Gays in the army

[Rocky1960]

I say unless you're in the military, then it shouldn't matter. If it's not something that YOU personally have to deal with day in and day out, then it should be up to the troops. I further exclude this to currently deployed/fighting/active people.

I agree, with the emphasis on combat troops.

 

[sphsjags]

Thanks for the agreement. I mean no disrespect to these people, but if you're one of the ones working in an office somewhere and not fighting next to, sleeping with, showering with, etc., a homosexual, then why does your opinion matter? Even if you were once in active duty but no longer are, then your view still shouldn't matter that much. Times and opinions are constantly evolving. The active and combat people are younger and younger, and the younger generations don't care about something so silly as much as the older guys do.

I'm joining the Army when I graduate college with a Metallurgical Engineering degree, and I personally don't care if gays are showering with me, sleeping with me, fighting alongside me. I would be proud to have a fellow soldier with me who was gay. We're both defending our country.

 

[supersoldier71]

The SecDef and POTUS forced this one on us. They made the decision without regard to the guys who actually go in harm's way. I find it interesting that someone who has never been where I am or done what I do can comment on how they would feel in they had.

 

[keith99]

I say unless you're in the military, then it shouldn't matter. If it's not something that YOU personally have to deal with day in and day out, then it should be up to the troops. I further exclude this to currently deployed/fighting/active people.

The really high up people that are old, have positions and just look cool (Chiefs of Staff, etc), since they won't be around much longer, leave it to the people who WILL have to deal with it.

It's kind of like being a senior in high school and voting on what to change the mascot to NEXT year, when you will be gone. You don't have to deal with it or it won't be affecting you very long, if at all.

So you think the grunts should make the rules?

Best stay out of the military.

 

[supersoldier71]

So you think the grunts should make the rules?

Best stay out of the military.

Too late for that. But in a little while, I won't care, as long as the retirement money shows up on the 1st and 15th.

As for the repeal of DADT: the repeal was an awful idea, a social engineering construct designed by people who have no interest or desire in fighting and winning wars, nor once committed to those wars, constructing a cohesive force capable of conducting sustained combat operations in an expeditionary environment.

The only upside I can see is that some more "specialized" units can deny entrance because they don't like the cut of your mustache. They'll still be allowed the latitude required to assess and select.

 

[keith99]

Too late for that. But in a little while, I won't care, as long as the retirement money shows up on the 1st and 15th.

As for the repeal of DADT: the repeal was an awful idea, a social engineering construct designed by people who have no interest or desire in fighting and winning wars, nor once committed to those wars, constructing a cohesive force capable of conducting sustained combat operations in an expeditionary environment.

The only upside I can see is that some more "specialized" units can deny entrance because they don't like the cut of your mustache. They'll still be allowed the latitude required to assess and select.

Don't ask Don't tell bordered on insane.

IF there should be any restriction on gays in the military it should be out of the closet only. AS DADT stood a person in the military stood to lose their career if they got outed. That is a significant security issue.

 

[supersoldier71]

Don't ask Don't tell bordered on insane.

IF there should be any restriction on gays in the military it should be out of the closet only. AS DADT stood a person in the military stood to lose their career if they got outed. That is a significant security issue.

Insane is social engineering while we've got two wars going on, a ridiculous OPTEMPO and a force of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines who have basically spent half of the last ten years in combat zones.

Good timing!

All in support of an elitist liberal domestic agenda.

 

[laconicstudent]

Insane is social engineering while we've got two wars going on, a ridiculous OPTEMPO and a force of Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines who have basically spent half of the last ten years in combat zones.

Good timing!

All in support of an elitist liberal domestic agenda.

If those Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines can handle combat, but they can't handle such a juvenile trial as having to interact with homosexuals, there is a much deeper problem then an "elitist liberal domestic agenda".

Nothing personal, but this nation isn't going to enshrine your political mores simply because you are in the military, to the detriment of the people.

 

[Torah]

Because we have already had homosexuals living in those barracks, the only difference is those servicemembers will be able to be open and honest about their sexuality. They have been living, showing, eating etc alongside everyone else for decades.

I think a lot of people put forth these kinds of arguments but they really are falacious. Do we segreate gays and straights anywhere else in society? I sometimes go to a fitness center close to my apartment and there are showers and bathrooms for men and women but none for gay men or lesbians even though there are good number of gays who work out there.

I am very glad this policy will soon be history.

Again! Why not have Men and Woman in the same barracks? And Shower together. The reason is because of sexuality, woman don’t want men looking at them in the shower. Now you have homosexuals who are open about there sexual preferences in the same shower as men who do not share there sexual preferences, and not wanting homosexuals looking at them in the way a man looks at a woman. As a society maybe we need to conceder separate showers and bathrooms. Or maybe we need to as a society take down the walls and allow woman, men, and homosexuals all shower and bunk together. If men and woman were to bunk together and after the lights went out what would go on?

 

[supersoldier71]

If those Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines can handle combat, but they can't handle such a juvenile trial as having to interact with homosexuals, there is a much deeper problem then an "elitist liberal domestic agenda".

Nothing personal, but this nation isn't going to enshrine your political mores simply because you are in the military, to the detriment of the people.

Fighting is easy! Getting people to fight is hard. Bringing them home in one piece afterwards harder still. Obviously not hard enough for the POTUS and SECDEF though, who never have to deal with the parents of those you don't bring home.

Detriment of whom? the 15000 or so discharged under DADT or the 3,000,000 or so currently serving, most of whom disapprove of the repeal.

The Navy and the Air Force should allow gays openly. In a number of ways, especially the USAF, they're more an "agency" than a military branch anyway.

 

[Gishin]

Not cool man.

 

[laconicstudent]

Fighting is easy! Getting people to fight is hard. Bringing them home in one piece afterwards harder still. Obviously not hard enough for the POTUS and SECDEF though, who never have to deal with the parents of those you don't bring home.

It would be even easier if we ignored legality in war. Fortunately ends don't justify the means.

Detriment of whom? the 15000 or so discharged under DADT or the 3,000,000 or so currently serving, most of whom disapprove of the repeal.

I'm referring to the 7% of women and 8% of men in the United States. Fortunately, their disapproval isn't the deciding factor.

The Navy and the Air Force should allow gays openly. In a number of ways, especially the USAF, they're more an "agency" than a military branch anyway.

Oh I imagine they will, along with the Army, Marines and Coast Guard.

 

[tootall68]

I'm in the army and have been on two deployments. With the living situations over there I think it would be extremely uncomfortable to have an openly gay guy with us. In opinion if they are going to have gays in the army the best thing they could do is keep them separated from everyone else. If you mix them together with the soldiers, the soldiers will always be watching them and the gays self asteam will get so low from all the crap he will have to take he will be useless. I think we would all be better off if this country took a step back and got back to those Christian values that this country was built on.

 

[Awesome_Frog]

I'm in the army and have been on two deployments.

Good job, now you do understand you are employed by our government to protect everyone's freedom right? Not just the freedom of the citizens you want right?

With the living situations over there I think it would be extremely uncomfortable to have an openly gay guy with us.

Why? What exactly would it change? A guy or gal who likes the same gender living with other people of the same and oposite gender dosen't really matter. Just like how men can have girl friends and coworkers and not have any problems.

In opinion if they are going to have gays in the army the best thing they could do is keep them separated from everyone else.

Nope, we as citizens pay you guys to do your jobs, and quite frankly, it makes no sense to spend more money to make sure a few soldiers are made to feel special. This is aimed at you, not gay soldiers.

If you mix them together with the soldiers, the soldiers will always be watching them and the gays self asteam will get so low from all the crap he will have to take he will be useless.

This is the exact same argument used against women and blacks. Both times, this was proven false. Also don't speak for other people.

I think we would all be better off if this country took a step back and got back to those Christian values that this country was built on.

I prefer moving forward and not dwelling on the past. we learn from our mistakes, and this call back is nothing more then nostalgia of a time that never existed. The reason why the US was not started as a theocracy was because the forefathers had the foresight to not trust "values" but instead the people and new information.

 

[Jay217]

So we should ignore the very soldiers who are currently fighting because their viewpoints are unfair and nobody should act like that.

News flash you can't just tell people to suck it up and accept it.

Interesting how you mentioned there are no problems with blacks or women in the military.

Until the last few decades blacks were often segregated from the main unit in basic camps and were treated like dirt. So don't see how there were no problems.

Women in the military are from non-issue. Women have lower requirements and many expect to do less hard laborous work as of now, that is far from even and equal. As for an example, one of the 'Golden Girls' (TV) was a former marine, however she got raped and infected...

Do i think that women and blacks should serve? Yes i think they should, as i've said coloured minorities are being more streamlined now, and as for women i believe we should equate them with men. As for gays they need to learn to equate with everyone as well and i don't see why anyone has to embrace another person's gayness.

 

[Awesome_Frog]

So we should ignore the very soldiers who are currently fighting because their viewpoints are unfair and nobody should act like that.

I acknowleded the guy's claim, and disputed it. That's far from ignoring his stance. He can hold it, and I can disagree with it.

News flash you can't just tell people to suck it up and accept it.

Actually the US Military can, since its a voluntary program/ contract.

Interesting how you mentioned there are no problems with blacks or women in the military.

I don't think I made this claim.

Until the last few decades blacks were often segregated from the main unit in basic camps and were treated like dirt. So don't see how there were no problems.

Can you source the US military doing this. It would be nice to read up on it and figure out how I stand on it. Please and thank you.

Women in the military are from non-issue. Women have lower requirements and many expect to do less hard laborous work as of now, that is far from even and equal. As for an example, one of the 'Golden Girls' (TV) was a former marine, however she got raped and infected...

I'm not sure where you where going with this rant.

Do i think that women and blacks should serve? Yes i think they should, as i've said coloured minorities are being more streamlined now, and as for women i believe we should equate them with men.

That's cool.

As for gays they need to learn to equate with everyone as well

Can you ellaborate on what you mean by learning to equate. I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing that normal boys my age do that is so weird. I only find men more attractive then women. What exactly do I need to equate?

and i don't see why anyone has to embrace another person's gayness.

I really don't care if someone embraces me. I just want the same opportunities and the ability to defend my country when needed, without having special penalties forced on me because someone is uncomfortable about possibly finding out I have a boy friend back home or that I went to a gay bar on leave.

 

[laconicstudent]

I'm in the army and have been on two deployments. With the living situations over there I think it would be extremely uncomfortable to have an openly gay guy with us.

You know, back in the day when I talked to recruiters, they didn't mention that it was a social club. And I think you should be uncomfortable enough in a foreign country being shot at.

In opinion if they are going to have gays in the army the best thing they could do is keep them separated from everyone else.

Why?

If you mix them together with the soldiers, the soldiers will always be watching them and the gays self asteam will get so low from all the crap he will have to take he will be useless.

Strange, right wingers have been telling us its supposed to be the other way around.

We were also supposed to have a massive surge of gay rape according to one poster. Strangely, it hasn't happened.

I think we would all be better off if this country took a step back and got back to those Christian values that this country was built on.

Our country wasn't built on Christian values. Read the First Amendment.

 

[tootall68]

Wasn't built o Christian values your crazy."our constitution was designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." John Adams. You have your opinion and I have mine. Just from my experience if your gay and you want to be a soldier the best thing you can do for yourself is keep it a secret. Since all of this has came about if an army chaplain don't condone it they are letting him leave the service. So let me get this straight, if a man of God doesn't condone sin he loses his military career. I used to love the army and my country. I've lost blood and spilt blood for it, but its politicaly correct liberal bull crap like this that has made me leave the army. You may say I'm shallow or whatever I don't really care that's just the way I see it.

 

[Awesome_Frog]

Wasn't built o Christian values your crazy."our constitution was designed only for a moral and religious people.

nah, I've read it. Its actually pretty cut and dray and secular.

It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other." John Adams.

I can quote mine as well, but it will get us no where.

You have your opinion and I have mine.

Yep, and we live in a country where we can challenge each other's opinions.

Just from my experience if your gay and you want to be a soldier the best thing you can do for yourself is keep it a secret.

Nah, you are just projecting what you want and what you think is best for you.

Since all of this has came about if an army chaplain don't condone it they are letting him leave the service. So let me get this straight, if a man of God doesn't condone sin he loses his military career.

Sorry, unless you show me the protocol or an article where a chaplin was thrown out, you have no case. Also, I think you just said the guy or gal has the right to choose.

I used to love the army and my country. I've lost blood and spilt blood for it,

Cool

but its politicaly correct liberal bull crap like this that has made me leave the army.

You mean actually having to protect other people's freedoms and being asked to respect others freedoms has caused you to want to leave?

You may say I'm shallow or whatever I don't really care that's just the way I see it.

Nah, I just call you a child. You are just mad that you aren't privileged anymore and blaming My community because its easier then getting along.

Just like child throwing temper tantrum.

 

[ahiggs]

ok i haven't read all the posts here, but this is my 2 cents...
i was in the navy, and being on a ship can be a pretty intimate place to be. and by intimate i mean there is very little privacy!! so unless they are going to offer seperate quarters for homosexuals, then they shouldn't be there, any more than they should have coed quarters.