God doesn't like me

[linssue55]

God would never do that, any more than He would allow a young child (that doesn't know about Him) to go to hell. Never!

All we need to do is simply, "Believe (that He is our savior) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou "SHALL BE SAVED". Period!

This looks to be a contradiction. I a child that doesn't know about Christ doesn't go to hell. Why should anyone believe in Christ in order to avoid hell?

The big paradox here is that it sounds like I am better off never having heard of Christianity if I wish to enter heaven...

A site for unbelievers........

www.eph289.com

 

[fatpie42]

A site for unbelievers........

www.eph289.com

That is NOT a site for unbelievers. No unbeliever would want to look at that site. I'm afraid I am not impressed by your scare-tactics. Using 'hell' to convert people is a cheap trick by anyone's standards.

 

[fatpie42]

God would never do that, any more than He would allow a young child (that doesn't know about Him) to go to hell. Never!

All we need to do is simply, "Believe (that He is our savior) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou "SHALL BE SAVED". Period!

This looks to be a contradiction. If a child that doesn't know about Christ doesn't go to hell, why should anyone believe in Christ in order to avoid hell?

The big paradox here is that it sounds like I am better off never having heard of Christianity if I wish to enter heaven...

Because if a person does enter hell, they would have wished they had believed in time. Christianity is the best gift that man kind could ever recieve, because we do nothing but believe, then for all eternity we have the most unimaginable wondeful life that you or I can't even begin to concieve, and in time you or I will have someone that will NEVER let us down. Now that's love.

So why would God let someone into heaven on the grounds of ignorance, but send someone to hell on the grounds of intellectual confusion? It seems that God's main reason for NOT letting a nice person who happens to be an atheist into heaven, is because they didn't 'understand' the Christian message. On the other hand, God's main reason for letting a nice person who never heard the Christian message IN to heaven, is that they were 'ignorant' of the Christian message.

Am I the only person who thinks that the person who never heard the Christian message gets a better deal?

 

[dvd_holc]

So why would God let someone into heaven on the grounds of ignorance, but send someone to hell on the grounds of intellectual confusion? It seems that God's main reason for NOT letting a nice person who happens to be an atheist into heaven, is because they didn't 'understand' the Christian message. On the other hand, God's main reason for letting a nice person who never heard the Christian message IN to heaven, is that they were 'ignorant' of the Christian message.

Am I the only person who thinks that the person who never heard the Christian message gets a better deal?

Children and certain others are considered innocent to God. And, there is the possibilty of people who have not heard of Jesus to know God because God is not never seperated from his creation. God has the authority to judge mankind whether they love him and his way or not. And, the atheist has no love for God because he first denies him.

 

[Davis]

Children and certain others are considered innocent to God. And, there is the possibilty of people who have not heard of Jesus to know God because God is not never seperated from his creation. God has the authority to judge mankind whether they love him and his way or not. And, the atheist has no love for God because he first denies him.

Nice post. I agree DVD.
I just don't see how people that were christians at one time or others, how they can question the creator of the sun, moon, stars, and the earth. The Lord spoke His Word and sent His Son to die on that cross. I think denying Him and His Son is a big slap in the face. Why should God forgive us when we don't have the blood of Christ covering our sins. God is Holy. He can not be in the presence of Sin for eternity. The Blood of Christ covers those sins. But those who do not believe are still stained with sin because they reject what Christ came to do and did. I mean wake up people!!!! It is us who deny Him. It is ourselves that send us to hell. We make the choice. Why is it so hard to accept God? He has given us a gift!!!! Were the ones that reject it. The curse of hell is upon ourselves by our own choices. Not because God wants to send us there.

 

[fatpie42]

Atheists don't 'deny God' or 'deny Christ's sacrifice'. They deny God's existence and, as a result, Christ's status as God. How can anyone deny something that doesn't exist? How can someone who does not believe in God see Jesus' death as anything but either a very strong reaction to a man protesting against the status quo or a horrible tragedy (possibly a combination)?

 

[dvd_holc]

Atheists don't 'deny God' or 'deny Christ's sacrifice'. They deny God's existence and, as a result, Christ's status as God. How can anyone deny something that doesn't exist? How can someone who does not believe in God see Jesus' death as anything but either a very strong reaction to a man protesting against the status quo or a horrible tragedy (possibly a combination)?

First, you say "Atheists don't 'deny God'". Then you say, "They deny God's existence". How does that not deny God?

When you open the bible it opens with:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.​

If you can't get past that...God being without being created and he created this creation then you won't find the faith anything but a waste....So then are you here to argue and debate?​

 

[fatpie42]

First, you say "Atheists don't 'deny God'". Then you say, "They deny God's existence". How does that not deny God?

When you open the bible it opens with:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.​

If you can't get past that...God being without being created and he created this creation then you won't find the faith anything but a waste....So then are you here to argue and debate?​

Sorry I thought you had to have knowledge of something in order to affirm its existence.

If people who have no knowledge of Christ can still fail to deny Christ, how can atheists who deny God's existence (because they have no knowledge of it) be said to be denying God?

 

[Reformationist]

Why not just have the whole world know nothing, and (guess what) judge them on how they act? (that's kinda how we do it, judge people for what they do, and not who they know, and it's kinda working for us)

Umm...I'm curious about this. If non-believers, like yourself, "judge people for what they do," against whose standard of right and wrong do you judge them? Also, in what way is this system "working for you?" What does it accomplish?

 

[Davis]

Sorry I thought you had to have knowledge of something in order to affirm its existence.

If people who have no knowledge of Christ can still fail to deny Christ, how can atheists who deny God's existence (because they have no knowledge of it) be said to be denying God?

Denying is denying............

You can make all the excuses you want but in the end you will have to answer to God. Whether or not you believe in Him or not.
People that don't believe in God choose not to believe in Him. I have many friends that are not believers. They choose to not believe. That is denying Gods existence.

 

[matthewgoh]

What Jesus says about man cannot see God unless he sees Christ is so true. The key to heaven is in our hand, it seems so easy and yet so difficult to open the gate of heaven. It really amazes me..... the choice of life can be so difficult to make.

I just hope that you will make the right choice during your earthly life when you still have a choice. God bless.

 

[fatpie42]

Umm...I'm curious about this. If non-believers, like yourself, "judge people for what they do," against whose standard of right and wrong do you judge them? Also, in what way is this system "working for you?" What does it accomplish?

Whose standard of right and wrong? Well, I would generally go with Railton's conception of meta-ethics myself, so they would understand the standard of right and wrong as best they could, but would be limited by their own rationality and the amount of information available to them.

If you are trying to suggest that only God confirms the standards of right and wrong, then you should check out Socrates' "Euthyphro problem". When Socrates was talking to a man named Euthyphro he asked whether 'good' was good because the gods willed it, or whether the gods willed it because it was good.
- The issue here is that if it is 'good because God wills it', then ANYTHING could be good. The whole process would become arbitrary. Killing a man could become right so long as it is done between 2 and 3 a.m. or other such nonsensical moral rules, simply on the grounds that 'God says so'.
- The natural answer to that last point is that God would not command anything like that because he would only command something good. But if something is 'willed by God because it is good' then that suggests that good is not something dictated by God, but is a part of creation which we can assess without recourse to revelation.

Put it this way: salt would not be soluble unless God had created it that way, but no one would say "how can you assess the solubility of salt without looking at God's standards of solubility?" since that would be to pull scientific concepts completely out of context. Salt might have been created soluble, but the study of solubility does not require that any thought be given to the the creator.

A system of ethics does work for us very well and to ask what ethics accomplishes seems rather odd to me. What would this world be like without moral action? *shudders*

 

[fatpie42]

Denying is denying............

You can make all the excuses you want but in the end you will have to answer to God. Whether or not you believe in Him or not.
People that don't believe in God choose not to believe in Him. I have many friends that are not believers. They choose to not believe. That is denying Gods existence.

To what extent does someone CHOOSE not to believe in aliens or ghosts? There is very little evidence for these things. One does not need to believe in them to cope with everyday life.

We'd think language was being used in a very odd way if a ghost turned up and said "you denied me!" (instead "you didn't believe in me"). Did I deny Henry VIII's ghost? No! I just didn't believe in it. I had no evidence for it, I didn't really know about it except through some heresay evidence, so how could I be said to be 'denying Henry VIII's ghost'.

Peter could be said to be 'denying Christ' because he KNEW who Jesus was and had seen a wealth of evidence for it. I am not in that position. I simply don't believe.

 

[fatpie42]

I just hope that you will make the right choice during your earthly life when you still have a choice. God bless.

What choice? It isn't really a live choice at all is it?

If you want to save me, don't pray that I make a 'choice'. Pray that I get blessed with God's grace.

 

[ChristIsTHEKing]

Please understand I do not say this with ill-intentions but just stressing the truth. You, like all non-believers who have heard and have denied, have directly or indirectly made yourself your own god. You have decided that you know better than the one who made you. Would you say to a physicist that you know more about quantum physics? Would you say to a doctor that you know more about physiology? Would you say to a judge that you know more than he of the law? So why would you say to God that you know more than He when He knows exponentially more than we? God has spoken these individuals saying why should the clay question the potter...were you there when I fashioned the heavens and the earth...when I made you in your mothers womb?? Understand that only by your limited knowledge do you consider that His righteousness is unfair. We, as Christians don't have all of the answers...but we have enough to know that He is King and we walk by faith.

There are many ways to come to know God without hearing his word, Psalm 19 explains the heavens and earth declare His glory. I would point you to John Polkinghorne, a physicist that describes the intricacies our very being. Also, there are people that have never heard his word have had dreams which led them to God. God is not bottled and does not need us to declare His majesty. For answers to many questions I point you to a pretty good apologist, Ravi Zacharias. rzim.org. He has many free audio downloads of open question/answer sessions. I encourage you to keep reading and pray that one day you will receive God's grace.

 

[dvd_holc]

What choice? It isn't really a live choice at all is it?

If you want to save me, don't pray that I make a 'choice'. Pray that I get blessed with God's grace.

We already believe that God has given a amazing amout of grace by living and having all the things in life. God presented his message of hope to you, sometimes through us other times through other means. It is you who has to accept him. It is the first choice of the marriage of God and the people of God.

 

[Davis]

To what extent does someone CHOOSE not to believe in aliens or ghosts? There is very little evidence for these things. One does not need to believe in them to cope with everyday life.

We'd think language was being used in a very odd way if a ghost turned up and said "you denied me!" (instead "you didn't believe in me"). Did I deny Henry VIII's ghost? No! I just didn't believe in it. I had no evidence for it, I didn't really know about it except through some heresay evidence, so how could I be said to be 'denying Henry VIII's ghost'.

Peter could be said to be 'denying Christ' because he KNEW who Jesus was and had seen a wealth of evidence for it. I am not in that position. I simply don't believe.

I think its obvious that you have not come here to seek God. Come back to me when your ready to open up your heart.

 

[IndustryUnleash]

And if you don't believe that (that people who've never heard of Jesus can get into heaven), then don't say anything about it. To me, those people are completely innocent, and there's nothing you can say to make me think your god is moral for giving them eternal punishment....just for being in the wrong place, wrong time.

If God wanted these people to become Christians, then they would not be at the "wrong place, wrong time." God chose who would be a Christian and when they would become it before the world began. He wouldn't let a future Christian be born at the "wrong place, wrong time"

Why are his standars so high for -his creation- that absolutely no one passes?

God did not make the standards high-we did. Adam and Eve were completely perfect until they accepted a lie and fell from grace. It would have been easy to pass the standard but because humanity was corrupted, the standard became high.

 

[Exist]

Also, in what way is this system "working for you?" What does it accomplish?

It enforces peace; without it, we wouldn't have as much peace as we have now. Peace is a good thing.

You have decided that you know better than the one who made you.

No, I've decided that I know better than some bronze-age sheep herders. I've yet to hear anything God has said.

People that don't believe in God choose not to believe in Him.

Pretty strong claim. I know that you have to hold on to this belief for your other beliefs to make any sense at all (and even then, they fail greatly)....But, I know me, and I know that I'm not lying when I say there is no choice. So believe what you want, but there will never be a conversion if you just make blanket claims that, to me, have no basis in reality.

If God wanted these people to become Christians, then they would not be at the "wrong place, wrong time.

And yet he desires all to become Christian. So either you're wrong, or the Bible is.

 

[icedtea]

He desires that, but cannot force it.