God ALWAYS answers Prayer - Yes, NO or wait

[SavedByGrace3]

Again, I am not saying that we should ignore or discount any scripture. But we have to understand that some principles have more weight than others. Some do not even apply to us any longer. We have to decide if we are NT Christians and believers or are we OT servants?

Jesus clearly pointed out that there were some matters of the Law that were more important than others. He did not say to ignore the lesser matters, but just understand there are priorities.

Matthew 23:23 ISV
23 "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! For you give a tenth of your mint, dill, and cummin, but have neglected the more important matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the things you should have practiced, without neglecting the others.

There are aspects of the OT that just do not apply to us as believers. We are in a whole different life, relationship, fellowship, and covenant. Jesus has placed us far above anything they even dreamed of having. It is inconceivable that we would now reject this high and lofty calling for the superficial trappings of OT ritualism. We have all things that pertain to life and godliness because of Jesus. All the promises of God have been made yes and amen because of what Jesus did for us. How sad and tragic that we would allow ourselves to be talked out of this glorious life by the very same logic and reasoning that the Jews fell for! How sad that we would trample underfoot the body and suffering of our Lord by reverting back to a pre-law religion of mere theism!

It is my prayer that the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ may give to each of us a spirit of wisdom and understanding in the full experiencial knowledge of what it means to be in Christ. That we might walk in the light of His word and become all that He wants us to be. To the praise of His glory! In the name of Jesus!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

God apparently heard Paul's prayer in 2Cor. 12:7-9, but said "no" to Paul's request to remove the thorn, since it would be an occasion for Paul to rely on God's strength rather than his own.

Yes I for one have read the text hundreds of times in many versions and have yet to see the word "no".
Other threads have wore out this horse in proving that it was not a sickness... it was an angel from satan that went about stirring up trouble before Paul. And God did not say no... He said that the grace He had given Paul was sufficent.
We have to ask the question "sufficent to do what?"
Your answer will depend on your view of the gospel, the NT, and the present day ministry of the church.
I believe God was telling Paul that He had given Him grace to do the very thing he was asking for: to overcome his pride and then remove him(the angel of satan) using the power and authority available to every believer.
Others with a "lesser" veiw of the finished work of Christ might say that God had given him the "grace to endure" the hardships this angel from satan was causing.
It all depends on your view of Christ, redemption, the power and authority of the church, and what "grace" means.
Did He intend for us to overcome the world or merely endure it?
Does Christ rule with all things beneath His feet or not?
I believe He does!

 

[razzelflabben]

To say that we need to put a different weight on the different scriptures, is like saying that God has changed. Yet the bible says that God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jesus taught from the OT, that was the written authority that he used througout His ministry. We are no longer under the law but the law still has a whole heap to teach us today. Take the offerings for example. When we study the offerings, we have a much clearer understanding of what God expects from out lives and what God's death means and ment. When we visualize what it would be like to make that sacrifice, scriptures like becomeing a "living sacrifice" become a real, tangable teaching rather than a hollow beautiful sentiment. We must understand the imagry in the OT in relation to the history and we must understand the OT and NT and how they work together or we fail to see the God who inspired both works.

XXYes I for one have read the text hundreds of times in many versions and have yet to see the word "no".XX

I have been reading a lot of posts on Paul's thorn in the flesh lately and I must say that I am still very confused by some of the teaching. In my many years of study (I will reserve the right to not specify how many, many years), I have never once found a contridiction in the scriptures. On occasion, I had to spend a large amount of time searching, but never found a hole that couldn't be filled. So here is the hole I can't close with your teaching, please explain. Grace according to the Bible is a free gift from God. Nothing man can do brings about grace. It is God's way of freeing man from the curse of sin. If Paul didn't accept God's grace and thus the thorn was left, then all of Paul's teachings and understanding of God are worthless. If Paul needed to do something, or apply grace, then grace is not a free gift from God. Either way, there is a huge hole that needs filled and the best way to fill such a hole is to actually study the scriptures for yourself and see how they all fit together. The bottom line, God gave Paul the grace, the free gift to deal with the thorn in the flesh and yet the thorn remained. We can either leave the hole and say that God is not enough, or we can fill the hole with other scriptures that speak about suffering and the curses God placed on man, and see a loving God that even though He is harsh and just, is gracious enough to strengthens us for the long journey called life.

 

[razzelflabben]

John 16:32-33 "But a time is coming and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my father is with me. I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Notice Jesus says that He has overcome the world but He also says that this world brings with it trouble that we will not escape. But He has overcome it, it is an accomplished fact, not a work in progress. It is He that has overcome the world not man or anything that man does.

 

[victoryword]

John 16:32-33 "But a time is coming and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my father is with me. I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

Notice Jesus says that He has overcome the world but He also says that this world brings with it trouble that we will not escape. But He has overcome it, it is an accomplished fact, not a work in progress. It is He that has overcome the world not man or anything that man does.

It is true that Jesus has overcome on our behalf. However, we are not told to sit around passive as if we will automatically walk in the light of Jesus' victory.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:4-5)

It takes an active FAITH in order to walk in that "overcoming of the world" reality wrought by Jesus. If this overcoming of the world that Jesus has done were automatically attributed to us then there would be no need for the above passage nor the ones that warn us about conformity to the world, not loving the world, and friendship with the world.

Thank God that the Bible is its own interpreter.

 

[razzelflabben]

Overcoming does not mean free from but rather that the world holds no control over us. I had the priveldge of knowing a dear lady who suffered much with cancer. Anyone and everyone who met her knew without doubt that the earthly disease had NO control over her, because God had set her free and those whom God sets free are free indeed. This is not a passive belief or passive understanding but rather a very active radical approach to a harsh world that God has cursed. It requires a faith that extends beyond physical comforts. It requires a faith that understands that no matter what happens, God is the Commander and Cheif of everything and that nothing that happens is outside His permission or power. When we understand this kind of faith we begin so understand a God that loves us so much that He gave His only son, not for our comfort, but rather that we could fellowship with Him. It appears that again we see a pendulum swing, God is definately interested in the physical and can and often does heal us from the curses that He gave the earth and man, however, it is not consisant with scripture to assume that we are given permission and authority to do away with the curse, anymore than Noah was allowed to stop the flood (God given curse) or Abraham was alowed to change the fate of Sodom and Gohmorra (sp?) (God given curse) by pleading for the people. You will argue that these were because they were a sinnful people. Read the scriptures, so are we. Even those who love and worship God fall into sin. That is why we need to read the law, so we can understand where and how we sin against God and how often we "recrusify" Christ. Let us start this study in the NT book of Romans.

 

[look]

This is not a passive belief or passive understanding but rather a very active radical approach to a harsh world that God has cursed.

Um, where does it say God cursed the world? Just asking...

 

[Unix]

If God would always answer prayer it would be ridiculous - all christians would live happy ever after

 

[SavedByGrace3]

If God would always answer prayer it would be ridiculous - all christians would live happy ever after

Yea.... it is great!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

If God would always answer prayer it would be ridiculous - all christians would live happy ever after

We are'nt?

 

[victoryword]

If God would always answer prayer it would be ridiculous - all christians would live happy ever after

YEAH!!! You tell'em man! Why would God want people living happily ever after. That's the stuff made up of fairy tales.
It's just like that fairy tale dream of one day seeing your prince riding in a white horse.

Oops, wait a minute:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True ... (Rev. 19:11)

Uh, nevermind ....

 

[razzelflabben]

Um, where does it say God cursed the world? Just asking...

Genesis, fall of man, sin entered the world and God cursed man and the earth as a result of that sin, ring a bell??? Basic to understanding why Christ died on the cross and rose from the grave. What Bible do you read? What belief do you hold to that even the very basic understanding of God and our world is gone???????????????? The earth was cursed and death entered the perfect world in addition, it would no longer bear Gen 3:17 "...cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;..."

 

[razzelflabben]

YEAH!!! You tell'em man! Why would God want people living happily ever after. That's the stuff made up of fairy tales.
It's just like that fairy tale dream of one day seeing your prince riding in a white horse.

Oops, wait a minute:


Uh, nevermind ....

Why do we allow the pendulum to swing so far and assume that just because some of us are saying that God does not wipe out the curse He placed on man and the earth in this life on earth, that we are also saying that God cannot and does not heal, relieve poverty, etc. If this is not what you are saying, I appologize but it is what it sounds like to me. I have not read a post yet, though I know of some who believe this, that God is not at all concerned with the physical. What we are saying is that our only entitelment is death. Seperation from sin. Anything else that we are given, is grace. The only form of grace that must be accepted is salvation. All other grace is shown to believers and non believers alike. That is why there are non believers who are wealthy, and healthy. It is not a question of whether or not God can deliver from these things but where our focus is. If we focus all our attention on earthly things, we totally miss God. He tells us in His word that His ways are not our ways. He also says that now we see through a glass dimmly (not clear understanding) but when we are face to face with God we will see clearly. (If I wasn't so rushed for time right now I would look up the scripture references but I will leave that to you this time) We can't understand why God does everything He does, the way He does it. Read any of the prophets, or men and women of God throughout scripture. But we do have to believe and have faith that He is still God. That His word is still true whether I understand it or not, whether I like what it says or not.

 

[victoryword]

Why do we allow the pendulum to swing so far and assume that just because some of us are saying that God does not wipe out the curse He placed on man and the earth in this life on earth, that we are also saying that God cannot and does not heal, relieve poverty, etc.

It is not just a matter of saying that God might do the above based on some sovereign whim which is what is often promoted in many of the posts I read. Furthermore, many of you who claim that God does heal, bring poverty relief, etc. teach that this is done selectively, as if prayer does not REALLY play a factor in it. If prayer is not able to bring changes then one cannot have any confidence in any part of the Scriptures. Take notice of the next line in your post:

What we are saying is that our only entitelment is death. Seperation from sin. Anything else that we are given, is grace. The only form of grace that must be accepted is salvation. All other grace is shown to believers and non believers alike. That is why there are non believers who are wealthy, and healthy.

You see what you are saying here? This is what I am strongly against. You claim that all we are entitled to is death and seperation from sin. This is based on nothing more than a bias theological perspective. Your view has nothing whatsoever to do with what the Bible teaches. The Christian is entitled, by virtue of God's promises, to have every prayer answered that does not deviate from His Word. Here are just a FEW of the many promises God has made to answer prayer (with a YES!!!)

For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. (Matt. 7:8)

If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. (John 14:14)

If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. (James 1:5)

And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. (James 5:7)

One definition of a promise as given in Webster's dictionary is "a legally binding declaration that gives the person to whom it is made a right to expect or to claim the performance or forbearance of a specified act." So if God has made the above promises and I am not entitled to them and if there are limitations other than what He He has stated and if He could choose not to fulfill any of these promises due to a sovereign mood swing, then not one part of the Bible can be trusted.

Thank God I do not believe that. I believe that those who do have a sad life.

It is not a question of whether or not God can deliver from these things but where our focus is. If we focus all our attention on earthly things, we totally miss God. He tells us in His word that His ways are not our ways. He also says that now we see through a glass dimmly (not clear understanding) but when we are face to face with God we will see clearly. (If I wasn't so rushed for time right now I would look up the scripture references but I will leave that to you this time) We can't understand why God does everything He does, the way He does it. Read any of the prophets, or men and women of God throughout scripture. But we do have to believe and have faith that He is still God.

Again you are speaking philosophically rather than scripturally. God does not just "brag" about what He can do, throw it in our faces, but then intentionally withhold from us. That is not a "God" as the Bible declares our God to be. That sounds like more of a description of Satan, whose power has been destroyed anyway so he is left with nothing but bragging.

God declares His ability because He wants us to be confident that He is able to do it on our behalf.

Some of you want to promote this view of God's sovereignty that does not line up with the full revelation He has given us of Himself, yet, when you cannot explain certain things you want to throw up this stuff about "we cannot understand why he does things the way He does." It could be that we don't understand this philosophical reasoning because it is unscriptural.

God has promised to answer YES to all prayers that are based on His Word and His promises (John 15:7; 1 Cor. 1:20). End of story.

 

[Unix]

didaskalos, Quaffer, victoryword
Obviously none of you understood what I meant. I'm sorry but english is not my mothers tongue
What I meant was: If all christians would get all prayers answered then all christians would have no problems with anything

 

[Unix]

I read through your post. I belive those same things as you do

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

didaskalos, Quaffer, victoryword
Obviously none of you understood what I meant. I'm sorry but english is not my mothers tongue
What I meant was: If all christians would get all prayers answered then all christians would have no problems with anything

..............................

We know what you meant We was playin'.

 

[victoryword]

didaskalos, Quaffer, victoryword
Obviously none of you understood what I meant. I'm sorry but english is not my mothers tongue
What I meant was: If all christians would get all prayers answered then all christians would have no problems with anything

Slotte

Sorry about the misunderstanding

 

[razzelflabben]

XXYou see what you are saying here? This is what I am strongly against. You claim that all we are entitled to is death and seperation from sin. This is based on nothing more than a bias theological perspective. Your view has nothing whatsoever to do with what the Bible teaches. The Christian is entitled, by virtue of God's promises, to have every prayer answered that does not deviate from His Word. Here are just a FEW of the many promises God has made to answer prayer (with a YES!!!)XX

Rom. 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
This says, our only entitlement is death unless of course you would have us believe that you have never sinned, then let me point you to Rom. 3:22-24 "This rightiousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
If this basic teaching in scripture is not comfortable to you, that is exactly the point the truth is not always comfortable. We are not denying the promises of God. When our focus is on Godly things, these promises are carried out and our prayers are always answered yes. The problem is when we focus our prayers on physical demands rather than Godly eternal matters and our relationship with Christ. Each of the verses you quote, when read in context, speak of the eternal needs. Jesus wants our focus on Him not our worldly, worries, concerns and cares. Matt. 6:25-34

 

[razzelflabben]

XXYou see what you are saying here? This is what I am strongly against. You claim that all we are entitled to is death and seperation from sin. This is based on nothing more than a bias theological perspective. Your view has nothing whatsoever to do with what the Bible teaches. The Christian is entitled, by virtue of God's promises, to have every prayer answered that does not deviate from His Word. Here are just a FEW of the many promises God has made to answer prayer (with a YES!!!)XX

Rom. 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
This says, our only entitlement is death unless of course you would have us believe that you have never sinned, then let me point you to Rom. 3:22-24 "This rightiousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
If this basic teaching in scripture is not comfortable to you, that is exactly the point the truth is not always comfortable. We are not denying the promises of God. When our focus is on Godly things, these promises are carried out and our prayers are always answered yes. The problem is when we focus our prayers on physical demands rather than Godly eternal matters and our relationship with Christ. Each of the verses you quote, when read in context, speak of the eternal needs. Jesus wants our focus on Him not our worldly, worries, concerns and cares. Matt. 6:25-34
Prayer is not just one way communication and when we communicate with God and allow His H.S. to answer, we hear much more than a simple yes.