German exchange student killed

[Manic Spinoza]

BBC News - German student Diren Dede killed in 'castle doctrine' case

This is getting ridiculous. You can't kill someone for walking into your garage when the door is left wide open. For all we know the kid thought the guy forgot to close his door and was just wanted to ask if he wanted it closed.

 

[GarfieldJL]

BBC News - German student Diren Dede killed in 'castle doctrine' case

This is getting ridiculous. You can't kill someone for walking into your garage when the door is left wide open. For all we know the kid thought the guy forgot to close his door and was just wanted to ask if he wanted it closed.

It's called ringing the doorbell or knocking on the front door...

 

[Manic Spinoza]

A motion sensor went off in the garage and the first thing the guy could think to do was blindly fire a shot gun at whoever or whatever was in the garage. We don't know because the kid is dead.

Keep in mind he was from Germany. They aren't used to armed maniacs with a cowboy complex in Germany.

 

[stamperben]

Keep in mind he was from Germany. They aren't used to armed maniacs with a cowboy complex in Germany.

Yeah, well, if Patton had had his way them Germans would know a thing or two about the Calvary rather than them soft lilly-livered Ruskies!

 

[GarfieldJL]

A motion sensor went off in the garage and the first thing the guy could think to do was blindly fire a shot gun at whoever or whatever was in the garage. We don't know because the kid is dead.

Keep in mind he was from Germany. They aren't used to armed maniacs with a cowboy complex in Germany.

He shouldn't have gone in the garage, he should have knocked on the door or rang the doorbell. He was from Germany, I'm pretty sure they know what a doorbell is or how to knock on a door...

It's sad the kid is dead, but still you shouldn't walk into someone's garage like that without permission.

Yeah, well, if Patton had had his way them Germans would know a thing or two about the Calvary rather than them soft lilly-livered Ruskies!

I don't think that comment is appropriate.

 

[Manic Spinoza]

He shouldn't have gone in the garage, he should have knocked on the door or rang the doorbell. He was from Germany, I'm pretty sure they know what a doorbell is or how to knock on a door...

It's sad the kid is dead, but still you shouldn't walk into someone's garage like that without permission.

That may be so, but it's not an offence worthy of death. In a police interview a hairstylist claimed the guy was waiting up at night waiting to shoot intruders. The shooter is a psychopath.

 

[stamperben]

He shouldn't have gone in the garage, he should have knocked on the door or rang the doorbell. He was from Germany, I'm pretty sure they know what a doorbell is or how to knock on a door...

It's sad the kid is dead, but still you shouldn't walk into someone's garage like that without permission.



I don't think that comment is appropriate.

I don't think his death is appropriate. It's not "sad." It's tragic. No matter where he was. But hey, cowboys have guns. What good are they if they aren't used.

 

[GarfieldJL]

That may be so, but it's not an offence worthy of death. In a police interview a hairstylist claimed the guy was waiting up at night waiting to shoot intruders. The shooter is a psychopath.

So the police are relying on a 3rd party to ascertain what the guy was thinking, that doesn't sound too reliable.

For all we know the guy had called the police about people breaking into his garage and they did nothing to apprehend the culprits.

It's sad that the kid is dead, but if he practiced good manners he would probably still be alive. You don't enter someone's home without permission, period. If you're really concerned because no one is answering you should call the cops.

I don't think his death is appropriate. It's not "sad." It's tragic. No matter where he was. But hey, cowboys have guns. What good are they if they aren't used.

Hindsight is 20/20, it could easily have been a violent criminal with an arrest warrant trying to steal stuff along with a car so he/she could flee across the border to Mexico...

 

[Manic Spinoza]

Do you know how investigations and trials work? If we only went by what the murdered and accused murderer said, there would be almost no murder convictions.

It's sad that the kid is dead, but if he practiced good manners he would probably still be alive. You don't enter someone's home without permission, period. If you're really concerned because no one is answering you should call the cops.

Really? Do we have a right to kill every one who has bad manners? How about we stop killing people because they're on your property.

 

[TheOtherHockeyMom]

So the police are relying on a 3rd party to ascertain what the guy was thinking, that doesn't sound too reliable.

For all we know the guy had called the police about people breaking into his garage and they did nothing to apprehend the culprits.

It's sad that the kid is dead, but if he practiced good manners he would probably still be alive. You don't enter someone's home without permission, period. If you're really concerned because no one is answering you should call the cops.



Hindsight is 20/20, it could easily have been a violent criminal with an arrest warrant trying to steal stuff along with a car so he/she could flee across the border to Mexico...

When visiting my friends in their condo, I went out for a run. I picked the wrong one when I was done running, and plopped myself down on some strangers sofa. I guess I'm lucky to be alive. I now live in the state this happened in, and I'm hearing lots of comments about how heroic the shooter was, anyone on your property, regardless of intent, deserves to die apparently. These guys would shoot Christ if he appeared among them as He did to the apostles.

 

[GarfieldJL]

When visiting my friends in their condo, I went out for a run. I picked the wrong one when I was done running, and plopped myself down on some strangers sofa. I guess I'm lucky to be alive. I now live in the state this happened in, and I'm hearing lots of comments about how heroic the shooter was, anyone on your property, regardless of intent, deserves to die apparently. These guys would shoot Christ if he appeared among them as He did to the apostles.

The guy isn't a telepath, and I think people need to stop acting like he should have been able to read minds.

You all are approaching this as though the guy would have had information that he didn't have. It's sad the kid is dead, but we shouldn't compound the tragedy by making the guy out to be something he isn't.

The kid wasn't simply on the guy's property, he was in the guy's garage which is effectively inside the guy's home.

Now if he had shot the kid while the kid was standing on the front porch, ringing the doorbell, then I believe people would have a better argument, however that's not what happened.

Look TheOtherHockeyMom, I'm glad that you weren't shot in the case of the mistaken address situation, but I'm assuming you weren't in slinking around in the dark either. Your example is very different from what happened here.

 

[Manic Spinoza]

So the quote form the hair dresser is impermissible from what you're saying? I wonder if the judge will agree...

Or maybe the fact that the guy blindly shot into the garage without any warning? Sounds like the guy just wanted to kill someone.

 

[Armoured]

Frankly, I'm surprised a "certain element" hasn't latched onto this story and tried to make the point "See? We aren't racist! We shoot white kids too!"

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

Gee. You're skulking around in someone's garage at night.

What could possibly go wrong?

Here's a link to some information about Montana's castle doctrine law.

Of course, then this guy brags about what he did.

Seems like two cases of terminal stupidity to me.

 

[Manic Spinoza]

Frankly, I'm surprised a "certain element" hasn't latched onto this story and tried to make the point "See? We aren't racist! We shoot white kids too!"

He's ethnically Turkish, so...

 

[GarfieldJL]

So the quote form the hair dresser is impermissible from what you're saying? I wonder if the judge will agree...

I'd say it should be taken with a grain of salt.

Or maybe the fact that the guy blindly shot into the garage without any warning? Sounds like the guy just wanted to kill someone.

If he walked out into the garage and shouted a warning he could have gotten himself killed.

Again, hindsight is 20/20 the fact of the matter is the kid was arguably inside the guy's home without permission (I'm considering the garage to be part of the house). If the kid had knocked on the front door, he'd probably still be alive.

 

[Armoured]

I knew my encyclopaedic knowledge of 80s Doonesbury would come in useful one day!

 

[Armoured]

He's ethnically Turkish, so...

Ah. Well. forget I spoke.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

BBC News - German student Diren Dede killed in 'castle doctrine' case

This is getting ridiculous. You can't kill someone for walking into your garage when the door is left wide open. For all we know the kid thought the guy forgot to close his door and was just wanted to ask if he wanted it closed.

That sort of thing depends on the jurisdiction that you're in. If this person entered the garage without the legal authority to do so, it's burglary, irregardless of whether or not the door is open or closed.

Now, ask yourself, what kind of person goes into a garage in the middle of the night?

If this guy was in the garage, in Washington, it would likely be a justifiable homicide:

RCW 9A.52.030
Burglary in the second degree.

(1) A person is guilty of burglary in the second degree if, with intent to commit a crime against a person or property therein, he or she enters or remains unlawfully in a building other than a vehicle or a dwelling.

(2) Burglary in the second degree is a class B felony.

RCW 9A.52.040
Inference of intent.

In any prosecution for burglary, any person who enters or remains unlawfully in a building may be inferred to have acted with intent to commit a crime against a person or property therein, unless such entering or remaining shall be explained by evidence satisfactory to the trier of fact to have been made without such criminal intent.

RCW 9A.16.050
Homicide — By other person — When justifiable.

Homicide is also justifiable when committed either:

(1) In the lawful defense of the slayer, or his or her husband, wife, parent, child, brother, or sister, or of any other person in his or her presence or company, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design on the part of the person slain to commit a felony or to do some great personal injury to the slayer or to any such person, and there is imminent danger of such design being accomplished; or

(2) In the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer, in his or her presence, or upon or in a dwelling, or other place of abode, in which he or she is.

Burglary is a class 'B' felony.

Of course, it is Montana that we're talking about, and their statute is a little different, but there are places where if you catch someone committing a felony, you can shoot them where they stand.

Strange people shouldn't be wandering around in garages at nighttime.

 

[Manic Spinoza]

I'd say it should be taken with a grain of salt.

Why do you think the hair dresser is lying?

If he walked out into the garage and shouted a warning he could have gotten himself killed.

Again, hindsight is 20/20 the fact of the matter is the kid was arguably inside the guy's home without permission (I'm considering the garage to be part of the house). If the kid had knocked on the front door, he'd probably still be alive.

How is this relevant? Should we kill people for making mistakes? Could it be that in other countries the people don't live in fear of maniacs shooting them for walking into their garage?