God and Homosexuality

[Nazarene77]

There is no fixing to be done. If one truly loves someone, then one can be sexually attracted to that person regardless of wether or not that person is good-looking.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

This isn't about whether someone is good looking or not, this is about which gender is attractive or not.

By your own logic that means you, yourself can love someone of the same gender to the extent that you would be able to find that person sexually attractive.

Basically I agree that love can exist regardless of whether someone is good looking or not and that romantic love can be completely selfless, but that is bound by sexual orientation.

 

[Cecilia]

I don't want to get into an agruement here but in my mind, homosexuality is a sin. No doubts about that one. The Lord says that homosexuality is based on lust and we are told to "flee from lust". There you have it, in black and white.

 

[Nazarene77]

4th April 2003 at 06:41 PM Mechanical Bliss said this in Post #62 This isn't about whether someone is good looking or not, this is about which gender is attractive or not.

Yes, and attractiveness is all about physical attraction.

By your own logic that means you, yourself can love someone of the same gender to the extent that you would be able to find that person sexually attractive.

No, I would never go there even if I was a homosexual. I would learn to love those of the opposite sex.

Basically I agree that love can exist regardless of whether someone is good looking or not and that romantic love can be completely selfless, but that is bound by sexual orientation.

Nope, love is completely based on emotion. Nothing more.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

4th April 2003 at 07:54 PM Nazarene77 said this in Post #64

No, I would never go there even if I was a homosexual. I would learn to love those of the opposite sex.

Nice dodge.

By your own logic that means you yourself could learn to have an emotion attraction to the same sex to the point of being able to be sexually attracted to them.

Furthermore, a homosexual, by definition, cannot have romantic love for the same sex.

Nope, love is completely based on emotion. Nothing more.

It is indeed based upon sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is not simply physical attraction--it also deals with romantic love.

If it is purely based upon emotion, then that means by your logic you yourself can have romantic love for the same sex.

 

[Nazarene77]

4th April 2003 at 07:19 PM Mechanical Bliss said this in Post #65
Nice dodge.

By your own logic that means you yourself could learn to have an emotion attraction to the same sex to the point of being able to be sexually attracted to them.

Furthermore, a homosexual, by definition, cannot have romantic love for the same sex.

It is indeed based upon sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is not simply physical attraction--it also deals with romantic love.

If it is purely based upon emotion, then that means by your logic you yourself can have romantic love for the same sex.

Nope, that's not what I said. You're manipulating everything I just said.

The key here, for your sake, is avoiding homosexual sex encounters altogether regardless of how you feel.

Yes, a homosexual, by definition, cannot have romantic love for the same sex, but only lustful temptation. My point exactly.

Sexual orientation is exactly what it is, sexual, therefore having to do with sex and only sex.

And no, I cannot feel romantic love for the same sex because I wasn't born with such a disorder. You, however, have a problem that you need to get over.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

4th April 2003 at 08:32 PM Nazarene77 said this in Post #66

Nope, that's not what I said. You're manipulating everything I just said.

No, I'm not; I'm following through the logic.

Yes, a homosexual, by definition, cannot have romantic love for the same sex, but only lustful temptation. My point exactly.

Sorry, that was a typo on my part. It was meant to read "a homosexual, by definition, cannot have romantic love for the opposite sex".

A homosexual definitely can have romantic love for the same sex. To state otherwise is an insulting lie and complete misrepresentation of the reality of homosexuals' lives.

Sexual orientation is exactly what it is, sexual, therefore having to do with sex and only sex.

It's more than sexual. It's "sexual" in the sense of "gender" not simply the act of sexual intercourse.

A heterosexual cannot have romantic love for the same sex, but can for the opposite sex, because of his/her sexual orientation.

A homosexual cannot have romantic love for the opposite sex, but can for the same sex, because of his/her sexual orientation.

And no, I cannot feel romantic love for the same sex because I wasn't born with such a disorder. You, however, have a problem that you need to get over.

Contradictory.

If emotional love is boundless that means you must be able to have romantic love for the same sex and as a result be able to find the same sex physically attractive by your own logic.

If not, that means something else is at work here: namely, sexual orientation. Sexual orientation causes a person to have a preference toward one sex or the other.

Moreover, it's not a "disorder"--a fact agreed upon by every single medical and behavioral science institution in the country. They also agree that it is an inborn, innate trait that is unmalleable.

No, I don't have a problem I need to get over. The problem is yours: bigotry. You clearly have a dislike for not only homosexuality but homosexuals themselves and you have no problem generalizing about the group and insulting them excusing it as warranted by your interpretation of your religious text.

 

[Nazarene77]

Bliss, there is no bigotry here; there is no gay bashing. There is only good preaching. God hates the sin, but not the sinner and I feel the same way.

I don't see where you're getting this logic from. If you're not willing to listen to me and are only going to manipulate everything I say, then this discussion is pointless to continue.

To the others watching this thread: I don't seem to be getting through to Bliss. Perhaps someone else can give it at try. I'll go into being a quiet observer.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

4th April 2003 at 08:48 PM Nazarene77 said this in Post #68


I don't see where you're getting this logic from. If you're not willing to listen to me and are only going to manipulate everything I say, then this discussion is pointless to continue.

I'm not manipulating anything you say. I'm following your logic through because you seem unwilling to do that.

You said:

If one truly loves someone, then one can be sexually attracted to that person regardless of wether or not that person is good-looking.

and:

love is completely based on emotion.

That means that you yourself can have an emotional attraction and resulting physical attraction to someone of the same sex if love is limitless and based solely on emotion--not the preferred gender based upon sexual orientation.

If not, that means sexual orientation does play a role. A homosexual cannot have romantic love for the opposite sex just like a heterosexual cannot have romantic love for the same sex.

To say a homosexual cannot have emotional love without sex for a member of the same sex is simply not true. In that case there would be zero homosexual couples who are not having sex and zero homosexual couples whose love is based on emotion but instead all homosexual relationships purely on physical attraction alone. This is evidently not true.

Homosexuality works the same as heterosexuality with respect to romantic and physical love. The only difference is the gender to which that attraction is directed, determined innately by sexual orientation. That is to say, an orientation toward one gender over another (or in the case of bisexuals, no preference to one gender over another).

 

 

[Nazarene77]

Nope, it all comes down to having a certain brain disorder, which I don't have. But anyone is capable of loving someone of the opposite sex.

My only hope for you now is this. Follow this link and click on the first 1st search link. Make sure you either have RealPlayer, Quicktime, or Windows Media Player installed on your computer. This is the inspiring story of Musician Stephen Bennett who talks about his experience of coming out of the homosexual lifestyle.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

4th April 2003 at 10:08 PM Nazarene77 said this in Post #70

Nope, it all comes down to having a certain brain disorder, which I don't have.

Evidence of a "brain disorder"? None.

Homosexuality is not a disorder according to every single medical and behavioral science institution.

But anyone is capable of loving someone of the opposite sex.

I agree; just not romantic love.

If that is true that means that you yourself can have romantic love for the same sex because romantic love is emotional and not physical, and that that love can evolve into physical love. Otherwise you are being contradictory.

You are denying reality.

Homosexuals cannot have romanic love for the opposite sex because sexuality is not chosen...by definition.

Now if it is a "brain disorder" as you say, then your next statement is contradictory. Either it is or it isn't. A choice or not: and it isn't. I can not only say from personal experience, but I can also say based upon every single medical and behavioral science institution in the country.

My only hope for you now is this. Follow this link and click on the first 1st search link. Make sure you either have RealPlayer, Quicktime, or Windows Media Player installed on your computer. This is the inspiring story of Musician Stephen Bennett who talks about his experience of coming out of the homosexual lifestyle.

1. There is no homosexual lifestyle.

2. I can give you personal testimony from the vast majority of homosexuals who realize that they cannot change who they are.

Would homosexuals kill themselves if they could just simply change? No.

Does personal testimony constitute evidence? If so, what makes yours more valid than mine? Nothing.

Mine at least is less biased in the sense that I, and others, don't have a religious motivation to retreat into denial. Independent studies of "ex-gay" ministries show no "successful" conversions from homosexuals only attracted to the same sex who are now only attracted to the opposite sex. The only "successes" are those who are still attracted to the same sex, but are celibate, or were bisexual to begin with, or have sex with the opposite sex only by fantasizing about the same sex.

Sexual orientation is not malleable according to every single medical and behavioral science institution in the country and the vast majority of homosexuals via their own pesronal testimony.

 

[Job_38]

I agree, its a sin disorder.

 

[Freodin]

Nazarene77, there really is a contradiction in your argumentation. You asserted at various times that "true love" was not limited by gender, but on the other hand claimed that it could only exist between opposite genders. If that is not a contradiction, I don´t know.

 

[jayebrownlee]

this thread is merely going round in circles with no real debate happening. I therefore am going to close it.

Jay
CF Mod