Genesis 1:5 THE FIRST DAY (KJV)

[Job 33:6]

What I meant was that the bible is God's inspired word. As such, we don't need to measure its contents by modern science or by ancient near east cosmology.

Tell that to YECs that want to make it out to be a modern science textbook.

 

[Platte]

I’ve seen that posted several times over the past few months. If you don’t mind me asking a question. I’m kinda perplexed when I see that posted. I could understand someone who doesn’t believe in the Bible or someone who doesn’t believe in Christianity posting that to devalue or marginalize the Bible. What I don’t understand is why would a Christian post that? Please don’t take offense to the question it truly is a question I have.

 

[Job 33:6]

I’ve seen that posted several times over the past few months. If you don’t mind me asking a question. I’m kinda perplexed when I see that posted. I could understand someone who doesn’t believe in the Bible or someone who doesn’t believe in Christianity posting that to devalue or marginalize the Bible. What I don’t understand is why would a Christian post that? Please don’t take offense to the question it truly is a question I have.

Why do you think that reflecting on the context of the original authorship of the Bible is "marginalizing" it?

ESV Job 22:14
Thick clouds veil him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven.’ or

ESV Job 37:18
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

from the NASB, Amos 9:6
The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name.

It isnt marginalization, so much as it is, simply recognizing that the Old Testament authors were communicating their message through their cultural background.

 

[Platte]

Why do you think that reflecting on the context of the original authorship of the Bible is "marginalizing" it?

ESV Job 22:14
Thick clouds veil him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven.’ or

ESV Job 37:18
Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?

from the NASB, Amos 9:6
The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name.

It isnt marginalization, so much as it is, simply recognizing that the Old Testament authors were communicating their message through their cultural background.

It marginalizes it by presenting a marginalized message. You don’t see how that devalues the Bible? Showing that the Bible is based on incorrect information diminishes the information that the Bible is saying. It allows you to disregard or change the content of the Bible where you deem appropriate.

Like I said I can understand a non Christian doing that but why would a Christian? A non Christian actually makes fun of the Bible when they read stuff like that

I’m perplexed why a Christian would spread that message.

 

[Job 33:6]

It marginalizes it by presenting a marginalized message. You don’t see how that devalues the Bible? Showing that the Bible is based on incorrect information diminishes the information that the Bible is saying.

Pointing out that the Bible has a context, is not equivalent to suggesting that it's based on false information. God is still the King of Kings, the Most High, whether the Bible speaks about God through an ancient context or not. And none of this has anything to do with Jesus either. It's an old testament concept.

 

[Platte]

Pointing out that the Bible has a context, is not equivalent to suggesting that it's based on false information.

That is what you are suggesting. That it’s based on a flat earth (false information)

God is still the King of Kings, the Most High, whether the Bible speaks about God through an ancient context or not. And none of this has anything to do with Jesus either. It's an old testament concept.

You are even using translations of the Bible that most closely align with that message

The problem is that that is NOT the Ancient Israelite Cosmology. And the Bible is not based on that principle.

I’m perplexed.

 

[Job 33:6]

That is what you are suggesting. That it’s based on a flat earth (false information)

The old testament is not based on the shape of the earth. It's a message about who God is, and things like the purposes of mankind. It's not about the shape of the earth.

Just because something is in the Bible, doesn't mean that the Bible is based on that detail.

There are Egyptian gods in the Bible. But I'm pretty sure the Bible is not based on them either.

 

[Platte]

The old testament is not based on the shape of the earth. It's a message about who God is, and things like the purposes of mankind. It's not about the shape of the earth.

Just because something is in the Bible, doesn't mean that the Bible is based on that detail.

There are Egyptian gods in the Bible. But I'm pretty sure the Bible is not based on them either.

The Old Testament is primarily a historical document of the Jewish people. The main theme of that History is to show the effect of obedience vs disobedience to God. Cosmology views and science have little to no impact on historical writings

 

[Job 33:6]

The Old Testament is primarily a historical document of the Jewish people. The main theme of that History is to show the effect of obedience vs disobedience to God. Cosmology views and science have little to no impact on historical writings

So, are you disagreeing with me by suggesting that the Old Testament is based on flat earth?

Remember, I am saying that
"The old testament is not based on the shape of the earth. It's a message about who God is, and things like the purposes of mankind. It's not about the shape of the earth.

Just because something is in the Bible, doesn't mean that the Bible is based on that detail.

There are Egyptian gods in the Bible. But I'm pretty sure the Bible is not based on them either."

So, are you agreeing or disagreeing?

 

[Platte]

So, are you disagreeing with me by suggesting that the Old Testament is based on flat earth?

Remember, I am saying that
"The old testament is not based on the shape of the earth. It's a message about who God is, and things like the purposes of mankind. It's not about the shape of the earth.

Just because something is in the Bible, doesn't mean that the Bible is based on that detail.

There are Egyptian gods in the Bible. But I'm pretty sure the Bible is not based on them either."

So, are you agreeing or disagreeing?

I disagree with your post/position and image of the Ancient Israelite Cosmology (as if that was indeed what the Ancient Israelites believed) and your implications that the Bible is influenced or has any basis in that.

 

[Job 33:6]

I disagree with your post/position and image of the Ancient Israelite Cosmology (as if that was indeed what the Ancient Israelites believed) and your implications that the Bible is influenced or has any basis in that.

Well, obviously.

 

[Job 33:6]

That is what you are suggesting. That it’s based on a flat earth (false information)

You are even using translations of the Bible that most closely align with that message

The problem is that that is NOT the Ancient Israelite Cosmology. And the Bible is not based on that principle.

I’m perplexed.

So I'll go back to this post again. Now that we have reaffirmed that you disagree. And I'll say:

The old testament is not based on the shape of the earth. It's a message about who God is, and things like the purposes of mankind. It's not about the shape of the earth.

Just because something is in the Bible, doesn't mean that the Bible is based on that detail.

There are Egyptian gods in the Bible. But I'm pretty sure the Bible is not based on them either.

For me, the Bible’s core message is about God’s nature, His relationship with humanity, and the spiritual truths that transcend culture and time. Recognizing that the Bible reflects the worldview of its original audience (like ancient near east cosmology) doesn’t mean the Bible is wrong or irrelevant. Rather, it highlights God’s ability to meet people where they are, even in their understanding of the world. The same way we don’t believe in the Egyptian gods mentioned in the Bible, we can still learn profound truths from these ancient texts. (I'm assuming that you don't believe that Egyptian gods of the OT are real).

It’s about God’s character and His plan for us. I hope we can focus on those timeless truths, even if we approach certain elements differently.

 

[Platte]

The old testament is not based on the shape of the earth.

Yet you keep bringing it up

It's a message about who God is, and things like the purposes of mankind. It's not about the shape of the earth.

It seems you are reluctant to mention the Historical purpose of the Bible. I may have overlooked it if you did mention it.

There are Egyptian gods in the Bible. But I'm pretty sure the Bible is not based on them either.

Egyptian gods in the Bible?

For me, the Bible’s core message is about God’s nature, His relationship with humanity, and the spiritual truths that transcend culture and time.

Perhaps we disagree here to some extent. For me the core message is God creating the universe for man with the purpose of establishing his family with man.

Recognizing that the Bible reflects the worldview of its original audience (like ancient near east cosmology) doesn’t mean the Bible is wrong or irrelevant.

Historical documents hold little to no worldview but rather presents historically what occurred. The Old Testament is primarily a historical document - especially Genesis - Deut

Rather, it highlights God’s ability to meet people where they are, even in their understanding of the world. The same way we don’t believe in the Egyptian gods mentioned in the Bible, we can still learn profound truths from these ancient texts. (I'm assuming that you don't believe that Egyptian gods of the OT are real).

Egyptian gods in the Bible?


By the way. You don’t know the worldview of the original audience. Your guesses from what I’ve been seeing you post are mostly wrong. It’s a good thing the worldview of the original audience is irrelevant when reading the Bible

 

[Job 33:6]

Yet you keep bringing it up

It seems you are reluctant to mention the Historical purpose of the Bible. I may have overlooked it if you did mention it.

That's because an ancient contextual perspective of it, is in the Bible.

And history is not inherently scientific in nature. I can tell you the history of world war 2, but that has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

Do you think that ancient Israelites not knowing the shape of the earth, prevents them from telling history?

 

[Platte]

That's because an ancient contextual perspective of it, is in the Bible.

Ok first you say there is a contextual perspective of the shape of the earth is in the Bible (their isn’t one)
And then you say that history (the Bible) has nothing to do with the shape of the earth

And history is not inherently scientific in nature. I can tell you the history of world war 2, but that has nothing to do with the shape of the earth.

Do you think that ancient Israelites not knowing the shape of the earth, prevents them from telling history?

We do not know what the ancient Israelites knew about the shape of the earth. The Bible makes no reference to it.

 

[davetaff]

Ok first you say there is a contextual perspective of the shape of the earth is in the Bible (their isn’t one)
And then you say that history (the Bible) has nothing to do with the shape of the earth


We do not know what the ancient Israelites knew about the shape of the earth. The Bible makes no reference to it.

Hi Platte
Thank you for your post how about this

Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Job 33:6]

Egyptian gods in the Bible?

Exodus 12:12 ESV
[12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.

Who do you think God was talking about here? Some clay statues?

Numbers 33:4 ESV
[4] while the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn, whom the Lord had struck down among them. On their gods also the Lord executed judgments.

Isaiah 19:1 ESV
[1] An oracle concerning Egypt. Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt; and the idols of Egypt will tremble at his presence, and the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them.

Jeremiah 46:25 ESV
[25] The Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, said: “Behold, I am bringing punishment upon Amon of Thebes, and Pharaoh and Egypt and her gods and her kings, upon Pharaoh and those who trust in him.

Ezekiel 30:13 ESV
[13] “Thus says the Lord God: “I will destroy the idols and put an end to the images in Memphis; there shall no longer be a prince from the land of Egypt; so I will put fear in the land of Egypt.

Psalm 82:1, 6-7 ESV
[1] God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
[6] I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; [7] nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.”

Psalm 89:5-7 ESV
[5] Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord, your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones! [6] For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord, [7] a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all who are around him?

1 Kings 18:21-27 ESV
[21] And Elijah came near to all the people and said, “How long will you go limping between two different opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him.” And the people did not answer him a word. [22] Then Elijah said to the people, “I, even I only, am left a prophet of the Lord, but Baal’s prophets are 450 men. [23] Let two bulls be given to us, and let them choose one bull for themselves and cut it in pieces and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. And I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood and put no fire to it. [24] And you call upon the name of your god, and I will call upon the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, he is God.” And all the people answered, “It is well spoken.” [25] Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many, and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it.” [26] And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, “O Baal, answer us!” But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made. [27] And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”

1 Kings 11:4-5, 9 ESV
[4] For when Solomon was old his wives turned away his heart after other gods, and his heart was not wholly true to the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father. [5] For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
[9] And the Lord was angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice

Zephaniah 2:11 ESV
[11] The Lord will be awesome against them; for he will famish all the gods of the earth, and to him shall bow down, each in its place, all the lands of the nations.

It is not statues bowing down. It is the pagan deities of the Lord's enemies. Philistine gods.

Yes. Pagan deities are regularly referenced in the old testament. Sometimes being worshipped by people, and other times directly interacting with God.

 

[David Lamb]

Egyptian gods in the Bible?

I imagine he was thinking of things like the worship of the golden calf, which was based on an Egyptian deity.

 

[Job 33:6]

I imagine he was thinking of things like the worship of the golden calf, which was based on an Egyptian deity.

It's more than that. God judges pagan deities in many locations throughout the old testament.

Psalm 82:1-3, 6-8 ESV
[1] God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: [2] “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah [3] Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
[6] I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; [7] nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.” [8] Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!

Psalm 89:5-8 ESV
[5] Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord, your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones! [6] For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord, [7] a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all who are around him? [8] O Lord God of hosts, who is mighty as you are, O Lord, with your faithfulness all around you?

That's what God does throughout the old testament. That's why it is repeated, "who is as mighty as you are? Who in the skies?".

It's not talking about golden statues. It's talking about the actual gods of the nations.

Exodus 12:12 ESV
[12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.

That's what the Exodus plagues are all about. It is God defeating the Egyptian pantheon. Each plague involves the defeat of a pagan god. Such as the plague of darkness demonstrating Gods power over the Egyptian sun god.

 

[David Lamb]

It's more than that. God judges pagan deities in many locations throughout the old testament.

Psalm 82:1-3, 6-8 ESV
[1] God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment: [2] “How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah [3] Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
[6] I said, “You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you; [7] nevertheless, like men you shall die, and fall like any prince.” [8] Arise, O God, judge the earth; for you shall inherit all the nations!

Psalm 89:5-8 ESV
[5] Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord, your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones! [6] For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord, [7] a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all who are around him? [8] O Lord God of hosts, who is mighty as you are, O Lord, with your faithfulness all around you?

That's what God does throughout the old testament. That's why it is repeated, "who is as mighty as you are? Who in the skies?".

It's not talking about golden statues. It's talking about the actual gods of the nations.

Exodus 12:12 ESV
[12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgments: I am the Lord.

That's what the Exodus plagues are all about. It is God defeating the Egyptian pantheon. Each plague involves the defeat of a pagan god. Such as the plague of darkness demonstrating Gods power over the Egyptian sun god.

True, but before, you mention Egyptian gods in particular.