Gentiles aren't now & never were,under Mosaic law

[BrotherJJ]

Ex 11:7 But against any of the children of Israel shall not a dog move his tongue, against man or beast: that ye may know how that "the LORD doth put a difference between the Nations and Israel".
(NOTE: The LORD put a difference between the Nations/gentiles/dogs & Israel His chosen people) BTW: The same LORD later refers to the gentile/Canaanite woman as a dog. Gentiles were viewed as unclean dogs, bastards, outside of covenant seals)

Ex 19:
3 God, spoke to Moses saying, Thus shalt thou "say to the house of Jacob" "and tell the children of Israel";
(NOTE: God tells Moses, say to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel! Gentiles had/have NO PART in this law covenant)

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the Lord commanded him.
(MY NOTE: Law of Moses was given to: The house of Jacob/children of Israel (reread vs 3)

8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the Lord hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the Lord.
(MY NOTE: When Moses gives the law to: the house of Jacob/children of Israel: They ALL AGREED, to the words the Lord had spoken)

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
(MY NOTE: Circumcision: A blood covenant made with hands & required under Mosaic law)

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(MY NOTE: Gentiles referred to as the Uncircumcision (vs 11) were without God, having no covenant promises & a hopeless future)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
(MY NOTE: But, NOW! = Post death & resurrection/new Melchizedek covenant. Believing gentiles are no longer bastards outside of covenant seals)

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves
(MY PARSING NOTE: Gentiles were never under/having the Mosaic law)

Council at Jerusalem
Acts 15:
1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
(MY NOTE: Jews try to place gentiles under Mosaic law)

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
(NOTE: These Christ rejecting/unregenerated Pharisees claimed gentile believers needed to be circumcised & commanded them to keep the law of Moses).

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
(NOTE: Peter revisits his trip to Cornelius house (Acts 10). And how by word of mouth gentiles believed on Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Were gentiles received Christ's eternal salvation sealing baptism with His indwelling Holy Spirit)

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(NOTE: These gentiles heard about Christ's sin payment & resurrection. They believed: NO repentance, water baptism, circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No Mosaic law keeping etc. Thru faith & faith alone they were eternally sealed with God's indwelling Holy Spirit)

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(NOTE: Gentiles hearts were Purified by water? NO! Purified by the Holy Spirit via Faith)

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
(NOTE: Peter say's neither our forefathers, nor us, could bear the yoke, of keeping the law of Moses with fidelity)

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
(NOTE: Peter proclaims God has showed us, ALL, are saved by grace thru faith just as we've been)

23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
(NOTE: The apostles send letters to all the gentile believing churches in Antioch, Syria & Cilicia.)

24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
(NOTE: The letters written & sent by Christ chosen apostles. Telling the gentiles you are not, nor were you ever, required to be circumcised or keep Mosaic law)

 

[Sabertooth]

It is the Law that He intends to write on our hearts, albeit in a non-Pharisaical way.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

(NOTE: The letters written & sent by Christ chosen apostles. Telling the gentiles you are not, nor were you ever, required to be circumcised or keep Mosaic law)

Does that also include the 10 Commandments given to Moses along with all the other commandments?

 

[Kenny'sID]

It is the Law that He intends to write on our hearts, albeit in a non-Pharisaical way.

Are you claiming the ten commandments are no longer in affect?

 

[BrotherJJ]

Does that also include the 10 Commandments given to Moses along with all the other commandments?

The 10 commandments were given (as posted) to: the House of Jacob who's name God changed (Gen 32:28) to Israel. Jacob's children became the Nation of Israel.

Having said that, not being under Mosaic law doesn't mean no rules/law.

Matt 22:
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38 This is the first and great commandment.

39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
(NOTE: Also see: Mk 12:29, Jn 13:34, 15:12, 1 Jn 3:11, 23, 1 Jn 4:7)

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If we truly love God & our brother: We won't covet, steal, murder etc.

1 Jn 3:4 Sin is a transgression of the Law:

We've all have broken God's law. No one can say he's not a sinner UNTIL a means is provided (not to take away a the law) but to remove the sin, which is the transgression of the law.

Under the law (God gave Moses, to give, to Israel), compliance invoked blessings (Deut 28:1-14). Non-compliance invoked curses (Deut 28:15-68). When Jesus became a curse (Gal 3:13) He REDEEMED every believers from all non-compliance curses/penalties invoked from breaking the law (Rom 5:20).

When scripture say's you're not under the law. It means the penalties due for non-compliance are no longer levied/imposed. Jesus paid every believers due wage (death). He took all the laws sin invoked judgments/curses upon Himself for us.

Jesus sin atoning payment is found in His: death (sins required wage PAID), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Fathers receipt, sins payment received & accepted). Is seized/accessed via FAITH (Rom 5:1-2, 10:9-10, Eph 1:13,. 2:8) placed in the faithful, obedient work & resurrection of Jesus the Christ!

Christ's righteousness (Jer 23:6 & 33:16) is imputed/transferred (Rom 4:3-8) onto us & our sins are imputed/transferred onto Christ. While the Temple was operating the High Priest had authority to impute/transfer sin (Lev 16:21).

Christ our Great High Priest (Heb 4:14) has the power to not only impute our sin onto Himself. Our High Priest can also impute His righteousness onto Himself. See Lev 4 & Rom 4 for additional imputation context.

2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
(NOTE: We become the righteousness of God thru faith in Christs works)

Lk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
(MY NOTE: Even for the Jew Mosaic law was preached & in effect, UNTIL, the death & resurrection of Jesus the Christ)

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
(MY NOTE: The Mosaic law is just, BUT, can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous)

Paul's Holy Spirit inspired writing proclaims:
The law, written & engraved in stones, is an administrator of death (Col 3:7) & a administrator of condemnation (Col 3:9)

2 Cor 3:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
MY NOTE: Written to believers (2 Cor 1:1) The letter/law/administers death. But, the NT Holy Spirit's administration is, thru faith, life giving).

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(MY NOTE: Mosaic law was put on notice at Jesus death when the temple veil was torn in 1/2 (Matt 27:51). And retired completely when Jesus sent the eternal life giving Holy Spirit at Pentecost/Acts 2:4)

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
(MY NOTE: Context, Mosaic law is an administrator of condemnation. BTW there is NO condemnation in Christ believers/Rom 8:1)

Gal 2:21 do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
(MY NOTE: Righteousness isn't accessed/obtained by law keeping)

Gal 3:
19 It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made
(MY NOTE: The law was added & in effect, UNTIL, Christ/the promised seed should come)

23 Before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed
(MY NOTE: BEFORE faith came, the law was in effect)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith
(MY NOTE: The law is a teacher, it's job/purpose is to identify, expose & condemn sin. Only after we understand & acknowledge we have sinned against our creator God's sovereign rule. Can we by faith be justified = Judicially proclaimed righteous by our sovereign creator God)

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster
(MY NOTE: Once we've acknowledged & confessed our sins. Placed/proclaimed our faith in Christ's sin atoning payment. Found in His death, burial & resurrection (1 Cor 15:1-4). We are no longer under the curses/penalties invoked from breaking the law. (Deut 28:15-60)

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(MY NOTE: The law teaches/schools/equips us with the knowledge to understand what sin is)

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
( MY NOTE: The law teaches/reveals sins, lust, covetousness etc)

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: Written to NT believers (Rom 1:7). The righteousness of God written of by Moses & the prophets is now revealed separate from/without the works of the law)

Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
(MY NOTE: Context vs 1, Israel. Because Israel was going about to establish their own righteousness thru Mosaic law keeping. They had missed/fallen from God's grace)

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(MY NOTE: Christ ended accessing righteousness thru workslaw keeping)

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(MY NOTE: Sin has NO power over the blood bought believer. BTW: believers aren't perfect, just forgiven)

1 Cor 15:
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: A GIFT is given, not earned. Having said that, a gift can be rejected) When we accept Gods GIFT of GRACE; mix it with our FAITH in Christ's redemptive sin payment & resurrection. We are SAVED & SEALED with Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit. See: Eph 1:14 & 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 & 5: Tim 1:14)

Eph 2:9 says, Not of works, lest any man should boast.
(MY NOTE: In regards to salvation our own works are worthless. It's our FAITH placed in God & Christ's FINISHED redemptive work & resurrection)

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(MY NOTE: Grace has a name it's Jesus Christ)

AMP Bible:
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (worldliness, manner of life), God made you alive together with Christ, having [freely] forgiven us all our sins,
(MY NOTE: Written to believers (Col 1:1&6) Christ, having forgiven us ALL our sins)

Col 2:14 having canceled out the [g]certificate of debt consisting of [h]legal demands [which were in force] against us and which were hostile to us. And this certificate He has set aside and completely removed by nailing it to the cross.

Col 2:15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities [those supernatural forces of evil operating against us], He made a public example of them [exhibiting them as captives in His triumphal procession], having triumphed over them through the cross.

2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, "not according to our works" but "according to his own purpose and grace" which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
(NOTE: According to HIS own purpose & GRACE. NOT according to our works)

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit;
(NOTE: Via God's MERCY/grace, thru FAITH in Christ's sin payment & resurrection & the gift of Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit. Not in our own good works or law keeping)

Rom 5:
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

17 much more they which receive abundance of grace & the of "gift of righteousness" shall reign by one, Jesus Christ

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one "free gift came upon all men unto justification" of life. Peace, JJ

 

[Sabertooth]

Are you claiming the ten commandments are no longer in affect?

No, not according to Matthew 5:21-30. The intended message is the same. The medium has changed (from stone tablets to hearts).

 

[Kenny'sID]

No, not according to Matthew 5:21-30. The intended message is the same. The medium has changed (from stone tablets to hearts).

And lets not forget the Bible. The heart is great, but in writing is also a necessity in my view.

I still would like to know if BrotherJJ would tell us if he is also referring to the ten commandments?

 

[Kobo]

No, not according to Matthew 5:21-30. The intended message is the same. The medium has changed (from stone tablets to hearts).

Jesus Christ, the New Covenant, is a complete Covenant, separate from the Old Covenant. In Jesus Christ we have about 46 commandments to Obey, the 10 commandments not included among them. However, some of the commandments found in the New Covenant/agreement, which is instead between God and man, have similar connotations to some of the commandments found as part of the 10 commandments which belong in the Old Covenant(Mosaic Law).

Example found in Matthew 5 vs 27 - 32
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.​

Also, we are warned against trying to practice both Laws, of course, you are either a signee to the Old Covenant or the New Covenant, but never both. The New Covenant comes with a greater promise than the Old, so I see no reason why anyone would want to choose to obey the Old Covenant agreement when the New comes with a lighter yoke and easy burden.

 

[BrotherJJ]

And lets not forget the Bible. The heart is great, but in writing is also a necessity in my view.

I still would like to know if BrotherJJ would tell us if he is also referring to the ten commandments?

I answered that question best I could in post# 5.

I have a question for you.

Is the body of Christ under this law commandment? And it's penalty for non-compliance?

4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Numbers 15:32 a man gathered sticks on the sabbath day. Vs 33, he's brought before Moses, Aaron & all the congregation. Vs 34, he's locked up until they seek God's council. Vs 35, the Lord say's STONE him to DEATH. Vs 36, the CONGREGATION STONED him to DEATH as commanded by Lord & Moses.

Ex 35:2 KILL anybody that does any work on the Sabbath.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I answered that question best I could in post# 5.

I have a question for you.

Is the body of Christ under this law commandment? And it's penalty for non-compliance?

4) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Numbers 15:32 a man gathered sticks on the sabbath day. Vs 33, he's brought before Moses, Aaron & all the congregation. Vs 34, he's locked up until they seek God's council. Vs 35, the Lord say's STONE him to DEATH. Vs 36, the CONGREGATION STONED him to DEATH as commanded by Lord & Moses.

Ex 35:2 KILL anybody that does any work on the Sabbath.

As to the question you said you answered, I didn't know I asked one and still not sue what you are talking about?

On your other questions, be more clear...please.. Give the simple condensed question and I'll reply with the simple answer.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Does that also include the 10 Commandments given to Moses along with all the other commandments?

613 - 10 = 603 ignored, one must be breaking some of those.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Does that also include the 10 Commandments given to Moses along with all the other commandments?

OP doesn't claim there isn't a sovereign creator God, nor, any right & wrong actions.

Adam wasn't under Mosaic covenant laws, yet, he knowingly transgressed/sinned against God's law.

No one was under this covenant before they reach Sinai, after the Egypt exodus. And no one is under the Mosaic covenant after Jesus retires the Levitical priesthood. Upon the tearing of the Temple veil in 1/2. (Matt 27:51)

The 10 commandments were only a part of the Mosaic Covenant cut at Sinai.

A couple other points:

Circumcision was an absolute requirement under Mosaic law.

Ex 12:43-48. No foreigners, servants, sojourners or strangers could partake in the in the Passover meal unless they were circumcised.

NT believers aren't required to get circumcised. (Acts 15:24)

Maybe you would be kind enough to answer the Sabbath question, I asked in post #9. The poster in posts 5 & 10 wouldn't answer.

Mosaic law is just, BUT, it can't justify anyone. The law is holy, BUT, can't make anyone holy. The law is righteous, BUT, can't make anyone righteous.

The problem isn't the Law, it's our adamic sin nature.

Main Point:
If the law can't make us holy, righteous or justified (Rom 3.20) Condemns every sinner without mercy to death (Rom 6:23).

Why, are so many people tenaciously driven. To place today's NT believers (who aren't under Mosaic law Rom 6:14, Acts 15:24) under Mosaic laws yoke of condemnation?

Rom 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. JJ

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Maybe you would be kind enough to answer the Sabbath question, I asked in post #9. The poster in posts 5 & 10 wouldn't answer.

"I answered that question best I could in post# 5.
I have a question for you.
Is the body of Christ under this law commandment? And it's penalty for non-compliance?"

Based on your answers I would say no.

 

[Davy]

The 10 commandments were given (as posted) to: the House of Jacob who's name God changed (Gen 32:28) to Israel. Jacob's children became the Nation of Israel.

Having said that, not being under Mosaic law doesn't mean no rules/law.
....

Not sure you really understand what God's law is about, and how it still applies to Christian doctrine. Instead of passing 1 Timothy 1 to quote 2 Timothy 1:9, you should have considered this by Apostle Paul...

1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV

AND ALSO THIS BY APOSTLE PAUL:

Gal 5:18-21
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
KJV


Like Paul said, the law wasn't made for the righteous, but for the sinner and ungodly. And as long as we walk by The Spirit, we won't be doing anything that is against God's laws. And that is an IF condition, only IF we follow The Spirit doing the good things of The Holy Spirit. That is Paul's Message there in Galatians 5 and in 1 Timothy 1.

Thus God's laws are not dead, not for those who break them.

So brethren in Christ Jesus need to be very careful how they preach about God's laws, lest they wrongly teach that under Christ all the law is now dead which simply is NOT true, nor did Apostle Paul ever teach such a thing.

 

[BrotherJJ]

BrotherJJ said: ↑
The 10 commandments were given (as posted) to: the House of Jacob who's name God changed (Gen 32:28) to Israel. Jacob's children became the Nation of Israel.

Having said that, not being under Mosaic law doesn't mean no rules/law.

Davy,
What part of what you highlighted do you take issue?

1) The 10 commandments were given to the House of Jacob/Israel?

2) God changed Jacobs name (Gen 32:28) to Israel?

3) Jacob's children became the Nation of Israel.

4) Not being under Mosaic law doesn't mean no rules/law?

Davy,
You posted to me:
Quote "Not sure you really understand what God's law is about, and how it still applies to Christian doctrine." End quote...

My position remains firm:
No gentile has ever been under the Mosaic covenant cut at Sinai.

Here's a simple statement as to how God's law applies to Christian doctrine:

"""Love God with all that you are & love your neighbor as yourself"""

It was the very next point made from the post of mine that you quoted to me.

Find link to post #5: Gentiles aren't now & never were,under Mosaic law

 

[Davy]

Davy,
What part of what you highlighted do you take issue?

1) The 10 commandments were given to the House of Jacob/Israel?

2) God changed Jacobs name (Gen 32:28) to Israel?

3) Jacob's children became the Nation of Israel.

4) Not being under Mosaic law doesn't mean no rules/law?

Davy,
You posted to me:
Quote "Not sure you really understand what God's law is about, and how it still applies to Christian doctrine." End quote...

My position remains firm:
No gentile has ever been under the Mosaic covenant cut at Sinai.

Here's a simple statement as to how God's law applies to Christian doctrine:

"""Love God with all that you are & love your neighbor as yourself"""

It was the very next point made from the post of mine that you quoted to me.

Find link to post #5: Gentiles aren't now & never were,under Mosaic law

Afraid not, what you're suggesting simply is not... true. God's laws covers the operations of the universe. No man can escape them, and that includes the Gentile.

What, you think the Gentile is under some special dispensation to not be subject to any... law? That's an idea by Satan the devil.

God has made sure even in pagan civilizations that a certain level of law is followed. Even murder was against the pagan's laws. God even sent Jonah to pagan Nineveh to show them.

What you're TRYING to do, is to confuse God's laws that operate the universe with religion per the old covenant. Lord Jesus did NOT nail God's laws against murder, against perjury, against theft, etc., to His cross!!! (1 Timothy 1; Galatians 5).

That's what your response means, since you are claiming you are not ignorant of what God's law is about. Either you know and are here to deceive the brethren, or you just don't know what you're talking about on this matter, which is where I gave you the benefit of the doubt. But now, I'm not too certain that you're ignorant of this matter, but instead may have an agenda!

 

[BrotherJJ]

Afraid not, what you're suggesting simply is not... true. God's laws covers the operations of the universe. No man can escape them, and that includes the Gentile.

What, you think the Gentile is under some special dispensation to not be subject to any... law? That's an idea by Satan the devil.

God has made sure even in pagan civilizations that a certain level of law is followed. Even murder was against the pagan's laws. God even sent Jonah to pagan Nineveh to show them.

What you're TRYING to do, is to confuse God's laws that operate the universe with religion per the old covenant. Lord Jesus did NOT nail God's laws against murder, against perjury, against theft, etc., to His cross!!! (1 Timothy 1; Galatians 5).

That's what your response means, since you are claiming you are not ignorant of what God's law is about. Either you know and are here to deceive the brethren, or you just don't know what you're talking about on this matter, which is where I gave you the benefit of the doubt. But now, I'm not too certain that you're ignorant of this matter, but instead may have an agenda!

OP doesn't claim, nor have I, that there isn't a sovereign creator God, or any right & wrong actions.

Adam wasn't under Mosaic covenant laws, yet, he knowingly transgressed/sinned against God's law.

No one was under the covenant cut at Sinai before the Egypt exodus. No one has been under the Mosaic covenant, since Jesus retired the Levitical priesthood, upon the tearing in 1/2 of the Temple veil. (Matt 27:51).

2 Cor 3:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
(MY NOTE: New testament believers are not ministers of the law. The laws purpose is to expose & condemn sin. (Gal 3:10,17,22-25) which leads to death.)

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
(MY NOTE: Here scripture calls the letter/law written on 2 stone tables (Deut 4:13) an administrator of death, that would one day be done away with. Davy, time to let it go my friend)

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
(MY NOTE: The new covenant indwelling, of God's Holy Spirit is superior)

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
(MY NOTE: The letter/law/ministration of condemnation/ministration of death is superseded by righteousness/justification accessed via faith (Rom 5:1-2) in Christ's sin payment & resurrection.)

The law can't make anyone holy, righteous or justified (Rom 3.20) It condemns every sinner without mercy to death (Rom 6:23).

Why, are so many people tenaciously driven. To place today's NT believers (who aren't under Mosaic law Rom 6:14, Acts 15:24) under the Mosaic law = referred to as the administration of death (2 Cor 3:7) & the administration of condemnation (2 Cor 3:9)

Rom 8:
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Davy,
Clearly we disagree, you're free to believe whatever you choose, about Mosaic law & about me. I see no reason to continue in our exchange. May His grace be multiplied to you & yours, JJ

 

[Davy]

Davy,
Clearly we disagree, you're free to believe whatever you choose, about Mosaic law & about me. I see no reason to continue in our exchange. May His grace be multiplied to you & yours, JJ

We disagree because you're not staying with what God's Word actually teaches. Your doctrine is from men, not God, and I can easily prove it by what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Timothy 1 and Galatians 5 regarding sin and the law.

God's laws (which Jesus did not nail all of God's laws to His cross), which still exist today, apply per Christian doctrine. Apostle Paul covers them in those Chapters I mentioned, which YOU FAILED TO ADDRESS. Did you really think I wouldn't call you out on that?

Paul taught in Galatians 5 that we are dead to the law IF......... we walk by The Spirit.

Fall back into the sins of the flesh, and one is back... under God's laws.

It is as simple as that.

This is how even a fellow Christian can slip up in sin, and if the sin is against one of God's existing laws, then punishment will come, even AS A BELIEVER ON CHRIST JESUS. Theft is an example.

Apparently, this warning that Apostle Paul gave in Galatians 5 isn't being taught to many brethren anymore. Those in Christ Jesus are under great attack by the devil and his servants today, so no wonder many in the pulpits are not dishing this out much anymore. Brethren need to hear it.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

What you're TRYING to do, is to confuse God's laws that operate the universe with religion per the old covenant.

It sounds like you are talking about Natural Law (laws that operate the universe) and Mosaic Law (religion per the old covenant). Could it be there are some laws that are both ("Do not kill") and some that are one or the other ("Do not wear garments of two different fabrics")?

 

[Davy]

It sounds like you are talking about Natural Law (laws that operate the universe) and Mosaic Law (religion per the old covenant). Could it be there are some laws that are both ("Do not kill") and some that are one or the other ("Do not wear garments of two different fabrics")?
View attachment 296714

God gave Israel laws dealing with cleanliness. Until the middle ages when someone decided to actually listen to God in His Word, all sorts of diseases were being passed among patients in a hospital ward because the doctor washed his dirty hands in the same bowl of water. God told the priests to wash under 'running' water. Thus there are still many things in the Old Testament law that deals directly with science of how God created this world. It ain't all about religion.