Geological Layers do not represent fewer years than we conclude

[Astrid]

If Humans existed concurrently with T Rex, We'd expect to find some evidence of this. Possibly a fossile T Rex with Human bones in its stomach region. We do find fossilized animals with other animals in their stomachs, or rather where their stomachs would be.

Well...T. rex skeletons are very rare.
A human sized animal would be swallowed
whole, maybe two bites. Everything but hair would
be digested.

More to the point is that there is a good fossil
record of mammals that lived longside dinosaurs
for millions of years.

Nothing but a few types of small possum like critters
appear during that time.

The evolution of today's mammals all starts
from those possum size critters 65,000,000
years ago and can be traced through many many
thousands of fossils as they changed over the
years to the present.

Only a time machine can get Rolex onto a Roman
charioteers wrist, or a human into T. rex

 

[The happy Objectivist]

Well...T. rex skeletons are very rare.
A human sized animal would be swallowed
whole, maybe two bites. Everything but hair would
be digested.

More to the point is that there is a good fossil
record of mammals that lived longside dinosaurs
for millions of years.

Nothing but a few types of small possum like critters
appear during that time.

The evolution of today's mammals all starts
from those possum size critters 65,000,000
years ago and can be traced through many many
thousands of fossils as they changed over the
years to the present.

Only a time machine can get Rolex onto a Roman
charioteers wrist, or a human into T. rex

That is really fascinating. I was sort of being tongue in cheek about finding a human skeleton in the TRex fossile. I have seen fossils of fish with other fish in their stomachs. There is supposed to be a locality in my state of Colorado up near Walden where fossils of early human ancestors can be found. They are like you say small, the size of a rat. I've seen the dinosaur footprints near Morrison on hogback mountain. I used to have a big plate of sandstone with the ripples in the sand from the current and there are animal tracks like worm tracks that can be clearly seen. Found that on the roadside near Rifle,
Co. I find it all fascinating and captivating.

I've been intensively studying geology and especially how gold deposits are formed recently. Tried my hand at panning last summer. I found out it's hard, hard work.

There is a caldera 20 miles to the west of my house of the Summer Coon Volcano which is about 28 ma. The whole area is lava flows of Rhyolite, Andesite, and Basalt. Not much in the way of sedimentary rocks locally to look for fossils. There are a couple of mines that chased epithermal veins associated with the caldera that I like to poke around. The most interesting thing I've found is some geodes in the basalts of Wolf Creek Pass and near South Fork.

I wanted to be a paleontologist when I was 5.

 

[Astrid]

That is really fascinating. I was sort of being tongue in cheek about finding a human skeleton in the TRex fossile. I have seen fossils of fish with other fish in their stomachs. There is supposed to be a locality in my state of Colorado up near Walden where fossils of early human ancestors can be found. They are like you say small, the size of a rat. I've seen the dinosaur footprints near Morrison on hogback mountain. I used to have a big plate of sandstone with the ripples in the sand from the current and there are animal tracks like worm tracks that can be clearly seen. Found that on the roadside near Rifle,
Co. I find it all fascinating and captivating.

I've been intensively studying geology and especially how gold deposits are formed recently. Tried my hand at panning last summer. I found out it's hard, hard work.

There is a caldera 20 miles to the west of my house of the Summer Coon Volcano which is about 28 ma. The whole area is lava flows of Rhyolite, Andesite, and Basalt. Not much in the way of sedimentary rocks locally to look for fossils. There are a couple of mines that chased epithermal veins associated with the caldera that I like to poke around. The most interesting thing I've found is some geodes in the basalts of Wolf Creek Pass and near South Fork.

I wanted to be a paleontologist when I was 5.

But please, species name is not capitalized!

 

[Astrophile]

If one inch represented 6025 years, then evolution says its 35.89 miles.

I would say stretching one inch to almost six miles is ... well ... stretching it.

If one inch represents 6025 years, 35.89 miles represents 35.89×63360×6025 = 13.7 billion years, which is approximately the time that has elapsed since the Big Bang. Therefore it is cosmologists who say this, not evolutionary biologists.

 

[Astrophile]

Surely you don't expect to find mans' bones with dinosaur bones, do you?

If a man even got close to a T. Rex, he wouldn't be around to fossilize, would he?

The odd thing is that geologists don't find the bones of Stegosaurus, Apatosaurus or Iguanodon with the bones of Tyrannosaurus rex. Stegosaurus and Apatosaurus were Late Jurassic dinosaurs, and Iguanodon lived during the Early Cretaceous.

According to palaeontologists, all these three genera of dinosaurs became extinct tens of millions of years before Tyrannosaurus rex evolved about 68 million years ago (during the Late Cretaceous). Have you got a better explanation for these stratigraphic gaps?

 

[Astrophile]

At the end of the Permian most species vanish. You never see them again.
Ammonites, for example, were hugely abundant, but then gone.

No, I am afraid not. Ammonites were abundant during the Mesozoic era, and are used to define fossil zones in the Jurassic and Cretaceous. They died out at the end of the Cretaceous period.

 

[Astrid]

The odd thing is that geologists don't find the bones of Stegosaurus, Apatosaurus or Iguanodon with the bones of Tyrannosaurus rex. Stegosaurus and Apatosaurus were Late Jurassic dinosaurs, and Iguanodon lived during the Early Cretaceous.

According to palaeontologists, all these three genera of dinosaurs became extinct tens of millions of years before Tyrannosaurus rex evolved about 68 million years ago (during the Late Cretaceous). Have you got a better explanation for these stratigraphic gaps?

Hydrostatic sorting

 

[Astrid]

No, I am afraid not. Ammonites were abundant during the Mesozoic era, and are used to define fossil zones in the Jurassic and Cretaceous. They died out at the end of the Cretaceous period.

Yes, I phrased that wrong. Ive found pieces of ammonite
in Pierre shale.

 

[AV1611VET]

According to palaeontologists, all these three genera of dinosaurs became extinct tens of millions of years before Tyrannosaurus rex evolved about 68 million years ago (during the Late Cretaceous). Have you got a better explanation for these stratigraphic gaps?

Yes.

Post 16 please.

 

[sjastro]

Yes, I phrased that wrong. Ive found pieces of ammonite
in Pierre shale.

My uncle who was a geophysicist gave me this ammonite found in Italy with an aragonite coating.

Under 365 nm UV light.

Most mysterious of all is the sample remained faintly phosphorescent a few seconds afer the UV light was turned off.

 

[Astrid]

My uncle who was a geophysicist gave me this ammonite found in Italy with an aragonite coating.

View attachment 318947

Under 365 nm UV light.
View attachment 318948

Most mysterious of all is the sample remained faintly phosphorescent a few seconds afer the UV light was turned off.
View attachment 318946

Gorgeous

 

[sjastro]

Yes.

Post 16 please.

For the ignorant like yourself scientists don't make assumptions when dating fossils or sedimentary layers.
Fully fossilized samples and sedimentary layers are difficult to date unless the fossils are found between igneous rock layers formed through volcanism.
In this case fossils are dated according to the age of igneous rock layers immediately above and below the fossil which gives an age range when the organism died.

​

Dating of the igneous layers can be performed in a variety of ways.

​

 

[AV1611VET]

In this case fossils are dated according to the age of igneous rock layers immediately above and below the fossil which gives an age range when the organism died.

So basically what I said in Post 16 is right?

Namely this:

Science sees the skeleton of a man in the ground then, twenty feet deeper, a dinosaur, and assumes that twenty feet represents 30 million years of layering between them.

 

[Shemjaza]

So basically what I said in Post 16 is right?

Namely this:

Not in the least.

Concludes from the structural evidence in the ground.

It matters what is found in the layers, what the layers are made of, how the interface of the layers is structured.

So it is false to call it either an assumption or a preconception.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not in the least.

Concludes from the structural evidence in the ground.

It matters what is found in the layers, what the layers are made of, how the interface of the layers is structured.

So it is false to call it either an assumption or a preconception.

The thing is ... (and correct me if I'm wrong) ... you view geology vertically, whereas I view it horizontally.

Like a ladder, you see trilobites on the bottom rung, dinosaurs on the middle rung, and man on the top rung.

Whereas I see the ladder "lying on the ground", with trilobites, dinosaurs, and man all on the same plane.

To you, each rung is an eon, with millions of years between them.

To me, each rung is a unit of time spanning 6025 years now.

 

[Shemjaza]

The thing is ... (and correct me if I'm wrong) ... you view geology vertically, whereas I view it horizontally.

Like a ladder, you see trilobites on the bottom rung, dinosaurs on the middle rung, and man on the top rung.

Whereas I see the ladder "lying on the ground", with trilobites, dinosaurs, and man all on the same plane.

To you, each rung is an eon, with millions of years between them.

To me, each rung is a unit of time spanning 6025 years now.

Partially, but not exactly.

The layers aren't neat and flat. Some have been moved by tectonic movements then covered over with new layers. Some have been warped and melted by volcanic action.

This is why I say it's not just measuring and counting, it's examining the interation and testing various mixed and explanations to find the best fit.

 

[SelfSim]

Whereas I see the ladder "lying on the ground", with trilobites, dinosaurs, and man all on the same plane.

No worries ... I mean after all, that model bears no relationship with objective reality.

 

[AV1611VET]

No worries ... I mean after all, that model bears no relationship with objective reality.

Now you know why it's called "objective reality."

The Bible objects to it.

 

[sjastro]

So basically what I said in Post 16 is right?

Namely this:

Science sees the skeleton of a man in the ground then, twenty feet deeper, a dinosaur, and assumes that twenty feet represents 30 million years of layering between them.

This is wrong on two counts.
First of all scientists don't make assumptions as the fossils involve absolute dating using the methods I described in post#72.
Secondly the skeleton of a man in the ground and dinosaur fossil twenty feet deeper only tells us the dinosaur died before the human and is an example of relative dating.
Absolute dating tells us there must be at least a 65 million year gap between the human skeleton and dinosaur fossil.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is wrong on two counts.
First of all scientists don't make assumptions as the fossils involve absolute dating using the methods I described in post#72.
Secondly the skeleton of a man in the ground and dinosaur fossil twenty feet deeper only tells us the dinosaur died before the human and is an example of relative dating.
Absolute dating tells us there must be at least a 65 million year gap between the human skeleton and dinosaur fossil.

So, according to Post 72, if I was given a test, and it asked:

How many years passed between trilobites and sea shells?

I'd better answer "25 million years," or it's going to be counted wrong.

Is that correct?