creation in God, he/she will hate money!

Simple deductive reasoning. If you love God, you therefore hate.......

You appear to be creating your own theology as you go... GOD does not teach us to HATE... He teaches us to LOVE... tell me that you "get" that bro!


Where does GOD actually teach us to HATE? I have already shown you above, that the word "HATE" as it appears in -- Matt 6:24 -- makes no REASONABLE sense, when compared to God's teaching us to LOVE the UN-LOVEABLE:


Luke 6:35 -- but LOVE your enemies, and do GOOD, and lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the HIGHEST, for --------- HE is KIND unto the UNTHANKFUL and, the EVIL.


As I see it, ...you have not examined the WORD carefully enough.


Because you have not SEARCHED in detail and in APPLYING REASON, ...Your desire to HATE remains, which is certainly NOT the teaching found in the WORD, ...and which means that LOVE in that capacity (which you unbiblically and UN-REASON-ABLY found) within you, is NOT PRESENT.


If you LOVE God, you shall not HATE anything which HE has created.


GOD does not want us to HATE "money", He wants us to LOVE Him first, and in doing so, apply that LOVE to our useage and stewardship of MONEY.

Yup, money is just one thing. Probably not a big deal in the times and locations of Jesus.

But today, it's a big thing.

You decieve yourself -- Jer 17:9 -- bro. MONEY in its ancient forms, was every bit as PRESENT with some (rich), and ABSENT with others (poor), ...as it is today. And it affected people in the very same way THEN as it does NOW.

You might have missed me say I was a Christian for 20 years in the Pentecostal/Evangelical, and a little bit of Baptist denominations.

I did not "miss" that at all! Heardya loud 'n clear.

I did the very thing you're asking me to do 3 months ago. The Holy Spirit hit me head on, spending only 4 hours of sleep a day pouring over the Word for weeks! I have quit my job at that time so I had the whole waking hours to myself studying the Word.

You think there is a period of time that qualifiies your understandings? We must be dedicated and OPEN to NEW understandings... not fit them into a little box that suits us...


You are intent on HATING MONEY (noting "money" to be the "things of the flesh" (which it is not)... Guess then it is time for YOU, to get down on GOD bro, because He blessed JOB with immensely MORE than he had at first (which was already A LOT)!


To begin with, -- Job 1:2-3 -- JOB had --- 10 kids, 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 yoke of oxen, 500 female asses, AND a very GREAT household (with ALL the "trimmings" - swimming pool, tennis court, bowling alley, ... ), ...and along with that he was considered the GREATEST man in all the east!


Job 42:10 -- and YHVH God turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends... also, YHVH God gave Job, ...TWICE AS MUCH as he HAD BEFORE!


timewerx, ...GOD can reveal to anyone ALL in an INSTANT if He so desired to do so. ...Or, NOTHING.


It is commendable that you have re-dedicated your life to Him... and I did not seek to "ask" you to do anything!


I advised you to base your FINDINGS upon Scripture... not invent (unscripturally based) things, and then SAY they came from the WORD.

I have let every held theological perceptions go (Pentecostal/Evangelical), including what every Christian has told me...

But understand, long before that, I've already felt something wrong with the mainstream Christianity. Especially in their treatment of the poor....

It's either the Holy Spirit tapping my shoulder all the time or the fact that I grew up with the poor or both! I know their plight, I know their hardships, and I know there's much good stuff in them..

..And the work of the very few Christians doing the Will of God for the lost and the poor is not enough, it's shamefully not even remote!!

Something is wrong when Jesus said, we are to be light and salt of the world when many Christians value their comfort, happiness, and pleasures more than the plight of the desperate and very very lost.

Hmmm... how are you (as you inflict poverty upon yourself), thereby going to, ..."help the POOR"?

I did not have a new experience in Christ, he turned me into a new creation!

Just as a baby, needs to grow, so do YOU, as this "new creation" you percieve of yourself!

The deception is great, we must never stop seeking and asking the God for wisdom and blessings of the Truth.

I totally agree...

I agree it's more of a title. But there will be one who will be great, pretend to be Jesus and deceive many. He is the one called the 'false prophet' and will be given the same sentence as Satan.

The "FALSE PROPHET" is not a particular MAN, ...it ...IS... christianity! Which is WHY JESUS noted believers which were "doing good works", and "casting out devils", actually doing... INIQUITY! -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 24:5


The words PROPHET and PROPHECY, are not just a "foretelling" of the future, these also mean bringing a message to an audience. The message that modern chrisitianity brings is FALSE, in almost every teaching they propose excepting, CHRIST as Savior!


Yes, ...they call Him Lord -- Matt 24:5 -- but the TRUTH within the message they bring (prophesy) STOPS there... instead, they misrepresent Him and drag Him down as an hypocritical, vengent, unmerciful, unloving, unGRACEful, incompassionate MONSTER which shall BURN men either in the MURDER of them (annhilation -- as did HITLER), or in ETERNAL TORMENT (hell -- worse than HITLER)!


Instead of bringing to the world the message of LOVE, called the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Mark 16:15 -- Eph 6:15 -- they THREATEN the world (God SO LOVES -- John 3:16), which CHRIST DIED for -- Rom 5:6-8 -- with HELL, or ANNHILATION!

As the real Jesus, he will exercise iron will but against the Sons of God. He will sanction the killing of the true followers of Jesus.

I'm thinking you refer to SYMBOLIC writing. That SYMBOLISM cannot be taken LITERALLY. YHVH even notes in His WORD, that HATRED of a brother, is the same as KILLING him -- 1 John 3:15


Christianity has immensely grown... They are 2.5 BILLION strong on this earth... there are only a FEW which (amount to whisper in a storm), GOD has revealed, and thereby bring the GOSPEL of PEACE... which is the SALVATION of ALL MEN. GOD victorious in EVERY CASE where SIN appeared -- Rom 5:20

It's quite funny you're accusing me to be one of them when if you read the whole Revelations 18:4-8 it says "glory and luxury to herself" which I have always opposed my posts.

I don't accuse you... I advise you... big difference. If you continue to take ANY of the teachings of ORTHODOXY to the world, then YOU in that capacity, are assisting BABYLON, and have not "come out of her" to that degree...

Babylon also represents multitudes, we in our beliefs are very few

The FIRST shall be LAST, ...and the LAST shall be FIRST -- Mark 10:31


The "FIRST" includes the JEWS which had the WORD - 1st (and were BLINDED in their PRIDEFUL stewardship of it - Rom 11:25) = 1st... become LAST and,


The "FIRST" includes also, CHRISTIANITY which had the GOSPEL - 1st - and were deemed INIQUITOUS by the very WORD they selfishly possessed and misrepresented -- (due to their PRIDEFUL and SELF ORIENTED stewardship of it -- Matt 7:22-23) = 1st... become LAST


*******************************************************

The "LAST", includes ALL those which were NOT JEWS and had NOT the WORD = LAST... become FIRST and,


the "LAST" is also, ALL those who were WITHOUT the GOSPEL, due to those (CHRISTIANITY) who had it and FALSELY represented it = LAST... become FIRST.

I don't disagree[/quoet]


GOOD!

I only fear God.

You are not to FEAR, anything.


When it comes to GOD, you are to be in AWE and RESPECT of Him, not ...AFRAID of Him -- 1 John 4:8, 18

I have no fear for the economy should it collapse overnight, and anarchy ensues for those things have no value

GOOD.

I'll have peace even in poverty for only the Spirit matters, nothing in the flesh matters!

Though I believe you misunderstand about MONEY... what you ESTEEM to be UNCLEAN for you, is therefore, UNCLEAN to you -- Rom 14:14 -- So, don't forget to send me your paycheck ...if you get one, ...



PEACE... ...willieH

 

[FreeinChrist]

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[timewerx]

The word translated "hate" (erroneously as I see it) in this verse, is -- MISEO -- #G3404 -- which means to "love less", or "detest"...

Thanks for the translation! "Detest" is still not a very nice thing to say to someone, if you're getting me...

I "detest" money shows a very negative attitude towards money.

(1)

you generalize all "things of the flesh" as "MONEY"? And,

(2) continuing that generalization, ...compare FOOD which is temporal and NECESSARY for the sustenance of LIFE, as having "NO VALUE"? Does that mean you shall abstain from eating? As it has no "life-giving" value? Please! (maybe I am not getting your intent here )

The things of the flesh is almost always associated with money. You study (education) to earn money, You get a career to earn money, the way you like, you cannot do recreation, hobbies, pleasure, without money. You cannot/very difficult to earn the respect and adoration of others as poor. It's impossible to live a long and good life in poverty, poverty often promotes high mortality risks.

Things of the flesh, even LIFE amounts to nothing. We will all die in the end. But only those who ate of the Bread of Life will find true life.

All things which are temporal, are mirror images of the ETERNAL. Do you believe also, that in being made in the IMAGE of God, you shall be other than "MAN" in the ETERNAL? What might that be, timewerx?

We are created in God's image in Spirit.

Our physical bodies are only designed for adaptation to Earth as Jesus did.

If there are other beings created by God in other planets as man with quite unique environment, they will look quite different from us physically.

If Jesus had to appear in other planets, perhaps, bring to Gospel to them for the devil has corrupted them as well, Jesus would assume the physical body of the native inhabitants.

I do not see any point in this whatsoever. Those things which GOD created to DISPOSE, are doing as intended (thank God!), ...flies, wild animals, pigs, buzzards, bottom feeding marine life, etc.

I'm not talking of the literal garbage here...

I'm simply illustrating the point of man(unbeliever) reborn of the spirit then becomes a new creature in God.

A new creature vs old creature => two different creatures with different natures/instincts.

As pig that places high value in spoiled foods, is man running after food that spoils. A new creature reborn in the Spirit as a new creature is like a pig turning into a man, now detesting spoiled foods and now running for fresh foods.

For a man running after food that spoils, renewed and now running after the 'Bread of Life', not by rule or someone told them to but because of their new nature/instinct.

I really shouldn't be telling anyone how to act. But their fruits reveal them.

Are you now a new creature in God?

You appear to be creating your own theology as you go... GOD does not teach us to HATE... He teaches us to LOVE... tell me that you "get" that bro!

You have to understand the context of my posts for context is everything!

If I absolutely hate anyone, I would not have bothered telling anyone they are risking their salvation by taking the matters too lightly especially in the area of material attachment..

The higher purpose of loving is bringing others to salvation, NOT just pleasing/satisfying them in the flesh - telling them what they want to hear!

For God so loved the world.... I believe Jesus loved the world too!!

But his Gospel of Salvation did not please everyone, in fact made many angry to hand him his death sentence!

Where does GOD actually teach us to HATE? I have already shown you above, that the word "HATE" as it appears in -- Matt 6:24 -- makes no REASONABLE sense, when compared to God's teaching us to LOVE the UN-LOVEABLE:

Luke 6:35

-- but LOVE your enemies, and do GOOD, and lend, hoping for nothing again, and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the HIGHEST, for --------- HE is KIND unto the UNTHANKFUL and, the EVIL.

Again, this is in the context of the Spirit and salvation.

If they throw you a rock, you throw them back the 'Bread of Life'

Throw them the word of salvation. Help them in their basic needs (food and clothing) if they lack these, but salvation come as a much higher priority.

If you LOVE God, you shall not HATE anything which HE has created.

God did not invent money. Money/economy was taught to humanity by Fallen Angels. In fact, education, arts and culture, mining/manufacturing, eating meat, technology, warfare/weapons, etc, these things we seem to take for granted today are taught to us by Fallen Angels!

Got to read Book of Enoch for that. It's sad that not all of scriptures made it into Canon.

God did not invent those things but are the invention/creation of Fallen Angels. In fact those things observably are destroying/abusing His creations!! It's a dead give away, those things are NOT of God! God cannot oppose himself!

That why Jesus mentioned God detests those things and treats them as abominations.

GOD does not want us to HATE "money", He wants us to LOVE Him first, and in doing so, apply that LOVE to our useage and stewardship of MONEY.

I can also interpret the scripture to love money in full theological validity...

But you can also interpret the scripture to dislike money in full theological validity...

I choose the latter...

For again, observably, those things, including money/profits are the result of the abuse/exploitation of others and Nature.

Your money cries out the blood of the innocents. It's abomination we must unfortunately get in to try to save others. Wash it off as soon as you get to higher ground of Jesus, our Rock!

It's a terrifyingly unclean thing not to be loved a bit.

You decieve yourself -- Jer 17:9 -- bro. MONEY in its ancient forms, was every bit as PRESENT with some (rich), and ABSENT with others (poor), ...as it is today. And it affected people in the very same way THEN as it does NOW.

To those who love and couldn't survive without money, yes.

The People of God is not affected even for the total lack of it.

You think there is a period of time that qualifiies your understandings? We must be dedicated and OPEN to NEW understandings... not fit them into a little box that suits us...

Yes, back in Jesus time, there are only few 'rich young ruler'.

Today, we got many 'rich young rulers' who rule their own little empires and love their many possessions.

You got it right! It's a small box I'm saying according to my understanding of Jesus , only FEW will fit in!

Don't you think it accurately portrays what Jesus is teaching?

It is very hard for the rich to enter the Kingdom of Heaven for they refuse to accept the True Gospel.

Those who have many possessions today, will find these very hard to accept and may even turn away from the faith, but don't worry for only very few preaches these things today!

You are intent on HATING MONEY (noting "money" to be the "things of the flesh" (which it is not)... Guess then it is time for YOU, to get down on GOD bro, because He blessed JOB with immensely MORE than he had at first (which was already A LOT)!

In the time of Job, the Old Testament, they stoned sinners to death, sacrificed tons of expensive animals, and did dreadful traditions.

Do you want to bring those back as well??

Jesus said we're done with those things. We don't stone sinners to death, sacrifice a lot of animals, do dreadful traditions, and no longer keep extras... We now give all extras away, keeping only food, clothing and a few other cheap possessions to ourselves.

Why do Christians have such great difficulty using NT teachings on money when they easily adopted other new NT teachings??

timewerx, ...GOD can reveal to anyone ALL in an INSTANT if He so desired to do so. ...Or, NOTHING.

The fact that God did!

I've said on that day to Love God with all I had, even if it means desperate poverty!

I did not hate money that time yet.... ...But I tell you, in all my 20 years of Christian life, I never had such radical rebirth until I told God, I will follow him to the very end even if I have to lose everything, including my own life... ...even if I have to starve to death...

After that, God, sent a torrent of Truth my way!

I don't think it's a crazy thing to say for we all know, some Christians have made incredible sacrifice to God!

The problem with many Christian is they never even think so radically. They love comfort even in thoughts! You never hear the radical things the Holy Spirit is saying!

I advised you to base your FINDINGS upon Scripture... not invent (unscripturally based) things, and then SAY they came from the WORD.

It is the scripture alright. But God opened my understanding to the scriptures.

Sad that only FEW have understand the scriptures in the light I have seen. That's why most will disagree until they stopped loving/enjoying the things of the flesh.

Hmmm... how are you (as you inflict poverty upon yourself), thereby going to, ..."help the POOR"?

If you live in poverty by spending so little to yourself while earning a normal salary, you can give a lot, if not, most your earnings for the Gospel and the poor!

The "FALSE PROPHET" is not a particular MAN, ...it ...IS... christianity! Which is WHY JESUS noted believers which were "doing good works", and "casting out devils", actually doing... INIQUITY! -- Matt 7:22-23 -- Matt 24:5

I never saw that coming!!

It never occurred to me you were speaking against Christianity.

Yes, ...they call Him Lord -- Matt 24:5 -- but the TRUTH within the message they bring (prophesy) STOPS there... instead, they misrepresent Him and drag Him down as an hypocritical, vengent, unmerciful, unloving, unGRACEful, incompassionate MONSTER which shall BURN men either in the MURDER of them (annhilation -- as did HITLER), or in ETERNAL TORMENT (hell -- worse than HITLER)!

You are probably missing the point of the Message of Salvation.

It is the message of ultimate love! Unfortunately, it cannot be reconciled with the flesh.

Those who live in the flesh and continue to live in the flesh after they have heard the message of salvation will eventually be offended by the True Gospel.

How else would Jesus offend so many to hand him his death sentence?
I'm thinking you refer to SYMBOLIC writing. That SYMBOLISM cannot be taken LITERALLY. YHVH even notes in His WORD, that HATRED of a brother, is the same as KILLING him -- 1 John 3:15

As earlier, context is everything.

Money is simply flesh.

Person has two, flesh and the Spirit. Many will initially live in the flesh. So it's natural to catch their attention by satisfying the flesh (miracle of loaves and fish) Then satisfying the Spirit once you catch their attention.

Again, once you delve into the spirit, those who continue to live in the flesh will start to take offense. No getting around it. If Jesus preached the things of the flesh are good, he would not get killed for everyone, except the poor will like him!

Christianity has immensely grown... They are 2.5 BILLION strong on this earth... there are only a FEW which (amount to whisper in a storm), GOD has revealed, and thereby bring the GOSPEL of PEACE... which is the SALVATION of ALL MEN. GOD victorious in EVERY CASE where SIN appeared -- Rom 5:20

Only FEW treats money much/radically differently than the rest.

At this moment, your beliefs about money is similar as the rest.

I really can't say much about salvation of those who died sinning. The Bible is not very clear on this, even the Holy Spirit's dealing with me, has no word yet.

I don't accuse you... I advise you... big difference. If you continue to take ANY of the teachings of ORTHODOXY to the world, then YOU in that capacity, are assisting BABYLON, and have not "come out of her" to that degree...

Far from orthodox. Only very few among Christians would take the teachings about money in NT literally.

Not even help Babylon. If 2.5 Billion of those Christian would take those NT teachings on money literally, it would bring an end to the world economy - the thing that is abusing/exploiting God's creations.

For the world's richest countries who holds most of the world's wealth, more than 70% of their total population are Christians!

Frankly, I'm beginning to feel, you repeated fail to analyze or understand some of the things I'm saying. We are simply going around in circles as I try to prove my point over and over.

I am open to rebukes, rebuttals, corrections, for any thoroughly analyzed and intelligently thought of responses.

But now I just think I'm wasting my time with you. I pray that God will eventually work Wisdom and Truth to you. This is the end of my responses to you, for now. I have to make more time for other things, sorry!

 

[strangertoo]

Perhaps let God have the last word in this mostly less-than-Loving discourse...

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16 ...God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
...
1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil;


1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
but he that is begotten of God
keepeth himself,
and that wicked one toucheth him not.