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GreatLakes4Ever

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The problem with the Media Bias Chart isn't the political bias of its creators, but the way in which it conflates "fact reporting" and "analysis" with "reliability" along the y-axis. There's probably an argument to be made that the chart is clear if you pay close attention to what the chart actually says, but it's easy enough to get wrong and draw inappropriate conclusions that I blame the confusion on the people who designed the chart, not on the readers who equate a lower y value with "poor quality" rather than just "more analysis" or "less-complex analysis."

It should be a separate axis since they are trying to show three different things: 1) reliability, 2) fact-opinion, and 3) political slant. That would require a three dimensional graph which while doable usually looks messy. What they should have done is drop the political slant and let news sources that are fishwrapper be next to each other regardless of their ideology.
 
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Brihaha

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iluvatar5150

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It should be a separate axis since they are trying to show three different things: 1) reliability, 2) fact-opinion, and 3) political slant. That would require a three dimensional graph which while doable usually looks messy. What they should have done is drop the political slant and let news sources that are fishwrapper be next to each other regardless of their ideology.

I think they could clear up some of it just by getting rid of the "reliability" label altogether and leaving it as "fact-analysis-opinion-garbage".

One think I like about the x-y plot they have going is it shows pretty clearly how the content of mainstream & left-leaning outlets differs from the content of right-leaning outlets. Mainstream and left-leaning outlets skew towards fact reporting and complex analysis, whereas right-leaning outlets skew more towards simple opinion and propaganda. The red circle on the chart below is where conservative outlets should be living if they want to challenge mainstream media, but that circle is very thinly populated, whereas the same region on the left side contains nearly all of the American news media.

upload_2022-1-7_12-44-13.png
 
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Albion

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Mainstream and left-leaning outlets skew towards fact reporting and complex analysis, whereas right-leaning outlets skew more towards simple opinion and propaganda.
Hmmm. I'd say it's not that clear. No one can seriously consider the CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC crowd to be skewed toward fact reporting rather than advocacy. But because there are so many on the left and so few on the right, I do see why you would think that what's listed on the right in the chart would look more propagandistic. One America News, for example, is hardly the equal of and parallel to CNN!
 
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jayem

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As they say, you coulda fooled us.

But that aside, there's too much riding on not forgetting about Trump for every party worker of the Democrats or anyone in the media who is determined to do everything possible to keep Pelosi, Schumer, AOC and Company in power. Vilifying Trump is about all that the Democratic Party has to work with as it faces the 2022 elections, and it is determined to ride that issue as long as possible.

For the record, I don’t identify with, am not a member of, nor a donor to, and neither do I give a flip about any political party. I’ll refine my proposal for a truce. I’ll never post anything critical of Donald Trump. (Which incudes linking to other web sites.) And in return, you won’t post anything (including links) claiming a stolen/fraudulent election. Enough is enough. Isn’t that fair? :oldthumbsup:
 
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Albion

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I’ll never post anything critical of Donald Trump. (Which incudes linking to other web sites.) And in return, you won’t post anything (including links) claiming a stolen/fraudulent election. Enough is enough. Isn’t that fair? :oldthumbsup:
The offer of you never again posting anything critical of Donald Trump is appealing, that's true. For my part, however, I shy away from "claiming" a fraudulent election but rather point out that the last one COULD HAVE been fraudulent and that the efforts of some people to prevent investigating it in order to find out the facts have made the confrontation what it is.

That much needs to be said because the other side is determined to insist that nothing irregular--or at least nothing important enough to be concerned about--happened or could have happened.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Hmmm. I'd say it's not that clear. No one can seriously consider the CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC crowd to be skewed toward fact reporting rather than advocacy.

You misunderstood what I said. As a group, mainstream and left-leaning outlets skew towards fact reporting and complex analysis, whereas as a group right-leaning skew towards simple analysis and propaganda.

The broadcast networks do almost all fact reporting whereas CNN does a mix. I haven't paid attention to MSNBC in years, but I see the chart has them farther down than CNN, which strikes me as reasonable.

But because there are so many on the left and so few on the right, I do see why you would think that what's listed on the right in the chart would look more propagandistic.

What I'm looking at is how the ones on the right are distributed vertically. If conservatives were serious about putting out serious alternatives to, say, NYT and Wapo, or even Vox, they'd be trying to populate the "fact" and higher level "analysis" rows. Instead, they tend to go for the easy money in the lower quality opinion rows.

One America News, for example, is hardly the equal of and parallel to CNN!

I don't know in what way you're referring to, but scanning over the headlines on the OAN website (and the chart makes a distinction between web and tv for several outlets), they look pretty comparable to me in terms of balance between news and opinion, which means I think OAN Web deserves to be higher up the chart (assuming the content of those articles matches the headlines, which I'm not going to bother checking right now). In fact, I'd say that OAN makes it easier to distinguish between the News headlines and the Opinion headlines, which I appreciate.
 
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Albion

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You misunderstood what I said. As a group, mainstream and left-leaning outlets skew towards fact reporting and complex analysis, whereas as a group right-leaning skew towards simple analysis and propaganda.
I understood what you said. It's not accurate what you said, though, and I tried to give you some credit while pointing out that the left-leaning organizations are not parallel to the right-leaning ones, even though the diagram makes it looks that way.
 
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Whyayeman

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This chart probably deserves a thread of its own.

Back to the topic - There is nothing new about the Georgia election that I know of. It was decided in November 2020 and nothing in the way of evidence has emerged to justify changing it to support the claim that systematic fraud occurred.

Across all states there were (rare) individual personations and double votes, but there has not been a shred of evidence that there was a conspiracy to pervert the result in favour of either candidate.

This is just another attempt to foster baseless Trump allegations.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I understood what you said. It's not accurate what you said, though, and I tried to give you some credit while pointing out that the left-leaning organizations are not parallel to the right-leaning ones, even though the diagram makes it looks that way.

You’re correct that the two groups differ: the left groups send out more reporters than the right groups and spend proportionally more time on average doing straight reporting. Broadcast nightly news, for example, is mostly straight reporting. Fox News Channel is mostly opinion. NYT is a mix of reporting, analysis, and opinion. The Federalist is nearly all opinion.
 
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Albion

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You’re correct that the two groups differ: the left groups send out more reporters than the right groups and spend proportionally more time on average doing straight reporting.
I don't think so. The last part of that, I mean. These are very opinion-oriented news programs. They certainly do not just report the news.

Broadcast nightly news, for example, is mostly straight reporting. Fox News Channel is mostly opinion. NYT is a mix of reporting, analysis, and opinion. The Federalist is nearly all opinion.
I thought we were talking about the usual news channels that most people get their news from. Anyway, there are only about three that are moderately right-leaning or firmly so, whereas there are about seven well-known ones with much larger audiences that are decidedly on the left. So once again, I have to point out that the two sides are not evenly divided. That does matter. And if we want to include newspapers (because you referred to the NYTimes) the imbalance is much bigger yet.
 
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Ponderous Curmudgeon

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I don't think so. The last part of that, I mean. These are very opinion-oriented news programs. They certainly do not just report the news.


I thought we were talking about the usual news channels that most people get their news from. Anyway, there are only about three that are moderately right-leaning or firmly so, whereas there are about seven well-known ones with much larger audiences that are decidedly on the left. So once again, I have to point out that the two sides are not evenly divided. That does matter. And if we want to include newspapers (because you referred to the NYTimes) the imbalance is much bigger yet.
Maybe because that is where reality is?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Hmmm. I'd say it's not that clear. No one can seriously consider the CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC crowd to be skewed toward fact reporting rather than advocacy. But because there are so many on the left and so few on the right, I do see why you would think that what's listed on the right in the chart would look more propagandistic. One America News, for example, is hardly the equal of and parallel to CNN!
That is true. OAN is far less reliable and more extreme:

upload_2022-1-7_14-17-13.png


Please note that for CNN they have two ratings.. One for their online news which is in the green rectangle. And another for their TV news which is a bit outside of it.
 
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disciple Clint

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I’d love to forget Donald Trump forever. But it’s various right-wing media that can’t face up to his loss. And keep polluting the infosphere with fabricated disinformation about the election and the Jan. 6 riot. As your link demonstrates, fellow Republicans who won’t toe the Trump line are attacked. And AFAIK, it’s not the political left who cook up the vast bulk of the conspiracy brain-rot that doesn’t seem to die.

Let’s make a deal: I’ll never mention Donald Trump, or anything pertaining to him again, if you do the same.
I believe that link indicates that there is substantial reason for an investigation into illegal voting practices in Georgia, specifically ballot harvesting which is illegal in that state.
 
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Subduction Zone

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I believe that link indicates that there is substantial reason for an investigation into illegal voting practices in Georgia, specifically ballot harvesting which is illegal in that state.

An ultra-biased site is never reliable. You complained when CNN went way overboard with the student that just smirked when a self proclaimed shaman got in his face. You were correct then. But now you offer as "evidence" a site that is no different.
 
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disciple Clint

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Trump will not allow the public to ignore him. Fragile eggshell egos are difficult to maintain. He should be in the cheese business too with all his whine selling!
any candidate that can get in excess of 74 million votes is impossible to ignore and is a threat to the liberal agenda that is impossible to ignore .
 
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disciple Clint

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An ultra-biased site is never reliable. You complained when CNN went way overboard with the student that just smirked when a self proclaimed shaman got in his face. You were correct then. But now you offer as "evidence" a site that is no different.
Do you doubt that such an investigation is going on or are you just being critical?
 
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Subduction Zone

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Do you doubt that such an investigation is going on or are you just being critical?
It appears to be going on, but so far there does not appear to be any evidence either way. Why would a source jump to conclusions before any evidence is in?
 
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disciple Clint

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It appears to be going on, but so far there does not appear to be any evidence either way. Why would a source jump to conclusions before any evidence is in?
Which source would you like to start with since they all have seemed to do exactly that at one time or another.
 
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Whyayeman

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I read the source but found only a report that there is an intention to investigate the Georgia elections. As far as I could see there was nothing substantial there to justify it.

The hard right in America do not seek actual evidence or justification for any investigation. They just keep stoking the embers, hoping for a spark. They produce nothing but dust and smoke from the ashes.

There is nothing to see in Georgia and the article reflects this.
 
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