Globalism/Nationalism and Antisemitism.

[crossnote]

Nationalism has usually been associated with antisemitism. ("We need to make our country strong, so let's get rid of these undesirable Jews.")

But today we are seeing a surge of antisemitism coming from the Globalists ("Israel and Zionism is counter productive to a one world system with it's adherence to a Jewish State".)

For the Christian, neither of these two concepts should hold water.

 

[MariaJLM]

I don't agree with Globalists much, but in this case they're correct. It's not anti-semitism to criticize Israel's actions towards the Palestinians either.

 

[Occams Barber]

Nationalism has usually been associated with antisemitism. ("We need to make our country strong, so let's get rid of these undesirable Jews.")

This is an assertion you need to back up.

But today we are seeing a surge of antisemitism coming from the Globalists ("Israel and Zionism is counter productive to a one world system with it's adherence to a Jewish State".)

Again you need to support this. It might also be useful if you demonstrated your understanding of the difference between disagreeing with Israel's actions and policies in relation to the Palestine problem and anti-Semitism

For the Christian, neither of these two concepts should hold water.

1.Which two concepts? Globalism? Nationalism? Anti-Semitism?
2. Aren't Christians historically the major source and perpetrators of anti Semitism?
OB

 

[crossnote]

1.Which two concepts? Globalism? Nationalism? Anti-Semitism?
2. Aren't Christians historically the major source and perpetrators of anti Semitism?
OB

1. Actually all three.
2. No. Perhaps the entities called 'Christianity' and that are a part of the Church/State complex were antisemitic, but not Christians whose kingdom is not of this world. After all Christians realize their Savior was Jewish and so were the Prophets and Apostles.

 

[crossnote]

I don't agree with Globalists much, but in this case they're correct. It's not anti-semitism to criticize Israel's actions towards the Palestinians either.

No one said it was antisemitic to criticize Israel's actions, but in a globalist world of no borders and a long history of worldwide persecution against the Jews, the Jews would cease to exist apart from the Hand of God.
Look at the situation now, where the Arabs have 600 times more land mass than the country of Israel yet they still want the Jews out. Palestinians are Arabs, why won't the Arabs take in their own and why does Jordan and Syria have the Palestinians living in squalor in the few instances they have taken them in?

 

[MariaJLM]

No one said it was antisemitic to criticize Israel's actions, but in a globalist world of no borders and a long history of worldwide persecution against the Jews, the Jews would cease to exist apart from the Hand of God.
Look at the situation now, where the Arabs have 600 times more land mass than the country of Israel yet they still want the Jews out. Palestinians are Arabs, why won't the Arabs take in their own and why does Jordan and Syria have the Palestinians living in squalor in the few instances they have taken them in?

Why should the Palestinians have to move out of their own ancestral homeland? They have been there before Christ Himself walked this Earth. I liked to believe humanity was over this whole colonial mentality of "kick out the savages!"

 

[Occams Barber]

1. Actually all three.

Then you have a little problem. Globalism and Nationalism are largely mutually exclusive. If you're saying that Christians are neither Globalist nor Nationalist you need to back this up. A Bible quote will do. Incidentally Nationalism and Evangelical Christianity appear to have an affinity in your country.

2. No. Perhaps the entities called 'Christianity' and that are a part of the Church/State complex were antisemitic, but not Christians whose kingdom is not of this world. After all Christians realize their Savior was Jewish and so were the Prophets and Apostles.

Then you need to read some history. Anti Semitism has, in the past, been rife in both the Christian ruling classes and among the ordinary Christian folk (consider pogroms, mass murder by mob, mass banishments, confiscation of assets). I'm not aware of any Christian group whose "kingdoms were not of this world".

I see nothing here backing up your assertions about the link between anti-Semitism and Globalism/Nationalism.
I have no sense that you understand the difference between disagreeing with Israeli policy and anti-Semitism.
OB

 

[Jonaitis]

Nationalism has usually been associated with antisemitism. ("We need to make our country strong, so let's get rid of these undesirable Jews.")

But today we are seeing a surge of antisemitism coming from the Globalists ("Israel and Zionism is counter productive to a one world system with it's adherence to a Jewish State".)

For the Christian, neither of these two concepts should hold water.

I am not a nationalist, neither am I a globalist, and I am definitely not antisemitic but I find it interesting that the only justified group of people that can be nationalist are Jews. Many of them insist on a Jewish state, but you can't really materialize this without neglecting the full rights of non-Jews living in the state. If they gave full rights and citizenship to Palestinians, they are no longer a Jewish state as they insisted on becoming. I might be ignorant of a lot of facts on this, but this is something people don't often talk about.

 

[crossnote]

Why should the Palestinians have to move out of their own ancestral homeland? They have been there before Christ Himself walked this Earth. I liked to believe humanity was over this whole colonial mentality of "kick out the savages!"

They are not Philistines, they are Arabs that were told to leave by other Arabs in May 1948 with the promise that after the Arab nations conquered Israel they would be able to go back and live in peace. The Jews begged them to stay. Problem is the Arabs failed in their attempt to extricate the Jews but wouldn't take in their own 'Palestinian' people. So now you know why they moved out.

 

[crossnote]

Then you have a little problem. Globalism and Nationalism are largely mutually exclusive. If you're saying that Christians are neither Globalist nor Nationalist you need to back this up. A Bible quote will do. Incidentally Nationalism and Evangelical Christianity appear to have an affinity in your country.

I believed I said 'for the Christian neither of these should hold water'. Besides, their is a difference between one nation UNDER God and our nation IS God.

As far as the rest of your comment, simply insert God into the equation...which as an atheist you probably wouldn't...but that Land has been God's promise to them as well as their preservation, which He has done quite well against all odds and promises to do so.

 

[crossnote]

I am not a nationalist, neither am I a globalist, and I am definitely not antisemitic but I find it interesting that the only justified group of people that can be nationalist are Jews. Many of them insist on a Jewish state, but you can't really materialize this without neglecting the full rights of non-Jews living in the state. If they gave full rights and citizenship to Palestinians, they are no longer a Jewish state as they insisted on becoming. I might be ignorant of a lot of facts on this, but this is something people don't often talk about.

It's not surprising that as Reformed you do not see a justification for a Jewish State, as the Reformed tend to a non literal interpretation of the future Land promises by God to the descendants of Abraham>Isaac>Jacob, or if they do take them literal they brush it off as already fulfilled.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I am not a nationalist, neither am I a globalist, and I am definitely not antisemitic but I find it interesting that the only justified group of people that can be nationalist are Jews.

Organized Jewry typically support nationalism for themselves, globalism for everybody else. Many non-Jews resent that double standard.

 

[mindlight]

Nationalism has usually been associated with antisemitism. ("We need to make our country strong, so let's get rid of these undesirable Jews.")

There are some very large exceptions to that version of nationalism indeed two successful examples included the Jews e.g British nationalism since Cromwell and American nationalism since Truman.

But today we are seeing a surge of antisemitism coming from the Globalists ("Israel and Zionism is counter productive to a one world system with it's adherence to a Jewish State".)

Again that is hard to spot in America and the UK for instance though Corbyn is quite antiSemitic in the UK.

For the Christian, neither of these two concepts should hold water.

God gave the land to the Jews, one of Americas more Christian presidents ensured they got the international recognition of their new state. In various wars of self defence against incredulous Muslim countries dismayed at their shrinking influence over Jerusalem they secured borders that were more defensible against the threats of their neighbours.They have turned an Ottoman backwater state into a thriving modern state in which increasing numbers of Jews are finding Jesus.

As a Christian i consider much of the rationale for the Jews to set themselves apart from others to have evaporated with Christ. But so also I recognise a people that God Himself has preserved through persecution and holocaust. A messianic Jew can claim the land promise while no Arab can. In that respect the Jews are a nation like no other except ones like Britain ( till recently ) who have God written into their constitutions. The Byzantines were another example and Imperial Spain.

Globalisation itself is pretty much inevitable whether through Christ or antiChrist, harlot of Babylon or church. But Israel will be there at the end of time itself and still has a role to play in Gods plan for the nations.

 

[Kalevalatar]

No one said it was antisemitic to criticize Israel's actions, but in a globalist world of no borders and a long history of worldwide persecution against the Jews, the Jews would cease to exist apart from the Hand of God.

The vast majority of the world's Jewish people happily live and survive outside the modern state of Israel and have no intentions of emigrating to Israel. Quite a few of them are critical of Tel Aviv's extremist nationalist far-right policies and continued violation of international law, as decent people should be.

The modern State of Israel itself is a multiethnic, multicultural and multilingual country. Every fourth Israeli citizen is not a Jew. 21% of Israelis are Arabs. Due to the mass immigration of non-Jewish Russians and other post-Soviets, 20% of Israelis speak Russian instead of Hebrew. If anything, the State of Israel faces the danger of becoming a non-democratic vassal state to Putin's authoritarian Russia.

Look at the situation now, where the Arabs have 600 times more land mass than the country of Israel yet they still want the Jews out. Palestinians are Arabs, why won't the Arabs take in their own and why does Jordan and Syria have the Palestinians living in squalor in the few instances they have taken them in?

Palestinians and Jews are both Semitic people and the Palestinian territories of West Bank and Gaza is the Palestinian people's homeland, their Palestinian state. Palestinian Christians suffer under the ongoing illegal Israeli military occupation of their homeland just the same as their Muslim neighbours. Palestinian Christians, too, are cut off from their churches, communities, families, schools, hospitals, jobs, fields, citizenship and statehood by the occupier. Calling for the end of the dehumanizing occupation and calling the end of illegal Israeli settlements on privately-owned Palestinian properties and olive groves is not the same as "want the Jews out." The two states -- the state of Israel and the state of Palestine -- and their multiethnic societies can exist side by side, and the majority of both Palestinians and Israelis agree. Unfortunately, the peaceful and decent people between are held hostage by intolerant pro-hate extremists on both sides, including the current corrupt far-right government in Tel Aviv.

 

[Nithavela]

There are some very large exceptions to that version of nationalism indeed two successful examples included the Jews e.g British nationalism since Cromwell and American nationalism since Truman.



Again that is hard to spot in America and the UK for instance though Corbyn is quite antiSemitic in the UK.



God gave the land to the Jews, one of Americas more Christian presidents ensured they got the international recognition of their new state. In various wars of self defence against incredulous Muslim countries dismayed at their shrinking influence over Jerusalem they secured borders that were more defensible against the threats of their neighbours.They have turned an Ottoman backwater state into a thriving modern state in which increasing numbers of Jews are finding Jesus.

As a Christian i consider much of the rationale for the Jews to set themselves apart from others to have evaporated with Christ. But so also I recognise a people that God Himself has preserved through persecution and holocaust. A messianic Jew can claim the land promise while no Arab can. In that respect the Jews are a nation like no other except ones like Britain ( till recently ) who have God written into their constitutions. The Byzantines were another example and Imperial Spain.

Globalisation itself is pretty much inevitable whether through Christ or antiChrist, harlot of Babylon or church. But Israel will be there at the end of time itself and still has a role to play in Gods plan for the nations.

Good thing they're finding Jesus, otherwise the only rationalisation many christians would have for Israel would be that it's needed to usher in the apocalypse.

 

[mindlight]

Good thing they're finding Jesus, otherwise the only rationalisation many christians would have for Israel would be that it's needed to usher in the apocalypse.

You make it sound like a joke for a stand up comedy routine but there are more reasons than that to support the freedoms and prosperity of a Jewish state against those who would destroy it. The rise of antiSemitism dressed up as compassion for Palestinians is something that Germans have strong historical reasons for opposing

 

[Nithavela]

You make it sound like a joke for a stand up comedy routine but there are more reasons than that to support the freedoms and prosperity of a Jewish state against those who would destroy it. The rise of antiSemitism dressed up as compassion for Palestinians is something that Germans have strong historical reasons for opposing

Any other reasons except a nearly century old guilt trip?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

You make it sound like a joke for a stand up comedy routine but there are more reasons than that to support the freedoms and prosperity of a Jewish state against those who would destroy it. The rise of antiSemitism dressed up as compassion for Palestinians is something that Germans have strong historical reasons for opposing

If you are going to blame modern Germans for the sins of their parents and grandparents, well then, Christianity as a whole is far more guilty than the Germans.

 

[Nithavela]

If you are going to blame modern Germans for the sins of their parents and grandparents, well then, Christianity as a whole is far more guilty than the Germans.

I think mankind as a whole has a pretty suboptimal performance history.

 

[mindlight]

Any other reasons except a nearly century old guilt trip?

Yes Israel is a useful ally in the middle east against radical Islamist groups and dangerous nationalisms in the region. It is a democracy unlike just about every Muslim country in the region and is governed by the rule of law also in contrast to most of its neighbours. Also remembering the holocaust is not merely a guilt trip to modern Germans who had nothing to do with it, it is something that can never be forgotten and should influence the formation of policy.