Getting a Gun

Introverted1293 · Jun 21, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
While there are many verses that support Non-Resistance in the New Testament, 1 Peter 1:21 is all a believer should need. If I am to believe this verse, and there are no other verses in the New Testament showing how God approved of Jesus and or the other disciples used lethal force in return to violence done against them, then the matter is clear. We are to follow the example of Christ and follow in his steps and not our own.

Side Note:

Many will try and quote the Old Testament whereby God commanded the Israelites (Not Gentiles) to go to battle against enemy nations, but we are not Israel, and we are not under the Old Covenant anymore. We do not sacrifice animals to a priest anymore. That was the Old Covenant.

Others will point out Christ's 2nd coming in how He will return down from out of Heaven to destroy the nations that come up against Him. The saints follow Jesus by which He appears to fight the battle alone. But these are disembodied saints (who have immortal angel like bodies) who have already lived out their faith. So this is not a good case to make for buying a gun to defend yourself.

Thank you

This is why I am on the fence to be perfectly honest. But the idea of someone hurting me terrifies me. But it also terrifies me that when I die. I will meet God face to face. I will have to give an account. But I couldn't also stand to sit there and watch someone get hurt either. If I am to be perfectly honest though, I would still by it to protect myself. But I can't deny the verse that says if you use the sword, you die by the sword as well. What exactly does that verse mean? Does it mean that we are not allowed to protect ourselves using lethal means if it comes down to it?

1 Peter 1:21 talks about hoping in God. Well, I guess I don't have much faith in God. I don't think that it is a good thing, I am just trying to be honest. I still question whether I am saved or not. But that is I guess a separate issue.

Thank you

You gave me a lot to think about.

Introverted1293 · Jun 21, 2020

Marumorose said:
As a Christian you must not own a gun. Owning a gun means you have no faith/trust in God that he can protect you or send his angels to protect you. Owning a gun means you have the spirit of fear in your heart. 2 Timothy 1:7 says "for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control."
You may start to believe that you are powerful and untouchable instead of praying to God for protection, just like wealthy people rely on money/wealth. The bible says we, as christian, do not struggle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.(Ephesians 6:12)
Jesus Christ said "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword"(Matthew 26:52)
You are outside God's protection when you own a Gun/weapon because you made a choice (free will) to rely on man-made machine instead of trusting the Creator. There no guarantee that the gun will protect you but in God you have that guarantee.
May God Bless You

Thank you for those verses and your response.

Introverted1293 · Jun 21, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
Why would it be wrong to protect yourself? If someone breaks into your home do people expect you to hand over your valuables because you don't have a wife and kids?

Good question

Introverted1293 · Jun 21, 2020

Sketcher said:
Do the people who tell you that you are wrong to protect yourself with a gun believe in protecting their families with guns?

If so, that could be one of two things.

1) Hypocrisy.
2) Matthew 5:38-42 seems to forbid using violence to protect yourself, but it doesn't have a single word forbidding you to use violence to protect others. Perhaps they are very convicted about this.

Yes, this is true.

Introverted1293 · Jun 21, 2020

Richard T said:
A gun can be a weapon of righteousness. If you carry you have to know that God could use you in the place of law enforcement at anytime. It is one of the responsibilities of carrying a deadly weapon. There have been several occasions where a public citizen assisted a police officer and saved their life.
Video shows passer-by shooting Florida deputy's attacker
You should try to work through scenarios as to when you would actually use your weapon. You should be trained as well. There is nothing wrong to use a weapon when it is legal. While there are stand your ground laws in many states, I only would use a weapon for myself, if I could not get away first.

Interesting

Thank you

Introverted1293 · Jun 21, 2020

paul1149 said:
I'm not sure why people think you can defend others but not yourself. I suspect they are taking the Sermon on the Mount as rigid Law, but still need to find an escape clause to cover the unthinkable letting your love ones be abused in your sight. But our covenant is of the spirit, not the letter (2Cor 3). Jesus said His words are "spirit and truth" (Jn 6). He was giving us principles to implement by the spirit's leading, not inflexible laws. He Himself did not roll over for His enemies. He was verbally aggressive against them at times (Mt 23; Jn 6), and even got physical in defending the holiness of the Temple from the profane business model that had corrupted it (Jn 2). The only times He avoided a fight was when a greater good would be served, the most stark example being His submission to the Cross in order to save us. Once when predicting that times would get tough, He even told His disciples to buy a weapon.

We have the right of self-defense. Whether we choose to invoke that right in any given circumstance is up to us. It wasn't long ago that a gunman killed two in a Texas church, and would have killed untold more but that a man trained in firearm usage took him out with one quick shot. Thank God for that man helping to preserve innocent life.

What you do in this regard is up to you, @Introverted1293. But the decision is between you and God.

BTW, this is a horrendous time to buy a gun. There's nothing left on the shelves!

Thank you

There probably isn't anything on the shelf.

Aussie Pete · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
To me it is a difficult situation. Does trusting God mean we don't act?

What will you do with it? Could you pull the trigger, knowing that you are sending someone to hell? Will you take a weapons course and learn to shoot properly? If you do not, you will be more likely to hurt yourself than anyone else.

I heard the testimony of a man so incensed with Christianity that he went to a tent meeting intending to kill the preacher. He was so convicted that he went up the front, put down his gun and confessed his intent. He was saved and born again. That's the power of God. Suppose there'd been armed security there? They may well have seen the gun and shot him.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
Thank you

This is why I am on the fence to be perfectly honest. But the idea of someone hurting me terrifies me. But it also terrifies me that when I die. I will meet God face to face. I will have to give an account. But I couldn't also stand to sit there and watch someone get hurt either. If I am to be perfectly honest though, I would still by it to protect myself. But I can't deny the verse that says if you use the sword, you die by the sword as well. What exactly does that verse mean? Does it mean that we are not allowed to protect ourselves using lethal means if it comes down to it?

1 Peter 1:21 talks about hoping in God. Well, I guess I don't have much faith in God. I don't think that it is a good thing, I am just trying to be honest. I still question whether I am saved or not. But that is I guess a separate issue.

Thank you

You gave me a lot to think about.

Jesus says,
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28).

In other words, we need to learn to fear Jesus more than we fear any man, etc.

When I read the tract “This Was Your Life,” it put the fear of God in me.

You can check out that tract here (if you are interested):
Chick.com: This Was Your Life

Bible Highlighter · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
Thank you

This is why I am on the fence to be perfectly honest. But the idea of someone hurting me terrifies me. But it also terrifies me that when I die. I will meet God face to face. I will have to give an account. But I couldn't also stand to sit there and watch someone get hurt either. If I am to be perfectly honest though, I would still by it to protect myself. But I can't deny the verse that says if you use the sword, you die by the sword as well. What exactly does that verse mean? Does it mean that we are not allowed to protect ourselves using lethal means if it comes down to it?

1 Peter 1:21 talks about hoping in God. Well, I guess I don't have much faith in God. I don't think that it is a good thing, I am just trying to be honest. I still question whether I am saved or not. But that is I guess a separate issue.

Thank you

You gave me a lot to think about.

As for my tract recommendation I gave to you before, based on your avatar, you may relate more to this tract instead:

Chick.com: It's Your Life!

They have one for women, too.

Chick.com: Your Big Moment

Dave G. · Jun 21, 2020

The Holy Spirit should be your guide not so much men unless the Spirit put them there. I pray protection over my house every night before I go to bed, every night. The Spirit is faithful. I also own guns and have for a long time, I've nearly always owned guns. So far in terms of defense I've never needed one. Either way I don't fear. Owning guns comes with responsibility to keep your house safe of not just intruders but of the guns themselves, to keep up your permits so you are in legal possession, to keep them clear of visiting children. I originally had guns for hunting, then got two pistols for home defense. I own the guns, am trained to use them and pray to never need them. I hate taking lives ( even animals now but would to survive) and I suspect the Spirit won't let me be in that situation. But if it is to be ( only God knows) I'm prepared. And you must be prepared or the weapon you own can be turned against you or stolen and used illegally someplace else. I happen for the time being to have second amendment rights to own my guns and so I do. We had people break into our house, we were not home.. That's the Spirit at work imo. If it must be let it be when we aren't home ! Every incident of life has a lesson contained in it. They got $5000 worth of our possessions. And we live in a very tame area. But there was a string of robberies where they think people from a neighboring inner city infiltrated our area for one summer. Our house is set back off the street, most people miss this place when first time visitors but they found it, bashed down the front door and stole our property, some things not replaceable, not all that expensive but also not replaceable. The police said what they do is come in pairs, one guy shove a pry bar under the front door and puts pressure on the door, the second guy kicks it in under that pressure. Our front door jam was in splinters the door wide open when my wife was first home and called police and me at work. It takes them about 10-15 seconds to bash in a front door. We had to have a new door and surround installed. Imagine that at 2 am, this was not 2 am, praise God.

Two towns over there are gangs, every now and then someone is found dead down that way and it's figured it was gang initiations. As I said, this is a tame area all in all but we have these elements among us or they invade us, never mind in bad areas where it's every night. In some bad areas of our country they take away gun rights to carry, then only the bad guys have the guns because they couldn't care less if the gun they have is legal or not. Great.

Introverted1293 · Jun 21, 2020

Dave G. said:
The Holy Spirit should be your guide not so much men unless the Spirit put them there. I pray protection over my house every night before I go to bed, every night. The Spirit is faithful. I also own guns and have for a long time, I've nearly always owned guns. So far in terms of defense I've never needed one. Either way I don't fear. Owning guns comes with responsibility to keep your house safe of not just intruders but of the guns themselves, to keep up your permits so you are in legal possession, to keep them clear of visiting children. I originally had guns for hunting, then got two pistols for home defense. I own the guns, am trained to use them and pray to never need them. I hate taking lives ( even animals now but would to survive) and I suspect the Spirit won't let me be in that situation. But if it is to be ( only God knows) I'm prepared. And you must be prepared or the weapon you own can be turned against you or stolen and used illegally someplace else. I happen for the time being to have second amendment rights to own my guns and so I do. We had people break into our house, we were not home.. That's the Spirit at work imo. If it must be let it be when we aren't home ! Every incident of life has a lesson contained in it. They got $5000 worth of our possessions. And we live in a very tame area. But there was a string of robberies where they think people from a neighboring inner city infiltrated our area for one summer. Our house is set back off the street, most people miss this place when first time visitors but they found it, bashed down the front door and stole our property, some things not replaceable, not all that expensive but also not replaceable. The police said what they do is come in pairs, one guy shove a pry bar under the front door and puts pressure on the door, the second guy kicks it in under that pressure. Our front door jam was in splinters the door wide open when my wife was first home and called police and me at work. It takes them about 10-15 seconds to bash in a front door. We had to have a new door and surround installed. Imagine that at 2 am, this was not 2 am, praise God.

Two towns over there are gangs, every now and then someone is found dead down that way and it's figured it was gang initiations. As I said, this is a tame area all in all but we have these elements among us or they invade us, never mind in bad areas where it's every night. In some bad areas of our country they take away gun rights to carry, then only the bad guys have the guns because they couldn't care less if the gun they have is legal or not. Great.

That is something to think about. Thank you

bèlla · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
So, I am moving to a place that has really cold winters. And the place that I am moving to has a high crime rate. And so, that is why I started to think about getting a gun.

If you can find a better area that’s best. Living around people with little concern for safety or courtesy is a bad mix. If you can’t afford an affluent neighborhood in the city move near the outskirts. Look at the home prices and schools.

~Bella

Pavel Mosko · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
Why is it okay for people to protect their loved ones, but some people think it is not okay to protect yourself?

I do not have any children or a wife. So, I don't know what it is like to have that protective feeling, like parents do. But when I talk about buying a gun to protect myself, some people tell me that I am wrong. Don't I have the right to love myself the way you love your family?

Update: This was not news. I meant to put this in Christian Advice. Oops

So, I asked the staff to move it. Sorry about that.

I don't think there is any clear reason or rationale except instinct etc. I went nearly 30 years living as an adult before I got my first fire arm. In my early years I had depression and thoughts of suicide, so not having one around was a good thing. And I wasn't really worried about my safety. And then there was the whole issue of Christian ethics on martyrdom in the face of evil rather than taking up arms etc.

But a few things happened

1) I always wanted the option to have a gun, and the Democrats were putting in all kinds of legislation that would make it hard on law abiding citizens getting and using a gun.

2) I got married and felt more protective of my wife than myself.

3) I lost my job working in security at the time, and it looked like getting a certification in firearms might help me get a job at a time when their were few jobs out there.

Anyway all those things came together to get me over the fence to purchase my first two firearms (a revolver and an automatic). I can say however without the gun grabbing stuff, I probably wouldn't have 3 firearms and would be in the large group of people this year who are 1st time purchasers....

rturner76 · Jun 21, 2020

genez said:
With your own stats? Assuming only 4600,000 people own handguns? The percentage of people who die from gun violence would equal .01 percent.

Now,if we only count the 1500 children killed? With 4600000 homes where guns are unlocked? That percentage comes to .000032608695 percent!

Suicides is a lame stat to give. Guns do not cause suicide. Suicides are their own cause.

Why are so many suicides by firearm? It simply makes it easier to remove life from the Earth. 1,500 dead children? That's almost nothing compared to

Nobody needs more than a 6 shooter, double-barrel shotgun, and a bolt action or repeating rifle. You can defend your home and hunt for anything you want without being able to take a Glock 17s in each pocket and have 32 rounds available at multiple rounds per second possible. Throw in 4-6 extra magazines and you're Rambo.

I believe that's what people really want. Most boys want to be cowboys, pirates, spies, Army men, survivalists, militia, whatever fits their little dream of themselves that if they could take out a big tough gangster if he ever had to gives him a false sense of security.

Just owning a gun pretty much tripkes the likelihood you will die by gunshot. Logic does not fit to give more people guns and make them easier to get and carry. Children same if there's a gun in the house. You are actually more likely to shoot yourself or a family member than an intruder with a gun.

The only times I felt Ia gun was mandatory was when I though I had something to prove. We don't need more guns than US citizens. We don't have to ban guns or take them from people just take out semi-automatics or limit to 7 round mags would save lives

chilehed · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
when I talk about buying a gun to protect myself, some people tell me that I am wrong

Some people say all kinds of muddleheaded nonsense.

But a gun, train with it regularly to become proficient in its use, and ignore the ravings of those who would deny your intrinsic right to own the tools of self-defense.

rturner76 said:
Just owning a gun pretty much tripkes the likelihood you will die by gunshot.

This is the kind of raving nonsense I'm referring to. It's fabricated rubbish that has no basis in reality; every single time I ask for data to support statements like that the resonse is either silence, an appeal to personal opinion, a reference to some newspaper or magazine article that alleges to quote some study or other, or a reference to an alleged study that's rife with serious methodological flaws that invalidate the conclusions. I've even had people reference studies that explicitly say that it can't be used to support their position, which proves to me that they never bothered to study it.

salt-n-light · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
Why is it okay for people to protect their loved ones, but some people think it is not okay to protect yourself?

I do not have any children or a wife. So, I don't know what it is like to have that protective feeling, like parents do. But when I talk about buying a gun to protect myself, some people tell me that I am wrong. Don't I have the right to love myself the way you love your family?

Update: This was not news. I meant to put this in Christian Advice. Oops

So, I asked the staff to move it. Sorry about that.

I always question what exactly would you be protecting yourself from, or what leads someone to conclude that firearms is the best solution to protect as oppose to other choices (guard dog, better security system, moving to a safer neighborhood, self-defense course, etc.). People as a reason to have guns idk rings bells in my head that maybe I should go somewhere else, I would more encourage people if they can to remove themselves from needing a gun, then do so since a gun is like a last resort.Just having it just to make a point that you can have it like those with family, not the wisest thing to have as a motivator. But I digress.

Its America, so lawfully you can. I understand that in certain areas, it makes sense to have it. Or maybe they really are not in a situation that they can just change their environment. But judge wisely if its something needed,get the proper training, and act responsibly.

Fidelibus · Jun 21, 2020

dqhall said:
Most cops in India carried sticks.

Are you trying to say that the woman from Texas that I posted about in post #49 would have been better off using a stick against the intruder than a firearm in saving her fiance' life?

Daersoulkeeper · Jun 21, 2020

of course its ok,

luke 22:36

King James Bible
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

also, God has an actual ARMY, don't you think they are the most powerful army ever to exist? yes they are. yes they are weapons, yes they defend themselves.

so why can't you?

don't let the pansy christians who believe its better to die then protect themselves or others. God doesn't do this nonsense. He sent his son to die for you, yes. That was the price paid for your salvation, it does not reflect a punching bag mentality.

here look at Gods army its mind boggling amazing

GODS ARMY

Joel 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the Lord cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

3 A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.

4 The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

5 Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

6 Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.

7 They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks:

8 Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and when they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded.

9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.

10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

11 And the Lord shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the Lord is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

dcalling · Jun 21, 2020

Introverted1293 said:
Why is it okay for people to protect their loved ones, but some people think it is not okay to protect yourself?

I do not have any children or a wife. So, I don't know what it is like to have that protective feeling, like parents do. But when I talk about buying a gun to protect myself, some people tell me that I am wrong. Don't I have the right to love myself the way you love your family?

Update: This was not news. I meant to put this in Christian Advice. Oops

So, I asked the staff to move it. Sorry about that.

You should be fine. The Bible never talk about that you should not protect yourself. God looks one in the heart, as long as your goal is to protect but not to actively kill (i.e. kill is only a by product of protect), you are fine.

So I believe it is fine to own or not own a gun

But if you do own a gun, it is on you to ensure you properly protect the gun and educate yourself on how to use it, as God said:
"When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof." Deuteronomy 22:8

Fidelibus · Jun 21, 2020

coffee4u said:
The only way to stop everyone needing guns is strict gun control like we did here.

When you say "everyone" do you believe the "bad guys" will abide with these strict gun control measures aswell?

Once the 'bad guys' don't have guns you won't feel a need to own a gun.

Well, my belief as a proud 50 year member of the NRA is that these "bad guys' will never ever not have guns, so there will always be a need to own a gun. As a survivor of a mass shooting, the last thing I want is having only a stick to protect myself or my family when being attacked by a bad guy with a gun. I want to have a fighting chance!

Do you honestly believe your government will guarantee that strict gun control laws will keep guns out of the hands of outlaws? There is a reason they are called "outlaws" you know.

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