German exchange student killed

[Vylo]

OK, first off it isn't illegal to bait someone and then use deadly force if they commit a felony, where deadly force is allowed for this (differs by state). It is illegal to execute them or continue force when you can be reasonably sure they are disabled. That is, you can't shoot the guy, nail him in the leg and send him down and then just execute him with another shot.

If those people didn't commit the felony, they wouldn't be getting shot at. Stop committing felonies, you won't get shot. Amazing how that works.

In this particular case the kid didn't break into the house, he entered an open garage. That is not a felony. If he began to steal something, then the owner would have a case by the state's law.

So if the kid wasn't clearly stealing/destroying something of the owner or threatening them, they had no right to shoot him. They certain had the right to hold him at gunpoint and ask him what he was doing, but not to just open fire.

For my state (NJ) you don't even have the right to shoot them when they START to steal something, but you can confront them, and if they don't drop it before retreating, you can shoot them. Otherwise you can only shoot them if they present a danger to you and you cannot retreat inside the property (they cannot force you out of your home, if they try to, its shooting time).

 

[Vylo]

I hope the only property he'll be defending for a long time will be his jail cell.

That was the joke

 

[GarfieldJL]

OK, first off it isn't illegal to bait someone and then use deadly force if they commit a felony, where deadly force is allowed for this (differs by state). It is illegal to execute them or continue force when you can be reasonably sure they are disabled. That is, you can't shoot the guy, nail him in the leg and send him down and then just execute him with another shot.

If those people didn't commit the felony, they wouldn't be getting shot at. Stop committing felonies, you won't get shot. Amazing how that works.

In this particular case the kid didn't break into the house, he entered an open garage. That is not a felony. If he began to steal something, then the owner would have a case by the state's law.

Actually it kinda is a felony, and it is reasonable to suspect he intended to steal stuff because it was in the middle of the night.

So if the kid wasn't clearly stealing/destroying something of the owner or threatening them, they had no right to shoot him. They certain had the right to hold him at gunpoint and ask him what he was doing, but not to just open fire.

If the garage is attached to the house then it is part of the house. When a door to a house is standing open, you do not enter the house without permission of the home owner.

For my state (NJ) you don't even have the right to shoot them when they START to steal something, but you can confront them, and if they don't drop it before retreating, you can shoot them. Otherwise you can only shoot them if they present a danger to you and you cannot retreat inside the property (they cannot force you out of your home, if they try to, its shooting time).

Which essentially puts yourself in serious danger of getting killed, especially if the intruder is also armed.

 

[Armoured]

Which essentially puts yourself in serious danger of getting killed, especially if the intruder is also armed.

I can't even begin to comprehend this.

SO much fear!

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

That was the joke

Haha whoops…missed that one.

 

[Vylo]

Actually it kinda is a felony, and it is reasonable to suspect he intended to steal stuff because it was in the middle of the night.

It isn't a felony to trespass and there are valid reasons for going on to other people's property without their permission.

Which essentially puts yourself in serious danger of getting killed, especially if the intruder is also armed.

If the intruder is armed you can shoot them in NJ. Basically they have to threaten you in a way you cannot retreat from inside the house, or be taking something from the home and refuse to reluinquish it. If they have a gun, its instant you can blow them away, because you can't realistically retreat if they have the gun out.

 

[GarfieldJL]

I can't even begin to comprehend this.

SO much fear!

For example if they drop something, your eyes will automatically glance towards the object that just hit the ground and that can get you killed.

It really is a judgement call situation, and remember they might have more experience when it comes to fighting than you do.

How good are your reflexes? Cause announcing yourself and revealing your position (unless we're dealing with someone that is deaf in one ear) causes you to lose a tactical advantage, that's all well and good if you have insanely good reflexes, but if you don't you could wind up getting killed.

I'm not proposing you necessarily go in guns blazing, but confronting someone in the manner that you're proposing puts you at a disadvantage.

 

[bhsmte]

So the police are relying on a 3rd party to ascertain what the guy was thinking, that doesn't sound too reliable.

For all we know the guy had called the police about people breaking into his garage and they did nothing to apprehend the culprits.

It's sad that the kid is dead, but if he practiced good manners he would probably still be alive. You don't enter someone's home without permission, period. If you're really concerned because no one is answering you should call the cops.



Hindsight is 20/20, it could easily have been a violent criminal with an arrest warrant trying to steal stuff along with a car so he/she could flee across the border to Mexico...

For all you know, it could have been a 12 year old kid as well.

 

[GarfieldJL]

For all you know, it could have been a 12 year old kid as well.

Why would a 12 year old be rumaging through someone's garage in the middle of the night?

 

[bhsmte]

Why would a 12 year old be rumaging through someone's garage in the middle of the night?

Stranger things have happened.

Go shooting blindly in a garage because a motion detector went off, is a bit of over kill and not very bright.

Do you actually think this guy did the right thing here?

 

[Armoured]

Why would a 12 year old be rumaging through someone's garage in the middle of the night?

We don't know. That's why "halt, hands up, who's there?" makes so much more sense than blazing away at unidentified anyone.

 

[Vylo]

For example if they drop something, your eyes will automatically glance towards the object that just hit the ground and that can get you killed.

It really is a judgement call situation, and remember they might have more experience when it comes to fighting than you do.

How good are your reflexes? Cause announcing yourself and revealing your position (unless we're dealing with someone that is deaf in one ear) causes you to lose a tactical advantage, that's all well and good if you have insanely good reflexes, but if you don't you could wind up getting killed.

I'm not proposing you necessarily go in guns blazing, but confronting someone in the manner that you're proposing puts you at a disadvantage.

How do you lose a tactical advantage with a gun drawn on a person?

 

[GarfieldJL]

We don't know. That's why "halt, hands up, who's there?" makes so much more sense than blazing away at unidentified anyone.

Unless the 12 year old is extremely tall for their age, it would be rather obvious that you'd be confronting a child in that situation.

How do you lose a tactical advantage with a gun drawn on a person?

Something happens to take your eye off them for a second would be one possibility.

 

[bhsmte]

For example if they drop something, your eyes will automatically glance towards the object that just hit the ground and that can get you killed.

It really is a judgement call situation, and remember they might have more experience when it comes to fighting than you do.

How good are your reflexes? Cause announcing yourself and revealing your position (unless we're dealing with someone that is deaf in one ear) causes you to lose a tactical advantage, that's all well and good if you have insanely good reflexes, but if you don't you could wind up getting killed.

I'm not proposing you necessarily go in guns blazing, but confronting someone in the manner that you're proposing puts you at a disadvantage.

For the sake of others, I hope you have a sign in your yard that states; if you enter my property, you risk getting shot.

 

[Armoured]

Unless the 12 year old is extremely tall for their age, it would be rather obvious that you'd be confronting a child in that situation.



Something happens to take your eye off them for a second would be one possibility.

I might point out that soldiers in time of war have no problem using the "halt, hands up" formula against enemies they KNOW are armed and that they KNOW are trying to kill them. Which is why I find the "you have to shoot first, otherwise you're likely to die!" line of "reasoning" so nonsensical. It would be laughable were it not for the fact that, you know, people are being maimed and killed over it.

 

[GarfieldJL]

For the sake of others, I hope you have a sign in your yard that states; if you enter my property, you risk getting shot.

I would shoot someone if they broke into my house, I wouldn't shoot someone for simply being in my yard...

 

[Vylo]

Something happens to take your eye off them for a second would be one possibility.

Don't take your eye off them.

Listen, if someone storms into your garage with a mask on and an AK and grenades strapped to his belt, feel free to open your garage door and spray away, but when a 12 year old kid wanders in, you can probably afford to not blast his face off immediately until you know he actually poses a threat, or you know, is actually doing anything wrong.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

I would shoot someone if they broke into my house, I wouldn't shoot someone for simply being in my yard...

The German teenager did not break and enter. He walked into an open garage.

Do you think the homeowner acted appropriately?

Do you think the homeowner handled the situation well?

 

[ForJesusChrist]

It's called ringing the doorbell or knocking on the front door...

Its called not shooting the kid.

 

[bhsmte]

I would shoot someone if they broke into my house, I wouldn't shoot someone for simply being in my yard...

If someone broke into my house, I might shoot them as well depending on the circumstances. But since I don't have a gun, I would settle for some blunt force trauma with a baseball bat.