Gentiles aren't now & never were,under Mosaic law

[Akita Suggagaki]

God gave Israel laws dealing with cleanliness. Until the middle ages when someone decided to actually listen to God in His Word, all sorts of diseases were being passed among patients in a hospital ward because the doctor washed his dirty hands in the same bowl of water. God told the priests to wash under 'running' water. Thus there are still many things in the Old Testament law that deals directly with science of how God created this world. It ain't all about religion.

Yes, there is overlap.

 

[Davy]

Yes, there is overlap.

God's laws that weren't nailed to Christ's cross also include civil laws. That's actually what the last five commandments of the Ten Commandments are about.

I don't know if it's still there, but the entrance way to the U.S. Supreme Court chamber included a wood carving of Moses carrying the stone Ten Commandments. Years ago tour guides were told to say the tablets were something else to try and keep down controversy.

The Ten Commandments and the Supreme Court - The American Vision


Those in Christ need to realize there are crept in Communists behind some Church organizations today, and certainly in American government also. One of their aims is to replace revealed religion (i.e., from The Bible) with socialism. If God's people are not aware of these things happening today, it's probably from crept in unawares in the pulpits pushing socialism. Trying to replace the Ten Commandments with something else surely is proof of that evil working.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

I think your socialism/commandments polarization makes no sense. Much of revealed law is about justice for the poor, the oppressed, the disenfranchised, the alien. Why bring "socialism" into this. It is just a word to invoke argument.

 

[Davy]

I think your socialism/commandments polarization makes no sense. Much of revealed law is about justice for the poor, the oppressed, the disenfranchised, the alien. Why bring "socialism" into this. It is just a word to invoke argument.

Thanks for speaking up and 'marking' yourself. I knew what I said would bring some Leftist-Socialists out of the woodwork.

And why bring that up? Because it is a fact. The ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen in his 1958 book The Naked Communist outlined 45 strategic points the Communists have in their long-range 1958 plan to take over the West. One of their strategies included replacing "revealed religion" with intellectualism, pointing to socialism. And Lenin said, "the goal of socialism is Communism".

Also, I recall reading Malachi Martin's book on the Jesuits. He quoted a certain pope that visited some Jesuits in Latin America. That pope observed them and said, "Oh, so you're not all Marxists!" So HOW can a Catholic Jesuit priest ever be a Marxist? Karl Marx's philosophy was atheist.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Thanks for speaking up and 'marking' yourself. I knew what I said would bring some Leftist-Socialists out of the woodwork.

And why bring that up? Because it is a fact. The ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen in his 1958 book The Naked Communist outlined 45 strategic points the Communists have in their long-range 1958 plan to take over the West. One of their strategies included replacing "revealed religion" with intellectualism, pointing to socialism. And Lenin said, "the goal of socialism is Communism".

Also, I recall reading Malachi Martin's book on the Jesuits. He quoted a certain pope that visited some Jesuits in Latin America. That pope observed them and said, "Oh, so you're not all Marxists!" So HOW can a Catholic Jesuit priest ever be a Marxist? Karl Marx's philosophy was atheist.

Your black and white dichotomy serves no good purpose. Things are more nuanced than that.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Just Curious,

THE NAKED COMMUNIST: 45 COMMUNIST GOALS
On Jan. 10, 1963, Congressman Albert S. Herlong Jr. of Florida read a list of 45 Communist goals into the Congressional
Record. The list was derived from researcher Cleon Skousen’s book “The Naked Communist.” These principles are well
worth revisiting toda
y in order to gain insights into the thinking and strategies of much of our so
-
called liberal elite:
1.
U.S. should accept coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2.
U.S. should be willing to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic wa
r. [Note: These encapsulate the Kennan Doctrine, which
advocated for the "containment" of communism. Establishment figures supporting the amoral containment policy at least
implicitly worked with the communists in scaring the wits out of the American peopl
e concerning atomic war. President Ronald
Reagan undid the doctrine when he took an aggressive stand against the Evil Empire by backing freedom fighters from around th
e
world that were struggling against the left
-
wing communist jackboot. As a result, the S
oviet Union and its satellites imploded, a
considerable and unexpected setback to the international communist edifice.]
3.
Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the U.S. would be a demonstration of "moral strength." [Note: The nuclear free
ze
advo
cates supported a freeze on American nuclear development only. Rarely were Soviet nukes or those of other nations
mentioned in their self
-
righteous tirades. The same advocates now call for reducing American military might, claiming that there is
something
immoral about America preserving its military pre
-
eminence in the world.]
4.
Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be use
d for
war. [Note: Today, there are calls to end the
embargo on the slave island of Cuba, there were complaints about the embargo
against Iraq, and the U.S., not Saddam Hussein, was blamed for the suffering of the Iraqi people. Would they have advocated f
or
free trade with Hitler and his National Socialist r
egime?]
5.
Extend long
-
term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6.
Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. [Note: Such aid and trade over decades contributed
greatly to the left
-
wing communist liquidation of over 100
million people worldwide, according to the well
-
documented "Black
Book of Communism." This aid and trade marks a shameful chapter in American history. Without the aid and trade, the left
-
wing
international communist behemoth would have imploded on its own
rot a lot sooner and umpteen millions would have been saved
from poverty, misery, starvation and death.]
7.
Grant recognition of Red China and admission of Red China to the U.N. [Note: Not only did President Jimmy Carter fulfill this
goal but he also bet
rayed America’s allies in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iran, Afghanistan, Angola and elsewhere.]
8.
Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by fr
ee
elections under supervision of
the U.N.
9.
Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progr
ess.
10.
Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11.
Promote the U.N. as the only hope
for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one
-
world government with
its own independent armed forces. [Note: There are still American intellectuals, and elected members of Congress, who dream o
f
an eventual one world governmen
t and who view the U.N., founded by communists such as Alger Hiss, the first secretary
-
general,
as the instrument to bring this about. World government was also the dream of Adolf Hitler and J.V. Stalin. World government
was the dream of Osama bin Laden an
d the 9/11 hijackers.]
12.
Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. [Note: While the idea of banning any political party runs contrary to notio
ns of
American freedom and liberty, notions that are the exact opposite of those held by the left
-
wing
communists themselves,
nevertheless these goals sought to undermine the constitutional obligation of Congress to investigate subversion. The weakeni
ng of
our government’s ability to conduct such investigations led to the attack of 9/11.]
13.
Do away wit
h loyalty oaths. [Note: It is entirely proper and appropriate for our government to expect employees, paid by the
American taxpayer, to take an oath of loyalty.]
14.
Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15.
Capture one or both of the political parties in the U.S. [Note: In his book, "Reagan’s War," Peter Schweizer demonstrates th
e
astonishing degree to which communists and communist sympathizers have penetrated the Democratic Party. In his book,
Schweize
r writes about the presidential election of 1979.]
16.
Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil right
s. [Note:
This strategy goes back to the founding of the American Civil Li
berties Union by Fabian Socialists Roger Baldwin and John
Dewey and Communists William Z. Foster and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn among others.]
17.
Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soft
en the
curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18.
Gain control of all student newspapers.
19.
Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations that are under Communist attack. [No
te:The success
of these goals, from a communist perspective, is obvious. Is there any doubt this is so?]
20.
Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy
-
making positions.
21.
Gain control of key positions in
radio, TV & motion pictures.
22.
Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to
"eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings," substituting shapeless, awkward and mean
ingless forms.
23.
Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24.
Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25.
Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting inappropriate contentography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio
and TV. [Note: This is the Gramscian agenda of the "long march through the institutions" spelled out explicitly: gradual take
over
of the "means of communication" and then using those vehicles to debauch the culture and weaken the will of the individual to
resist.]
26.
Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural and healthy." [Note: Today those few wh
o still have the
courage to advocate public morality are denounced and viciously attacked. Most Americans are entirely unwitting regarding the
motives behind this agenda.]
27.
Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion.
Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for
intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch." [Note: This has been largely accomplished through the commun
ist
infiltration of the National Council of Churches, Conservative and Reform Judais
m, and the Catholic seminaries.]
28.
Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separa
tion of
church and state"
29.
Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to
cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30.
Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocr
ats who had no concern for the "common man."
31.
Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor
part
of "the big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Comm
unists took over. [Note: Obliterating the American
past, with its antecedents in principles of freedom, liberty and private ownership is a major goal of the communists then and
now.]
32.
Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any
part of the culture
–
education, social agencies, welfare
programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33.
Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34.
Eliminate the House Committee on Un
-
American Activi
ties.
35.
Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36.
Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37.
Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38.
Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behaviora
l problems as psychiatric disorders
which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat. [Note: The Soviets used to send "social misfits" and those deemed
politically incorrect to massive mental institutions called gulags. The Red Chinese call them lao
gai. Hitler called them
concentration camps.]
39.
Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose
communist goals. [Note: Psychiatry remains a bulwark of the communist agenda of
fostering self
-
criticism and docility.]
40.
Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. [Note: Done! The sovereign family is the sing
le
most powerful obstacle to authoritarian control.]
41.
Emphasize the need to rais
e children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and
retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents. [Note: Outcome
-
based education, values clarification or whatever they’re
calling it this year.]
42.
Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and spec
ial
interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems. [Note: This describ
es the
dialectical fostering of group consciousness and conflict, which furthers the interests of authoritarianism.]
43.
Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self
-
government.
44.
Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45.
Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems.
Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdi
ction over nations and individuals alike.
THE NAKED COMMUNIST: 45 COMMUNIST GOALS / the-naked-communist-45-communist-goals.pdf / PDF4PRO

 

[Davy]

Your black and white dichotomy serves no good purpose. Things are more nuanced than that.

God's Word shows that either one believes on Him and follows Him through His Son, or one does not. Jesus gave this via the analogy of fruit from a tree. Either make the tree and its fruit good, or make the tree and fruit corrupt, for the tree is known by its fruit (Matthew 12). There's only 2 choices.

Communist philosophy originates from Karl Marx's philosophy, not Jesus.

 

[Davy]

@Akita Suggagaki asks why bring the idea of Socialism into this discussion about God's laws, because he thinks the word socialism is just a word to invoke argument. Well, world Socialism is not just a term to start arguments with, it is a very real movement by the globalist elite that want to destroy our God-given rights and dictate to us how and what we should believe instead. Not only do they wish to do that, but they actually want to literally destroy... a lot of the world's population:

The Georgia Guidestones and the Globalist Plan to Reduce Humanity to Half a Billion

God's law is not just about religious matters. God's laws help govern Christian society, and HELPS PROTECT our rights and property, and pursuit of happiness, and right to worship, and many other things that Communist society limits.

God has temporarily given Satan to control the powers on this earth, and he wants to rule over everyone here. He knows those in Christ stand in his way, so he and his pagan servants here on earth have plans to execute millions of us. There is no better political system on earth than Communism to do this, since Communist governments have been responsible for millions of executions of its own peoples, just because those executed did not accept Communist philosophy.

Communists will claim their system is about peace, equity, freeing the oppressed, alleviating the poor, etc., when the history of Communist governments have practiced genocide on the scale of millions, removed people's property, split up families, induced forced labor camps, kept millions on the edge of starvation to control them, ran execution squads for indiscriminate murder used as a scare tactic to keep people in line; the history of Communist law is one that aligns more with Satan than with God.

 

[pescador]

Just Curious,

THE NAKED COMMUNIST: 45 COMMUNIST GOALS
On Jan. 10, 1963, Congressman Albert S. Herlong Jr. of Florida read a list of 45 Communist goals into the Congressional
Record. The list was derived from researcher Cleon Skousen’s book “The Naked Communist.” These principles are well
worth revisiting toda
y in order to gain insights into the thinking and strategies of much of our so
-
called liberal elite:
1.
U.S. should accept coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
2.
U.S. should be willing to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic wa
r. [Note: These encapsulate the Kennan Doctrine, which
advocated for the "containment" of communism. Establishment figures supporting the amoral containment policy at least
implicitly worked with the communists in scaring the wits out of the American peopl
e concerning atomic war. President Ronald
Reagan undid the doctrine when he took an aggressive stand against the Evil Empire by backing freedom fighters from around th
e
world that were struggling against the left
-
wing communist jackboot. As a result, the S
oviet Union and its satellites imploded, a
considerable and unexpected setback to the international communist edifice.]
3.
Develop the illusion that total disarmament by the U.S. would be a demonstration of "moral strength." [Note: The nuclear free
ze
advo
cates supported a freeze on American nuclear development only. Rarely were Soviet nukes or those of other nations
mentioned in their self
-
righteous tirades. The same advocates now call for reducing American military might, claiming that there is
something
immoral about America preserving its military pre
-
eminence in the world.]
4.
Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be use
d for
war. [Note: Today, there are calls to end the
embargo on the slave island of Cuba, there were complaints about the embargo
against Iraq, and the U.S., not Saddam Hussein, was blamed for the suffering of the Iraqi people. Would they have advocated f
or
free trade with Hitler and his National Socialist r
egime?]
5.
Extend long
-
term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
6.
Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. [Note: Such aid and trade over decades contributed
greatly to the left
-
wing communist liquidation of over 100
million people worldwide, according to the well
-
documented "Black
Book of Communism." This aid and trade marks a shameful chapter in American history. Without the aid and trade, the left
-
wing
international communist behemoth would have imploded on its own
rot a lot sooner and umpteen millions would have been saved
from poverty, misery, starvation and death.]
7.
Grant recognition of Red China and admission of Red China to the U.N. [Note: Not only did President Jimmy Carter fulfill this
goal but he also bet
rayed America’s allies in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Iran, Afghanistan, Angola and elsewhere.]
8.
Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the Germany question by fr
ee
elections under supervision of
the U.N.
9.
Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the U.S. has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progr
ess.
10.
Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
11.
Promote the U.N. as the only hope
for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one
-
world government with
its own independent armed forces. [Note: There are still American intellectuals, and elected members of Congress, who dream o
f
an eventual one world governmen
t and who view the U.N., founded by communists such as Alger Hiss, the first secretary
-
general,
as the instrument to bring this about. World government was also the dream of Adolf Hitler and J.V. Stalin. World government
was the dream of Osama bin Laden an
d the 9/11 hijackers.]
12.
Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. [Note: While the idea of banning any political party runs contrary to notio
ns of
American freedom and liberty, notions that are the exact opposite of those held by the left
-
wing
communists themselves,
nevertheless these goals sought to undermine the constitutional obligation of Congress to investigate subversion. The weakeni
ng of
our government’s ability to conduct such investigations led to the attack of 9/11.]
13.
Do away wit
h loyalty oaths. [Note: It is entirely proper and appropriate for our government to expect employees, paid by the
American taxpayer, to take an oath of loyalty.]
14.
Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
15.
Capture one or both of the political parties in the U.S. [Note: In his book, "Reagan’s War," Peter Schweizer demonstrates th
e
astonishing degree to which communists and communist sympathizers have penetrated the Democratic Party. In his book,
Schweize
r writes about the presidential election of 1979.]
16.
Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions, by claiming their activities violate civil right
s. [Note:
This strategy goes back to the founding of the American Civil Li
berties Union by Fabian Socialists Roger Baldwin and John
Dewey and Communists William Z. Foster and Elizabeth Gurley Flynn among others.]
17.
Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for Socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soft
en the
curriculum. Get control of teachers associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18.
Gain control of all student newspapers.
19.
Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations that are under Communist attack. [No
te:The success
of these goals, from a communist perspective, is obvious. Is there any doubt this is so?]
20.
Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, policy
-
making positions.
21.
Gain control of key positions in
radio, TV & motion pictures.
22.
Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all form of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to
"eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings," substituting shapeless, awkward and mean
ingless forms.
23.
Control art critics and directors of art museums. " Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."
24.
Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.
25.
Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting inappropriate contentography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio
and TV. [Note: This is the Gramscian agenda of the "long march through the institutions" spelled out explicitly: gradual take
over
of the "means of communication" and then using those vehicles to debauch the culture and weaken the will of the individual to
resist.]
26.
Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural and healthy." [Note: Today those few wh
o still have the
courage to advocate public morality are denounced and viciously attacked. Most Americans are entirely unwitting regarding the
motives behind this agenda.]
27.
Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion.
Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for
intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch." [Note: This has been largely accomplished through the commun
ist
infiltration of the National Council of Churches, Conservative and Reform Judais
m, and the Catholic seminaries.]
28.
Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the grounds that it violates the principle of "separa
tion of
church and state"
29.
Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to
cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
30.
Discredit the American founding fathers. Present them as selfish aristocr
ats who had no concern for the "common man."
31.
Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor
part
of "the big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Comm
unists took over. [Note: Obliterating the American
past, with its antecedents in principles of freedom, liberty and private ownership is a major goal of the communists then and
now.]
32.
Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any
part of the culture
–
education, social agencies, welfare
programs, mental health clinics, etc.
33.
Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
34.
Eliminate the House Committee on Un
-
American Activi
ties.
35.
Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
36.
Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
37.
Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
38.
Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behaviora
l problems as psychiatric disorders
which no one but psychiatrists can understand or treat. [Note: The Soviets used to send "social misfits" and those deemed
politically incorrect to massive mental institutions called gulags. The Red Chinese call them lao
gai. Hitler called them
concentration camps.]
39.
Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose
communist goals. [Note: Psychiatry remains a bulwark of the communist agenda of
fostering self
-
criticism and docility.]
40.
Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. [Note: Done! The sovereign family is the sing
le
most powerful obstacle to authoritarian control.]
41.
Emphasize the need to rais
e children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and
retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents. [Note: Outcome
-
based education, values clarification or whatever they’re
calling it this year.]
42.
Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and spec
ial
interest groups should rise up and make a "united force" to solve economic, political or social problems. [Note: This describ
es the
dialectical fostering of group consciousness and conflict, which furthers the interests of authoritarianism.]
43.
Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self
-
government.
44.
Internationalize the Panama Canal.
45.
Repeal the Connally Reservation so the U.S. cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction over domestic problems.
Give the World Court jurisdiction over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdi
ction over nations and individuals alike.
THE NAKED COMMUNIST: 45 COMMUNIST GOALS / the-naked-communist-45-communist-goals.pdf / PDF4PRO

Quoting a Congressman who referenced a secular book written 51 years ago is supposed to prove what?

1) It's obvious that your intent is to frame the so-called liberal elite in the light of an obviously biased one-person philosophy.

2) What does this have to do with Gentiles being under the Mosaic Law, the subject of the discussion?

3) Why is this being posted on a Christian forum? There is no relevance!

 

[Soyeong]

Ex 11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that "the LORD doth put a difference between the Nations and Israel".
(NOTE: The LORD put a difference between the Nations/gentiles/dogs & Israel His chosen people) BTW: The same LORD later refers to the gentile/Canaanite woman as a dog. Gentiles were viewed as unclean dogs, bastards, outside of covenant seals)

God made a distinction between them so that Israel could serve as a light and a blessing to the nations, so you rejecting their light and blessing that they have for you because God made a distinction undermines the point of making that distinction (Isaiah 2:2-3, 49:6).

Ex 19:
3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles had/have NO PART in this law covenant)

In Exodus 12:38, there was a mixed multitude that went up out of Egypt with them, so there were Gentiles at the foot of Sinai. In Joshua 8:33, Israel was inclusive of both the foreigner and the native born, so there have always been righteous Gentiles who have become followers of the God of Israel, who have sought by faith to learn how to walk in His ways in obedience to His laws.

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
(MY NOTE: Law of Moses was given to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel (reread vs 3)

While the Mosaic Law was given to Israel, that does not mean that it was meant only for Israel to follow because it was given to equip Israel to be a light and a blessing to the nations by teaching them to obey it.

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: When Moses gives the law to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel: They ALL AGREED, to the words the Lord had spoken)

Unbelievers are required to obey God's laws and to refrain from sin even though they didn't agree to a covenant with God, so not agreeing to the Mosaic Covenant does not mean that you aren't obligated to obey God's laws. God is sovereign, so we are obligated to obey Him regardless of whether or not we agree to any covenant with Him.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(MY NOTE: Circumcision: A blood covenant made with hands & required under Mosaic law)

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(MY NOTE: Gentiles referred to as the Uncircumcision (vs 11) were without God, having no covenant promises & a hopeless future)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(MY NOTE: But, NOW! = Post death & resurrection/new Melchizedek covenant. Believing gentiles are no longer bastards outside of covenant seals)

In Ephesians 2:19, everything said in verse 12 is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer strangers or aliens, but are now fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, so Gentiles also have the delight of getting to obey the laws given to Israel.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
(MY PARSING NOTE: Gentiles were never under/having the Mosaic law)

This said that Gentiles will be nature do the things contained in the Mosaic Law, which completely undermines your position. In Romans 2:13, only doers of the Mosaic Law will be justified, so the main reason to ague against obeying it is if you don't want yourself and others to become justified.

Council at Jerusalem
Acts 15:
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
(MY NOTE: Jews try to place gentiles under Mosaic law)

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
(NOTE: These Christ rejecting/unregenerated Pharisees claimed gentile believers needed to be circumcised & commanded them to keep the law of Moses).

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
(NOTE: Peter revisits his trip to Cornelius house (Acts 10). And how by word of mouth gentiles believed on Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Were gentiles received Christ's eternal salvation sealing baptism with His indwelling Holy Spirit)

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(NOTE: These gentiles heard about Christ's sin payment & resurrection. They believed: NO repentance, water baptism, circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No Mosaic law keeping etc. Thru faith & faith alone they were eternally sealed with God's indwelling Holy Spirit)

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(NOTE: Gentiles hearts were Purified by water? NO! Purified by the Holy Spirit via Faith)

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NOTE: Peter say's neither our forefathers, nor us, could bear the yoke, of keeping the law of Moses with fidelity)

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
(NOTE: Peter proclaims God has showed us, ALL, are saved by grace thru faith just as we've been)

In Acts 15:1, a group of unbelievers from Judea was wanting to require Gentiles to become circumcised in order to become saved, which was never the purpose for which God commanded circumcision, so they were promoting a false works-based salvation that was not in accordance with what God has commanded. They were opposed in Acts 15:5 by a group of believers from among the Pharisees who argued that Gentiles needed to obey the Mosaic Law and become circumcised, which was a matter of faith because they were believers, so they were promoting faith-based salvation. The Jerusalem Council supported faith-based salvation, so they ruled in favor of the second group against the first group. No one there took the position that Gentiles aren't required to obey the Mosaic Law. In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey, so if Acts 15:10-11 had ben arguing against the group in Acts 15:5, then they would have been in direct disagreement with God and would have therefore been wrong. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is give to those who obey God, so you are wrong to assume that the Gentiles weren't living in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
(NOTE: The apostles send letters to all the gentile believing churches in Antioch, Syria & Cilicia.)

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
(NOTE: The letters written & sent by Christ chosen apostles. Telling the gentiles you are not, nor were you ever, required to be circumcised or keep Mosaic law)

Again, this was a ruling against the first group, not the second.

 

[Soyeong]

The 10 commandments were given (as posted) to: the House of Jacob who's name God changed (Gen 32:28) to Israel. Jacob's children became the Nation of Israel.

Having said that, not being under Mosaic law doesn't mean no rules/law.

Many of the laws that were given at Sinai were given in place throughout Genesis, so the fact that they were included as part of the Mosaic Covenant does not imply that they are limited to it. For example, it was sin to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9 long before the Mosaic Covenant, during it, and after it has become obsolete, so there is nothing about any of God's covenant being made or becoming obsolete that changes which laws we should follow.

Matt 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(NOTE: Also see: Mk 12:29, Jn 13:34, 15:12, 1 Jn 3:11, 23, 1 Jn 4:7)

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If we truly love God & our brother: We won't covet, steal, murder etc.

All of the laws that God has given are examples of what it means to love God and our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so they are all connected. Love fulfills the law because that is what is is essentially about how to do, so if someone's obedience to the command to love is not inclusive of obedience to God's other commandments, then they are not treating it as being the fulfillment of the other commandments. If love God and our brother, then we won't covet, steal, murder, or disobey anything else in the Mosaic Law.

1 Jn 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the Law:

We've all have broken God's law. No one can say he's not a sinner UNTIL a means is provided (not to take away a the law) but to remove the sin, which is the transgression of the law.

Under the law (God gave Moses, to give, to Israel), compliance invoked blessings (Deut 28:1-14). Non-compliance invoked curses (Deut 28:15-68). When Jesus became a curse (Gal 3:13) He REDEEMED every believers from all non-compliance curses/penalties invoked from breaking the law (Rom 5:20).

Being set free from the curse of living in disobedience to the Mosaic Law is being set free to enjoy the blessing of living in obedience to it.

When scripture say's you're not under the law. It means the penalties due for non-compliance are no longer levied/imposed. Jesus paid every believers due wage (death). He took all the laws sin invoked judgments/curses upon Himself for us.

Jesus sin atoning payment is found in His: death (sins required wage PAID), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Fathers receipt, sins payment received & accepted). Is seized/accessed via FAITH (Rom 5:1-2, 10:9-10, Eph 1:13,. 2:8) placed in the faithful, obedient work & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!

In Roman 6:14, it describes the law that we aren't under as being a law where sin had dominion over us, which does not describe the Mosaic Law, which is a law where holiness, righteousness, and goodness have dominion over use (Romans 7:12), but rather it is the law of sin where sin had dominion over us. In Romans 6:15, being under grace does not mean that we are permitted to sin, so we are still under the Mosaic Law. While there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ because he paid the penalty for our sin, it is also true that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked, and he walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law, so being in Christ does not remove our obligation to obey it, but just the opposite.

Christ's righteousness (Jer 23:6 & 33:16) is imputed/transferred (Rom 4:3-8) onto us & our sins are imputed/transferred onto Christ. While the Temple was operating the High Priest had authority to impute/transfer sin (Lev 16:21).

When we have a character trait, then we will express it through our actions, so to say that someone is righteous is to say that they are someone who expresses God's righteousness through their actions, and the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to do that.

Lk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: Even for the Jew Mosaic law was preached & in effect, UNTIL, the death & resurrection of Jesus the Christ)

In Luke 16:16-18, Jesus said that the Mosaic Law was until John and that since then the Gospel of the Kingdom has been preached, namely to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand. The Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is, so the fact that he was speaking about it still being taught after John shows that he was not speaking about it ending with him. Furthermore, Jesus went on in verse 17-18 to teach obedience to the Mosaic Law and to say that it would be easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for the least part of the Mosaic Law to pass away, so he was not speaking about a law that he thought had already ended. In addition, neither Jesus nor John went around teaching people to stop repenting, but just the opposite.

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
(MY NOTE: The Mosaic law is just, BUT, can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous)

So if we should do what is just, holy, and righteous then we should obey the Mosaic Law.

Paul's Holy Spirit inspired writing proclaims:
The law, written & engraved in stones, is an administrator of death (Col 3:7) & a administrator of condemnation (Col 3:9)

2 Cor 3:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
MY NOTE: Written to believers (2 Cor 1:1) The letter/law/administers death. But, the NT Holy Spirit's administration is, thru faith, life giving).

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(MY NOTE: Mosaic law was put on notice at Jesus death when the temple veil was torn in 1/2 (Matt 27:51). And retired completely when Jesus sent the eternal life giving Holy Spirit at Pentecost/Acts 2:4)

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
(MY NOTE: Context, Mosaic law is an administrator of condemnation. BTW there is NO condemnation in Christ believers/Rom 8:1)

The fact that the Mosaic Law is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to do that.

Gal 2:21 do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(MY NOTE: Righteousness isn't accessed/obtained by law keeping)

The fact that we do not earn our righteousness by obeying God doesn't mean that we aren't obligated to obey God.

Gal 3:
19 It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
(MY NOTE: The law was added & in effect, UNTIL, Christ/the promised seed should come)

Christ did not go around telling people that the law had ended and that they needed to stop repenting, but just the opposite. It is not as through that now that Christ has come we should go back to living in sin.

23 Before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed
(MY NOTE: BEFORE faith came, the law was in effect)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
(MY NOTE: The law is a teacher, it's job/purpose is to identify, expose & condemn sin. Only after we understand & acknowledge we have sinned against our creator God's sovereign rule. Can we by faith be justified = Judicially proclaimed righteous by our sovereign creator God)

God's law doesn't just identify sin, but also teaches us to do what is holy, righteous, and good in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
(MY NOTE: Once we've acknowledged & confessed our sins. Placed/proclaimed our faith in Christ's sin atoning payment. Found in His death, burial & resurrection (1 Cor 15:1-4). We are no longer under the curses/penalties invoked from breaking the law. (Deut 28:15-60)

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that we aren't still obligated to obey the Mosaic Law. Someone who disregarded everything their schoolmaster taught them after they graduated would be missing the point of a schoolmaster.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(MY NOTE: The law teaches/schools/equips us with the knowledge to understand what sin is)

So if you agree that we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey the Mosaic Law.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
( MY NOTE: The law teaches/reveals sins, lust, covetousness etc)

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: Written to NT believers (Rom 1:7). The righteousness of God written of by Moses & the prophets is now revealed separate from/without the works of the law)

The Law and the prophet testify to this, so this has always been the one and only way to become righteous.

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(MY NOTE: Context vs 1, Israel. Because Israel was going about to establish their own righteousness thru Mosaic law keeping. They had missed/fallen from God's grace)

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(MY NOTE: Christ ended accessing righteousness thru workslaw keeping)

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowledge, so they failed to attain righteousness because they pursued the Mosaic Law as through righteousness were by works in an effort to establish their own, instead of pursuing the Mosaic Law as through righteousness were by faith, for Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. Nothing in this passage has always to do with Christ ending accessing righteousness through law keeping, nor can something be ended for a purpose for which it was never given.

1 Cor 15:
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

In Romans 7:7, it says that God's law is not sinful, however 1 Corinthians 15:55-57 is referring to a law that is sinful, therefore it is not referring to God's law, but rather it is the law of sin that is the strength of sin.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: A GIFT is given, not earned. Having said that, a gift can be rejected) When we accept Gods GIFT of GRACE; mix it with our FAITH in Christ's redemptive sin payment & resurrection. We are SAVED & SEALED with Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit. See: Eph 1:14 & 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 & 5: Tim 1:14)

To use an analogy, if someone were to teach me how to play an instrument as a gift to me, then their lessons would themselves be the content of their gift, and participating in their lessons would be doing nothing to earn them, but rather that is what it would mean to receive them. Our salvation is the same king of gift where God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law (Psalms 119:29, Titus 2:11-14).

Eph 2:9 says, Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(MY NOTE: In regards to salvation our own works are worthless. It's our FAITH placed in God & Christ's FINISHED redemptive work & resurrection)

In Ephesians 2:10, we have been made new creations in Christ to do good works, so while we do not earn our salvation by our works, doing good works is nevertheless still an itnegral part of our salvation and far from worthless.

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(MY NOTE: Grace has a name it's Jesus Christ)

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is essentially described as being trained grace to do good works, so grace is not always opposed to works, but is only opposed to works that are done for the purpose of earning something because gifts are not something that can be earned.

AMP Bible:
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (worldliness, manner of life), God made you alive together with Christ, having [freely] forgiven us all our sins,
(MY NOTE: Written to believers (Col 1:1&6) Christ, having forgiven us ALL our sins)

Col 2:14 having canceled out the [g]certificate of debt consisting of [h]legal demands [which were in force] against us and which were hostile to us. And this certificate He has set aside and completely removed by nailing it to the cross.

Col 2:15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities [those supernatural forces of evil operating against us], He made a public example of them [exhibiting them as captives in His triumphal procession], having triumphed over them through the cross.

There were no laws nailed to the cross:

1.) You shall not commit murder.

2.) This person has been found guilty of murder.

The first is an example of a law that is for our own good while the second is an example of a handwritten ordinance that was against someone that was nailed to their cross in order to announce why they were being executed. In Matthew 27:37, it says that they put the charge that was against Jesus over his head, so what was nailed to people's crosses was not the laws themselves, but the charge that was against them. This serves as a perfect analogy for the list of our violations of God's law being nailed to Christ's cross and with him dying in our place to pay the penalty for our sins, but has nothing to do with ending any of God's laws, especially because they are all eternal (Psalms 119:160). In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to end any laws, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness, so saying that there were any laws nailed to the cross undermines what he accomplished on the cross.

2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, "not according to our works" but "according to his own purpose and grace" which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
(NOTE: According to HIS own purpose & GRACE. NOT according to our works)

It is speaking in regard to what we have earned by our works, but not works done for other purposes, such as faith. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so grace and works go hand in hand when the works are not in regard to earning something.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I wonder how many of those who go on about the law have the 38 or so comments Jesus gave memorized.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Many of the laws that were given at Sinai were given in place throughout Genesis, so the fact that they were included as part of the Mosaic Covenant does not imply that they are limited to it.

Being set free from the curse of living in disobedience to the Mosaic Law is being set free to enjoy the blessing of living in obedience to it.

so we are still under the Mosaic Law. he walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law,

In Luke 16:16-18, Jesus said that the Mosaic

So if we should do what is just, holy, and righteous then we should obey the Mosaic Law.

The fact that the Mosaic Law is a ministry of death for those who refuse to submit to it is not a very good reason to do that.

Agreed, but that doesn't mean that we aren't still obligated to obey the Mosaic Law.

So if you agree that we should refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, then you should agree that we should obey the Mosaic Law.

You are free to believe & act on, what you choose.

I believe scripture OP shared is clear. No gentile has ever been under Mosaic law. No believer is now, nor has ever been, under Mosaic law.

I have no interest in further debate of an obsolete law not applicable to anyone today.

I believe anyone that understands there is a creator God. They have sinned sinned against His sovereign laws. And heavens sin penalty is death.

The sinner is powerless to reverse this death verdict.

The OP lays out what I believe: Righteousness: comes via Christ's sin imputation. Justification: complete sin forgiveness, Past, Present & Future. This grace is access thru Faith & faith alone (Rom 5:1-2).

A righteous, sinless, faithful, obedient Christ bore/took our judgement & purchased our freedom. (Acts 20:28, Eph 1:14)

Faith in Christ's sin atoning/redeeming work. Found in Christ's death (sins required wage paid in full), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Father's receipt, humanity's sin payment received & accepted. (1 Cor 15:1-4)

Forever redeemed! ALL sins are forgiven! Time for praise & thanksgiving!

All the honor & thanks belong to the Name that is above ALL names. Our Lord, God & Savior. Jesus the Christ. Amen.

 

[Davy]

Quoting a Congressman who referenced a secular book written 51 years ago is supposed to prove what?

1) It's obvious that your intent is to frame the so-called liberal elite in the light of an obviously biased one-person philosophy.

2) What does this have to do with Gentiles being under the Mosaic Law, the subject of the discussion?

3) Why is this being posted on a Christian forum? There is no relevance!

Because it is very relevant to the post's topic. The anti-thesis of Christianity and God's law is Communism, or didn't you know that Communism is an atheistic anti-God philosophy?

 

[pescador]

Because it is very relevant to the post's topic. The anti-thesis of Christianity and God's law is Communism, or didn't you know that Communism is an atheistic anti-God philosophy?

The anti-thesis of Christianity and God's law is atheism, not Communism. Communism is an economic system, like capitalism is; it's not a religious philosophy.

Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state. Wikipedia

The group of those who believed were of one heart and mind, and no one said that any of his possessions was his own, but everything was held in common. Acts 4:32

So, according to you, the early believers were atheists and anti-God. Of course they were not, so your flawed bias is evident.

 

[Davy]

Communism is an economic system, like capitalism is; it's not a religious philosophy.

That's funny!

Communism is a philosophy, a way of thinking applied... to civil and political strategy. Sounds like you've never even read Marx' Communist Manifesto.

 

[pescador]

That's funny!

Communism is a philosophy, a way of thinking applied... to civil and political strategy. Sounds like you've never even read Marx' Communist Manifesto.

I repeat, via Wikipedia, Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.

Seems like you've never read Marx's Communist Manifesto.

 

[Davy]

I repeat, via Wikipedia, Communism is a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.

Seems like you've never read Marx's Communist Manifesto.

I have read Marx's Communist Manifesto, so I know what his philosophy was and his agenda was. One should also study up on 'how' his Manifesto was implemented by the Bolsheviks and Soviets, and throughout Communist countries like China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Poland, Cuba, etc. Oh yeah, and that study would include how those Communists treated Christ's Church in those lands. Stalin in Soviet Russia closed the Churches, and used them for grain storage. That's an example of what Communism thinks of the Church. And right now in China, the Communists imprison Christians and torture their pastors.

 

[pescador]

I have read Marx's Communist Manifesto, so I know what his philosophy was and his agenda was. One should also study up on 'how' his Manifesto was implemented by the Bolsheviks and Soviets, and throughout Communist countries like China, North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Poland, Cuba, etc. Oh yeah, and that study would include how those Communists treated Christ's Church in those lands. Stalin in Soviet Russia closed the Churches, and used them for grain storage. That's an example of what Communism thinks of the Church. And right now in China, the Communists imprison Christians and torture their pastors.

What, if anything, does this have to do with the OP => Gentiles aren't now and never were under Mosaic law. <= ? There is a "General Politics" forum to discuss this kind of thing. I'm not going to discuss this sub-topic any further.

 

[Davy]

What, if anything, does this have to do with the OP => Gentiles aren't now and never were under Mosaic law. <= ? There is a "General Politics" forum to discuss this kind of thing. I'm not going to discuss this sub-topic any further.

You might want to go back and read the previous posts to get up to speed.

The matter of this thread's topic boils down to those who recognize what God's law is for, vs. those who don't know, and instead are being influenced by Christ's enemies to want to throw the law out...

The Ten Commandments and the Supreme Court - The American Vision


Those in Christ need to realize there are crept in Communists behind some Church organizations today, and certainly in American government also. One of their aims is to replace revealed religion (i.e., from The Bible) with socialism. If God's people are not aware of these things happening today, it's probably from crept in unawares in the pulpits pushing socialism. Trying to replace the Ten Commandments with something else surely is proof of that evil working.