God doesn't like me

[Erock83]

"God is really really powerful so its best not to make home boy too mad,"

I don't appeal to power. If I see something wrong, I will fight it.

I guess that was an over simplification. I should have defined what I meant by power and powerful. I was really talking more about that linguistic and rhetorical power of God. Not the kind of rhetorical power that say someone like Jonathan Edwards (Sinners at the hands of an angry God Johnny). I’m talking to the notation that terms (speaking to any scripture) are actions and very powerful actions so powerful that they define our reality. I’ll link this back for you saying that powerful rhetorical stories get passed down though the ages because of there ability to relate to the human experience. I’m not sure if you have read the story of Abraham, in the Bible, the Torah, or the Koran. There is a reason why this story is re-printed and re-printed over and over again, because of it literary merit. Religion in its core is all about the struggle of Man v. Self (Man v. Self being a all inclusive term for humanity), which is embodied in the story of Abraham. Which in my opinion is the corner stone for understanding any three of the ‘Western’ religions.
Aside: There is a group in Colorado Springs that is coming out or at least were coming out with a Godless bible i.e. just the stories. They are also working on a genderless bible i.e referring to God as nuter. Both I think will be great tools to understand the nature of the biblical message.

"This basic story while hard to grasp does not fail any logical test nor is it outside of reason."

Hard to grasp meaning there's little evidence for this? Besides, what you say isn't Biblical: the demons believe in God, doesn't mean they'll be in heaven on Judgement day.

Well you and I could read a book or study by Steven Hawking and feel our brains turning to mush even if all the information is factual. Just because it is hard to understand does not mean there is little supporting evidence.
One Love

 

[heatherwayno]

It is not about living morally or doing good things, God's salvation is about GRACE not about works. IT is not about passing a test the only thing you need to do to get into HEAVEN is believe that Jesus died for your sins and accept him as your personal savior. If this sounds like a simple answer, it is because Salvation really is that simple. You can figure this out and do something about it while you still ahve the chance or one day regret it. You may not belive me now but one day everyone will confess that Jesus is lord even you. Do it before it is to late. Do you go to church? You should try it with an open mind.

 

[Exist]

I'm about to go to work, so I can't make this big.

Yes, sometimes I go to church. Most of the time, I do not.

When I go, I go expecting to learn. There is no teaching. Especially for somebody like me. There is a lot of noise and movements, and no substance.

It's not just a certain church I'm referring to. I've been to Catholic, Methadist (however you spell that), Church of Christ, Baptist, UU (that was actually the best of them all, I went there for quite a while....but it doesn't really count, because it's not Christian, right?), and even a Mormon church. I went to many different places, several times each, and there was nothing there for me. People were nice, but if I wanted nice people, I'd go chill at the local pub.

So that's a huge answer to a small question, but I seem to have more time, I'll keep going.

I will confess Jesus is Lord? But if I do it too late, then it will be for naught, and I'll still go to hell?

Why? Why will it be too late? We were (according to the Bible) created so that we may have a loving relationship with God. If I want that, why would he cast me away? That's why I was created, supposedly, but it seems that he's not that concerned about it, since I'm going to hell.

Well, gotta go, I'll finish this when I get home from work (unless I'm too tired).

 

[LilLamb219]

There is a lot of noise and movements, and no substance.

I go to a church where there is a lot of substance. Where I attend, there is the proper distinction between Law and Gospel and what is more important is that CHRIST is the focus and the forgiveness of our sins. I don't leave my church wondering, I leave KNOWING that because of the cross, I am forgiven and will have eternal life.

The churches you might have visited (from what it sounds) were very focused on entertaining the crowd and getting them emotional for Jesus but didn't feed you with the truth of the Law and Gospel.

 

[Exist]

Sometimes it was an emotional booster (for Christians), sometimes there were sermons (like ones you talked about), but none of it had anything to do with me. Nothing was relatable, nothing was there to help me out. When I would talk to the pastor, the questions I had could not be answered. So, why waste my time?

 

[Exist]

Well you and I could read a book or study by Steven Hawking and feel our brains turning to mush even if all the information is factual. Just because it is hard to understand does not mean there is little supporting evidence.

And what if I see all the evidence that Christianity has to offer, I understand it just as much as any Christian, yet I still believe that the "evidence" holds no water whatsoever?

If this sounds like a simple answer, it is because Salvation really is that simple.

Too simple, because it just doesn't make sense.

IT is not about passing a test the only thing you need to do to get into HEAVEN is believe that Jesus died for your sins and accept him as your personal savior.

It's not about passing the test? Then why is there a day of Judgement? Why are we all judged and condemned by our actions?

The Jesus deal is an easy out. Normally, you would be judged and condemned by your actions, but believing Jesus let's you bypass that judgement. Why not just leave out the judgement?

It makes a lot more sense to me to say that this theology evolved, and grew flaws, and have useless limbs every now and then that have to be recognized, because part of the religion is "if you have a question about a major flaw, ignore it. Faith faith faith."

But prove me wrong. Why is the judgement (where God judges us as if we were gods) neccesary at all, if we all are going to fail (unless we have that easy out)? Why not just judge us on whether or not we have accepted Jesus (you may believe this is how it is, but you would be wrong. Read the whole Bible).

 

[LilLamb219]

Sometimes it was an emotional booster (for Christians), sometimes there were sermons (like ones you talked about), but none of it had anything to do with me. Nothing was relatable, nothing was there to help me out. When I would talk to the pastor, the questions I had could not be answered. So, why waste my time?

Nothing related to you? How could your own salvation NOT relate to you? I think you're focusing too much on yourself and what God can give you now instead of looking to how much He has already given to you!

 

[LilLamb219]

The Jesus deal is an easy out. Normally, you would be judged and condemned by your actions, but believing Jesus let's you bypass that judgement. Why not just leave out the judgement?

Because we ALL deserve eternal punishment, that's why. Some people reject the work of the cross and think they can work their way to heaven. It is impossible to do, yet they will persist in thinking they're good enough.

The only one good enough is Jesus Christ who died so that we could be reconciled to God. THAT is why Christians believe in Him. That is why we have salvation. In my baptism I have been clothed in Christ's righteousness. On judgment day, God sees that clothing of Christ's righteousness and graciously gives me eternal life WITH HIM.

 

[lindamarie]

Did it ever occur to you that church isn't about the people who attend? Church is a place where we go to worship God...

In other words, like you going to the chili parlor to hang out with friends... I, go to church for a special timeset aside time to worship God...

Seek Him if you want to know... If you don't, why are you worrying about this?

 

[lindamarie]

I didn't say the above to be smart aleck... it just seems to me that you're either searching or playing, and I'm curious which it is...

 

[Exist]

Nothing related to you? How could your own salvation NOT relate to you? I think you're focusing too much on yourself and what God can give you now instead of looking to how much He has already given to you!

And if I don't believe that any gods exist, or that I am in need of salvation...? Then people telling me what their god wants me to do or how I could go about getting salvation is pointless. It has nothing to do with me, or my questions about Christianity. I don't worship any gods, so obviously church isn't a place for me.

And yet many Christians, even one in this thread, said that I should try church, knowing that I'm not a Christian.

it just seems to me that you're either searching or playing, and I'm curious which it is...

Well, I'm not playing.

 

[LilLamb219]

I don't worship any gods

If you aren't worshiping the one Triune God then you're looking to yourself and in a sense making yourself into your own god.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me even applies to us being selfish and focusing on the ME. When we put ourselves first, it means we cast aside God. By casting aside God, we, without even realizing it have made our own self into a mini-god; a false one.

 

[fwGod]

So, here's the deal. If I lived my life as I wanted, I couldn't get into heaven. Even if I want to live morally, and do so. Because even then, my life isn't good enough.

So answer, why isn't it good enough? Why are his standards so high for -his creation- that absolutely nobody passes?

man was at one time perfect before God. in the garden of eden before the fall.
but when adam and eve disobeyed.. following the suggestion of the serpent/devil, the father of disobedience.. man lost his place of perfection with God.. taking on the same nature of the devil whom he obeyed.

its like starting out with a flawless template.. that gets flawed. how useless it is for the flawed template to try and make itself flawless. it has no ability to get back into its former state without being remade by the one who made it.

Which makes me think of another question.

If nobody is righteous, no not one, then what happened with the Jews before Christianity? If they couldn't make it into heaven with those rules (apparently nobody can, that's why Jesus is "so important"), then did they all go to hell, even though they were doing what God told them to?

through abraham's faith, there was provided an upper part within what is commonly called hell.. for those who lived to please God.

And if they went to heaven, they why is Jesus neccesary?

the animals blood could give temporary covering for sins but none of the people were truly made right on the inside.

Jesus sinless sacrifice, provided total rebirth from inside.. the template if you will.. is totally made new.

Hah, which brings up yet another.

Some Christians say that those people in tribles in the jungles or men that live on mountains etc get judged on what they know, and how they live their life (which is a misinterpretation of the text)

for people of other ethnos.. they lived and were judged according to the same way that all those before abraham were accepted.
which to me clearly shows the mercy of God.. rather than saying that God is bad and cruel.

....then why bring in all this extra crap that I, and Atheist, cannot make myself believe? Why not just have the whole world know nothing, and (guess what) judge them on how they act? (that's kinda how we do it, judge people for what they do, and not who they know, and it's kinda working for us)

yes. people getting along with other people based on conditional conduct and behavior.
not exactly ideal and perfect.

And if you don't believe that (that people who've never heard of Jesus can get into heaven), then don't say anything about it. To me, those people are completely innocent, and there's nothing you can say to make me think your god is moral for giving them eternal punishment....just for being in the wrong place, wrong time.

i agree with you on that.

j

 

[linssue55]

So, here's the deal. If I lived my life as I wanted, I couldn't get into heaven. Even if I want to live morally, and do so. Because even then, my life isn't good enough.

So answer, why isn't it good enough? Why are his standards so high for -his creation- that absolutely nobody passes?

Which makes me think of another question.

If nobody is righteous, no not one, then what happened with the Jews before Christianity? If they couldn't make it into heaven with those rules (apparently nobody can, that's why Jesus is "so important"), then did they all go to hell, even though they were doing what God told them to?

And if they went to heaven, they why is Jesus neccesary?

Hah, which brings up yet another.

Some Christians say that those people in tribles in the jungles or men that live on mountains etc get judged on what they know, and how they live their life (which is a misinterpretation of the text)....then why bring in all this extra crap that I, and Atheist, cannot make myself believe? Why not just have the whole world know nothing, and (guess what) judge them on how they act? (that's kinda how we do it, judge people for what they do, and not who they know, and it's kinda working for us)

And if you don't believe that (that people who've never heard of Jesus can get into heaven), then don't say anything about it. To me, those people are completely innocent, and there's nothing you can say to make me think your god is moral for giving them eternal punishment....just for being in the wrong place, wrong time.

God would never do that, any more than He would allow a young child (that doesn't know about Him) to go to hell. Never!

All we need to do is simply, "Believe (that He is our savior) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou "SHALL BE SAVED". Period!

It is just that simple, we don't earn it, we don't deserve it, it is our gift, a gift with no strings. "For God so loved the world." And yet we (ALL) were sinners, He died for us". This means absolutely ALL of us, this is complete unconditional love. I know of NO-ONE in my life that loves me with such great intensity, enough to die for me. Unbelievable, but oh so true.

"By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: not of works, (we need do NOTHING) lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8,9).


The absolute favour of God can no more consist with human merit (works....what we do) than oil and water will fuse into one: see also Romans 4:4,5.

There are three principal characteristics of Divine grace. First, it is eternal. Grace was planned before it was exercised, purposed before it was imparted:

"Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, NOT according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" (2 Tim. 1:9).

Second, it is free, (like a gift at Christmas time) for none did ever purchase it: "Being justified freely by His grace" (Rom. 3:24).

Third, it is sovereign, because God exercises it toward and bestows it upon whom He pleases: "Even so might grace reign" (Rom. 5:21). If grace "reigns" then is it on the throne, and the occupant of the throne is sovereign. Hence "the throne of grace" (Heb. 4:16).

 

[fatpie42]

I love the way every reply to this post makes the presumption that Christianity is true. I think you are forgetting that there are many people who find Christianity almost anachronistic and so they are not starting from the perspective of 'Christianity is true, so how can I make sense of it?', but instead in terms of 'There are many different religions with various claims, so how is Christianity a better option than the others?'

Many people come away from this consideration thinking that Christianity has some seriously bad consequences if it is true. Why should someone who picked the wrong religion be doomed to eternal hell? In fact, why should someone who refused to make a choice and just decided to live life in a moral way be doomed to eternal hell?

Shouting out Bible passages assumes the truth of Christianity over any other religion and often it even forgets that at least three religions take the Old Testament as part of their scripture.

Why would a Christian God condemn those who don't believe in Christ's incarnation and death leading to their atonement? Is 'because that is a just action' really a sensible answer? Seriously?

 

[fatpie42]

God would never do that, any more than He would allow a young child (that doesn't know about Him) to go to hell. Never!

All we need to do is simply, "Believe (that He is our savior) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou "SHALL BE SAVED". Period!

This looks to be a contradiction. I a child that doesn't know about Christ doesn't go to hell. Why should anyone believe in Christ in order to avoid hell?

The big paradox here is that it sounds like I am better off never having heard of Christianity if I wish to enter heaven...

 

[bethdinsmore]

Some answers to your questions are in the CF wiki encyclopedia, in the articles entitled: [wiki]Possibility of salvation without knowledge of Christ's existence[/wiki] and [wiki]Salvation[/wiki]

Aloha in Jesus

 

[Exist]

If you aren't worshiping the one Triune God then you're looking to yourself and in a sense making yourself into your own god.

Thou shalt have no other gods before me even applies to us being selfish and focusing on the ME. When we put ourselves first, it means we cast aside God. By casting aside God, we, without even realizing it have made our own self into a mini-god; a false one.

Well, you can twist our words however you want, but no. I don't worship any gods. I don't believe in any gods. And I am a human, not a god, by definition.

And that's all I'm post in this thread now.

 

[fatpie42]

It is rather unfortunate that your page on Atonement doesn't yet explain the most common explanation: 'the satisfaction theory'.

I'm not surprised though. The satisfaction theory has never made an awful lot of sense....

 

[linssue55]

God would never do that, any more than He would allow a young child (that doesn't know about Him) to go to hell. Never!

All we need to do is simply, "Believe (that He is our savior) on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou "SHALL BE SAVED". Period!

This looks to be a contradiction. I a child that doesn't know about Christ doesn't go to hell. Why should anyone believe in Christ in order to avoid hell?

The big paradox here is that it sounds like I am better off never having heard of Christianity if I wish to enter heaven...

Because if a person does enter hell, they would have wished they had believed in time. Christianity is the best gift that man kind could ever recieve, because we do nothing but believe, then for all eternity we have the most unimaginable wondeful life that you or I can't even begin to concieve, and in time you or I will have someone that will NEVER let us down. Now that's love.