pitabread

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So, if it didn't happen by chance, it must have been deliberately designed and implemented.

Not necessarily.

As I already stated, our current genetic code is the result of the process of evolution over a 4 billion year period.

This doesn't mean it occurred "spontaneously" or "by chance". It means it's the result of a recursive process over time.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Not necessarily.

As I already stated, our current genetic code is the result of the process of evolution over a 4 billion year period.

This doesn't mean it occurred "spontaneously" or "by chance". It means it's the result of a recursive process over time.
But how did it start?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I already stated this earlier. If you're looking for the origins of genetics, you're into biochemistry at that point and the formation of organic molecules.
Well, I don't have to be an expert in biochemistry to accept the fact that God created all these things out of nothing and spoke all the required genetic information into the structure of cells for all organic beings.

God said it in the first two chapters of Genesis, and He doesn't have to explain anything to anyone. What He has said is not open to human judgment at all. You either believe it or not.

In fact, it is no skin off my nose whatever you decide to believe. That is your own choice and your responsibility.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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That doesn't support any of your claims. What scientist? What computer? What program? What data?
My video link on the thread should explain it.
Actually, I don't really care whether you believe it or not. The bottom line for me is that I do, and that is good enough for me.
 
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Lazarus Long

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My video link on the thread should explain it.
Actually, I don't really care whether you believe it or not. The bottom line for me is that I do, and that is good enough for me.
Well that should go some way towards pacifying your fear of death.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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Well that should go some way towards pacifying your fear of death.
What is it about my comment that makes you think I have a fear of death?
 
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Lazarus Long

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What is it about my comment that makes you think I have a fear of death?
This:
So, it comes down to whether we believe the first two chapters of Genesis or not. If we can't believe those two chapters as being the true historical account of the creation of the universe, then we can't rely on the rest of the Bible, including the promises of God involving our salvation. Therefore, we can't have any confidence that we are going to experience anything after death but absolute oblivion. After all, if we are just a bag of molecules and nothing more, what is the point of all our planning for the future, our aspirations, and quest for self-improvement and a better world, if at the end of our lives all we do is to rot in the grave and nothing more?
 
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Shemjaza

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The problem is that there is no substantive evidence for evolution. It is all guesswork about something that might have or probably happened.
False.

We can see it happen on small scale in real time. Significant changes in simple fast breeding organisms, or small scale adaptations in slower breeding creatures like humans.

All evidence comes down to "might have or probably happened", that's what evidence is. Guesswork is a misleading term, conclusions from evidence is more appropriate.

Actually, those who are working so hard at preserving endangered species of animals and bird are denying evolution, because they are working against natural selection in which it is the survival of the fittest. If a species is unable to survive in the natural, then isn't that how evolution works?

Evolution is a description of how the natural world works, not a source of moral or practical guidance. (The laws of gravity don't mean I should throw people out windows).

Evolution explains why after extinctions free up niches in the natural world other species adapt and diversify to exploit those opportunities.

That another species will eventually take its place doesn't make its loss any less tragic any more then a child's death being meaningless because kids are born every day.

The issue is that when godless scientists refuse to let the divine have a foot in the door, evolution is their only answer. But evolution is not a science because science has to be based on empirical evidence, which is non-existent for it.

The fossil record; the patterns of genetic similarity; real time examples of mutation, adaptation and speciation... all absolutely empirical evidence.

Godless scientists is also a false statement, people of all religious backgrounds accept evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life.

But if you would like the divine to have a foot in the door of science... can you describe how the dive can be tested or falsified? Because if there isn't a way to test it, then it has no place in science.

Creation is also not a science, because it involves God who created everything out of nothing in six 24 hour days. That is a supernatural miracle and cannot be supported by science.
I absolutely agree... however, it leads to the conclusion that being all powerful an able to create the world and life in it in any way, he chose to make it in such a way that leads to the conclusion that it is billions of years old and that life all evolved from a common ancestor.

So, it comes down to whether we believe the first two chapters of Genesis or not. If we can't believe those two chapters as being the true historical account of the creation of the universe, then we can't rely on the rest of the Bible, including the promises of God involving our salvation. Therefore, we can't have any confidence that we are going to experience anything after death but absolute oblivion. After all, if we are just a bag of molecules and nothing more, what is the point of all our planning for the future, our aspirations, and quest for self-improvement and a better world, if at the end of our lives all we do is to rot in the grave and nothing more?

So, deciding not to accept the first two chapters of Genesis as literal, accurate history, opens up a whole can of worms which we cannot resolve.
Personally I don't think how nice something sounds is a reasonable basis of how true something is.

I do think I'm doomed to eventually cease to exist, that's no reason not to be as good a person as I can and to try to make the world a little better. You don't have to get a reward or see the results to want to do the right thing.
 
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But that is not what the Bible says. It says that God, the greatest intelligence in all of eternity, created the universe and everything in it through His own design, and spoke it all into being, and wrote the complex genetic information into every single cell. There is a significant difference between an intelligent God creating out of nothing and something just coming into existence by itself out of chance. The odds of anything coming into existence by chance is 1:10 to the power of 1 billion.
Unfortunately life looks just like it is the product of evolution with all of the flaws that includes. The flaws that we see make perfect sense with evolution. Your claim amounts to blasphemy since you are calling God incompetent. We see things in life that no competent designer would use.

And you have no ability to calculate the odds of the universe coming from nothing. Worse yet, odds arguments refute gods since their ability to appear by that "logic" is even less.
 
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Subduction Zone

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The problem is that there is no substantive evidence for evolution. It is all guesswork about something that might have or probably happened.
I see that you do not understand the nature of evidence. Would you like to discuss this topic?
 
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Nope, that is a false dichotomy. That claim also puts a huge burden of proof upon you. Are you sure that you want to do that?
I don't have to prove anything. God doesn't have to prove the truth of His Word either. He said it, and leaves you to either believe or not believe it.
 
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