Gender of biblical language words used for divinity

[DamianWarS]

Pardon the interjection.

There is a phenomenon called the Majestic Plural. We see this in monarchies, such as when Victoria said: "We are not amused". Popes also employ it when writing. It is the use of plural grammatic form to indicate majesty and is considered more deferential, even though it refers to the singular. In some languages it is also used when refering to a superior in the third person as well.

This is also present in Hebrew when speaking of God as Elohim and Arabic, as can be seen in the Quran where Allah repeatedly says "we created" or somesuch. It is usually dropped in English translation to singular usage as it is somewhat archaic to most people and erroneously is thought to conflict with ideas like the absolute monotheism of Islam or the OT "behold oh Israel, the Lord is One".

I think the most contextual example of a majestic plural in english is simply capitalization (He, You...); it is not a plural of course but it does show honor and respect at least in written language which I think is the point of the majestic plural (at least part). Queens and Pope's can superimpose their own honor upon themselves but it's less about God putting honor on Himself and more about biblical authors putting honor on God.

Using the majestic plural in english seems forced and only makes it confusing; no doubt this is why it is never translated as "we". However with that said Arabic uses the majestic plural and translations of the Quran into english still use it. A less informed Christian could read an english Quran and feel it affirms the trinity which the majestic isn't about that... maybe english translations should use it so it can be better taught.

Different languages approach these things differently based on their own grammatical rules. For example in Malay languages there are no gender pronouns and everything is "it" but they do have a special "majestic" you. It's not a plural like the english you and is still singular but in the bible it's used to refer to God. Hebrew and Greek don't have a majestic "you" so this is a contextual translation but it would be inappropriate to use the common "you" for God.

 

[Eryk]

Pluralis excellentiae

Hebrew distinguishes grammatical number by endings in nouns, verbs and adjectives. A grammatical phenomenon occurs with a small number of Hebrew nouns, such as elohim "great god" and behemoth "giant beast", whereby a grammatically redundant plural ending (-im, usually masculine plural, or -oth, usually feminine plural) is attached to a noun, but the noun nevertheless continues to take singular verbs and adjectives.

 

[the old scribe]

This makes me think of a passage in the Old man and the Sea by Hemingway:

"He always thought of the sea as ‘la mar’ which is what people call her in Spanish when they love her. Sometimes those who love her say bad things of her but they are always said as though she were a woman. Some of the younger fishermen, those who used buoys as floats for their lines and had motorboats, bought when the shark livers had brought much money, spoke of her as ‘el mar’ which is masculine.They spoke of her as a contestant or a place or even an enemy. But the old man always thought of her as feminine and as something that gave or withheld great favours, and if she did wild or wicked things it was because she could not help them. The moon affects her as it does a woman, he thought."

In most Romance languages the sea is feminine, while it is neuter in English proper. In maritime speak it becomes feminine gendered again. Hemingway alludes to ascribing feminine characteristics to the Sea, but most likely it is due to the Tides I think. The moon and menstruation have always had an association in primitive peoples' minds, as the lunar cycle is about the same length as the menses and both are dramatic cyclical changes. It is the same reason why the moon is usually presented as a goddess in polytheism. The clear lunar association with tides therefore suggests a femininity to the waters as well. Many mythologies have primordial water goddesses as well.
There is no reason to think a woman specifically is more furious than a man or more mutable. We do seem to have this association often, but this might as well be a derivation from a furious feminine sea applied to human females than the reverse.

It is heart warming to read again this passage from the Old Man and the Sea by Hemingway. I had completely forgotten about this one and many others in the Old Man and the Sea.

If there is not some factual equivalents there is not a possibility of analogies.

The attraction of the sea pulls on the desires of man much like the attraction of a woman.
Love of the sea and of women -
Fury of the sea and of women - both unpredictable - states nothing about the fury of men -
Beauty of the sea and of women-
Sustaining food from the sea and sustaining life from women -
The un-fathomed depth of the sea and of women -
Pleasure of the sea and of women -
etc. - You must be able to list more than I can.
While none of these comparisons to the sea are necessarily feminine,
the men, not women, traditionally have gone to sea and have written about the attraction - as with Hemingway in the Old Man and the Sea.

Back to my question - "Why then does a language assume gender for some nouns?" - unless your post #19 answers it, and I am too dense to understand.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

It is heart warming to read again this passage from the Old Man and the Sea by Hemingway. I had completely forgotten about this one and many others in the Old Man and the Sea.

If there is not some factual equivalents there is not a possibility of analogies.

The attraction of the sea pulls on the desires of man much like the attraction of a woman.
Love of the sea and of women -
Fury of the sea and of women - both unpredictable - states nothing about the fury of men -
Beauty of the sea and of women-
Sustaining food from the sea and sustaining life from women -
The un-fathomed depth of the sea and of women -
Pleasure of the sea and of women -
etc. - You must be able to list more than I can.
While none of these comparisons to the sea are necessarily feminine,
the men, not women, traditionally have gone to sea and have written about the attraction - as with Hemingway in the Old Man and the Sea.

Back to my question - "Why then does a language assume gender for some nouns?" - unless your post #19 answers it, and I am too dense to understand.

Some nouns have innate gender in any language by nature of the concepts they describe. The term 'male' will always be gendered or 'father' as in your male immediate ancestor, no matter what term we use to describe it or the grammar of the language otherwise.
Why we have grammar like he or she instead of just neuter is another matter entirely. I guess it adds information and helps differeniate about whom we are talking when we have multiple referents.
This need not stop at gender. Bantu languages for instance have Noun classes, multiple grammatical observances of which gender is only an aspect. So our pronouns or articles change depending on the nature of the noun, whether it is alive or a plant or a metal. In some of the Bantu languages these can run up to 22 different noun classes'. In essence this is grammatical gender beyond and even more complicated then the Indo-European and Afro-Asiatic Male, Female and Neuter.

Why gender was applied to non-gendered things like rocks or books is anyone's guess.It may be by association. Primitive women made meals and men hunted, so hunt became masculine and cooking feminine, or perhaps it refers to fetishistic or animistic periods where these objects really were ascribed such genders which then remained as a residual undertone after their origin had long since been forgotten. Regardless, gender in languages can be quite arbitrary today, as previous posters mentioned as well.