God created us without a way to stop sinning?

[Peace Keeper]

So you have talked about pretty much living a righteous life/ trying to stop certain sins/ giving it to God to help you with it because you WANT to change. What if you obey only out of fear? Is that wrong? Because the only way I was able to come to repentance was out of actual, literal fear :/

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. 17 Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. 18 Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me. Philippians 2:12-18 ESV

We must seek out our own salvation with fear and trembling, meaning we cannot change others so others cannot change us, it is our decision to walk with God and let Him work within us. The fear I believe is putting trust in God, knowing what He says is true and we must follow Him. Sometimes I think people focus on excuses and don't take it seriously so they are not serious when they repent (in the past I have probably been this way, but I am working toward trusting Him more and leaving it in God's hands and He is helping me). We must learn to follow God also in love though, it is a beautiful thing He did for us, making it possible where are sins and debts are completely washed clean when we turn our life over to Him and believe, He chooses to remember our sins no more and allow us to become new creations in Him, but we must learn to turn and sin no more.

 

[OutOfPlace_Christian]

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. 17 Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. 18 Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me. Philippians 2:12-18 ESV

We must seek out our own salvation with fear and trembling, meaning we cannot change others so others cannot change us, it is our decision to walk with God and let Him work within us. The fear I believe is putting trust in God, knowing what He says is true and we must follow Him. Sometimes I think people focus on excuses and don't take it seriously so they are not serious when they repent (in the past I have probably been this way, but I am working toward trusting Him more and leaving it in God's hands and He is helping me). We must learn to follow God also in love though, it is a beautiful thing He did for us, making it possible where are sins and debts are completely washed clean when we turn our life over to Him and believe, He chooses to remember our sins no more and allow us to become new creations in Him, but we must learn to turn and sin no more.

That is the verse I was thinking of. Thank you sister. You understand

 

[OutOfPlace_Christian]

The

12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing, 15 that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain. 17 Even if I am to be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrificial offering of your faith, I am glad and rejoice with you all. 18 Likewise you also should be glad and rejoice with me. Philippians 2:12-18 ESV

We must seek out our own salvation with fear and trembling, meaning we cannot change others so others cannot change us, it is our decision to walk with God and let Him work within us. The fear I believe is putting trust in God, knowing what He says is true and we must follow Him. Sometimes I think people focus on excuses and don't take it seriously so they are not serious when they repent (in the past I have probably been this way, but I am working toward trusting Him more and leaving it in God's hands and He is helping me). We must learn to follow God also in love though, it is a beautiful thing He did for us, making it possible where are sins and debts are completely washed clean when we turn our life over to Him and believe, He chooses to remember our sins no more and allow us to become new creations in Him, but we must learn to turn and sin no more.

The love part is obviously the part I am struggling with that is why I said I still do it out of FEAR.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I see where you misunderstood me The fear I speak of is not about the "storm" while Jesus is present. It is the fear of Jesus/God Himself.

Oh, I'm not sure I even thought about "what" you were afraid of, just being afraid... ...
Okay, then,
in the boat, during the storm (i.e. "LIFE?")
while the disciples of Jesus were so afraid of the storm, (and Jesus calmly was ASLEEP DURING IT), (and Jesus asked them WHY they were afraid, WHY they had such LITTLE FAITH)

(here's perhaps the most important aspect)
on the boat, during the storm, sure they were going to die,
WERE ANY OF THE DISCIPLES AFRAID OF JESUS ?

NO! GLORIOUSLY! They went and WOKE HIM UP ! (imagine going to WAKE JESUS FROM A SOUND SLEEP !!! (ever thought of this???)

And they cried out loud "HELP us MASTER! " ...... .... no, they certainly weren't afraid of Jesus,
....

 

[Peace Keeper]

That is the verse I was thinking of. Thank you sister. You understand

You're welcome. I believe it depends on what you mean with fear, sometimes when you are fearful you run and hide, but sometimes when you are fearful of punishment and that you won't enter into His presence you cry out to Him and ask Him to help you and forgive you and give you strength to overcome. I hope that makes sense lol

 

[Peace Keeper]

The

The love part is obviously the part I am struggling with that is why I said I still do it out of FEAR.

Yes sometimes that is a struggle until we truly understand how much He loves and cares for us and when we see the change happening in our lives, we serve Him with thanksgiving in our hearts. That is how I see it anyway.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Perfect Obedience" casts out, eliminates, all fear of judgment . Right ?

Or it would, if perfect obedience was possible.

For God, all things are possible. Even so, GOD is PERFECTLY OBEDIENT. (God NEVER sins)

 

[OutOfPlace_Christian]

Oh, I'm not sure I even thought about "what" you were afraid of, just being afraid... ...
Okay, then,
in the boat, during the storm (i.e. "LIFE?")
while the disciples of Jesus were so afraid of the storm, (and Jesus calmly was ASLEEP DURING IT), (and Jesus asked them WHY they were afraid, WHY they had such LITTLE FAITH)

(here's perhaps the most important aspect)
on the boat, during the storm, sure they were going to die,
WERE ANY OF THE DISCIPLES AFRAID OF JESUS ?

NO! GLORIOUSLY! They went and WOKE HIM UP ! (imagine going to WAKE JESUS FROM A SOUND SLEEP !!! (ever thought of this???)

And they cried out loud "HELP us MASTER! " ...... .... no, they certainly weren't afraid of Jesus,
....

Thank you I receive what you said and I hear you. My fear stems from a few things like reading certain scriptures (that I may have probably misunderstood) like Hebrews 10:26 and 10:29. That one hit me like a brick because I was still living in HEAVY sin even though I would try and walk with Jesus but the fear in me took over because I felt like I outraged the Spirit of grace and knowing how powerful Jesus/God is and that my eternal fate depends on them I start to obey out of fear not out of love. Those are just one of the many verses that have put me in place. And I guess also the fear of being left behind when Jesus comes back. I am basically the person described in 1John 4:18. Guilty

 

[OutOfPlace_Christian]

Yes sometimes that is a struggle until we truly understand how much He loves and cares for us and when we see the change happening in our lives, we serve Him with thanksgiving in our hearts. That is how I see it anyway.

Yeah. In the back of my mind the child in me wants to see Jesus telling me I had nothing to worry about that He still loves me anyway and just give me a gigantic hug. Forget making my day...It would make my entire life

 

[Peace Keeper]

Yeah. In the back of my mind the child in me wants to see Jesus telling me I had nothing to worry about that He still loves me anyway and just give me a gigantic hug. Forget making my day...It would make my entire life

He loves us, even when we were sinners, that is why He died for us. His desire though is for us not to stay in sin but seek Him for forgiveness and renewal and strength. He is our strength and He helps us not to live in our sinful nature, but we must die daily to self, giving up what the flesh desires, and follow His word and will. It is not an easy thing to do or go through, but that is why He is there to help us through!

 

[OutOfPlace_Christian]

 

[OutOfPlace_Christian]

He loves us, even when we were sinners, that is why He died for us. His desire though is for us not to stay in sin but seek Him for forgiveness and renewal and strength. He is our strength and He helps us not to live in our sinful nature, but we must die daily to self, giving up what the flesh desires, and follow His word and will. It is not an easy thing to do or go through, but that is why He is there to help us through!

Amen to that!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yes, and if you stay guilty(end of post 68), you should indeed and forever be afraid. So, do not stay guilty ! (it is simple, really)....
Jesus gave a way of hope,
a way of escape,
HE DIED
to make a way for us to LIVE.
So, if we do not stay guilty, we might live, without any fear; rather with Righteousness, Peace and JOY (TODAY; not sometime by and by).
BUt, if we stay guilty, then we die for our sin.... Instead of Jesus' Death counting for us.

 

[OutOfPlace_Christian]

Yes, and if you stay guilty(end of post 68), you should indeed and forever be afraid.
Jesus gave a way of hope,
a way of escape,
HE DIED
to make a way for us to LIVE.
So, if we do not stay guilty, we might live, without any fear; rather with Righteousness, Peace and JOY (TODAY; not sometime by and by).
BUt, if we stay guilty, then we die for our sin.... Instead of Jesus' Death counting for us.

Yes. Thank you I have to learn to let go of fear of punishment and let His perfect love drive out the fear. It's all part of the growing process

 

[Emmy]

Dear mikemack. God created us in His image, but in the Garden of Eden Satan outwitted Adam and Eve. But God Loves us and gave Man a second chance. We have a brain to think with, and a voice to say Yes or No. The Old Testament tells us what we did, and how we let our selfishness get the better of us. In Matthew 22: 35-40:
Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40 we are told: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." God is Love, and God wants loving sons and daughters.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," give up our selfish wishes and wants, and start loving and caring, be kind and always friendly. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus Christ our Saviour will lead us all the way:
JESUS IS THE WAY. We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour.
" Matthew 7: 7-10:" We might forget and stumble, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring.
A Christian`s weapon is love and joy, we overcome all anger and wrong behaviour with love and compassion.
Gradually we will change into the men and women which God wants us to be, and life will be God-pleasing and good.
We have a brain, let us use it to do God`s Will. I say this with love, mikemack. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Alawishis]

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

I understand your plight. I've had the same struggles, as many have. Some people give up and stop trying, that's what the enemy wants us to do. God has not called you and left you to fight sin on your own, you have to make sure you are including God in your battle. This is really what we have to learn. We have to learn to not fight this one our own , which is our tendency.

Think about it we've spend our entire lives learning how to sin. We've developed them into habits and they are deeply rooted into our desires. How do we change that over night? Think about it like making a path through a corn field. The first time through the field is hard but eventually going the same way you make a path. That path will always be much easier to traverse than fighting through the tall corn. The more you use a path the easier it is to travel.

True, there are some that are blessed with a complete victory over a particular sin the moment they accept Christ. We've all heard the stories, and perhaps know some people who have had the desire for something instantly removed from them. Why does that happen? Why aren't we all treated with the healing touch of our saviour and have the desire from all sins removed from us instantly when we ask Him? Even those that experience the instant removal of a sin, often if not always are left with some sins that then do not have removed instantly. Why is that? The reason as I see it is, the process of struggling and fighting and eventually gaining the victory is where we grow as followers of Christ. Simply it's good for us to fight and to learn to struggle and overcome. Because in that process is the secret to learning to surrender to God. When we try, as we always do, to face these on our own and to resist with our own power, we ultimately fail.

There is an excellent sermon series that I wish I had seen when I first became a Christian by David Asscherick called "A Friend of God" it's available on YouTube if you search, 'Asscherick "A Friend of God" ' I'll try and post a link but not sure if it will work.

 

[Neostarwcc]

In the last year I've watched as my faith has taken a large decline. It initially began over the idea of not being able to stop living a lust filled life (but that isn't what this question is about), and after talking to my girlfriend I realized there seems to be this huge hole in my knowledge about living as a sinner.

You see my girlfriend is a social worker, and constantly has to deal with patients who do not have the ability to properly reason. The idea that they need God is almost impossible for some of them to grasp. And the idea that they could stop the sinful ways they live? It's basically impossible. Like asking a potato to run.

Or I have a friend who was sexually abused growing up. He is a smart person, but his whole view on sexuality has completely been distorted. And we basically ask him to just "stop sinning"?

I don't understand it. I can understand a life living in pain, or without something. At least that has taught me something in my journey. But living a life of sin, where hope to remove it is essentially non existent? I don't understand how God can put us in that place. We didn't ask for these things to be part of our lives, they're just there. And we're told we need to remove them from our lives.

I apologize if this is repeating what others have said. But, the bible has explained this entire issue. Humanity was originally created without sin (Genesis 1:26). And was given only one commandment, don't eat from the tree of knowledge, and God warned us of the consequences of doing so (Genesis 2:17). Eve was then deceived by Satan into eating from the tree (Genesis 3:1-6) and man followed (Genesis 3:7). And the Lord was forced to curse humanity and Satan and sin was born (Genesis 3:14-19)

But, it is through Jesus Christ that we have hope. God promised us a savior, (Isaiah 53:1-12) delivered on that promise (Matthew 1:18-25) and it is through this savior that we are saved if we follow God's law, confess and repent our sins to God and accept our Lord Jesus Christ into our hearts (John 3:16) (Hebrews 10:26-27) (John 1:19)

Therefore, as long as you and your friends follow and obey or try to follow and obey the laws of the Lord and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, all of you will be saved and either sin no more, or be forgiven for your sins and the sins of humanity and have nothing to worry about. Ask, and it shall be given to you (Matthew 7:7)

Do not let sin and Satan consume you. Instead, focus on saving as many people as you can, Live as Jesus Christ did, and let Jesus Christ into your heart, and you have nothing to worry about.

 

[FoundInGrace]

What I want...is for God to help his children when they want to turn to Him.

He does.. He intervened in my life ... and freed me from things I thought I would never be free from. God is Merciful

 

[paul becke]

He loves us, even when we were sinners, that is why He died for us. His desire though is for us not to stay in sin but seek Him for forgiveness and renewal and strength. He is our strength and He helps us not to live in our sinful nature, but we must die daily to self, giving up what the flesh desires, and follow His word and will. It is not an easy thing to do or go through, but that is why He is there to help us through!

mikemack, it is good though, isn't it, that while Jesus very deliberately sought to avoid attracting those who would only seek him form fear (using their head), he was not too proud to use fear to save those whose hearts he discerned were basically, 'in the right place' ; in a sense, 'rough diamonds'. His judgment of us will be on our hearts, what we are prepare to give/give up, sacrifice, our preparedness to die to ourselves, our repeated acts of will, invoking his help.

We don't become good, chaste, whatever, by a single act of the will. Very far from it. Unfortunately ! Were it so, the Christian life would be a doddle, wouldn't it ? As Christians, we're all capable of the most exalted momentary aspirations ! Who would want to meet a brian -box like Dr Mengele in heaven, because it was just sensible to avoid hell !

Testosterone is a drug that just keeps giving, which makes it extra difficult for men, particularly young men, with hormones still raging. And of course with all the pornography, nay, fornication, on any family TV show, film, whatever, you have women's bodies, when not actually fornicating or simulating it, in suggestive poses, which seem to say to you : 'If you even consider in your mind copulating with me, you will be doing my owner a great favour. Not easy for young men. The Catholic church understands this, so, to the minds of many others, lays Catholics open to the accusation that they go to Confession and then just keep on committing their sins. It understands the imperative need of God's supernatural grace to avoid sinning again, so the act of contrition ends : 'And, with the help of your grace, I resolve never to sin again.'

'Never', of course is the interesting word. Never ? It's a strange position we are in. On the one hand, we know that we shall never be perfect in this life, never stop sinning all together ; and yet we also know that Jesus commanded us to be perfect, 'even as your heavenly Father is perfect.' But for that moment, it is important that we ask for the grace to sincerely WILL to be perfect in future, (just as you want to be), by that single act at that moment. If we did not invoke such grace, there would simply be no end to our backsliding. And, frankly, there is no source of absolution like that of the sacrament of Confession (for the purposes of this board, I will add, 'imo'). We don't have to go into needless details. When I say I was guilty of hatred or of vengeful thoughts, the priest doesn't need to hear my life history or a potted version of it. Or if I say I am unsure how quickly/(slowly!) I put away lustful/impure thoughts, He doesn't need me to describe my fantasies. I can't imagine they'd help his state of chastity !
I hope this hasn't come across as unhelpful rambling, and might be helpful to you, mikemack.

 

[huk945]

If we could stop sinning by ourselves then we wouldn't need Jesus Christ now would we???????????????????