Genesis 1:5 THE FIRST DAY (KJV)

[CoreyD]

I'm glad you said it was just a theory. According to the bible, The ancestors of Abraham, and Abraham himself to start with, were not Hebrews.

This is not according to the Bible. This is according to David. Not Biblical King David, but you, David.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "The ancestors of Abraham, and Abraham himself to start with, were not Hebrews"

Hebrew is a name applied to Abraham and his descendants.

Not exactly correct.
Abraham was called the Hebrew. Do you know why?
The only other place in the Bible, where anyone is referred to as Hebrews is Exodus 1:15-19, where Pharaoh used the term "the Hebrew women". The question is, why?

@Diamond72 says..

“Hebrew” is believed to derive from the verb “la’avor,” which means "to cross over"1. This is often associated with Abraham, who is considered the first Hebrew. He crossed over the Euphrates River, leaving his homeland in Mesopotamia to journey to the land that would become Israel1.

Abraham was given the Arab continental plate 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. This will be the new Jerusalem. With mineral and air rights.

In the High School I attended people were offended by use of the word Jewish or Jew. They felt this was slander on the word Judah. With the Hasidic that does not seem to be an issue with them.

This is a view held by some, but if Abram was called the Hebrew because he crossed over the Euphrates, would that not mean that people who crossed over, prior to, and subsequent to Abram, would be called Hebrews?
In such a case, there would be no significance in Abram being called the Hebrew, because it would be common among many... just as the name John, past and present.

The Hebrew word for Hebrew, is Ibri, and is associated with Eber, perhaps meaning "descendant of Eber".
So there were descendants of Eber, called Hebrews.
Who would these be?
The Bible provides the line of descent at Genesis 11:14-27
Eber; Peleg; Reu; Serug; Nahor; Terah; Abram
These are the descendants of Shem. Genesis 11:10

So, according to the Bible, the descendants of Eber, through his son Peleg, were Hebrew, and this includes Abraham (Abram).

Bridgeway Bible Dictionary [2]​

Eber was an early Semite (i.e. a descendant of Shem) whose two sons, Joktan and Peleg, began two notable lines of family descent ( Genesis 10:21; Genesis 10:25). The line of descent through Joktan produced many of the Arab tribes ( Genesis 10:26-30), and the line through Peleg produced those tribes of Mesopotamia to which Abraham belonged ( Genesis 11:16-26). The name ‘Hebrew’, by which Abraham and his descendants were known, was taken from the name ‘Eber’ ( Genesis 10:21; Genesis 14:13; Genesis 39:17; Exodus 1:22; see Hebrew ). So too, it seems, was the name ‘Habiru’, by which semi-nomadic peoples in general were known. The word eber meant ‘to pass over or through’.

What the Bible says, is supported by Hebrew lexicon, also.
If we did not know where the term Hebrew came, now we know.

 

[CoreyD]

The day began when He created the heaven and the earth. Not sure what doesnt make sense about that. Would you like it better if the day began before he created the heaven and the earth?

When is a day not 24 hours? There is nothing in the context of creation in Genesis that would suggest otherwise.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you saying God couldn’t have created the earth within a day? The day began WHEN earth was created. That’s the beginning

What’s unreasonable to you about the literal reading of Genesis?

Walk with me.
You say God created the heavens and the earth in one day of 24 hours, correct?
You say a day of 24 hours is when the earth makes one full rotation, correct?

There is no earth rotating, correct?
So, start the day.
If God creates the heavens and the earth at a snap of the finger - viola - heaven and earth appear.... then the earth can begin rotating, correct?
This means that before the earth even makes an oomph of a rotation, the heavens and earth are created, correct?

What did I get wrong? Please correct the error.
If all I said is correct, the heavens and the earth were not created in 24 hours, but less than a second... even before the earth could make a rotation.

If you say the rotation was really really fast, in a split second, that is not 24 hours.
If you say the day began after the earth was created, then the earth was not created in a day. Nor a literal 24 hour one.

The heaven and earth were created at the same time based in genesis 1:1. But are you saying it should say 1day and 1second?

No. I do agree the heavens and the earth were created the same day - day 1. Yes.
You are the one who is putting a literal time to it, so you are the one to tell us when that time was, because, you either believe both were created BOOM in a split second, or you believe that within the literal 24 hour day the creation of the heavens and earth began, and ended within that period.

If you cannot explain that in a logical coherent way that even a teenager can understand, it is no different to the many creation myths out there.
Are you able to explain?

Was the earth created, then began to rotate, beginning day 1?
If so, the earth was created before the day began, and not within the day.
That is the only way your viewpoint can be understood, and such a viewpoint is unscriptural, since the earth was created on day 1, and not before.

Do you not understand how what you believe does not make sense, and defies logic and reason?

 

[Platte]

Walk with me.
You say God created the heavens and the earth in one day of 24 hours, correct?
You say a day of 24 hours is when the earth makes one full rotation, correct?

There is no earth rotating, correct?
So, start the day.
If God creates the heavens and the earth at a snap of the finger - viola - heaven and earth appear.... then the earth can begin rotating, correct?
This means that before the earth even makes an oomph of a rotation, the heavens and earth are created, correct?

What did I get wrong? Please correct the error.
If all I said is correct, the heavens and the earth were not created in 24 hours, but less than a second... even before the earth could make a rotation.

If you say the rotation was really really fast, in a split second, that is not 24 hours.
If you say the day began after the earth was created, then the earth was not created in a day. Nor a literal 24 hour one.



No. I do agree the heavens and the earth were created the same day - day 1. Yes.
You are the one who is putting a literal time to it, so you are the one to tell us when that time was, because, you either believe both were created BOOM in a split second, or you believe that within the literal 24 hour day the creation of the heavens and earth began, and ended within that period.

If you cannot explain that in a logical coherent way that even a teenager can understand, it is no different to the many creation myths out there.
Are you able to explain?

Was the earth created, then began to rotate, beginning day 1?
If so, the earth was created before the day began, and not within the day.
That is the only way your viewpoint can be understood, and such a viewpoint is unscriptural, since the earth was created on day 1, and not before.

Do you not understand how what you believe does not make sense, and defies logic and reason?

You’ve really lost me on this one.

Let me try again. The first day began WHEN the heaven and the earth were created. Not before and not after but when the heaven and earth were created.

When I or anyone else says a day is 24 hours it is understood that there could be some very slight deviation from that. Some days are slightly longer and some are slightly shorter. Milliseconds difference.

A day is 1 full rotation of the Earth. The earth was created and then it made 1 rotation that would be Day 1.

 

[Platte]

Paul argues that the promises made to Abraham find their ultimate fulfillment in Jesus Christ. He refers to Christ as the “seed” of Abraham, through whom all nations would be blessed (Galatians 3:16)3.

Not all the "Jewish" people are descended from Abraham. While not a covenant in the traditional sense, God's promises highlight God’s attention to Hagar and her son, Ishmael. That her descendants would be too numerous to count.

The DNA is not as easy to untangle was we think it should be.

Diamond72: you have a lot of information regarding your beliefs posted but can you just summarize this one main part

God said the complete Creation took 6 days, he then rested on the 7th day and sanctified that day as the sabbath day

So if God directly and specifically said it took Him 6 days - why don’t you accept that? I’m not asking you to give the details why just the broad statement of why. If you don’t mind. Thank you.

 

[Diamond72]

o if God directly and specifically said it took Him 6 days - why don’t you accept that?

I do accept a literal Bible 100% without exception. We teach the literal bible to our Sunday school students. Then when they are old enough to understand they go into the sanctuary to understand what they call shadows and types. In addition to a literal Bible there are allegory, metaphors, archetypes, homiletics, symbolism, paradigms, parables. And the list goes on from there. There is a best selling book out called paradigms that deals with Jezebel. That is literal. There are those who believe a modern political figure is a "Jezebel". That is not literal, it is what the author calls a paradigm. I am not saying I believe this best selling book. I am just saying there are people that do. But it would most likely not be allowed to have a thread on that subject.

 

[Diamond72]

he then rested on the 7th day

If He rested on the seventh day then we do not find Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden until the eighth day. But we are told that God created man on the sixth day. So are the sixth day and the eighth day the same day as some people suggest? People need to be consistent. There are no exceptions to the rule.

 

[CoreyD]

You’ve really lost me on this one.

Let me try again. The first day began WHEN the heaven and the earth were created. Not before and not after but when the heaven and earth were created.

When I or anyone else says a day is 24 hours it is understood that there could be some very slight deviation from that. Some days are slightly longer and some are slightly shorter. Milliseconds difference.

A day is 1 full rotation of the Earth. The earth was created and then it made 1 rotation that would be Day 1.

You have not told me where I made an error with simple statements on what you said, so if I lost you, and you cannot say if I am correct, or not, you must not know what you are saying.
Do you know what you are saying and can you explain what you are sayin? Or can you only say what you are saying?

You said, "The first day began WHEN the heaven and the earth were created"
That is not what Genesis 1, or Genesis 2:4 says.
Just in case you do not know...
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, Genesis 2:4

Since the earth was not created before day 1 began, the day never began, because for the day to begin, the earth must exist, since a day is one full rotation... According to you.

If you do not understand that, it is not because you are unintelligent, or too young to understand. There has to be another reason.

Let me ask this, one...
Is a day part of a full rotation?
When on this globe, does the day begin? When it starts to rotate, or somewhere within a full rotation?

 

[Platte]

You have not told me where I made an error with simple statements on what you said, so if I lost you, and you cannot say if I am correct, or not, you must not know what you are saying.
Do you know what you are saying and can you explain what you are sayin? Or can you only say what you are saying?

You said, "The first day began WHEN the heaven and the earth were created"
That is not what Genesis 1, or Genesis 2:4 says.
Just in case you do not know...
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, Genesis 2:4

Since the earth was not created before day 1 began, the day never began, because for the day to begin, the earth must exist, since a day is one full rotation... According to you.

Yes a day is one full rotation. Not according to me - that’s what a day is.
A day is not one full rotation to you? How would you define a day?

If you do not understand that, it is not because you are unintelligent, or too young to understand. There has to be another reason.

Let me ask this, one...
Is a day part of a full rotation?
When on this globe, does the day begin? When it starts to rotate, or somewhere within a full rotation?

The first day started when the earth was created. It ended when it made 1 complete rotation. I think I’ve said that multiple times.

The day began When the Earth was created. The day ended when it made 1 full rotation.

Are we clear now?

 

[Platte]

I do accept a literal Bible 100% without exception. We teach the literal bible to our Sunday school students. Then when they are old enough to understand they go into the sanctuary to understand what they call shadows and types. In addition to a literal Bible there are allegory, metaphors, archetypes, homiletics, symbolism, paradigms, parables. And the list goes on from there. There is a best selling book out called paradigms that deals with Jezebel. That is literal. There are those who believe a modern political figure is a "Jezebel". That is not literal, it is what the author calls a paradigm. I am not saying I believe this best selling book. I am just saying there are people that do. But it would most likely not be allowed to have a thread on that subject.

Do you consider Genesis to be allegory, metaphors, archetypes, homiletics, symbolism, paradigms, parables.? Considering God Himself confirms to us with in his own words, that it took 6 days. Still trying to understand what your reasoning is for not accepting the direct and specific words from God confirming the 6 day account in Genesis

 

[CoreyD]

Yes a day is one full rotation. Not according to me - that’s what a day is.

Thank you. So the earth was created before a day began, because until the earth is created, it cannot rotate.
That is unscriptural. Thank you again.

A day is not one full rotation to you? How would you define a day?

In Genesis, a day is how long God sees a day as. It is a period of time. Not 24 hours.
I have been explaining to you that if you apply man's time to God's time, you are making a mistake.
However, you insisted, even to now, saying that you are not ignoring Genesis 2:4, which shows that a day is not 24 hours, but you actually are.

In Genesis 2:4, the history, or genealogy, includes all six days. Not just day 1.
So, these days are periods of time, which God calls days. There are God's creative days. A day to God is not 24 hours... one full rotation of the earth.

I explained this before.
The fact that Genesis 2:4 refers to the six creative days as a day, is significant, because it draws to the attention of readers, that a day in the Genesis creative days, is a period of time, and is not tied to man's time after the six day creation period.
Times and seasons from man's perspective, began after the six days, as is evident from Genesis 1:14, which reads...

And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years.

I'm not stuck on a day from man's perspective. You seem to be. Why is that?

The first day started when the earth was created. It ended when it made 1 complete rotation. I think I’ve said that multiple times.

You totally ignored the scripture again, and promoted your teaching.
Why is that?

The day began When the Earth was created. The day ended when it made 1 full rotation.

Are we clear now?

We were clear before, that you hold to an idea, and view that is unscriptural... and insist on it.
The Bible does not say that, anywhere.

 

[Diamond72]

How would you define a day?

The atmosphere refracts the light so sunup is 10 min early and sunset is 10 min late. The sidereal day happens each time Earth completes a 360-degree rotation. That takes 23 hours and 56 minutes. The solar day — the one humans count in the calendar — happens when Earth spins just a little further, and the sun is at the same point in the sky as it was 24 hours ago. So you have to take the spin, rotation and refraction into consideration. Also the spin rate is slowing down because of the gravity of the moon. So every day is ever so slightly longer than the day before. The Bible talks about the perfect day and I think that will be exactly 24 hours and there will be exactly 360 days in a year. There will still be 13 months in the year. Pope Gregory XIII authorized, and most Roman Catholic countries adopted, the "Gregorian" or "New Style" Calendar." So we have 12 months that has nothing to do with the moon.

 

[Platte]

Thank you. So the earth was created before a day began, because until the earth is created, it cannot rotate.
That is unscriptural. Thank you again.

A day is 1 rotation of the earth. Day 1 began when earth was created. It ended when it made one full rotation. You keep saying earth was created before a day began - not sure why. It doesn’t matter when the rotation starts and it doesn’t matter what happens after is starts. Doesn’t matter if the earth actually stopped rotation in the middle of the day for an hour. A day would still be when the earth made 1 rotation.

In Genesis, a day is how long God sees a day as. It is a period of time. Not 24 hours.
I have been explaining to you that if you apply man's time to God's time, you are making a mistake.
However, you insisted, even to now, saying that you are not ignoring Genesis 2:4, which shows that a day is not 24 hours, but you actually are.

You might want to stop reading if you don’t know what “In the day” means. I already gave you a definition of it.

In Genesis 2:4, the history, or genealogy, includes all six days. Not just day 1.
So, these days are periods of time, which God calls days. There are God's creative days. A day to God is not 24 hours... one full rotation of the earth.

What does God mean when he say there was an evening and a morning, the first day (repeated 6 times)?

Are there other silly examples you can give when a day is not a day (like we know a day) in the Bible? Was Jesus dead 3 literal days? Was Jonah in the whale for 3 literal day? I can give you hundreds of reference to days in the Bible just like these. Are they all literal days?

I explained this before.
The fact that Genesis 2:4 refers to the six creative days as a day,

That’s a lie. It does not refer to them as a day. “In the day” do you even know what that means? That is a common expression.

significant, because it draws to the attention of readers, that a day in the Genesis creative days, is a period of time, and is not tied to man's time after the six day creation period.
Times and seasons from man's perspective, began after the six days, as is evident from Genesis 1:14, which reads...


I'm not stuck on a day from man's perspective. You seem to be. Why is that?

Because God said it!!!!!

You totally ignored the scripture again, and promoted your teaching.
Why is that?


We were clear before, that you hold to an idea, and view that is unscriptural... and insist on it.
The Bible does not say that, anywhere.

You didn’t even know that a day is 1 rotation of the earth. Smh.

 

[Platte]

The atmosphere refracts the light so sunup is 10 min early and sunset is 10 min late. The sidereal day happens each time Earth completes a 360-degree rotation. That takes 23 hours and 56 minutes. The solar day — the one humans count in the calendar — happens when Earth spins just a little further, and the sun is at the same point in the sky as it was 24 hours ago. So you have to take the spin, rotation and refraction into consideration. Also the spin rate is slowing down because of the gravity of the moon. So every day is ever so slightly longer than the day before. The Bible talks about the perfect day and I think that will be exactly 24 hours and there will be exactly 360 days in a year. There will still be 13 months in the year. Pope Gregory XIII authorized, and most Roman Catholic countries adopted, the "Gregorian" or "New Style" Calendar." So we have 12 months that has nothing to do with the moon.

Ok so we agree a day is one full rotation of the earth. Thank you.

 

[CoreyD]

A day is 1 rotation of the earth. Day 1 began when earth was created. It ended when it made one full rotation. You keep saying earth was created before a day began - not sure why. It doesn’t matter when the rotation starts and it doesn’t matter what happens after is starts. Doesn’t matter if the earth actually stopped rotation in the middle of the day for an hour. A day would still be when the earth made 1 rotation.

You might want to stop reading if you don’t know what “In the day” means. I already gave you a definition of it.

What does God mean when he say there was an evening and a morning, the first day (repeated 6 times)?

Are there other silly examples you can give when a day is not a day (like we know a day) in the Bible? Was Jesus dead 3 literal days? Was Jonah in the whale for 3 literal day? I can give you hundreds of reference to days in the Bible just like these. Are they all literal days?

That’s a lie. It does not refer to them as a day. “In the day” do you even know what that means? That is a common expression.

Because God said it!!!!!

You didn’t even know that a day is 1 rotation of the earth. Smh.

Your definition of a day is your idea. Not science. ...and your view of the creative days is not scriptural.
However, you do not understand either, and it seems I cannot help you.
A science book can help with the first. However, the second is a problem because of how most - not unbelievers - view the Bible.

So, what can I say... See you another time and place.

 

[Diamond72]

Ok so we agree a day is one full rotation of the earth. Thank you.

So the first day was the day the earth began to rotate?

 

[David Lamb]

This is not according to the Bible. This is according to David. Not Biblical King David, but you, David.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say, "The ancestors of Abraham, and Abraham himself to start with, were not Hebrews"


Not exactly correct.
Abraham was called the Hebrew. Do you know why?
The only other place in the Bible, where anyone is referred to as Hebrews is Exodus 1:15-19, where Pharaoh used the term "the Hebrew women". The question is, why?

@Diamond72 says..

This is a view held by some, but if Abram was called the Hebrew because he crossed over the Euphrates, would that not mean that people who crossed over, prior to, and subsequent to Abram, would be called Hebrews?
In such a case, there would be no significance in Abram being called the Hebrew, because it would be common among many... just as the name John, past and present.

The Hebrew word for Hebrew, is Ibri, and is associated with Eber, perhaps meaning "descendant of Eber".
So there were descendants of Eber, called Hebrews.
Who would these be?
The Bible provides the line of descent at Genesis 11:14-27
Eber; Peleg; Reu; Serug; Nahor; Terah; Abram
These are the descendants of Shem. Genesis 11:10

So, according to the Bible, the descendants of Eber, through his son Peleg, were Hebrew, and this includes Abraham (Abram).

Bridgeway Bible Dictionary [2]​

Eber was an early Semite (i.e. a descendant of Shem) whose two sons, Joktan and Peleg, began two notable lines of family descent ( Genesis 10:21; Genesis 10:25). The line of descent through Joktan produced many of the Arab tribes ( Genesis 10:26-30), and the line through Peleg produced those tribes of Mesopotamia to which Abraham belonged ( Genesis 11:16-26). The name ‘Hebrew’, by which Abraham and his descendants were known, was taken from the name ‘Eber’ ( Genesis 10:21; Genesis 14:13; Genesis 39:17; Exodus 1:22; see Hebrew ). So too, it seems, was the name ‘Habiru’, by which semi-nomadic peoples in general were known. The word eber meant ‘to pass over or through’.

What the Bible says, is supported by Hebrew lexicon, also.
If we did not know where the term Hebrew came, now we know.

Where does the bible refer to anybody except descendants of Abraham as Hebrews? Yes, I know that some people think that "Hebrew" comes from "Eber", however, if descendants of Eber were all Hebrews, that would lead to there being many nationalities that are Hebrew. (Eber himself had two sons, Peleg and Joktan. Joktan had 13 sons. All these would have had descendants too). Such an idea means it would be meaningless for the apostle Paul to say that he was "a Hebrew of the Hebrews."

 

[Diamond72]

Where does the bible refer to anybody except descendants of Abraham as Hebrews?

In the context of the Bible, the term “Hebrew” is more closely associated with the descendants of Isaac rather than Ishmael. Here’s a bit more detail:

• Isaac: As the son of Abraham and Sarah, Isaac is considered a Hebrew. His descendants, through his son Jacob (later named Israel), form the twelve tribes of Israel, who are often referred to as Hebrews.
• Ishmael: While Ishmael is also a son of Abraham, he is not typically referred to as a Hebrew in the same way. Ishmael’s descendants are traditionally considered to be the Arab peoples.

So, while both Isaac and Ishmael are sons of Abraham, the term “Hebrew” is primarily used to describe the lineage through Isaac.

 

[David Lamb]

In the context of the Bible, the term “Hebrew” is more closely associated with the descendants of Isaac rather than Ishmael. Here’s a bit more detail:

• Isaac: As the son of Abraham and Sarah, Isaac is considered a Hebrew. His descendants, through his son Jacob (later named Israel), form the twelve tribes of Israel, who are often referred to as Hebrews.
• Ishmael: While Ishmael is also a son of Abraham, he is not typically referred to as a Hebrew in the same way. Ishmael’s descendants are traditionally considered to be the Arab peoples.

So, while both Isaac and Ishmael are sons of Abraham, the term “Hebrew” is primarily used to describe the lineage through Isaac.

As I replied to you before on this thread, I was answering a post which claimed that Abraham's ancestors were Hebrews. I agree with you that Ishmael's descendants weren't referred to as Hebrews.

 

[CoreyD]

So the first day was the day the earth began to rotate?

Could you also ask him for me, if a literal 24 hour day is possible without the sun. I seem to be speaking some kind of foreign language. Thanks.

 

[CoreyD]

Where does the bible refer to anybody except descendants of Abraham as Hebrews?

Where does the Bible refer to descendants of Abraham as Hebrews?

Yes, I know that some people think that "Hebrew" comes from "Eber", however, if descendants of Eber were all Hebrews, that would lead to there being many nationalities that are Hebrew. (Eber himself had two sons, Peleg and Joktan. Joktan had 13 sons. All these would have had descendants too). Such an idea means it would be meaningless for the apostle Paul to say that he was "a Hebrew of the Hebrews."

I explained that David.
Did you not read it?
I'll copy paste it for you.

The Hebrew word for Hebrew, is Ibri, and is associated with Eber, perhaps meaning "descendant of Eber".
So there were descendants of Eber, called Hebrews.
Who would these be?
The Bible provides the line of descent at Genesis 11:14-27
Eber; Peleg; Reu; Serug; Nahor; Terah; Abram
These are the descendants of Shem. Genesis 11:10

So, according to the Bible, the descendants of Eber, through his son Peleg, were Hebrew, and this includes Abraham (Abram).

Peleg was the line through which the term applied. This is Biblical, and of God.
It is just as Judah was the line trough which the Messiah would come, even though there were twelve tribes.
In the Bible, certain lines of descent were significant, because of their connection to God's purpose.
Abram - Abraham - is a significant figure in God's purpose. Peleg was the root of that descent.

You said you "know that some people think that "Hebrew" comes from "Eber"".
What are you saying, that it is just a view, and not a fact?
If so, we can dig into that a bit more.