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Given the current state of politics

SolomonVII

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read this column today and there's a lot of sense to what Jack Kelly says

http://jewishworldreview.com/0208/jkelly.php3

Jack Kelly said:
For this conservative, the paramount issue is winning the war on terror, because if we lose, nothing else will matter very much. Arguably, Sen. McCain is better suited than anyone else to lead us to victory.

The next most important issue to me is to appoint to the federal bench judges who will follow the Constitution. Sen. McCain supported the nominations of John Roberts and Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court, but some are trying to manufacture doubt about who he'd appoint. There's no doubt about what kind of judges Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama would choose.

These are the two issues that I see as being the most important too(although I think that calling it the War on 'Terror' is a misleading misnomer).

John Mcain is more solidly on the right side on these issue than are even many conservatives.

I see a lot of conservative commentaries frothing at the mouth about McCain's stance on immigration and the Latin American and Mexican illegal immigrations. But even if these conservatives are right on this issue, they are wrong. Politically speaking, this could be another issue which could well be another major demographic nightmare for the conservative cause. With 80 percent of Blacks already firmly entrenched against the party of Lincoln, is this really a mistake that Republicans would care to repeat for the next fastest expanding demographic group in the US?

The primaries demonstrate that Mcain has at least not alienated the Hispanic vote.
 
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MrJim

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There is an alternative to all this: consider yourself more a citizen of the Kingdom of God, which suspends time and borders, and less a citizen of this evanescent kingdom on earth. Time and history have shown that God manages these transitory administrations, while scripture teaches us the eternal consequences of simply "going about the Father's business". We will encounter the politics as we follow our calling, but as ambassadors of the Kingdom walking in faith, the king of any empire is of no true import and will soon fade to be relieved by another while our God remains ruler of our Kingdom. Regardless of the next elected chieftan our mission and calling does not change...
:preach:
 
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Rochir

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It's fun to sit back and watch the whole thing happen. I have practiced safe politics (abstaining) since 1984, don't participate in the process for personal and scriptural reasonings, ...

I find that a sad stand to choose! It's your right, of course, but still...

Hope you don't complain about politics because you thusly have no right to!:doh:
 
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MrJim

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I find that a sad stand to choose! It's your right, of course, but still...

Hope you don't complain about politics because you thusly have no right to!:doh:

I don't complain ma'am~it's my favorite sport to watch though I don't have a favorite team. The cultural/societal/religious dynamic is just amazing...and I don't find it sad at all. When I was a US Marine I was as "red, white and blue" as they came but have come to see that the Kingdom is so much bigger than political borders, and I have to work from that worldview since none of the others make sense (political conservative/liberal/moderate). My loyalty to the Kingdom of God is absolute; my loyalty to the USA/Constitution is ultimately nonexistent~not out of spite or hate or neglect, but I simply cannot serve two masters. I would expect Christians from other nations to have the same loyalties~unfortunately this doesn't happen, and then we find Christians shooting at each other in wars:doh:each thinking they are doing God's will (American War Between the States is a great example).

And no, I am no fan of the United Nations or "One World Gov't", am no great ecumenicist, am far more theologically conservative than most liberals will tolerate, so I can't get lumped into that group....but those like me are pretty nice folks;)
 
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SolomonVII

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I find that a sad stand to choose! It's your right, of course, but still...

Hope you don't complain about politics because you thusly have no right to!:doh:
I find that a sad stand to choose! It's your right, of course, but still..

As a conservative, I would stress the idea that it is as much a responsibility as a right.
Responsible government is not just our priviledge-it is our job as citizens.
 
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MrJim

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I find that a sad stand to choose! It's your right, of course, but still..

As a conservative, I would stress the idea that it is as much a responsibility as a right.
Responsible government is not just our priviledge-it is our job as citizens.

My job as a citizen? Must have missed that chapter and verse;)
 
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SolomonVII

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My job as a citizen? Must have missed that chapter and verse;)



"The Lord helps those who help themselves" is a chapter and verse that is not in the Bible.
Another verse not in the Bible is the tells us that "the only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing".
"With great freedom comes great responsibility" is yet another.
But just because these verses are not in the Bible does not make unBiblical. Keeping the Bible relevant to life in the modern era requires a deeper reading than driving goats into the desert, or sprinklings of bull's blood, and other verses that definitely are in the Bible, both chapter and verse.

I can tell your mind is set though, and that there are aspects of life that are best enjoyed as spectator sports, best to be enjoyed as a circus with a loaf of bread.

Remins me of a song by Ten Years After,

"I'd love to change the world,
but I don't know what to do.
So I'll leave it up to You."

I am certain that involvement in a war would burn us all out though.


 
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MrJim

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My job as a citizen? Must have missed that chapter and verse;)



"The Lord helps those who help themselves" is a chapter and verse that is not in the Bible.
Another verse not in the Bible is the tells us that "the only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing".
"With great freedom comes great responsibility" is yet another.
But just because these verses are not in the Bible does not make unBiblical. Keeping the Bible relevant to life in the modern era requires a deeper reading than driving goats into the desert, or sprinklings of bull's blood, and other verses that definitely are in the Bible, both chapter and verse.

I can tell your mind is set though, and that there are aspects of life that are best enjoyed as spectator sports, best to be enjoyed as a circus with a loaf of bread.

Remins me of a song by Ten Years After,

"I'd love to change the world,
but I don't know what to do.
So I'll leave it up to You."

I am certain that involvement in a war would burn us all out though.



What you are saying is that unless one is deeply involved in the political aspects of a society nothing else done as a Christian is worthwhile for that society. There you are wrong sport. I played the all american, wore the uniform, did my "duty", but it amounted to nothing. This is just another transient empire. The work done for the Kingdom is what will last.

And guess what~society is also a beneficiary of that Kingdom work. So I won't vote in your elections, serve on your juries, wage your wars, but I will feed your hungry, clothe your naked, and pray with and comfort the mourning, share the gospel with the neighbors, give money to the missionaries in Haiti and at the Pregnancy Center. Sorry if that ain't enough; if that still makes me a spectator in the world in which we live, then that is the calling I have, give me a seat cushion.

But political people such as yourselves believe that unless I'm actively campaigning for "God's Man" for office I'm "doing nothing so evil can triumph", which is simply incorrect. I've seen very little from politicians that gives me any hope. I've seen them use christians as chumps to get votes, then toss 'em aside to move toward their own agendas. I will not put my hopes in kings and chariots.
 
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SolomonVII

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What you are saying is that unless one is deeply involved in the political aspects of a society nothing else done as a Christian is worthwhile for that society.

Oh gosh no. I wasn't implying that at all! Politics are but one of a citizens responsibilities!

There you are wrong sport. I played the all American, wore the uniform, did my "duty", but it amounted to nothing.
That is where you are wrong. the work that you do is very imortant! America is very much a part of God's plan too.

This is just another transient empire. The work done for the Kingdom is what will last.

You are being very cynical. The work that good people have been doing for two thousand years in the name of Christ have been of significant worth.
It is not as if we are just killing time until time kills us and then we go on to the real stuff. The work that we do right here right now, no matter how menial, is important.
And part of that job is politics.

And guess what~society is also a beneficiary of that Kingdom work.
Yes it is! Kingdom work extends into all aspects of what we do here.

So I won't vote in your elections, serve on your juries, wage your wars, but I will feed your hungry, clothe your naked, and pray with and comfort the mourning, share the gospel with the neighbors, give money to the missionaries in Haiti and at the Pregnancy Center.
This is all good. It is not alien from the political priocess either.

Sorry if that ain't enough; if that still makes me a spectator in the world in which we live, then that is the calling I have, give me a seat cushion.

Don't blame me for calling yourself a spectator. It was you yourself that compared yourself to the spectator.
I just picked up on the phrase that you were already using to describe what you are doing.

But political people such as yourselves believe that unless I'm actively campaigning for "God's Man" for office I'm "doing nothing so evil can triumph", which is simply incorrect.
I don't see anyone as "God's" man. Those who are looking for messiahs in political leaders will of course always be sorely disappointed.
There are no gods running for office here.
I've seen very little from politicians that gives me any hope. I've seen them use christians as chumps to get votes, then toss 'em aside to move toward their own agendas. I will not put my hopes in kings and chariots.
Democracy gives you a choice in such matters. To the extent that you take yourself out of the process, there will be no choice for you or your children. That is just how it goes.
 
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MrJim

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Oh gosh no. I wasn't implying that at all! Politics are but one of a citizens responsibilities!


That is where you are wrong. the work that you do is very imortant! America is very much a part of God's plan too.



You are being very cynical. The work that good people have been doing for two thousand years in the name of Christ have been of significant worth.
It is not as if we are just killing time until time kills us and then we go on to the real stuff. The work that we do right here right now, no matter how menial, is important.
And part of that job is politics.


Yes it is! Kingdom work extends into all aspects of what we do here.


This is all good. It is not alien from the political priocess either.



Don't blame me for calling yourself a spectator. It was you yourself that compared yourself to the spectator.
I just picked up on the phrase that you were already using to describe what you are doing.


I don't see anyone as "God's" man. Those who are looking for messiahs in political leaders will of course always be sorely disappointed.
There are no gods running for office here.

Democracy gives you a choice in such matters. To the extent that you take yourself out of the process, there will be no choice for you or your children. That is just how it goes.

It's a false choice~God selects the rulers of nations, I'll let Him make the decision.

America in God's plan? Haven't read it. God wants to use His Church, His Kingdom in this world. The nations are just pawns in this grand chess game. God is in the business of redeeming people for His Kingdom rather than redeeming national empires.

NOW if you are called to play in the politcal world, that is between you and God. It is very popular and sensational; I may very well be wrong, but I did sup from that table and found it lacking. I will not put my trust in kings and chariots, and that is was nationalism (or patriotism if you prefer) wants to do~"Yes we trust God, and good government and big bombs and lots of guns".
 
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SwirlingEd

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There is an alternative to all this: consider yourself more a citizen of the Kingdom of God, which suspends time and borders, and less a citizen of this evanescent kingdom on earth. Time and history have shown that God manages these transitory administrations, while scripture teaches us the eternal consequences of simply "going about the Father's business". We will encounter the politics as we follow our calling, but as ambassadors of the Kingdom walking in faith, the king of any empire is of no true import and will soon fade to be relieved by another while our God remains ruler of our Kingdom. Regardless of the next elected chieftan our mission and calling does not change...
:preach:
:amen: :amen: :amen:

Read "The Myth of a Christian Nation" --Greg Boyd
 
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MrJim

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Regarding John McCain:

NARAL has this to say about him:
Sen. John McCain served in the U.S. House of Representatives from 1983 to 1986 and in the U.S. Senate from 1987 to present. During his four years in the House, then-Rep. McCain cast 11 votes on abortion and other reproductive-rights issues. Ten of these votes were anti-choice. In the Senate, through 2006, Sen. McCain cast 117 votes on abortion and other reproductive-rights issues, 113 of which were anti-choice.

In addition to his solidly anti-choice record, Sen. McCain has never cosponsored or supported legislation that would prevent unintended pregnancy or reduce the need for abortion


In spite of his "maverick" ways, why isn't this enough for the right to get solidly behind him? If the pro-choice people don't like him isn't it enough?
 
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ScottBot

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LOL have they infrozen his dead body with a cure for alzheimers?


Is Walt Disney next?
One can only hope. I find Walt and Ronald better than the cast of clowns we have to choose from this year. Even if they are dead.
 
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ScottBot

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And does anyone think mccain is honestly better for our troops? Better for our security as a nation?
There I give props to McCain. He respects the military and vice versa. Hard to detract from a guy that spend 5 years in the Hanoi Hilton.
 
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