Global vs Local Flood: Perhaps there is a way to have Unison Between the Two

freezerman2000

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Interesting idea. It is worthy to note that around the same time a massive flood occurred in the Black Sea region (which I personally believe is Noah's flood), there was another massive flood not too far from where I live, in what is now eastern Washington State. Both were caused by breaking of ice dams. Your idea would explain why so many cultures have flood myths, and also why there are dramatic differences between the stories.

Quoting one of my previous posts,I think this is what you are talking about. See post below.
 
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freezerman2000

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Armistead14

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I think it's possible that men passed down oral flood stories, maybe as far back as 18,000 years ago. However, science and history have proven we never had a global flood and certainly didn't have one during Noah's time. One only need study the history of the 5 largest civilizations that existed during the possible period of Noah's flood, they all kept dated records before, during and after the so called flood and make no mention of a flood. People can ignore science, not sure how people can ignore written dated history in mass.
 
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Greg1234

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Interesting idea. It is worthy to note that around the same time a massive flood occurred in the Black Sea region (which I personally believe is Noah's flood),

I've always wondered how the locals managed to contain a cataclysmic cause of such biblical proportians to a local area. Imagine flooding and impacting only a local area with a meteor impact.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Interesting idea. It is worthy to note that around the same time a massive flood occurred in the Black Sea region (which I personally believe is Noah's flood), there was another massive flood not too far from where I live, in what is now eastern Washington State. Both were caused by breaking of ice dams. Your idea would explain why so many cultures have flood myths, and also why there are dramatic differences between the stories.


The flood that occurred near eastern Washington State was indeed very massive...and amazing to consider the amount of water that could arise from dams breaking. Glad to know I'm not crazy in what was on my mind.
 
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freezerman2000

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Easy G (G²);61397505 said:
The flood that occurred near eastern Washington State was indeed very massive...and amazing to consider the amount of water that could arise from dams breaking. Glad to know I'm not crazy in what was on my mind.

Here's an article about the size of the lake and the affected area(s).
Digital Geology of Idaho - Lake Missoula Floods
 
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Gxg (G²)

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I've always wondered how the locals managed to contain a cataclysmic cause of such biblical proportians to a local area. Imagine flooding and impacting only a local area with a meteor impact.

Concerning th meteor comment and how things thought to have epic consequences can often impact certain areas, I'm reminded of the mysterious Tunguska event which was an enormously powerful explosion that occurred near the Podkamennaya Tunguska River in what is now Krasnoyarsk Krai, Russia, at about 7:14 a.m. on June 30, 1908.The explosion, having the epicenter (60.886°N, 101.894°E), is believed to have been caused by the air burst of a large meteoroid or comet fragment at an altitude of 5–10 kilometres (3–6 mi) above the Earth's surface.

Witnesses close to the event described seeing a fireball in the sky, as bright and hot as another sun. Millions of trees fell and the ground shook. Although a number of scientists investigated, it is still a mystery as to what caused the explosion. the explosion is estimated to have created the effects of a magnitude 5.0 earthquake, causing buildings to shake, windows to break, and people to be knocked off their feet even at 40 miles away. The blast, centered in a desolate and forested area near the Podkamennaya Tunguska River in Russia, is estimated to have been a thousand times more powerful than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. The explosion leveled an estimated 80 million trees over an 830 square-mile area in a radial pattern from the blast zone. Dust from the explosion hovered over Europe, reflecting light that was bright enough for Londoners




For more:
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Here's an article about the size of the lake and the affected area(s).
Digital Geology of Idaho - Lake Missoula Floods

Appreciate the resource and many thanks for giving it out :)

Quoting one of my previous posts,I think this is what you are talking about. See post below.
Actually, what you noted in the post was noted at the very first posting I made..:

Easy G (G²);60385579 said:
Sea Water poured into what was (during the Height of the Ice Age) a fresh water lake (Black Lake). This rapidly poured seawater into the fresh water lake, killing fish, flooding the littoral of the entire shoreline of former Black Lake. Now it is the much larger and deeper Black Sea. Hundreds of thousands of people living along the old fresh water shoreline were drowned and another hundred thousand were forced to migrate rapidly to higher ground. Some might have even headed toward the Caucasus Mountains (say, Mount Ararat).

The other major flood was in Washington State at the end of the Ice Age. As the continental glacier began to melt, it formed huge lakes held back by a glacial Ice Dam. The Glacial Lake Missoula was held back by the Clark Fork and Columbia River Ice Dams. The Dam broke several times producing huge floods that covered most of Washington State and carved the gorge of the Columbia to the Pacific Ocean. Native Americans lived there at that time and they have legends of those floods in addition to geology proof of flood basalts across central Washington. Native Americans have several different stories about the Glacial Dam (Bridge of the Gods) and the devastating flood that destroyed many villages and animal herds. It was an American equivalent and probably occurred near the same time as the Mythical Noah's Flood.



Whether others agree or disagree, I'd love to hear what others feel on the matter...and whether or not you think reconcilliation can ever occur. Shalom :)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Interesting idea. It is worthy to note that around the same time a massive flood occurred in the Black Sea region (which I personally believe is Noah's flood), there was another massive flood not too far from where I live, in what is now eastern Washington State. Both were caused by breaking of ice dams. Your idea would explain why so many cultures have flood myths, and also why there are dramatic differences between the stories.

It'll be interesting once we're able to go to heaven and ask the Lord for ourselves what really happened...and see it all in 3D as if we were there :)
 
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Greg1234

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Easy G (G²);61399607 said:
Concerning th meteor comment and how things thought to have epic consequences

There were epic consequences. I was simply interested in how villagers contained a catastrophe on a scale equal to or greater than that of a meteor impact in the local flood paradigm.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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There were epic consequences..
Already noted that there were epic consequences, as seen in the first posting I made starting the thread. My saying "Concerning the meteor comment and how things thought to have epic consequences can often impact certain areas" doesn't mean that I think that others have no validity in seeing epic consequences or that I think others can only "think" consequences were epic rather than know the facts point that out.
I was simply interested in how villagers contained a catastrophe on a scale equal to or greater than that of a meteor impact in the local flood paradigm
Seeing how villagers have often done that when it came to their understanding how the world was (as they didn't travel ALL OVER IT to know all parts), it wouldn't be that difficult.
 
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Calminian

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Adam and Eve show up in the Garden of Eden after 4004 BC. We know that Eden is what they call the Euphrates river Valley, an area that is still very furtile farm land. ...

We actually don't know this. You see there are rivers that exist now that were named after the biblical rivers prior to the flood. This kind of renaming happens often in all cultures. Ever hear of Paris TX?

The point I'm merely making is, the fact we have rivers with the same names found in early Genesis pre-flood texts, does not prove there was no flood. The fact is, men recycle names of places and regions and things often.

Now granted that's not a argument for a global flood, I'm merely saying that rivers names are not an argument against it.
 
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Calminian

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Thanks for the post, Easy G. I can sympathize with you on many levels. I was originally a gap theory adherent, and then a day-ager. I'm currently firmly in the young earth and global flood camp, but definitely am willing to think outside of the box, and catch flack for it once in a while.

If you've not yet come across this book I'd highly recommend Flood Legends by Charles Martin. It's not a very long complicated read at all, but tackles the issue from a literary perspective, really bringing home the case from the actual literature that a global flood and dispersement (diaspora) is recored in virtually all cultures. For me, I've found the literary evidence the most compelling of all when it comes to the global flood question. I think he also effectively shows that the Genesis record is the most original and refined of all flood documents.

Now of course, we have older flood legend copies of accounts that differ from Noah's, but are they copies of the oldest one of all—the original?

Another area I'd recommend you looking into is the tablet theory of Genesis. While I believe Moses wrote Genesis, the archeological/literary evidence points to Moses working with other documents passed down to him. When you look at the nature of the flood account, from Gen. 6:9b-10:1, you see a signature at the end of it, attributing the account to Noah's sons.

This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood.

Archeology has discovered these to be colophon statements or summary statements that would appear at the end of ancient clay tablets. In Genesis these occur in several places and in every case, the signature at the end of each tablet lists a person that would have been a contemporary to the details of the events recored prior, or would have had access to them.

Prior to these discoveries in the early 1900s critics of Genesis didn't believe writings predated 1000 BC. Then thousands of clay tablets were discovered that predated Moses and even Abraham. And we discovered that Genesis bears many of the traits and literary structures of these ancient tablets.

Now if it is true, that Shem Ham and Japheth were the authors of the original account, it would would make a lot sense being they would have been eyewitnesses to everything that happened that was recorded in that tablet. They started their tablet in Genesis 6:9a, Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked with God. They end it with, This is the account of Shem, Ham and Japheth, Noah’s sons, who themselves had sons after the flood.

Now when these ancient clay tablets were discovered, among the writings discovered were countless flood legends. Yet all of them were very crude and fill with the mythology of the contemporary gods of that age. But it's interesting just how refined the Genesis account is, which appears to be signed by eyewitnesses, Shem Ham and Japheth.

Just some thoughts as you work through this.
 
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SkyWriting

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Gxg (G²);62161323 said:
Could Global cooling ever happen again?

Pretty regularly:

Milankovitch-cycles-25113349610.gif
 
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SkyWriting

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Gxg (G²);62234653 said:
Wild to see....

Anyone who complains about climate change does so for political reasons.
Not a single person in the world has published a historical record of climate
then made a "normal prediction", then shown how far we've deviated from
their suggested normal temperature.

temperature-history.jpg
 
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Fascinated With God

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I agree with you, SkyWriting, but you won't like my evidence. The Earth is presently colder than it has been for 80% of it's history, because the rise of the Himalayas 70 million years ago increased atmospheric turbulence causing carbon-dioxide to be more readily dissolved into the ocean and turned into calcium carbonate.





As to the flood, there is a theory that 18 mile wide Burckle Crater in the Indian Ocean might be a relatively recent comet impact that would have ejected enormous quantities of vaporized water into the upper atmosphere producing torrential rains for weeks without end, as well as generating a megatsunami.
 
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