General anesthesia and consciousness

[All Becomes New]

If it cannot be reproduced, then any claims of evidence are just claims. Again, this is because by its nature, the supernatural is outside of nature.

No. Some things only happen once in history. They are not reproducible, but we still believe they happened. Like elephants going across the alps.

 

[All Becomes New]

So do not put anything more on an nde than if it was just a dream or a vision - nothing can be built upon quicksand and last.

You have already demonstrated you are not willing to look at the evidence fairly so this doesn't surprise me.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

No. Some things only happen once in history. They are not reproducible, but we still believe they happened. Like elephants going across the alps.

Which is an event with multiple lines of evidence.

 

[Emmawowee]

Au contrare.... several posters have presented you evidence , and you dismiss it ...

The "evidence" you have posted , so far, is no better than quicksand to build upon.... and has been debunked by Scientific American as posted a few times, and others as well.

i.e. you cannot prove the unprovable ...... so why try at all ?

“Scientific” American’s points have been debunked several times in this thread but it continues to grasp at straws to try and call it hallucinations similar to how a toddler thinks a bear is a dog because it has four legs. Still waiting on their wonderful materialist explanation for consciousness.

 

[Emmawowee]

That appears to be your opinion, and I'd guess you're sticking to it.

Yes. Agree to disagree with you.

 

[partinobodycular]

You are in no position to judge.

I am however in a position to offer an explanation other than your preferred one. One which I personally believe to be quite reasonable. I'm not expecting you to agree, but I am expecting you to consider it in the same forthright manner that it was presented.

You make generic assumptions based on lack of study.
Read her book for background On that one case.

You want to judge from only a few paragraph Summary Of a single case,

Well this hardly amounts to a rebuttal of my argument, but if you truly believe that I've overlooked some important detail than please point it out to me, don't simply ask me to go find it for myself.

And if a single case isn't enough for you then please proffer another. I'd be more than happy to take a look at anything that you have to offer.

 

[All Becomes New]

nor has anyone esle.

How do you know that?

 

[All Becomes New]

Why make a movie out of one and make millions of dollars from one ?

That seems to be the nub of the issue for you. You don't want to see abuse from some things. So your belief is based on emotional reasoning, not based on the evidence. Now, I'm not saying people are solely rational. I don't believe that at all. No one is purely rational. I'm saying your belief does not match the evidence. For example, do you believe that the elders should lay their hands on the sick so God heals them? Well, that can be abused as well. But I am assuming you believe the Bible and wouldn't have a problem with laying hands on people to have them healed.

 

[All Becomes New]

No, not at all accurate. You have made some kind of deal out of something non-proveable and non-important. Proven to be "quicksand" in most cases, if not all cases - as you cannot build on an nde.

Maybe someone sometime had an nde ?

So what ? Many people have dreams and visions.

So what good is it to make a big deal out of a non-provable nde thing ?

I posted the results of two studies that said there was no natural explanation for NDEs. I am sure there are hundreds more. And you have not engaged with those at all.

I wonder why you think something must be "proven" before you believe it. Is it proven that Christ rose from the dead? No, it is not. A lot of people don't think He did. Does that mean it is not true? I would assume if you are a Christian you would believe that it is true that Christ rose from the dead. If you don't believe this, I would be happy to provide evidence for this.

 

[Mountainmike]

I am however in a position to offer an explanation other than your preferred one. One which I personally believe to be quite reasonable. I'm not expecting you to agree, but I am expecting you to consider it in the same forthright manner that it was presented.



Well this hardly amounts to a rebuttal of my argument, but if you truly believe that I've overlooked some important detail than please point it out to me, don't simply ask me to go find it for myself.

And if a single case isn't enough for you then please proffer another. I'd be more than happy to take a look at anything that you have to offer.

You can offer nothing at all because you refuse to study. Anything. Ever.

you treat qualified medics as idiots who ( unsurprisingly)
1/ are far better qualified to comment
2/ were actually there , you were not
and
3/ they looked for other alternative explanations and DISCOUNTED them.

So For the first time in your life: study THEN comment.
When you have read say 50 papers and/or 5 of the better known books,

Then and ONLY then do you Have a valid opinion. You will know why your illinformed guesses are inadequate.

 

[All Becomes New]

movies

Again, this seems to be the nub of the issue for you. Not the actual evidence.

Some NDEs are impossible to explain naturally. Fact.

 

[All Becomes New]

There's nothing about them that is worthy of noting them except maybe once in a while for the person who has such a dream or vision,
regardless of if it is near death or in the middle of a long life ?

They are used in apologetics to demonstrate that there is life after death. That is extremely valuable to have concrete evidence of life after death.

 

[All Becomes New]

Demonic visits, and oppression, is considered not real , but happens far far far more often, and has more severe consequences in some or many cases.

Why would that happen to Christians though? Why would Christians see Christ in an NDE? Why would other people have an NDE and then become a Christian if they were demonic?

 

[All Becomes New]

There is no apologetics I've ever seen

What you have seen makes no difference. Again, the resurrection of Christ is something many NT scholars reject. But apologetics can be made to show that Christ has risen from the dead. It's literally the same categorically.

 

[partinobodycular]

You can offer nothing at all because you refuse to study. Anything. Ever.

you treat qualified medics as idiots who ( unsurprisingly)
1/ are far better qualified to comment
2/ were actually there , you were not
and
3/ they looked for other alternative explanations and DISCOUNTED them.

So For the first time in your life: study THEN comment.
When you have read say 50 papers and/or 5 of the better known books,

Then and ONLY then do you Have a valid opinion. You will know why your illinformed guesses are inadequate.

So I gave you a valid argument and that's all that you have for a counterargument. Excuse me, but if that's all you've got... bye.

 

[All Becomes New]

So I gave you a valid argument and that's all that you have for a counterargument. Excuse me, but if that's all you've got... bye.

Oh, please. Don't give me that. You're on a Christian site and you are an agnostic.

 

[Emmawowee]

The Promissory Notes of Materialist Professors Are Long Past Due

philosophy of mind,philosophy of biology,neuroscience,neuroscience critique,mind-body problem, paranormal,brain research,memory,parapsychology

headtruth.blogspot.com

 

[All Becomes New]

Which is an event with multiple lines of evidence.

This just shows you are not viewing the evidence fairly. In the case of these NDEs, they are literally trying their hardest to find a natural cause and not finding any.

 

[partinobodycular]

Oh, please. Don't give me that. You're on a Christian site and you are an agnostic.

And that's relevant why?

Oh, and just for future reference, don't let the word agnostic over there fool you, I'll put my Christian credentials up against yours any day. Not that I put a whole lot of stock in things such as names... but it seems that you do. To each their own I suppose.

 

[All Becomes New]

I'll put my Christian credentials

That's interesting.

What kind of credentials are you talking about? Like having a seminary degree? That does not count as merit to being a Christian.