Geocentricity

[Pteriax]

How do you "know" that the earth moves, that is, spins?

The verse states "The world also is established that it cannot be moved" - period. It does not say "it cannot be moved out of its appointed path".

If the Earth is allegedly spinning at 1,000 mph (as the establishment heliocentrists would have me believe), can I board a helicopter, and just hover until my destination reaches me?

If the Earth is allegedly spinning 1,000 mph west to east, why don't airplane pilots have to make 1,000 mph compensations when flying east to west? Why are their flight calculations (to my knowledge) based on a fixed, unmoving earth? Why is it possible for airplanes to fly west to east? If an average airplane is traveling at 600mph, and it travels eastward, then according to the heliocentric theory, it is actually losing ground westward hour by hour because the earth beneath is traveling 1,000mph eastward (400mph faster than the airplane can travel!)

The heliocentric theory would have me believe that the earth is spinning at 1,000 mph around its axis, 65,000+ mph around the sun, and hundreds of thousands of miles per hour around the center of the galaxy, and millions of miles per hour around the vast expanse of the universe in our galactic plane. So, yes, all these movements put into play together I would consider to be a "drunken careening" around the universe. Yet my eyes shows me that day after day, night after night, the constellations rises, rotates, and sets in the same order, contrary to the theoretical careening paths the establishment's heliocentric theory would propose.

The atmosphere that the airplanes and helicopters are in are a part of the earth and spin with it. Just like a fly in a moving car can hover without being flattened against the back window, since the air it is hovering in is moving along with the car. Besides that, we have satellites video taping the earth as it spins. I have seen them on the NASA channel. You can literally watch the earth rotate and orbit the sun. The verses that say it is fixed in place absolutely MUST mean something else, like fixed in orbit for example. No amount of funky math equations are going to change the fact that we can go up in space and watch the earth move around the sun and rotate on its axis.

 

[ananda]

More literal doesn't always mean more correct. I respect the genres in which Scripture was written. I do not believe that Solomon's bride literally had a flock of goats running down her head, and I do not believe that the Earth literally stays in one place.

"The world also is established that it cannot be moved" - how is that a metaphor? What is it a metaphor for?

 

[ananda]

The atmosphere that the airplanes and helicopters are in are a part of the earth and spin with it. Just like a fly in a moving car can hover without being flattened against the back window, since the air it is hovering in is moving along with the car. Besides that, we have satellites video taping the earth as it spins. I have seen them on the NASA channel. You can literally watch the earth rotate and orbit the sun. The verses that say it is fixed in place absolutely MUST mean something else, like fixed in orbit for example. No amount of funky math equations are going to change the fact that we can go up in space and watch the earth move around the sun and rotate on its axis.

If the atmosphere, and thus the wind, is moving along with the earth at 1,000 mph eastward, how do you explain the movement of clouds & wind patterns that go in every direction? Why can I feel a small breeze, but not the Earth's 1,000 mph eastward spin?

How is it possible that this layer of light gases (oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) is not left behind as a result of the earth spiraling through the universe at millions of miles per hour? What force allegedly keeps the atmosphere in perfect eastward sync with the "rotation" of the earth, yet is weak enough to allow birds & bugs to fly in every which direction? What about those pesky airplanes that fly using equations based on a fixed, unmoving earth?

Is there even a remote possibility that NASA's "videos" might actually be CGI?

 

[ananda]

Emeritus Distinguished Professor George Ellis, Cosmologist & Mathematician: "People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations. For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations. You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that."

Although individual scientists have admitted that geocentricity is indeed a valid interpretation of the data, "science" as a whole cannot teach geocentricity because they would then have to admit that the Earth is uniquely special in the cosmos, thus leading to the forbidden idea that there must be a Creator. By replacing it into a heliocentric universe, it's easier to see things from an atheistic viewpoint and to dismiss Earth as a product of evolution, an alleged "big-bang", and so forth.

 

[Pteriax]

If the atmosphere, and thus the wind, is moving along with the earth at 1,000 mph eastward, how do you explain the movement of clouds & wind patterns that go in every direction? Why can I feel a small breeze, but not the Earth's 1,000 mph eastward spin?

The same reason you can feel a breeze from the air vent in your car, but not the 60mph wind of the car moving. Simple physics.

How is it possible that this layer of light gases (oxygen, nitrogen, etc.) is not left behind as a result of the earth spiraling through the universe at millions of miles per hour? What force allegedly keeps the atmosphere in perfect eastward sync with the "rotation" of the earth, yet is weak enough to allow birds & bugs to fly in every which direction? What about those pesky airplanes that fly using equations based on a fixed, unmoving earth?

Gravity. The earth is fixed RELATIVE to the airplanes, in the same manner as a car seat is fixed in place relative to the car, yet the car is moving. Again, simple physics.

Is there even a remote possibility that NASA's "videos" might actually be CGI?

Nope. CGI is impossible at the super high resolution of the NASA films. It would look pixely and animated. You should check out the NASA channel sometime, it's breathtaking seeing earth from space.

 

[Pteriax]

Although individual scientists have admitted that geocentricity is indeed a valid interpretation of the data, "science" as a whole cannot teach geocentricity because they would then have to admit that the Earth is uniquely special in the cosmos, thus leading to the forbidden idea that there must be a Creator. By replacing it into a heliocentric universe, it's easier to see things from an atheistic viewpoint and to dismiss Earth as a product of evolution, an alleged "big-bang", and so forth.

False. Science has very well established that earth has a special place in the universe. Watch "The Privileged Planet" Or read "The Case for a Creator" To see all the scientific evidence that proves creation.

 

[ananda]

The same reason you can feel a breeze from the air vent in your car, but not the 60mph wind of the car moving. Simple physics.
Gravity. The earth is fixed RELATIVE to the airplanes, in the same manner as a car seat is fixed in place relative to the car, yet the car is moving. Again, simple physics.

Pray tell, how does gravity maintain its grip on the atmosphere at tens of millions of miles per hour to overcome centrifugal, kinetic, inertial forces, yet still allows the smallest bug to fly in whatever direction it desires?

Nope. CGI is impossible at the super high resolution of the NASA films. It would look pixely and animated. You should check out the NASA channel sometime, it's breathtaking seeing earth from space.

Have you seen CGI in movies lately? It's not impossible, it's probable.

 

[ananda]

False. Science has very well established that earth has a special place in the universe. Watch "The Privileged Planet" Or read "The Case for a Creator" To see all the scientific evidence that proves creation.

I didn't say heliocentricism disproves creation. I said that heliocentricism allows atheism & evolution an easier breathing space.

 

[Rubiks]

I just find it extremely implausible that that verse is trying to tell us a scientific truth. Why would God want to tell us whether the earth moves or not? Bottom line: the Bible is not a science book, so quit interpreting it like its trying to tell us science

 

[ananda]

I just find it extremely implausible that that verse is trying to tell us a scientific truth. Why would God want to tell us whether the earth moves or not? Bottom line: the Bible is not a science book, so quit interpreting it like its trying to tell us science

Do you deny that Scripture teaches facts? "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." - Job 26:7

I'm looking for Bible conservatives - not liberals - who believe what Scripture says when it says that the Earth cannot be moved, but thank you for your contribution

 

[Pteriax]

Pray tell, how does gravity maintain its grip on the atmosphere at tens of millions of miles per hour to overcome centrifugal, kinetic, inertial forces, yet still allows the smallest bug to fly in whatever direction it desires?

It does not hold every molecule or atom, the atmosphere is (very slowly) bleeding into space. And "tens of millions of MPH" is a bit of an extreme exaggeration (hyperbole) you know? Try thousands. And yes those forces are all in perfect balance. Almost as if the earth were miraculously and ingeniously designed and set in its place in the heavens.

Have you seen CGI in movies lately? It's not impossible, it's probable.

I have seen it - it absolutely awful. I had until recently a 60 inch HD projection TV, and anything with CGI in it looks like a cheesy cartoon. The NASA videos are ten times higher resolution (conservatively) and so if they were CGI would look ten times more fake. So yes, it is impossible.

I didn't say heliocentricism disproves creation. I said that heliocentricism allows atheism & evolution an easier breathing space.

I never said anything about evolution. That movie and book talk about our planets place in the universe - which is intrinsically linked to creation, but the fact is that we orbit the sun. And rotate. And the sun (along with out planet) orbits the center of the galaxy. And the galaxy (with us in it as well) is moving through the universe. And the universe is expanding, pulling us with it as well. Yet the surface of the earth is 'fixed' RELATIVE to us - which is just how God designed it.

 

[Pteriax]

I'm looking for Bible conservatives - not liberals - who believe what Scripture says when it says that the Earth cannot be moved, but thank you for your contribution

Geocentrism is actually neither a conservative nor a liberal theology. It is in fact what we call unorthodox theology. That is a fact. There is a seperate forum for that, by the way.

Here is another fact - the earth cannot be moved from its orbit.

 

[ananda]

It does not hold every molecule or atom, the atmosphere is (very slowly) bleeding into space. And "tens of millions of MPH" is a bit of an extreme exaggeration (hyperbole) you know? Try thousands. And yes those forces are all in perfect balance. Almost as if the earth were miraculously and ingeniously designed and set in its place in the heavens.

No. The earth is alleged to spin on its axis at approximately 1,040 mph at the equator. The earth is alleged to move around the sun at 67,062 mph. The solar system is alleged to spin around the galactic center at 514,000mph. The galaxy is alleged to be moving at 2.24 million mph ... Altogether, when added together, the Earth is alleged to move at multi millions of miles per hour in the universe. It is beyond incredulous to believe that gravity can hold the atmosphere to the earth at these speeds when it can't prevent a fruitfly from going whatsoever way it desires.

I noticed you never touched my question regarding airplanes & fixed-earth equations.

 

[ananda]

Geocentrism is actually neither a conservative nor a liberal theology. It is in fact what we call unorthodox theology. That is a fact. There is a seperate forum for that, by the way. Here is another fact - the earth cannot be moved from its orbit.

Here's a fact for you ... Heliocentrism is unorthodox theology & only recently imagined. Geocentrism was the orthodox belief for the first 16 centuries of church history, and beyond, if including the OT church.

 

[Pteriax]

Here's a fact for you ... Heliocentrism is unorthodox theology & only recently imagined. Geocentrism was the orthodox belief for the first 16 centuries of church history, and beyond, if including the OT church.

False. Or prove it?

 

[Pteriax]

No. The earth is alleged to spin on its axis at approximately 1,040 mph at the equator. The earth is alleged to move around the sun at 67,062 mph. The solar system is alleged to spin around the galactic center at 514,000mph. The galaxy is alleged to be moving at 2.24 million mph ... Altogether, when added together, the Earth is alleged to move at multi millions of miles per hour in the universe. It is beyond incredulous to believe that gravity can hold the atmosphere to the earth at these speeds when it can't prevent a fruitfly from going whatsoever way it desires.

No it isn't. There is nothing in space to create friction that would blow the atmosphere away or whatever you think would happen. It's just like a fruit fly in a car that is moving down the highway, yet is unaffected by the speed and can maneuver and hover as if the car were standing still. As I already explained.

I noticed you never touched my question regarding airplanes & fixed-earth equations.

Yes I did. The earth is only fixed RELATIVE to things within its atmosphere, just as a car moving down the highway is fixed relative to a fly moving around inside it. Therefore the surface is fixed in relation to the airplanes, yet the whole thing (atmosphere and all) are careening through space. Simple physics.

 

[Sketcher]

"The world also is established that it cannot be moved" - how is that a metaphor? What is it a metaphor for?

It means no one can dislodge it from its orbit unless God allows it. If you take that literally, do you believe that Solomon's bride had goats coming out of her head? If not, why not?

 

[ananda]

False. Or prove it?

"The geocentric model held sway into the early modern age, but from the late 16th century onward was gradually superseded by the heliocentric model of Copernicus, Galileo and Kepler." (wiki)

The modern, liberal, unorthodox heliocentric theory you support will not be confused with the historically conservative & orthodox geocentric model.

 

[ananda]

No it isn't. There is nothing in space to create friction that would blow the atmosphere away or whatever you think would happen. It's just like a fruit fly in a car that is moving down the highway, yet is unaffected by the speed and can maneuver and hover as if the car were standing still. As I already explained. Yes I did. The earth is only fixed RELATIVE to things within its atmosphere, just as a car moving down the highway is fixed relative to a fly moving around inside it. Therefore the surface is fixed in relation to the airplanes, yet the whole thing (atmosphere and all) are careening through space. Simple physics.

How far away should an object go until it is no longer "fixed" with the surface of the Earth? In any case, I disagree with your conclusions. Show me verses from Scripture which support your liberalism & heliocentrism.

 

[ananda]

It means no one can dislodge it from its orbit unless God allows it. If you take that literally, do you believe that Solomon's bride had goats coming out of her head? If not, why not?

The "goats" is a figure of speech, specifically metaphor. What figure of speech is used in the verse "The world also is established that it cannot be moved"?