Globalism/Nationalism and Antisemitism.

[mindlight]

If you are going to blame modern Germans for the sins of their parents and grandparents, well then, Christianity as a whole is far more guilty than the Germans.

The original bible texts included a balance between the Jewish and Gentile churches. Between the book of James and the book of Romans. Both have their place. The imbalance of the church in much of the post Constantine era and antiSemtic utterances by people like Luther for instance was corrected following the catastrophe of the holocaust and the formation of the state of Israel. However some younger Christians have begun again to forget the miracle of Israels formation after 2000 years in exile and the place of both Jewish and gentile churches in Gods plan. In part this is because of a biblical illiteracy, a relational as opposed to theological outlook that focuses on the person in front of them rather than the big picture.

 

[Nithavela]

Yes Israel is a useful ally in the middle east against radical Islamist groups and dangerous nationalisms in the region.

Which groups? Those who formed because of Israel or those that formed because of western meddling in general?

Also remembering the holocaust is not merely a guilt trip to modern Germans who had nothing to do with it, it is something that can never be forgotten and should influence the formation of policy.

It shouldn't be the only thing influencing policy, though.

 

[mindlight]

Which groups? Those who formed because of Israel or those that formed because of western meddling in general?


It shouldn't be the only thing influencing policy, though.

Muslim antisemitism predates the formation of the state of Israel, Muslim radicals did everything they could to prevent the formation of the state including supporting the Nazis. Are you seriously saying that we should take organisations like Hamas and Hezbollah seriously or regard them as legitimate responses to the desire of Jews for a free and safe homeland?

The real issue here is that Muslims cannot understand how the third holiest place in Islam is no longer under their control. They cannot understand that there is nothing inevitable about the rise of Islam and that indeed its fall as a false religion is more likely. Israel testifies to the decline of Islam and that God is not on their side as does India, Spain and the Balkans.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Muslim antisemitism predates the formation of the state of Israel, Muslim radicals did everything they could to prevent the formation of the state including supporting the Nazis. Are you seriously saying that we should take organisations like Hamas and Hezbollah seriously or regard them as legitimate responses to the desire of Jews for a free and safe homeland?

The real issue here is that Muslims cannot understand how the third holiest place in Islam is no longer under their control. They cannot understand that there is nothing inevitable about the rise of Islam and that indeed its fall as a false religion is more likely. Israel testifies to the decline of Islam and that God is not on their side as does India, Spain and the Balkans.

Zionist terrorist organizations opposed British occupation with bombs and assassinations in Palestine and in Europe. They bombed trains and buses and blew up hotels, drove trucks packed with explosives, nails, screap iron and rusty metal for maximum damage into crowds, cafes, cinemas and people at bus stops and machine-gun fired marketplaces. Later, distinguished members of Irgun, Lehi and Haganah went to become politicans and members, ministers, speakers of the First Knesset, commanders of the IDF, Prime Ministers of Israel, and propaganda advisers and counter-terrorism experts to the Prime Minister of Israel.

Yet here you are wondering whether we should take organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah seriously. Well, a Prime Minister of Israel, before reinventing himself as a serious politician and leader of an independent nation, used to run terrorists camps and blow up a ship carrying fellow Jewish passengers.

 

[Nithavela]

Muslim antisemitism predates the formation of the state of Israel, Muslim radicals did everything they could to prevent the formation of the state including supporting the Nazis. Are you seriously saying that we should take organisations like Hamas and Hezbollah seriously or regard them as legitimate responses to the desire of Jews for a free and safe homeland?

I'd take anyone seriously that has that many followers and weapons at his disposal. As for legitimate.. I don't know. I don't think they have a moral foot to stand on with their history of violence and terror, but the actions of Israel aren't blameless, as well. It's a situation without solutions. I believe that this is by design.

I honestly think that the best solution would have been to give the jews parts of germany after the 2nd world war. Instead they now serve as a lightning rod against muslim aggression.

The real issue here is that Muslims cannot understand how the third holiest place in Islam is no longer under their control. They cannot understand that there is nothing inevitable about the rise of Islam and that indeed its fall as a false religion is more likely. Israel testifies to the decline of Islam and that God is not on their side as does India, Spain and the Balkans.

For a religion in decline islam is doing pretty well, being the fastest growing religion and all that.

 

[mindlight]

Zionist terrorist organizations opposed British occupation with bombs and assassinations in Palestine and in Europe. They bombed trains and buses and blew up hotels, drove trucks packed with explosives, nails, screap iron and rusty metal for maximum damage into crowds, cafes, cinemas and people at bus stops and machine-gun fired marketplaces. Later, distinguished members of Irgun, Lehi and Haganah went to become politicans and members, ministers, speakers of the First Knesset, commanders of the IDF, Prime Ministers of Israel, and propaganda advisers and counter-terrorism experts to the Prime Minister of Israel.

Yet here you are wondering whether we should take organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah seriously. Well, a Prime Minister of Israel, before reinventing himself as a serious politician and leader of an independent nation, used to run terrorists camps and blow up a ship carrying fellow Jewish passengers.

The strongest case for Israel was not Jewish terrorists but rather Christian compassion for people we had wronged.

 

[mindlight]

I'd take anyone seriously that has that many followers and weapons at his disposal. As for legitimate.. I don't know. I don't think they have a moral foot to stand on with their history of violence and terror, but the actions of Israel aren't blameless, as well. It's a situation without solutions. I believe that this is by design.

I honestly think that the best solution would have been to give the jews parts of germany after the 2nd world war. Instead they now serve as a lightning rod against muslim aggression.


For a religion in decline islam is doing pretty well, being the fastest growing religion and all that.

More people by numbers become Christians than Muslims. The Muslim statistics are a sham provoked by fear. Everyone in Russia was a communist before Communism fell also.

God gave the Jews the land, the British promised it to them in 1917. It has been Christian or Jewish for longer than it has been Muslim. Under the Muslims it was a neglected backwater

 

[Nithavela]

More people by numbers become Christians than Muslims. The Muslim statistics are a sham provoked by fear. Everyone in Russia was a communist before Communism fell also.

I assume you have some evidence for this statement?

God gave the Jews the land, the British promised it to them in 1917. It has been Christian or Jewish for longer than it has been Muslim. Under the Muslims it was a neglected backwater

If we go with time I say give it to the dinosaurs.

 

[mindlight]

I assume you have some evidence for this statement?


If we go with time I say give it to the dinosaurs.

Muslims grew from 200m - 1.2bn 1900-2000

Christians grew 560m - 2bn same time

Do the math of the yearly average

https://www.gla.ac.uk/0t4/humanities/files/mindmapping/Religion1_files/docs/religionstatistics.pdf

Statistics after 2000 are skewed by politics, various false assumptions, and inconsistently applied methods comparing Western and Muslim countries but even if we accept current stats of 1.6 bn muslims and 2.2 bn christians christians grew 200m more over last 120 years

 

[Nithavela]

Muslims grew from 200m - 1.2bn 1900-2000

Christians grew 560m - 2bn same time

Do the math of the yearly average

https://www.gla.ac.uk/0t4/humanities/files/mindmapping/Religion1_files/docs/religionstatistics.pdf

Statistics after 2000 are skewed by politics, various false assumptions, and inconsistently applied methods comparing Western and Muslim countries but even if we accept current stats of 1.6 bn muslims and 2.2 bn christians christians grew 200m more over last 120 years

I will happily accept these statistics as evidence that islam is not in decline.

 

[mindlight]

I will happily accept these statistics as evidence that islam is not in decline.

I do not trust these statistics for the simple reason that oppressed people do not tell the truth when polled and the Muslim world is ruled by oppression. I share them only to illustrate that the secular claim that Islam is growing faster is a false one.

The growth of the number of indigeonous churches, the number of converts from Islam each year the loss of key strongholds like Israel, India, Spain and the Balkans speak of centuries of decline. The numbers of Muslims is counted by the high birthrate of mainly poor people but ignores fact that many have fallen away for instance. in a Western countries atheists are debited from the Christian stats cause they have the freedom to do so without consequence. Muslims do not have that freedom to the same degree. Also many born Muslim are counted twice, or changed religion since birth but do not declare that.

 

[Nithavela]

I do not trust these statistics[...]

Then why did you quote them?

I am sorry, but it looks like you do not actually have any evidence for the decline of Islam.

 

[mindlight]

Then why did you quote them?

I am sorry, but it looks like you do not actually have any evidence for the decline of Islam.

Except the evidence which you have ignored such as the existence of a Jewish state of Israel for example.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

There would be no Antisemitism if the Jews would just convert to Christian Nationalists.

 

[DanishLutheran]

Why should the Palestinians have to move out of their own ancestral homeland? They have been there before Christ Himself walked this Earth.

False. The so-called "Palestinians" are Arabs, and the Arabs zerged out of the desert under the leadership of a certain charismatic merchant in the 7th century.
The Jewish people, is the people that has been there since before Christ. Many of the so-called "Palestinians" are the descendents of late-coming immigrants from the latter part of the 19th and early part of the 20th century.

You know to whom the land is actually ancestral homeland? The Jewish people. The other claim is Pallywood nonsense.