generational curses?

[Mathetes the kerux]

Sorry..
You are incorrect.
Prove the curse?
Flesh is flesh,but that does not prove a spiritual curse.

?

Sorry . . . but it seems that I cannot follow your reasoning . . . something is missing in the thought . . . disjointed.

Would you mind rephrasing with a little clarity?

Thanks

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

R U serious?

I asked you a serious question . . . and this is what you respond with?

Context determines meaning . . . and context does not allow you to make the interpretative conclusion that you have. So instead of making a presumption about you . . . I asked a fair and honest question so as to be fair to you.

No..no..no..you meant it as an insult.Yet at the same time you hold up such an obvious truth that any bible student takes for granted.In that action,you revealed a lot.heheheh.

Wooow,he knows what herms is..woooow!

See what I mean.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

No..no..no..you meant it as an insult.Yet at the same time you hold up such an obvious truth that any bible student takes for granted.In that action,you revealed a lot.heheheh.

Wooow,he knows what herms is..woooow!

See what I mean.

No..no..no..you meant it as an insult

I did? Really? Hmm . . . me thinks I know me better than you do. You made an assumption about my heart w/o asking me what I meant. Bad form. I MEANT NO INSULT AT ALL. Again . . . I asked a serious question.

Yet at the same time you hold up such an obvious truth that any bible student takes for granted.In that action,you revealed a lot

Your thoughts are not clear to me again . . . you have to clarify.

Wooow,he knows what herms is..woooow!

See what I mean.

No . . . I dont.

Your train of thought is not linking together for me. Sorry.

 

[Mrs.Amy]

Here is kind of what I think about it:
that maybe a curse in my family was possible...but once I became a Christian, that sort of wiped it away (behold all things are made new)...however there still may be repercussions from that aforementioned curse that I may have to deal with for awhile. (sort of like let's say you were a prostitute and got AIDS...then you accepted Christ....well your old lifestyle has been forgiven...however, you still have the AIDS).

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

Here is kind of what I think about it:
that maybe a curse in my family was possible...but once I became a Christian, that sort of wiped it away (behold all things are made new)...however there still may be repercussions from that aforementioned curse that I may have to deal with for awhile. (sort of like let's say you were a prostitute and got AIDS...then you accepted Christ....well your old lifestyle has been forgiven...however, you still have the AIDS).

Hi.Yes,you may need healing,but God will do that for you.Things take time.But you are free from your past sins,and are in no way,reponsible for others.Things take time,just trust the ,masters hand.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

I did? Really? Hmm . . . me thinks I know me better than you do. You made an assumption about my heart w/o asking me what I meant. Bad form. I MEANT NO INSULT AT ALL. Again . . . I asked a serious question.



Your thoughts are not clear to me again . . . you have to clarify.


No . . . I dont.

Your train of thought is not linking together for me. Sorry.

Lets see your best scripture filled post,to show that new covenant believers lived under a curse,despite that fact the the Lord said under the new Covenant,there are no curses for us.Lets see scripture please.

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

Lets see your best scripture filled post,to show that new covenant believers lived under a curse,despite that fact the the Lord said under the new Covenant,there are no curses for us.Lets see scripture please.

What are you talking about?!

I stated from the GATE that I wasn't sure where I fall on the issue.

My qualm with you is your using Ezekiel and Jeremiah pericopes to try and proof text your position with BAD hermeneutics.

So . . . I will not make the post you are asking for for 2 reasons.

1. I am not sure where I fall
2. It has nothing to do with what we were interacting upon.

If you want to post YOUR position . . . then do so . . . but seeing as I don't really have one . . . I won't.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

What are you talking about?!

I stated from the GATE that I wasn't sure where I fall on the issue.

My qualm with you is your using Ezekiel and Jeremiah pericopes to try and proof text your position with BAD hermeneutics.

So . . . I will not make the post you are asking for for 2 reasons.

1. I am not sure where I fall
2. It has nothing to do with what we were interacting upon.

If you want to post YOUR position . . . then do so . . . but seeing as I don't really have one . . . I won't.

ok,I just thought that if you believed in it,or whatever,you would have scriptural support.But just out of curiousity,what would be your best if you were to use the bible to prove that a generational curse can be on a Christian? Thanks.

Jeremiah 31.How much more legitimate do you want? If the curse removal is not a part of the new cov,then I guess you think he does not write on our hearts?

So,any scripture from You?

 

[vja4Him]

Hi.
I posted scripture to show we are not under a curse,as new covenant believers.

I do not believe that we are under generational curses. I read somewhere that this false doctrine somehow ties in with other false teachings within, I think, the Word Faith Movement ... ?

I had some experiences (bad!) with churches that teach generational curses. They were also really messed up with false Word Faith teachings.

I am set free in Jesus Christ. There are no generational curses. There is such things as demon oppression, family abuse, sexual abuse, drug addiction, etc., but no generational curses. We are all responsible for our own sins.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

I do not believe that we are under generational curses. I read somewhere that this false doctrine somehow ties in with other false teachings within, I think, the Word Faith Movement ... ?

I had some experiences (bad!) with churches that teach generational curses. They were also really messed up with false Word Faith teachings.

I am set free in Jesus Christ. There are no generational curses. There is such things as demon oppression, family abuse, sexual abuse, drug addiction, etc., but no generational curses. We are all responsible for our own sins.

Hi.I totally agree.The whole idea of being in trouble for our past sins,let alone others is totally unscriptural!

We have a great high priest,who has cleansed us of our sins,and by his sacrifce we have been made holy,(Hebrews 10:10)not under a curse,holy!



God bless you!

 

[Mrs.Amy]

so kinda along the same lines then (going by what vja4Him said) about oppression...can Christians still be under constant oppression?

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

so kinda along the same lines then (going by what vja4Him said) about oppression...can Christians still be under constant oppression?

Ok,well a curse from our ancestors sins,is alot different.

The bible does speak of the devil,and attacks and such.But in my opinion,there are more verses that say we have the victory over the devil,then there are implying constant opression.

If you read the list of things,Paul called the flesh,it can seem spiritual,but often is just the flesh.

Things that could seem to be spirits huh? Witchcraft,fits of rage..

Galatians 5:19-21


19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.


I would advise,especially on a forum to be weary of the "deliverance ministry" types.They see spirits everywhere!

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

We don't have to fear any curses,they are nailed to a tree.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

ok,I just thought that if you believed in it,or whatever,you would have scriptural support.But just out of curiousity,what would be your best if you were to use the bible to prove that a generational curse can be on a Christian? Thanks.

Jeremiah 31.How much more legitimate do you want? If the curse removal is not a part of the new cov,then I guess you think he does not write on our hearts?

So,any scripture from You?

ok,I just thought that if you believed in it,or whatever,you would have scriptural support

I don't know where I fall . . . I am heavily scripture centered . . . and there is just not a lot there to establish a sound doctrine upon it.

But I DO KNOW that many who try to provide texts the prove that curses are NOT real do not quote the verses in context OR provide the correct udnerstanding of the verse.

FOR INSTANCE, Jeremiah 31 has NOTHING to do with Spiritual Warfare. So to try and use it to prove that something is errant in a particular persons systematic is WRONG use of scripture and systematics.

I will respond with my best attempt later.

 

[BIBLE TIMES]

I don't know where I fall . . . I am heavily scripture centered . . . and there is just not a lot there to establish a sound doctrine upon it.

But I DO KNOW that many who try to provide texts the prove that curses are NOT real do not quote the verses in context OR provide the correct udnerstanding of the verse.

FOR INSTANCE, Jeremiah 31 has NOTHING to do with Spiritual Warfare. So to try and use it to prove that something is errant in a particular persons systematic is WRONG use of scripture and systematics.

I will respond with my best attempt later.

I understand what you are saying,warfare is warfare.
Maybe I misunderstood your earlier thoughts about connecting warfare to curses.Forums do that ..lol.God bless!

 

[Mathetes the kerux]

We don't have to fear any curses,they are nailed to a tree.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us--for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE"--

M-kay . . . context is the "law" (nomos) which refers to
1. The Mosaic Law and the decrees thereof which Paul was battling against with the Judaizers who said that people needed to keep this law.

2. Whatever "curse" is here is connected with this concept of the Mosaic Law . . . not the effect of demons in spiritual warfare.

The curse of the law is found NOT in our relation to the demonic realm but to God Himself. The curse we must bear is the requirement to keep the WHOLE Law in order to be justified before Him . . . which we CANNOT, which is why it is a CURSE.

Hence the curse spoken of here is in relationship to God and has nothing to do with the believers battle with the entities of darkness.

I think that the problem is the word "curse." It has a biblical connotation which is entirely different than that of our current 21st Cent colloquial usage. Kataras means quite simply imprecation . . . negative declaration. The common usage of witches and spells and special "magical" chants really doesn't jive with the biblical term.

For me, the concept that the spiritual warfare camps try to promote should not be called "generational curses" but social sins. My grand daddy had an alcohol problem . . . now my dad does . . . and now I am prone to the same sinful tendencies because of social conditioning. Not to mention that if there IS that type of demonic influence around my grandfather, there is NO DOUBT that such an entity would seek to further its hold not only in the grandfather's life BUT ALSO IN THE LIFE OF THE NEXT GENERATION.

That spirit would have a easier target in that particular family (than say another family within which such a sin [in this case alcohol] does not have any effect) and would certainly use the social climate of that home which has been saturated with that atmosphere of sin to gain any knds of footholds that it may to infect any other members that it can.

So, while there is NO spiritual "right" that the spirit may have to enter into a person who has never had a drop of alcohol and make them an alcoholic, simply by sheer virtue that the "father" was an alcoholic, there certainly is the greater power of the spirit because of its pre-infective work with the older generations.

I think that this is where I would stand now, currently, with the current concepts of spiritual warfare.

The battling against these connections between generations, then, becomes a matter of SIN and repentance in sanctification and warring against breaking these ties and not some ethereal "magical" connection that gives demons rights over subsequent generations.

So this is probably where I would fall.

 

[Rebecca76]

so kinda along the same lines then (going by what vja4Him said) about oppression...can Christians still be under constant oppression?

Info from the St. Pio Center for Spiritual Warfare:

How Can You Become Demonized?


The sources of demonization are various but generally fall into three categories:

1. Inattention or Failure to live the Christ-Life: Whenever we move away from God we move away from His protection. As one old Baptist preacher said once, “The best way to keep the devil out of our lives is to keep Christ in our lives.” We need to develop our faith and devotional life with God. Inattention to this leaves us vulnerable to the attacks of the Evil One.
2. Sins of Commission and Omission: Living a sinful life guarantees vulnerability to the Evil One. We need to deal with sin in our life — both the sins we actively or habitually commit and the sins that come from not doing what is right. Sin pokes holes in the hedge of protection that God has erected around us; it leaves the gate to our lives unlocked.
3. Sins of Others: The “sins of the fathers” is often a sad reason for the problems and even the demonization of the children. One of the most famous cases of possession was in Iowa in the 1920s. (To read an account of this case see, Begone Satan!) This was a case in which the possessed woman had been repeatedly cursed by her wicked father. The poor girl suffered terribly due to her father's sin.
   
   On occasion we can also suffer from curses and spells perpetrated upon us any anyone who is evil enough to want to do such a thing.
   
   In these cases, there is nothing we have done to cause the demonization. We are innocent. We are, rather, victims of other people's sin.

Source: saintpiocenter.org/SelfHelp/SevenSteps.asp

A quick comment about curses and spells - the only reason these have an effect is because the person casting them is calling on demons to do the dirty work.

 

[gideon army]

Let Scripture show us via the Scripture that Christ did redeem us from Generation Curses:

Jer 31:29 In those days they shall say no more: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.'

Please then contrast with the following:-

John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

Wow, isn't it Magnificent/ Glorious & Long Suffering our LORD Christ is? Imagine being Nailed Hung on that Cross suspended between Heaven & Earth carrying our sins to Fulfill the Morning (9am) Sacrifice & Evening (3pm) sacrifice without a shred of skin left on HIS Body so that He'll fulfill Both Sacrifices & not before REDEEMING us HIS Beloved of ALL Generational Curses.

However there's this clause:-

Jer 31:30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Then pray tell us what's this all about, It's Referring to the 10 Commandments :-

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, "Cursed [is] everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

Therefore those who Gladly recieve preaching on LAW & LAW conscious then they are Obviously Under the Curse if they try via their own might to keep them & Scripture tells us that NOBODY can keep them (Every single one of them In Mind/ Speech/ Actions) hence SelfCondemnation which leads to all the Curses of Deu 28

 

[marklbernard]

All of the covenental curses fell on Christ when He was crucified.

Galatians 3:13-14 (ESV)
13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

[1]
[1] The Holy Bible : English standard version. 2001. Wheaton: Standard Bible Society.

To our Spiritual Nature we are freed from all of the curses of the Law.

However in saying this we must consider that in our flesh, that is to say in our sinful nature, due to sinful habits passed down through the generational line, whether that maybe via spiritual forces, or simply weaknesses that are written into our genetic code, through the destructive process of the force of sin, or even the familial environment that we grew up in, there may be these areas that have helped to shape our sinful nature and have formed strongholds in our lives that God will expose and for the sake of ongoing growth and maturity we must deal with.

This does not mean however that there is a curse attached to this. This is Old Testament Covenant, Law specific Curses that once and for all have been dealt with by Christ

 

[gideon army]

This does not mean however that there is a curse attached to this. This is Old Testament Covenant, Law specific Curses that once and for all have been dealt with by Christ

Hi there Markbernard,

If what you've stated is true then please kindly explain the following:-

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Believeth Original Greek pisteuō & translated to:-

(1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
(2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith


Basically what Jesus is saying that whomsoever doesn't believe HE saves them Completely / Eternally is already CONDEMNED Therefore Scriptures is really Consistant

Interesting? Paul's calls those whom practice the Law as Cursed - Any Possibility Paul is a Lair? Humm, then again Scriptures is of the Holy Spirit & so that makes the Holy Spirit a Lair as Well? Wait, it's also known as Word of Christo, wow that makes Christ/Holy Spirit & Paul all Lairs Sorry forgotten to include Prophet Jeremiah as as Lair in the Group of 'Lairs" accordingly to your supposition