God & Allah?

[porterross]

Jesus is crystal clear on the matter.

John 14:6-7

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me."
"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."

Read all of John 14 again to see what He says about the world's inability to know He is God. This holds true for reception of the Holy Spirit, as well, which makes it easy to distinguish between those who know God and those who worship a man-made god, like the one of Muhammed's design.

Consider the similarities between the god Muslims worship and the one Joseph Smith created for the Mormons. Just like Jehovah's Witnesses; if they deny Jesus is God, they are worshipping a false god.

 

[ezekielle]

What is the difference between God and the Muslim god? It seems like there are a lot of similarities between the Qur'an and the Bible.

The difference between Yahweh and Ba'al. Allah is an ancient pagan god of the Ishmaelites (Judges 8:21,26 I Kings 18:27,28 - compare with 'ashoura' and islamic crescent moon).

Judaism and Christianity both worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Islam was brought into the world almost 3,000 years after Judaism and 700 years after Christianity for the purpose of destroying and replacing both.

Islam believes that the worst possible sin one can commit is to believe that allah has a son. They believe that Jesus was just another prophet, that He did NOT die on the cross, that He did NOT rise again and that He does NOT offer atonement for sin.

There is a HUGE difference between Yahweh and allah. "Allah" is derived from the word, "Elohim" which is not God's name. It is a word denoting A divinity and was even used for the Babylonian pantheon. Elohim is god with a little 'g' -- A god. Yahweh is the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

The god (elohim) of Judaism and Christianity is YAHWEH.
The god (elohim) of Islam is A god (elohim, or its derivitive, "allah").

Muhammad's father was a pagan priest named, "Abdullah" or Abdallah. He served the pagan gods his entire life and was even named for them. Before Muhammad was even born, his father was named Abdullah, which translates literally, "slave of allah."

So, if Muhammad introduced the name of the one true god after his visions - why does that god have the same name, crescent moon symbols, and practices as the pagan god his father was named after and served all his life?

Ah.... Satan does indeed prowl the earth seeking whom he may deceive and destroy. And islam is his masterpiece.

 

[sealacamp]

Ah.... Satan does indeed prowl the earth seeking whom he may deceive and destroy. And islam is his masterpiece.

A counterfeit among counterfeits! Does anyone find it troubling that with violence the people of Islam want to silence and eliminate all Christians from the world? There was a very recent event in Dearborn Michigan and those that claimed they wanted to answer questions became violent when asked those questions.

Some of you may want to take a look at this. Here are some brave Christians as far as I am concerned.

YouTube - Arab Festival 2009: Sharia in the US

Sealacamp

 

[AlabamaStreetPreacher]

I think the bible is pretty clear that Islam would come back to haunt us at some point. They fully believe they are Ismael's descendants... so do I.

Genesis 16:11-12 ESV

And the angel of the Lord said to her, “Behold, you are pregnant
and shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
because the Lord has listened to your affliction.


He shall be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.”

 

[NIF]

I think the bible is pretty clear that Islam would come back to haunt us at some point. They fully believe they are Ismael's descendants... so do I.

Genesis 16:11-12 ESV

And the angel of the Lord said to her, “Behold, you are pregnant
and shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,
because the Lord has listened to your affliction.


He shall be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand against everyone
and everyone's hand against him,
and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.”

I've read much of the Koran and I agree that the God in the Koran is different in many ways from the Christian God since Muhammad obviously contradicts several of Jesus' teachings.

However, a "Muslim" that follows Jesus' teachings of mercy and compassion is more of a Christian than a Christian who claims to follow Jesus but contradicts Christ's teachings.

I would also like to add that Christ (and the Book of Daniel) had some of the harshest words for the Pharisee's (apostate Judaism)--he never, to my knowledge, warned us directly about Islam or Ismael's descendants. Jesus also warned, emphatically, warned his followers about the false teachings of the Jews (Pharisees) (Mathew 16-5:12).

The Talmud (the Jewish scripture) has far harsher words directed toward Jesus and non Jews than the Koran does.

"He and his disciples practiced sorcery and black magic, led Jews astray into idolatry, and were sponsored by foreign, gentile powers for the purpose of subverting Jewish worship (Sanhedrin 43a)."

"He was sexually immoral, worshipped statues of stone (a brick is mentioned), was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness, and refused to repent (Sanhedrin 107b; Sotah 47a)."

"He learned witchcraft in Egypt and, to perform miracles, used procedures that involved cutting his flesh, which is also explicitly banned in the Bible (Shabbos 104b)."

"Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."


and Verses in the Talmud about Non-Jews


"Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows."

 

[sealacamp]

However, a "Muslim" that follows Jesus' teachings of mercy and compassion is more of a Christian than a Christian who claims to follow Jesus but contradicts Christ's teachings.

You either follow Christ or you don't. That is what makes a Christian nothing more nothing less. Someone who doesn't believe in Christ as Gods son and savior of the world but follows His moral guide lines is still not a Christian according to what the bible teaches us. Splitting hairs in a worldly way merely presents stumbling blocks to those that don't know the scriptures and doesn't follow them. What you have said is incorrect from Gods point of view according to His word. Either someone has surrendered to Christ or they have not. If they have not they can not be a Christian. Rather they are a rebel.

Sealacamp

 

[Hentenza]

Islam teaches that Jesus was a mere prophet and that He will be returning as basically the Islam Mahdi's helper. Apples and oranges. Jesus is God and those that do not believe in Jesus have a false God.

Islam and Christianity teach much different truths. Only one can be right.

 

[NIF]

You either follow Christ or you don't. That is what makes a Christian nothing more nothing less. Someone who doesn't believe in Christ as Gods son and savior of the world but follows His moral guide lines is still not a Christian according to what the bible teaches us. Splitting hairs in a worldly way merely presents stumbling blocks to those that don't know the scriptures and doesn't follow them. What you have said is incorrect from Gods point of view according to His word. Either someone has surrendered to Christ or they have not. If they have not they can not be a Christian. Rather they are a rebel.

Sealacamp

This is an important issue. But is there a proper forum or thread to continue this discussion?

What I have said is not incorrect from a biblical point of view. Of course, all of "God's lost sheep" will eventually hear his voice and come to him, and grow in his word. Not everybody has perfect knowledge in this lifetime, but anyone can choose to obey (or disobey) Christ's teachings. Jesus also warns that there are those who use his name, claim to have surrendered to him, but nonetheless, are not 'his'. Perhaps my view is somewhat compatible with predestination, but again, that is a side issue that we (or anyone else) can discuss more in another thread.

 

[Simon_Templar]

This is an important issue. But is there a proper forum or thread to continue this discussion?

What I have said is not incorrect from a biblical point of view. Of course, all of "God's lost sheep" will eventually hear his voice and come to him, and grow in his word. Not everybody has perfect knowledge in this lifetime, but anyone can choose to obey (or disobey) Christ's teachings. Jesus also warns that there are those who use his name, claim to have surrendered to him, but nonetheless, are not 'his'. Perhaps my view is somewhat compatible with predestination, but again, that is a side issue that we (or anyone else) can discuss more in another thread.

When you say that all of God's lost sheep will eventually come to him, do you mean in the sense of those whom God has predestined (ie a select group), or do you mean in a universal sense that all people will eventually be saved?

What sticks out to me in your comments thus far is the emphasis you place on Jesus' teachings. This is not uncommon in the western Church, especially the evangelical protestant church. There is a strong tendancy to reduce Christianity to a set of moralistic teachings which are the way to God and to heaven.
This, however, is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Christian faith. It is fairly common for people to miss this point. Jesus' teachings are not the way. Jesus himself is the way.

I do not wish to de-emphasize the things Jesus taught because they are indispensible, however, they must not be understood as a set of rules that if followed lead to divine reward.
It is only through relationship with Christ and through him with the Father that we receive eternal life. It is only through communion with Christ and with the Father that we are truly saved.

The moral teachings and religious teachings of Jesus and the apostles are important because they help us to see God's nature and they help us to see ourselves, and what we must become if we want to truly know and experience God.
It is, however, perfectly possible to follow the teachings scrupulously and never know Jesus Christ at all.

 

[JustAsIam77]

Islam teaches that Jesus was a mere prophet and that He will be returning as basically the Islam Mahdi's helper. Apples and oranges. Jesus is God and those that do not believe in Jesus have a false God.

Islam and Christianity teach much different truths. Only one can be right.

Amen! Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. No one comes unto the Father except through Him.

 

[sealacamp]

What I have said is not incorrect from a biblical point of view.

However, a "Muslim" that follows Jesus' teachings of mercy and compassion is more of a Christian than a Christian who claims to follow Jesus but contradicts Christ's teachings.

A muslim that follows Jesus' teachings but denies that He is the son of God is not a Christian. Better or worse Christian is irrelevant since that person is not a Christian in the first place. God has the final say over the matter and He said through His son:

But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.

Your statement is incorrect. And if you need to direct someone to another forum area to discuss something you brought up then perhaps you need to address this issue in the area you are directing a person toward. Your statement is incorrect.

Sealacamp

 

[NIF]

When you say that all of God's lost sheep will eventually come to him, do you mean in the sense of those whom God has predestined (ie a select group), or do you mean in a universal sense that all people will eventually be saved?

What sticks out to me in your comments thus far is the emphasis you place on Jesus' teachings. This is not uncommon in the western Church, especially the evangelical protestant church. There is a strong tendancy to reduce Christianity to a set of moralistic teachings which are the way to God and to heaven.
This, however, is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Christian faith. It is fairly common for people to miss this point. Jesus' teachings are not the way. Jesus himself is the way.

I do not wish to de-emphasize the things Jesus taught because they are indispensible, however, they must not be understood as a set of rules that if followed lead to divine reward.
It is only through relationship with Christ and through him with the Father that we receive eternal life. It is only through communion with Christ and with the Father that we are truly saved.

The moral teachings and religious teachings of Jesus and the apostles are important because they help us to see God's nature and they help us to see ourselves, and what we must become if we want to truly know and experience God.
It is, however, perfectly possible to follow the teachings scrupulously and never know Jesus Christ at all.

Hi Simon_Templar,
When I say all of God's sheep will come to him, I think I'm talking about a form of "predestination". Personally though, I don't think that God created one group of people to be with him forever, and another group to be destroyed. There is a parable Jesus gives talking about how God planted good seeds and the evil one came along and sowed weeds (evil people?). The farmer (God), will eventually pick up the weeds and destroy them when the time is right.

I don't think I have the wisdom to do Justice to your second point, but I do have some thoughts. Yes, I'm from a Western tradition that emphasizes his teachings.

Jesus' teachings, and Jesus himself...the word in the flesh, are interwoven and difficult, perhaps impossible, to separate (see opening verses of John). Jesus and his teaching/principles predate time and the universe as we know it. He and his teachings are in a specific sense, everything good and just that pervades life. That why he is the truth and the way, because without him, by definition, there is nothing good.

"It is, however, perfectly possible to follow the teachings scrupulously and never know Jesus Christ at all"

It is logically possible, though I don't know if it is practical. It is logically possible for one to build an automaton that follows all of Jesus' but does not 'know' him (because it has no consciousness).

 

[Simon_Templar]

Hi Simon_Templar,
When I say all of God's sheep will come to him, I think I'm talking about a form of "predestination". Personally though, I don't think that God created one group of people to be with him forever, and another group to be destroyed. There is a parable Jesus gives talking about how God planted good seeds and the evil one came along and sowed weeds (evil people?). The farmer (God), will eventually pick up the weeds and destroy them when the time is right.

I don't think I have the wisdom to do Justice to your second point, but I do have some thoughts. Yes, I'm from a Western tradition that emphasizes his teachings.

Jesus' teachings, and Jesus himself...the word in the flesh, are interwoven and difficult, perhaps impossible, to separate (see opening verses of John). Jesus and his teaching/principles predate time and the universe as we know it. He and his teachings are in a specific sense, everything good and just that pervades life. That why he is the truth and the way, because without him, by definition, there is nothing good.

"It is, however, perfectly possible to follow the teachings scrupulously and never know Jesus Christ at all"

It is logically possible, though I don't know if it is practical. It is logically possible for one to build an automaton that follows all of Jesus' but does not 'know' him (because it has no consciousness).

What I'm talking about is the difference between knowledge OF and knowledge ABOUT. You can learn a lot ABOUT Jesus from reading and sitting in sermons (or even academic classes) but the only way you can gain knowledge OF Jesus is through relationship with him.

To put it in more 'down to earth' terms. Imagine for a moment that you are a big fan of Rick Warren (I just picked a random popular teacher you can insert anyone). You read all Rick Warren's books, you read all about his life, you strive to follow his life philosophy etc. But you have never actually met, or spoken to Rick Warren...

In the case above do you actually know Rick Warren? or do you just know about him? (edit add.. even more importantly does he know you?)

In more theological terms Ravi Zacharias ( a popular evangelical apologist and teacher) put it this way.
The halmark of manmade religion is that it sets out a set of moral rules which if followed will lead to divine reward.
This is the basic formula that all human religions follow. If you view Christianity that way it becomes quite literally almost indistinguishable from Islam, or Budhism and most other religions. There are a few philosophical and metaphysical differences maybe but they really become shockingly similar.
The halmark of divine religion is that it begins by calling us into relationship, into communion with the divine, and expects that transformation of life and character will flow out of that communion.

If you'd like to read a couple of good books that address some of these ideas, I highly recommend The Grand Weaver, and Jesus among other gods, both by Ravi Zacharias.

The distinction can sometimes be subtle between those two ways of viewing the Faith, but in the end the results are worlds apart.

 

[CADude12]

What I'm talking about is the difference between knowledge OF and knowledge ABOUT. You can learn a lot ABOUT Jesus from reading and sitting in sermons (or even academic classes) but the only way you can gain knowledge OF Jesus is through relationship with him.

To put it in more 'down to earth' terms. Imagine for a moment that you are a big fan of Rick Warren (I just picked a random popular teacher you can insert anyone). You read all Rick Warren's books, you read all about his life, you strive to follow his life philosophy etc. But you have never actually met, or spoken to Rick Warren...

In the case above do you actually know Rick Warren? or do you just know about him? (edit add.. even more importantly does he know you?)

In more theological terms Ravi Zacharias ( a popular evangelical apologist and teacher) put it this way.
The halmark of manmade religion is that it sets out a set of moral rules which if followed will lead to divine reward.
This is the basic formula that all human religions follow. If you view Christianity that way it becomes quite literally almost indistinguishable from Islam, or Budhism and most other religions. There are a few philosophical and metaphysical differences maybe but they really become shockingly similar.
The halmark of divine religion is that it begins by calling us into relationship, into communion with the divine, and expects that transformation of life and character will flow out of that communion.

If you'd like to read a couple of good books that address some of these ideas, I highly recommend The Grand Weaver, and Jesus among other gods, both by Ravi Zacharias.

The distinction can sometimes be subtle between those two ways of viewing the Faith, but in the end the results are worlds apart.

Wow, Simon. Your posts have really gotten good after all these months. I've read a few of them already. This one is really good.

 

[okteach5]

The word Allah is a translation for the word God in arabic. I am a Catholic arab and in our language we say Allah in reference to our christian God, just as the moslems say Allah in reference to that same God.

and they do believe the He is the same God that we believe in.

They do not believe in the same God, because they do not believe in the TRIUNE God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. How can they believe in the same God, if they do not believe that Jesus is the Savior.

 

[Sketcher]

I can sum it up like this: Our God is heroic and personal, willing to get his hands dirty to rescue his people. Allah is too regal to do that, according to the Muslims. Coming down to earth to save sinners is beneath him, according to them.

 

[Sketcher]

They do not believe in the same God, because they do not believe in the TRIUNE God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. How can they believe in the same God, if they do not believe that Jesus is the Savior.

They're deceived about God, though they call on his name.

 

[lordworshipper]

What is the difference between God and the Muslim god? It seems like there are a lot of similarities between the Qur'an and the Bible.

Allah is arabic for God, its the same thing. Though like with the Jewish view of him, its just different from the way we see him.

Judaism and Christianity are two sides of the same coin and are complementary.

Islam is simply paganism dressed up in the garb and language of monotheism.

A Muslim says "God is God". Nero could have said the same.

Do you know anything about Islam? I had to learn about it because it tied into my courses. And remember it does say, "do not bear false witness"
and no matter how much we disagree with their religion we should not lie about it.

Wicca isn't satan worship, and we can say that. It won't get you to heaven, but we don't lie about Wicca, so why make up stuff about Islam?

There is actually more differences between Christianity and Judaism than Christianity and Islam. One notable difference is the view of Satan. We and the muslims see satan as evil, Jews do not. They see him as god's angel whose job is to test people to try to make them fail, so that it can be seen how well they are resisting temptation. Thats one.

There are others as well.

 

[Albion]

1) The Bible and the Koran are actually not very similar. They are quite different in nature, composition, and teachings, even if Mohammad did borrow some terminology and ideas from both Christianity and Judaism.

2) Christianity and Judaism are more closely related--by far--than are Christianity and Islam.

 

[Zeena]

Why, only the most beautiful and deceptive angel there ever was...namely Lucifer.

Yea-lol

I think this is the clincher;

"For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between."

Ephesians 2:2b
..the prince of the power of the air..