Gays!!!

[Andreusz]

So you think you are more of a man than he was for the times you live in. Like the computer is suppose to speed up things when actually it slows down things. You have so much info. You can't decipher fiction from fact.We have no reliable source.,also to watch t.v. wasting or rotting our minds. Having less thought of our purpose in life to more of a waste ,therefore; recorded history isn't solid evidence. Just like history is being distorted in our public schools. As they disclaim the facts as fiction to thanks giving is thanks to the Indians for the planting of corn. When in reality it was giving thanks to God or To say Easter is about spring break and not as to say Jesus rose from the dead as intended history Ect.

Quoted for incomprehensibility.

 

[KCKID]

You have common sense.God illuminates the Scripture. If you chose to look beyond the truth that can be said in 2 Timothy 3

For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men

Huh? Are you sure that you're responding with the right scriptures?

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Quoted for incomprehensibility.

+1,000,000,001

 

[KCKID]

The New Testament cliams that there is already quite the number of people there already.

Ignorance does not need to be tolerated nor embraced. So stop.

How dare you suggest that my 'theology' is based on ignorance. If YOU knew your scriptures you would know that with the exception of Moses, Enoch, and Elijah, NO ONE who has died since Adam are anywhere but in the grave. The graves will be opened at the coming of Jesus and then - and ONLY then - will eternal life be realized for the righteous. THAT is the reason for Christ's return and THAT is what the Bible teaches.

Why not do a little study before you write what you do? The New Testament can be read in a very short time.

Though certainly unwarranted your cockiness knows no bounds, PC_F. You're not only God's mouth-piece for the anti-gay movement but now you're the expert on theology. I take it that you also believe in a literal eternal torment in hell for the 'lost' and that a number of people are already there ...? I've got news for you. Everyone other than those mentioned above are presently in 'hell'. 'Hell' is merely 'the grave'. Do a NT study on this ...as you say, it can be read in a very short time.

 

[QuakerOats]

Ignorance does not need to be tolerated nor embraced. So stop.

I agree, one shouldn't embrace ignorance.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

How dare you suggest that my 'theology' is based on ignorance.

It is my right to declare it. I don't just "suggest" it. You need to relax and understand that being tested is commonplace. I don't trip on the act.

If YOU knew your scriptures you would know that with the exception of Moses, Enoch, and Elijah, NO ONE who has died since Adam are anywhere but in the grave.

Oh really? Moses was buried alive?

And what about these wonderful brothers and sisters AROUND THE THROWN of Jesus?

After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
"Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb."

That's in Cleveland or LA?

Oops, guess its in heaven where the throne of Jesus is.

The graves will be opened at the coming of Jesus and then - and ONLY then - will eternal life be realized for the righteous. THAT is the reason for Christ's return and THAT is what the Bible teaches.

OK. And what about the multitude whose numbers are massive gathered around Jesis in heaven? The scriptures say that these people are from earth.

Though certainly unwarranted your cockiness knows no bounds, PC_F.

It's a persona. It's great fun. Christian life is supposed to be fun too.

Here, I'll look that up for you too:

per·so·na

n. The role that one assumes or displays in public or society; one's public image or personality, as distinguished from the inner self.

Duh.

You're not only God's mouth-piece for the anti-gay movement but now you're the expert on theology.

Am I wrong? Are the scriptures I quote without altering them accurate or not?

I take it that you also believe in a literal eternal torment in hell for the 'lost' and that a number of people are already there ...?

Are you calling Christ Jesus a liar?

He teaches it not me. I just believe Him and believe in Him.

I've got news for you. Everyone other than those mentioned above are presently in 'hell'. 'Hell' is merely 'the grave'. Do a NT study on this ...as you say, it can be read in a very short time.

Jesus shows hell as a rather nasty place. Is He wrong?

Do I need to post scriptures again?




----- People get all huffy when they don't have to huh?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Well, look on the bright side if that should happen. That will be one less person you have to contend with on this forum.

Paul himself said that our righteousness is as filthy rags. That applies to me, to you, and to those who really seem to believe that they have a shiny gold ring circling their heads. If I should be banned for quoting the scriptures to the self-righteous then so be it. I really don't care any more.

Look, the bad and nasty people in this world, are not sitting around arguing with each other on an internate message board debate sight.

Anyone that says that they don't care always do.

 

[KCKID]

Are you calling Christ Jesus a liar?

He teaches it not me. I just believe Him and believe in Him.

Oh, please don't give me the typical - and the oh so unimaginative - rhetoric, "Are you calling Jesus a liar?" simply because you don't know the difference between fact and metaphor. No, Jesus was not lying, PC_F. Jesus' reference to 'hell' (the grave) and Gehenna - the waste dump outside Jerusalem - was yet another example of a metaphor. Jesus spoke in parables and metaphors constantly. Jesus is 'merely' (?) drawing an illustration of the destruction of waste products and dead animals of Gehenna between eternal life and eternal death. One is saved, the other is destroyed. Needless to say, eternal life is by far the most preferable of the two alternatives!

Jesus shows hell as a rather nasty place. Is He wrong?

If Jesus is ACTUALLY describing hell as being a geographical located 'concentration camp' for the 'living dead' then, yes, He is wrong. But that is NOT what Jesus is doing. He's offering an illustration to specific people who - unlike YOU, it would seem - WOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT!

Do I need to post scriptures again?

Why? It's totally unneccesary since I already KNOW what the scriptures say. You're the one who seems to have a problem understanding them. This is why I argue with you about the 'gay' issue until I'm blue in the face. I'm somewhat of an expert in theology. What do you want to know? I mean, seriously?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Oh, please don't give me the typical - and the oh so unimaginative - rhetoric, "Are you calling Jesus a liar?" simply because you don't know the difference between fact and metaphor.

It's appropriate. And, theologically accurate in your case. Truth is reality not slogans.

Boy you sure Readers-digested your reply to my post. No wonder why.

No, Jesus was not lying, PC_F. Jesus' reference to 'hell' (the grave) and Gehenna - the waste dump outside Jerusalem - was yet another example of a metaphor. Jesus spoke in parables and metaphors constantly.

As an insult to the people He thought unworthy to be told the truth to. Right? And the message of salvation? That's just for a better room at the eternal hotel in the sky?

You better come at me with better than Spong theology.

Jesus is 'merely' (?) drawing an illustration of the destruction of waste products and dead animals of Gehenna between eternal life and eternal death. One is saved, the other is destroyed.

Destroyed? Jesus says it never ends. Care a look at His words?

Needless to say, eternal life is by far the most preferable of the two alternatives!

Why? If you're saying that I can look forward to an eternity in the Playboy Mansion, I'm telling you my mind is not going with the Jesus plan. I'll have to reconsider liberal theology I guess. It sounds better than Islam's heavenly scenario by a long shot. Virgin's take time to get good at what men want. If you catch my drift? See I like parables too.

I

f Jesus is ACTUALLY describing hell as being a geographical located 'concentration camp' for the 'living dead' then, yes, He is wrong.

And as you will find out He isn't.

But that is NOT what Jesus is doing. He's offering an illustration to specific people who - unlike YOU, it would seem - WOULD HAVE KNOWN WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT!

No, now wait, I like you idea of heaven and hell a lot better than Jesus'. Both of yours look like a big win lottery ticket!!!! Now I see what draws people into liberal theology. Of course what I've been saying along does.

Why? It's totally unneccesary since I already KNOW what the scriptures say.

Care to post them? And no quoting Crossan either.

You're the one who seems to have a problem understanding them.

Just believing Jesus is a problem?

This is why I argue with you about the 'gay' issue until I'm blue in the face.

You can sit and spin your gay and liberal theology until your balck in the face and you can never support propting gay sex FROM anywhere in the Bible. You need the MCC or Soulforce handbook on that. Both are crap. Like the stuff in Gehenna.

I'm somewhat of an expert in theology.

You really want to go there? My apologia has already smashed your knowledge into the dust from my shoes. But I still love you.

What do you want to know? I mean, seriously?

Show me one place anywhere in scripture that promotes, supports, condones, celebrates or champions gay sex or same-gender marriage for believers? I have a hard time taking any of you people all that seriously. But in your case I'll make an exception.

 

[KCKID]

Show me one place anywhere in scripture that promotes, supports, condones, celebrates or champions gay sex or same-gender marriage for believers? I have a hard time taking any of you people all that seriously. But in your case I'll make an exception.

There is no place in the scriptures that promotes, supports, condones, celebrates, or champions gay sex or same-gender marriages for believers. See? I told you I was an expert on theology! While we're about it though, I can't see anything in the scriptures to support recreational heterosexual sex either. Sex was intended for procreation ...hence the male and female coupling thing. It was intended solely to 'be fruitful'. You see, if recreational sex had been intended by God (sex for pure pleasure) then it wouldn't matter whether the pleasurable experience was being provided by 'whatever' the gender ...now would it? Seriously?

Just think about that for a while while I fix some herbal tea. In fact, mull the common sense statement that I just made over in your mind for as long as it takes for 'reason' to kick in.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

There is no place in the scriptures that promotes, supports, condones, celebrates, or champions gay sex or same-gender marriages for believers. See? I told you I was an expert on theology! While we're about it though, I can't see anything in the scriptures to support recreational heterosexual sex either.

You need to read more.

Sex was intended for procreation ...hence the male and female coupling thing. It was intended solely to 'be fruitful'.

Oh really? You've never been er, uh, well you know, "uncomfortable in a groin-area kind of way?"

Let's see what God has to say about that:

The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."
Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.


The man said,
"This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called 'woman, '
for she was taken out of man."

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
The man and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

Now, KCKID, I don't know about you, BUT being around my woman when we are both naked usually can lead to non-procreative sort of er, um, behavior. I'm thinking God is not an idiot about all of this.

And notice a suitable helper meant a woman. Do the math OK.

You see, if recreational sex had been intended by God (sex for pure pleasure) then it wouldn't matter whether the pleasurable experience was being provided by 'whatever' the gender ...now would it? Seriously?

Eating fruit is very enjoyable and it definately leads to multiplying.

And oh my dear brother here is a bit of Cosmo in the Bible. . .:

Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth—
for your love is more delightful than wine.
Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes;
your name is like perfume poured out.
No wonder the maidens love you!
Take me away with you—let us hurry!
Let the king bring me into his chambers.


Friends: We rejoice and delight in you;
we will praise your love more than wine.-----

Tell me what opening lines of what book that's from?

Just think about that for a while while I fix some herbal tea.

A Bible expert doesn't have to think about scriptural truth for more than a moment if he's a Bible expert.

In fact, mull the common sense statement that I just made over in your mind for as long as it takes for 'reason' to kick in.

It took two-seconds, but only because I was yawning. But I woke up right away after reading what I posted.

My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh
resting between my breasts.

My lover is to me a cluster of henna blossoms
from the vineyards of En Gedi. Lover

How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!
Your eyes are doves.
Beloved

How handsome you are, my lover!
Oh, how charming!
And our bed is verdant.

The lovers are male-female by the way.

This is Biblical erotica after all.

Oh let's continue. And does the following couple seem concerned about a baby?:

Beloved

I am a rose of Sharon,
a lily of the valleys.
Lover

Like a lily among thorns
is my darling among the maidens.
Beloved

Like an apple tree among the trees of the forest
is my lover among the young men.
I delight to sit in his shade,
and his fruit is sweet to my taste.

He has taken me to the banquet hall,
and his banner over me is love. Strengthen me with raisins,
refresh me with apples,
for I am faint with love.
His left arm is under my head,
and his right arm embraces me.

Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you
by the gazelles and by the does of the field:
Do not arouse or awaken love
until it so desires.
Listen! My lover!
Look! Here he comes,
leaping across the mountains,
bounding over the hills.
My lover is like a gazelle or a young stag.
Look! There he stands behind our wall,
gazing through the windows,
peering through the lattice. My lover spoke and said to me,
"Arise, my darling,
my beautiful one, and come with me.

Hey wife? My little sugar dumpling, er I mean, lily among thorns!

Come here baby!


-----God knows what's up!!!! Literally and figuratively.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Once immorality is championed, we are not going to get news from the bad side anymore.

Immorality? What's immorality got to do with same-sex marriage?

I never miss the point of what the lascivious licentiousness represents. My opposition knows that well enough. I never came here to make friends.

A pity. An acid tongue does nothing but burn.

Noah's neighbors and Lot's neighbors are making a comeback.

Says you.

Greece and Rome had same-gender marriage and throughout history the decadent rise to influence only to have the populace drive it back to where it belongs.

You know that it was the ubiquitous 'barbarians at the gates' that toppled the Greek and Roman empires, right? That homosexuality, which had been accepted since both empire's inceptions, had nothing to do with their collapse?

Hell, given the might of both empires, you should be encouraging homosexuality: those that accept their gay brothers and sisters forge mighty alliances!

Hollywood and San Francisco does not play out in moral America.

Only by your standards of morality.

Once children are harvested, decent parents throughout time have risien up against their oppressors and predators, and we are witnessing the beginnings of this once again. The Obama era will be marked with ten-times the disunity that the Bush administration wrought onto society. The Left, which I have accurately described, is emboldened by what they see as a green light to inflict european immorality and secularism onto Americans. They will be shown how wrong their aspirations are once again. America is not europe and never will be.

The amount of weasel words, exaggerated biases, and unbridled self-pitying is laughable. Come back when you have something tangible, instead of wailing about the forthcoming doom.

 

[Bobfr]

Now, KCKID, I don't know about you, BUT being around my woman when we are both naked usually can lead to non-procreative sort of er, um, behavior. I'm thinking God is not an idiot about all of this.

And notice a suitable helper meant a woman. Do the math OK.

You've got a problem if you think that being nude leads to sex.

To justify your views, I would have quoted some passage where known unfertile couple where still having sex.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

Immorality? What's immorality got to do with same-sex marriage?

Still clouded by gay lenses huh?

A pity. An acid tongue does nothing but burn.

It always boils down to having to support and encourage gay sex and no matter how nice I say that is repugnant and impossible, we'll part company sooner or later. I choose not be joined in the first place. I'm following good Christian advice from some very influential Christians.

You know that it was the ubiquitous 'barbarians at the gates' that toppled the Greek and Roman empires, right? That homosexuality, which had been accepted since both empire's inceptions, had nothing to do with their collapse?

Not according to the commanders of armies past and present. Look up Xenophon. But hey, maybe getting all the gays in the army isn't such a bad idea. But Xenophon didn't think it was when the institution was commonplace.

Hell, given the might of both empires, you should be encouraging homosexuality: those that accept their gay brothers and sisters forge mighty alliances!

They both died and were broken into pieces. Of course this is what I predict for the United States of America.

[quoteOnly by your standards of morality.[/quote]

Which is supported by the writers of the New Testament, including the Red Letters. I'm cool with that.

The amount of weasel words, exaggerated biases, and unbridled self-pitying is laughable. Come back when you have something tangible, instead of wailing about the forthcoming doom.

I'm sure Greeks and Romans spoke like that.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

You've got a problem if you think that being nude leads to sex.

I note with interest that you think it doesn't. Surrrrre you do.

To justify your views, I would have quoted some passage where known unfertile couple where still having sex.

To justify my views I stick with reality. Sexual intercourse is sexual orientation pointing towards procreation. You are familiar with sceince are you not?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Still clouded by gay lenses huh?

You're still in my sig for a reason .

But seriously, I see no reason why same-sex marriage should be considered immoral. What possible detriment could it cause?

Not according to the commanders of armies past and present. Look up Xenophon. But hey, maybe getting all the gays in the army isn't such a bad idea. But Xenophon didn't think it was when the institution was commonplace.

Xenophon: a Greek solider who lived during the 5[sup]th[/sup] and 4[sup]th[/sup] centuries BCE. A soldier who was, incidentally, homosexual.

What does that have to do with the fall of the Roman and Greek empires?

They both died and were broken into pieces.

Indeed. But you have yet to show any reason why their acceptance of homosexuality lead to their downfall.

Which is supported by the writers of the New Testament, including the Red Letters. I'm cool with that.

Nice to see modern Christians twisting Koine Greek to back their personal beliefs. Is it any wonder Christianity is so divided?

I'm sure Greeks and Romans spoke like that.

They didn't have to put up with your obfuscating sophistry.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

There is no place in the scriptures that promotes, supports, condones, celebrates, or champions gay sex or same-gender marriages for believers. See? I told you I was an expert on theology! While we're about it though, I can't see anything in the scriptures to support recreational heterosexual sex either. Sex was intended for procreation ...hence the male and female coupling thing. It was intended solely to 'be fruitful'. You see, if recreational sex had been intended by God (sex for pure pleasure) then it wouldn't matter whether the pleasurable experience was being provided by 'whatever' the gender ...now would it? Seriously?

Just think about that for a while while I fix some herbal tea. In fact, mull the common sense statement that I just made over in your mind for as long as it takes for 'reason' to kick in.

If sex is not meant to be pleasurable then why is the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] external and not stimulated during intercourse and easiest stimulated during oral sex or why are there pressure points in the anus that increase the climax?

 

[Polycarp_fan]

You're still in my sig for a reason

Where's my copyright check?

But seriously, I see no reason why same-sex marriage should be considered immoral. What possible detriment could it cause?

The promotion of all sorts of nasty things.

Xenophon: a Greek solider who lived during the 5[sup]th[/sup] and 4[sup]th[/sup] centuries BCE. A soldier who was, incidentally, homosexual.

"Homosexuality was rife in ancient armies . . . Xenophon was strongly opposed to it and argued that it would only corrupt troops rather than raise their morale."

http://books.google.com/books?id=ro...=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPA39,M1

What does that have to do with the fall of the Roman and Greek empires?

Immorality is a social carcinogen.

Indeed. But you have yet to show any reason why their acceptance of homosexuality lead to their downfall.

One just has to view schools of today for the answer.

Nice to see modern Christians twisting Koine Greek to back their personal beliefs. Is it any wonder Christianity is so divided?

Schism is a healthy thing when eliminating liars and false prophets from the mix.

They didn't have to put up with your obfuscating sophistry.

Yet my offerings are reality.

 

[Polycarp_fan]

KCKID,

Post #91 awaits.

 

[FaithLikeARock]

The basic argument is:

"Well I know all those bad things are happening, but see, everyone KNOWS they're bad so it's okay to just ignore them!"