Germ theory of disease

[seebs]

Does anyone here not accept the germ theory of disease?

Does anyone here deny that the Bible clearly describes a theory of disease involving evil spirits?

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Actually, seebs, there is just as much, if not more evidence in favor of the evil spirit theory of disease as there is in favor of the germ theory.

It is just your a-priori naturalistic bias that prevents you from considering the evil spirit theory as an option.  If scientists were to admit that the evil spirit theory had merit, then they would have to acknowledge the role of God in curing disease.  Because their whole careers are tied up in peddling naturalistic cures, the scientific establishment squashes any attempt to get the evil spirit theory taught in our medical schools.

In fact, the germ theory is just an INTERPRETATION of the evidence.  Since no one has actually seen a germ causing disease doesn't, the germ theory is just that: a theory.  Scientists just ASSUME that the germs cause the disease because they just happen to be found where the disease is most active.  My theory, and this makes a lot of sense to me, is that it is the disease that causes the germs, not the other way around.

In reality it is just your spiritual blindness that prevents you from seeing that the evil spirit theory is an equally valid and equally scientific theory.  The germ theory is yet another just-so Barney story that the secular humanists are using to promote their atheistic world view.

 

[seebs]

I'm certainly finding it revealing that none of the people who believe the Bible is 100% literally inerrant have popped in to explain what's wrong with the germ theory of disease. After all, it's only a theory.

 

[Satoshi]

If it's just a theory, then why do schools teach this anti-God germ theory as fact? I tell you, ever since we stopped burning witches and freed the slaves and took prayer out of public school, this country's morals have gone downhill.

 

[RufusAtticus]

Germ theory of disease also causes immorality. When was the last time you read in the papers that a doctor who didn't adhere to the germ world-view was tried for malpractice? See, it's clear that germ world-view causes malpractice!

 

[Satoshi]

Good point, RA. I should also point out that the Nazis and Communists used gern-theory to justify much of their so-called "medicine." Furthermore, ever since germ theory was taught in schools, violent crimes have risen 511%. Ask any person in prison if they believe the germ theory and they'll definitely say "yes." Democrats and liberals will also answer the same. I think it's definitely clear that believing in the world's answers leads to immorality.

 

[Mid]

diseases are caused by microorganisms. They are a form of life. Bacteria, viruses (which are sort of floating in a living/nonliving existance), protozoa, and worms are a number of disease causing organisms. How can you say, "there is an evil spirit involved here" when a doctor will take a blood sample from you and find, lets say, bubonic plague. They SEE the bacterium moving about. They can identify it. is this lifeform there normally? nope. IF the ol' doc can give you proper antibiotic treatment and you survive, is it still there? Nope. not at all. Bacteria is a lowerer more ancient form of life that the kingdom name escapes me at the moment

 

[Stormy]

Seebs: There is no reason for this attack upon Christians and the Bible. Of course germs are a part of the world. I do not believe either one of us know enough about this subject to warrant our discussion.

But when has that ever stopped us?

I would suggest that you not doubt the control that the mind has over the body. Does the immune system not work better on one who has an optimistic view? Even in the treatment of cancer... attitude plays an important part. Also... I would never doubt the power of prayer.

My personal health is extremely good. I have never been to a doctor for treatment since childhood, except for pregnancy. Sure I catch the common cold but it is quickly defeated.

For contrast you could look to Darwin... and his mysterious illness.

 

[mac_philo]

What 'mysterious illness'? Darwin lived to be 73; that's longer than the average lifespan today in the age of modern medicine.

Are you saying God punished Darwin with illness? You know, last time I checked the world death rate was holding steady at 100%.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Stormy
Seebs: There is no reason for this attack upon Christians and the Bible. Of course germs are a part of the world. I do not believe either one of us know enough about this subject to warrant our discussion.

There was a very good reason for the so-called "attack" - to point out that people are quite willing to replace Biblical explanations with scientific ones, in most cases.

 

[Stormy]

There was a very good reason for the so-called "attack" - to point out that people are quite willing to replace Biblical explanations with scientific ones, in most cases.

I do not find fault with the Bible ... but only in its interpretation much in the same way that I do not find fault with the knowledge gained by Science but sometimes disagree with its interpretation.

But what I am concerned about is the fact that you and I are Christians that can accept science, at least to some degree, and remain Christians. But maybe others are not quite as versatile. If that were the case I would wish for them to stay eternally ignorant of Science and maintain their beliefs in God. One is necessary for their eternal soul the other is only of worth for a fleeting moment.

 

[seebs]

I would rather they know the truth. "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free." As long as we're trying to shield them from science, for fear it will shatter them, we are making them fragile. Better that they have honest faith, not grounded in falsehoods or fear of the truth.

 

[Lanakila]

Truth must sometimes come in small doses like medicine though. I am reminded of the scripture that says that newborn babes desire the sincere milk of the word, and that more mature Christians should be eating T-bones. Not exact reference but, you get the drift. Some of those that come in here are newborn babes in Christ, and may have a little trouble defending their beliefs.

 

[Mid]

Okay, you believe in god and have 'pray' for your illnes to get better. You're going to die. Disease has nothing to do with god. Disease is a type of life (waht causes it anyhow) Believe in science and get the treatment for a disease and more than likely you will live. Antibiotics are proven, vaccines are proven. Religion is not. (No, I am not an atheist). If I had to choose one or the other, I would choose science, but fortunately I dont have to make such a drastic choice as that.

 

[seebs]

Originally posted by Lanakila
Truth must sometimes come in small doses like medicine though. I am reminded of the scripture that says that newborn babes desire the sincere milk of the word, and that more mature Christians should be eating T-bones. Not exact reference but, you get the drift. Some of those that come in here are newborn babes in Christ, and may have a little trouble defending their beliefs.

This is true. However, the best way to fix this is to not tie their beliefs so firmly to something that contradicts observable evidence about the structure of the world.

Truth does not follow from lies.

 

[Cantuar]

However, haven't we all seen posts and heard statements by people to the effect that God cured their disease because they prayed and the doctor and the medicines and the operation were either irrelevant or were all down to God and the doctor was just God's instrument? I've even seen people go so far as to say that they didn't trust the doctor but simply trusted that God would cure them (but went to the doctor anyway). I do feel like telling those people to stay home to do their praying and free up the hospital beds for people who are honest enough to think that the doctor can help them.

 

[Stormy]

Seebs: You are attempting to link a truth with a non-truth and there by add credentials to a lie. Have you decided that since it has been shown that germs cause illness then that is the end of the story and the words of the Bible are false?
Do you know that this same man Louis Pasteur also showed through his work that life can only originate from life? Evolution that begins from nothing is not possible. I do not believe that Pastuer would be happy in the way that you are using his work in an attempt to cast doubt on the words of God.

These words are graven above his tomb in the Institute Pasteur.

Happy the man who bears within him a divinity, an ideal of beauty and obeys it; and ideal of art, and ideal of science, an ideal of country, and ideal of the virtues of the Gospel.

In his address Pasteur said further "These are the living springs of great thoughts and great actions. Everything grows clear in the reflections from the Infinite". Some of his letters to his children breathe profound simple piety. He declared "The more I know, the more nearly is my faith that of the Breton peasant. Could I but know all, I would have the faith of a Breton peasant woman." What he could not above all understand is the failure of scientists to recognize the demonstration of the existence of the Creator that there is in the world around us. He died with his rosary in his hand, after listening to the life of St. Vincent de Paul which he had asked to have read to him, because he thought that his work like that of St. Vincent would do much to save suffering children.

And it has.

 

[nyj]

Originally posted by LiveFreeOrDie
Since no one has actually seen a germ causing disease doesn't, the germ theory is just that: a theory.  Scientists just ASSUME that the germs cause the disease because they just happen to be found where the disease is most active

 

Someone hasn't heard of Koch's Postulates.

 

[Christian Soldier]

The devout Christian and outspoken anti-evolutionist Louis Pasteur was the scientist who discovered the germ theory. He is one of the most important scientists in human history:

"All of these achievements point to singular brilliance and perseverance in Pasteur's nature. His work served as the springboard for branches of science and medicine such as stereochemistry, microbiology, bacteriology, virology, immunology, and molecular biology. Moreover, his work has protected millions of people from disease through vaccination and pasteurization."

Atheists Go Here For Enlightenment

 

[Jerry Smith]

The devout Christian and outspoken anti-evolutionist Louis Pasteur was the scientist who discovered the germ theory. He is one of the most important scientists in human history

How can you call him "devout" when his "theory" rejects the Biblical explanation of disease in favor a godless "naturalistic" bias? Is Kenneth Miller, in your opinion a "devout Christian"? What about Glenn Morton? Keith Miller? Denis Lamoureux?

Perhaps you do think they are "devout Christians." In that case, it wouldn't be inconsistent for you to also identify Pasteur as one. On the other hand, if you, like some, judge a person's devotion to God on the basis of their scientific beliefs and whether they conflict with a particular interpretation of the Bible, then you might want to re-think your position on Pasteur.