ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
You don't understand Islam nor Calvinism.
Islam is highly pelagian, their view states that human beings are neither good nor bad. If anything your RCC view is closer to theirs than ours.
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God & Allah?
- Thread starter zamkat
- Start date
You don't understand Islam nor Calvinism.
Islam is highly pelagian, their view states that human beings are neither good nor bad. If anything your RCC view is closer to theirs than ours.
ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
No where does scripture state we are inclined to do good. Why do we even need a savior then based on your own view?
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sealacamp
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Absolutely! In fact it is clearly indicated that we all fall short and have an inherant sinful nature that needs to be subjected to the will of God for refinement and control. Controlling ourselves is beyond us. Jesus clarified who is really good when he said:
It is clear that none of us are good, there are no good people only a good God. Allah is certainly not good nor is he a god. There is only one God and His son is Jesus Christ the only way to salvation. There is nothing equitable between the koran and the bible neither is there anything equitable between God and allah who isn't even a god at all.
Sealacamp
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Albion
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Despite the POV expressed in the OP, there are NOT a lot of similarities between the Bible and the Koran.
The Koran is simply a collection of Mohammed's thoughts arranged in order of the length of each entry. There is no chronology to the verses in the way that the books of the Bible are structured, nor does it tell the story of the interaction of God with his people over a long period of time.
It's true that both religions are monotheistic faiths, but Allah was already known to the Arab people prior to the coming of Mohammad. He was one of the many gods in that polytheistic system. Mohammad merely came to the belief that Allah was really the only God instead of one among many. There are no polytheistic origins to the Christian God.
It's also true--as has been said already--that Islam is a works-based faith whereas the Bible teaches is that salvation is through the atoning work of Christ done on our behalf.
The Koran is simply a collection of Mohammed's thoughts arranged in order of the length of each entry. There is no chronology to the verses in the way that the books of the Bible are structured, nor does it tell the story of the interaction of God with his people over a long period of time.
It's true that both religions are monotheistic faiths, but Allah was already known to the Arab people prior to the coming of Mohammad. He was one of the many gods in that polytheistic system. Mohammad merely came to the belief that Allah was really the only God instead of one among many. There are no polytheistic origins to the Christian God.
It's also true--as has been said already--that Islam is a works-based faith whereas the Bible teaches is that salvation is through the atoning work of Christ done on our behalf.
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Jeffersonian
Soli Deo Gloria
I dont think is the same God, at least in their concept i think is different of our concept of who God is. They belive in a punisher God who is above in the sky... we belive in a loving God that he will bring Justice, He is WITH US, and we can have a personal relationship everyday... muslims dont belive this..
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SoldierInGodsArmy
Priest
No, Muslims believe you can have a personal relationship with Allah (God of the Koran). Except Allah is not a Trinity like the Christian God. Allah is sovereign, so is the Christian God BUT, Allah chooses what is good and bad, The Christian God, IS GOOD and anything opposite of Him, is bad.
There are not alot of similarities between the Koran and Christian Bible. The Koran is meant to be spoken out loud and with passion, it's holy and is not to touch the floor, be touched with dirty hands, not to go in dirty places (such as a bathroom), etc. and is written in one language only. (written in others too, but you have to be able to read and understand the arabic one)
On the other hand, the Christian Bible is translated into many languages for the sake of people coming to know Christ, is to be taken wherever, is not holy but a guide, written by authoritative people, written by many people from all over the world and backgrounds.
There are not alot of similarities between the Koran and Christian Bible. The Koran is meant to be spoken out loud and with passion, it's holy and is not to touch the floor, be touched with dirty hands, not to go in dirty places (such as a bathroom), etc. and is written in one language only. (written in others too, but you have to be able to read and understand the arabic one)
On the other hand, the Christian Bible is translated into many languages for the sake of people coming to know Christ, is to be taken wherever, is not holy but a guide, written by authoritative people, written by many people from all over the world and backgrounds.
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You are correct that muslims dont believe in Jesus Crucifixion but because they dont believe in the crucifixion dont mean they dont believe in the same God as christians do. To believe in Jesus is to accept him as your savior but it dont mean they wont be saved too only God can judge us. We dont know all the answers only what we are told by other prophets.
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E.C.
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My bishop put it something like this...
In Christianity if you fall down a well than God, out of His love, will go down to bring you up.
If you fall down a well in Islam, than Allah will leave you there and chastise you because "you should have obeyed me when I said don't go into that well. Because you disobeyed me you are stuck there".
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MrJim
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If I'm not mistaken, after the Gospels & Acts Paul's letters are arranged from longest to shortest, then other authors are arranged in some kind of order...been nice if those that put it together would have had some thought of chronology
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Actually, Judaism, and hence Christianity arose out of a polytheistic religion, and echoes of it are still found in the OT.
Exodus 15:11
"Who among the gods is like you, O LORD ? Who is like you majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?
Psalm 86:8
Among the gods there is none like you, O Lord; no deeds can compare with yours.
Daniel 2:11
What the king asks is too difficult. No one can reveal it to the king except the gods, and they do not live among men."
The Jews did not believe that other nations' gods did not exist, simply that Yaweh was greater. The term 'Elohim' is plural in Hebrew, and the existence of a group or council of gods of who El was the greatest is common in early Hebrew writing.
The truth has been revealed gradually over the ages.. the fact that islam has polytheistic roots seems irrelevant to the topic.
The difference between the two religions is in the atoning sacrifice of Christ, rather than the early developments of man's understanding of God.
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SolomonVII
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Christians believe that Jesus is God nad that humanity becomes one with God through Jesus, who is god.
Muslims abhor the idea as blasphemous idolatry. they especially abhor the idea that God would humble himself by allowing himself to die a humiliating and painful death on the cross.
The essence of Christianity is that Jesus is God. Muslims fully reject this cornerstone belief as not only being blasphemous, but being impossible.
As a further differentiation, Jews do not specifically believe in Jesus, but they do believe in a future Divine Messiah who has not come yet to usher in their deliverance. They still await to believe as Christians already believe.
Muslims reject any such human divinity as a violation of the oneness of God
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CathiewebbJ
Hello People.
God and Allah - not the same.
Islam's Quran and its own adopted practices prove that Allah cannot be the God of Christianity. In Arabic the word 'Allah' may mean 'god' but that does not mean Allah and the God of the Bible are one and the same.
1. Islam means 'submission'. The goal of Islam is to bring the whole world into submission to Allah. The Quran (Sura's 2, 4, 5, 9 and 47) teaches that all 'infidels' (non-Muslims) must either convert to Islam or be killed or enslaved. The God of the Bible tells us that conversion is the work of God, therefore no-one can be forced to convert to Christianity.
2. The Quran says God has no son and is not a father. It rejects the God of the Bible who sent Jesus to help us and give salvation. Muhammad taught that Jesus and Christians were not to be taken as friends (Sura's 5 and 9).
3. Allah was the pagan moon god of Mohammed's Quresh tribe represented by various idols, including a sacred stone. The God of the Bible forbids idolatry. "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.
The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."
4. The god of Qu'ran 4:34 permits a man to beat his wife God does not. Those crying out to 'Allah' are crying out to a god Mohammed created, not the true God of the Bible.
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).
Islam's Quran and its own adopted practices prove that Allah cannot be the God of Christianity. In Arabic the word 'Allah' may mean 'god' but that does not mean Allah and the God of the Bible are one and the same.
1. Islam means 'submission'. The goal of Islam is to bring the whole world into submission to Allah. The Quran (Sura's 2, 4, 5, 9 and 47) teaches that all 'infidels' (non-Muslims) must either convert to Islam or be killed or enslaved. The God of the Bible tells us that conversion is the work of God, therefore no-one can be forced to convert to Christianity.
2. The Quran says God has no son and is not a father. It rejects the God of the Bible who sent Jesus to help us and give salvation. Muhammad taught that Jesus and Christians were not to be taken as friends (Sura's 5 and 9).
3. Allah was the pagan moon god of Mohammed's Quresh tribe represented by various idols, including a sacred stone. The God of the Bible forbids idolatry. "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.
The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."
4. The god of Qu'ran 4:34 permits a man to beat his wife God does not. Those crying out to 'Allah' are crying out to a god Mohammed created, not the true God of the Bible.
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).
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CathiewebbJ
Hello People.
God and Allah - not the same.
Islam's Quran and its own adopted practices prove that Allah cannot be the God of Christianity. In Arabic the word 'Allah' may mean 'god' but that does not mean Allah and the God of the Bible are one and the same.
1. Islam means 'submission'. The goal of Islam is to bring the whole world into submission to Allah. The Quran (Sura's 2, 4, 5, 9 and 47) teaches that all 'infidels' (non-Muslims) must either convert to Islam or be killed or enslaved. The God of the Bible tells us that conversion is the work of God, therefore no-one can be forced to convert to Christianity.
2. The Quran says God has no son and is not a father. It rejects the God of the Bible who sent Jesus to help us and give salvation. Muhammad taught that Jesus and Christians were not to be taken as friends (Sura's 5 and 9).
3. Allah was the pagan moon god of Mohammed's Quresh tribe represented by various idols, including a sacred stone. The God of the Bible forbids idolatry. "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.
The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."
4. The god of Qu'ran 4:34 permits a man to beat his wife God does not. Those crying out to 'Allah' are crying out to a god Mohammed created, not the true God of the Bible.
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).
Islam's Quran and its own adopted practices prove that Allah cannot be the God of Christianity. In Arabic the word 'Allah' may mean 'god' but that does not mean Allah and the God of the Bible are one and the same.
1. Islam means 'submission'. The goal of Islam is to bring the whole world into submission to Allah. The Quran (Sura's 2, 4, 5, 9 and 47) teaches that all 'infidels' (non-Muslims) must either convert to Islam or be killed or enslaved. The God of the Bible tells us that conversion is the work of God, therefore no-one can be forced to convert to Christianity.
2. The Quran says God has no son and is not a father. It rejects the God of the Bible who sent Jesus to help us and give salvation. Muhammad taught that Jesus and Christians were not to be taken as friends (Sura's 5 and 9).
3. Allah was the pagan moon god of Mohammed's Quresh tribe represented by various idols, including a sacred stone. The God of the Bible forbids idolatry. "The god Il or Ilah was originally a phase of the Moon God." The Moon-god was called al- ilah, i.e. the god, which was shortened to Allah in pre-Islamic times. The pagan Arabs even used Allah in the names they gave to their children. For example, both Muhammad's father and uncle had Allah as part of their names.
The fact that they were given such names by their pagan parents proves that Allah was the title for the Moon-god even in Muhammad's day. Prof. Coon goes on to say, "Similarly, under Mohammed's tutelage, the relatively anonymous Ilah, became Al-Ilah, The God, or Allah, the Supreme Being."
4. The god of Qu'ran 4:34 permits a man to beat his wife God does not. Those crying out to 'Allah' are crying out to a god Mohammed created, not the true God of the Bible.
Mohammed conquered his enemies with the sword; Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews 4:12; Acts 2:37).
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Zamkat,
Are you still there?
Just a thought. When I was reading the Koran, I never got the feeling that there was a lot of introspection going on. There aren't many passages that advocate quiet and reflection. There seem to be many passages that look outward in judgement on others. And so this seems to lead to a lack of understanding of our own individual faults, that Christians would call sin.
Also the final question of how does an unholy man stand before a holy God in final judgement doesn't seem to have a solid answer, in the manner that Christ is this answer for Christians. The theology of the Bible, to my understanding, at least, is much more developed and explores much more deeply this question and others.
What are your thoughts and what background do you come from Zamkat?
mell
Are you still there?
Just a thought. When I was reading the Koran, I never got the feeling that there was a lot of introspection going on. There aren't many passages that advocate quiet and reflection. There seem to be many passages that look outward in judgement on others. And so this seems to lead to a lack of understanding of our own individual faults, that Christians would call sin.
Also the final question of how does an unholy man stand before a holy God in final judgement doesn't seem to have a solid answer, in the manner that Christ is this answer for Christians. The theology of the Bible, to my understanding, at least, is much more developed and explores much more deeply this question and others.
What are your thoughts and what background do you come from Zamkat?
mell
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CruciFixed
Well-Known Member
my cousin claims they believe jesus is supposed to come back and fulfill the prophecies and judge the world. is that true?
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C
ContentInHim
Guest
Muslims that Isa (Jesus) will return as the Mahdi's servant. The Mahdi is the messiah of Islam. Chaos will reveal him. He will rule the world and bring it to submission under Islam. Eeeuuuw!
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CruciFixed
Well-Known Member
Ew is right. Weird.
He also is still claiming Muslims do not reject the bible etc
He also is still claiming Muslims do not reject the bible etc
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C
ContentInHim
Guest
They say they don't but they believe that the Bible was corrupted and it was Ishmael, not Isaac, who was almost sacrificed by Abraham and that the blessing descended through Ishmael, not Isaac. Pretty twisted. Especially since there were written scriptures around 1000 BC and Islam wasn't invented until 630 AD.
Just say "Whatever" ....
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