Gap Theory?

[Breetai]

I just had a thought. If the Earth was formless and desolate right before the creation of 6000 years ago, then there would be no evidence of life on earth before that.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I just had a thought. If the Earth was formless and desolate right before the creation of 6000 years ago, then there would be no evidence of life on earth before that.

Why would you say that? If earth had a history of life before the earth became "without form and void", why do we have to assume that all the evidence of this life would vanish because of the "without form and void"? Always remember, the gap theory doesn't say the word of God tells us what caused what happend in Gen. 1:2 but only says that there is a pause between the first two verses in Genesis. Although it has been suggested that Peter in 2 Peter 3:4-7 may shead light on this first judgment. I have not been able to make my mind up on this though.

If we use genez anology about the model T does his anology attempt to discribe how the car became all rusted out and sitting on cinder blocks? Well that's just like Genesis 1:2, the word of God doesn't discribe how the earth became "without form and void".

 

[Breetai]

I'm thinking...

 

[RVincent]

The curse was real. In what way do see it as metaphorical?

Hello geneZ.

I'm not going to speak for lucaspa(?). But I thought I would "butt in" and give you my opinion.

I know that you and nephilimyr have no problem with angels procreating with the daughters of Adam in Gen. 6. So this shouldn't be a stretch for you.

1. Serpent. Nachash, "shining one", who is "the devil and Satan" (Rev. 12:9, 20:2).

2. The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. By some queer coincidence, we have a tree mentioned in Ezekiel 31:3-12, described to Pharaoh of Egypt. In most translations, this tree is called the Assyrian.

But Dr. Ginsburg believes this should be translated TeAshshur (=box tree).

This tree:

a.Was very prosperous (cp. v. 3-9 with 28:16).​

b.Was very beautiful (cp. v. 8 with 28:12, 17)​

c.Was in the Garden of Eden. vv. 8-9. Ref. to Pent. Gen. 2.​

Who do we know is prideful, beautiful, was in Eden, and will be cast off like a branch (Ezek. 31:12, Isa. 14:19)?

IMO, Satan was also the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

3. The sin, like in Gen. 6, resulted in a wicked seed, i.e. Cain.

4. The curse upon the Satan, metaphorical, "dust shalt thou eat", degredation.

 

[GenemZ]

If a hardcore creationist comes here, they're gonna go crazy.

They will not "go."... But, they may discover where they already are. Hopefully, this is not to be a battle to see who can maintain their illusion. Truth annihiliates all illusion.


2 Corinthians 10:4
"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds." (niv®)

Illusionary teachings are a stronghold over a believer who accepts them as truth. Then, pride kicks in to prove that they are superior to others by being clever in defending their illusion. In that, they sense God's approval. Illusionary teaching is a "preferred" truth, not a real truth.

Let them come here and get mad. But, hopefully, let them see genuine refutation so they can change their thinking (repent). They are caught in a stronghold over this issue. I believe it stems from powerful form of sentimental traditionalism. Satan is here to divide the church. Demons act as pseudo guidance of the Holy Spirit, keeping one side (secularists) fighting against religious traditionalists... both never coming to an understanding of the truth. Its flesh challanging flesh. May the better flesh win! (and, God is pleased with the winner?)

Jesus said that the Truth will make you free. Truth found, and lived in the power of Grace... is Liberty to the soul. God desires that we all grow and mature in Christ. The only one stopping a believer from receiving the truth is the believer himself, his pride. He refuses to take the humiliation that is required to suffer and wait upon the Lord for an answer. It can sometimes take years of perseverance before the light is given. During that time of waiting, God is doing a work with both men and angels.

Jesus warned that the way to destroy one's spiritual life is "broad and wide." The way to grow in it, is strict and under pressure. But, it leads to finding life (capacity for joy and happiness). That is why it is required of all of us a taking up one's cross and the denial of one's self preferences...That is, if we are to follow after Christ. He is the Word (John 1:1). That is how we are made able to follow...by receiving truth from the Word and becoming transformed in our thinking.

Our final evaluation before the Lord will be based upon what truth we received and lived in. Not, by how we strongly (and cleverly) defended our stand concerning what we preferred to believe blindly (and, calling that strong faith).

This is the dilemma of spiritual warfare.

Often times, those who appear to be losing by the majority, will be often times the winner. Yet, hopefully, there may be a revival in that given generation where truth is widely accepted, and that generation, by grace, becomes "salt of the earth" - a stabilizing spiritual force for their nation God placed them in. That is our only hope. A true revival, one of understanding and truth. Not, one of many getting worked up emotionally and walking the aisle to come forward.

I do hope some do come here and get mad. Mad at how foolish they have been and for the time they have already wasted in the opportunity they have been granted to have Christ glorified.
Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[sawdust]

They will not "go."... But, they may discover where they already are. Hopefully, this is not to be a battle to see who can maintain their illusion. Truth annihiliates all illusion.


2 Corinthians 10:4
"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds." (niv®)

Illusionary teachings are a stronghold over a believer who accepts them as truth. Then, pride kicks in to prove that they are superior to others by being clever in defending their illusion. In that, they sense God's approval. Illusionary teaching is a "preferred" truth, not a real truth.

Let them come here and get mad. But, hopefully, let them see genuine refutation so they can change their thinking (repent). They are caught in a stronghold over this issue. I believe it stems from powerful form of sentimental traditionalism. Satan is here to divide the church. Demons act as pseudo guidance of the Holy Spirit, keeping one side (secularists) fighting against religious traditionalists... both never coming to an understanding of the truth. Its flesh challanging flesh. May the better flesh win! (and, God is pleased with the winner?)

Jesus said that the Truth will make you free. Truth found, and lived in the power of Grace... is Liberty to the soul. God desires that we all grow and mature in Christ. The only one stopping a believer from receiving the truth is the believer himself, his pride. He refuses to take the humiliation that is required to suffer and wait upon the Lord for an answer. It can sometimes take years of perseverance before the light is given. During that time of waiting, God is doing a work with both men and angels.

Jesus warned that the way to destroy one's spiritual life is "broad and wide." The way to grow in it, is strict and under pressure. But, it leads to finding life (capacity for joy and happiness). That is why it is required of all of us a taking up one's cross and the denial of one's self preferences...That is, if we are to follow after Christ. He is the Word (John 1:1). That is how we are made able to follow...by receiving truth from the Word and becoming transformed in our thinking.

Our final evaluation before the Lord will be based upon what truth we received and lived in. Not, by how we strongly (and cleverly) defended our stand concerning what we preferred to believe blindly (and, calling that strong faith).

This is the dilemma of spiritual warfare.

Often times, those who appear to be losing by the majority, will be often times the winner. Yet, hopefully, there may be a revival in that given generation where truth is widely accepted, and that generation, by grace, becomes "salt of the earth" - a stabilizing spiritual force for their nation God placed them in. That is our only hope. A true revival, one of understanding and truth. Not, one of many getting worked up emotionally and walking the aisle to come forward.

I do hope some do come here and get mad. Mad at how foolish they have been and for the time they have already wasted in the opportunity they have been granted to have Christ glorified.
Grace and peace, GeneZ

Amen, Amen, Amen.

Go GeneZ. Wahoo!

 

[GenemZ]

Amen, Amen, Amen.

Go GeneZ. Wahoo!

Sawdust... who ever you are...
Thanks for making me chuckle!

<G>eneZ

 

[GenemZ]

IMO, Satan was also the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

If Satan was to be seen as this tree, then who else caused the serpent to speak such lies? The serpent spoke of the tree as being a separate entity from itself.

And, if Satan was to be seen as this tree? Why does it say God gave many trees to bear fruit to be food for man? Genesis 3, mentions that there were many other trees of which they could eat. Does that mean Adam and the woman ate from angels, not real trees?

You asked. I thought it over. That's my answer.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Breetai]

I'm still thinking...

 

[sawdust]

Sawdust... who ever you are...
Thanks for making me chuckle!

<G>eneZ

You are most welcome genez and I'm hoping to make you chuckle a lot more because you have no idea how grateful I am to people like yourself and Nephilimiyr for bringing all this teaching up.

If the Lord doesn't bless you mightily for it, I shall be having a serious talk with Him on the subject.

(Course I might have to dodge His "lightning bolts" if I get too cheeky with Him. )

"Yes, Jesus loves me. Yes, Jesus loves me....."

Someone pinch me quick. .... I think I'm in heaven!

LOL

 

[sawdust]

I read somewhere else just recently about "Satan being the tree of knowledge of good and evil."
I don't understand what the two trees are, or even if they are real trees or metaphorical trees, but my heart says it is definately not Satan.
It seems to me, if they are to be taken metaphorically, then they are more liable to be of God. Maybe they represent "God in the midst of".

I guess I'm looking at this from a believers perspective as one who has the life of Christ within them. I see a similarity inasmuch that Christ within, is life and the fullness of life, but knowing the answers to life, knowing right from wrong etc is still a matter of being dependent on Him. "I will lead you, I will counsel you with my eye upon you".

Does that make any sense?

 

[Breetai]

Someone pinch me quick. .... I think I'm in heaven!

*pinch*

You're right about the tree thing, it is not Satan. I don't even know where that person got that idea from.

 

[nephilimiyr]

I know that you and nephilimyr have no problem with angels procreating with the daughters of Adam in Gen. 6. So this shouldn't be a stretch for you.

1. Serpent. Nachash, "shining one", who is "the devil and Satan" (Rev. 12:9, 20:2).

Hi RVincent!

I don't know how much of this thread you've read but I thought I had an understanding of this myself. I was convincingly showed that my understanding of the meaning of "Nachash" to be "shinning one" was flawed. I would be very interested in seeing how you would explain how the meaning of nachash is "shinning one".

But Dr. Ginsburg believes this should be translated TeAshshur (=box tree).

I believe the true way to find our definitions for the ancient Hebrew is to learn the rules of proper grammer within the language. Then, as the most excepted form of definition, checking out the definition with other places in the bible that the word or phrase is used. Studying how it is used both in the grammer and in context within the stories being told.

If you read where I tried to explain my belief in how "nachash" should be translated you'll see that by useing the grammer principal the test failed.

Now as for what your saying about TeAshshur I really must say I don't understand the connextions you and or Dr. Ginsburg are trying to make. It doesn't seem he even trys to explain his belief in the grammer. I did a word search on "Assyrian" as that is the tree mentioned in Eze. 31:3. Strongs put's the Hebrew word as 'Ashshuwr So for instance were does Dr Ginsburg get the Te? What's that supposed to mean? Also the meaning of the word is said to be "a step" as well as the land, the people, the son of Assyria. What does any of this have to do with the tree of good and evil?

 

[RVincent]

Hello nephilimyr.

My understanding of Nachash is taken from App. 19 of the Companion Bible (there are also appendixes on the fallen angels and the Nephilim). Here is an exerpt:

"The Hebrew word rendered "serpent" in Genesis 3:1 is Nachash (from the root Nachash, to shine), and means a shinning one. Hence, in Chaldee it means brass or copper, because of its shining. Hence also, the word Nehushtan, a piece of brass, in 2Kings 18:4."

Dr. Ginsburg was a translator of the Massorah, and in the Companion Bible, Dr. Bullinger quotes Ginsburg as saying that the word sould be TeAsshur = box cedar.

So really, I am quoting certain scholars, I do not know the languages myself, or have access to the older MSS. It may be that Ginsburg had access to something we don't.

Also, even if it is Assyrian, we know from Isa. 14 that the King of Babylon and the Assyrian are types for Satan's role as anitchrist. So prophetically, it can still apply.

The interpretation of this tree as being Satan is completely "my own" (i'm sure there are others).

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hello nephilimyr.

My understanding of Nachash is taken from App. 19 of the Companion Bible (there are also appendixes on the fallen angels and the Nephilim). Here is an exerpt:

"The Hebrew word rendered "serpent" in Genesis 3:1 is Nachash (from the root Nachash, to shine), and means a shinning one. Hence, in Chaldee it means brass or copper, because of its shining. Hence also, the word Nehushtan, a piece of brass, in 2Kings 18:4."

Dr. Ginsburg was a translator of the Massorah, and in the Companion Bible, Dr. Bullinger quotes Ginsburg as saying that the word sould be TeAsshur = box cedar.

So really, I am quoting certain scholars, I do not know the languages myself, or have access to the older MSS. It may be that Ginsburg had access to something we don't.

Also, even if it is Assyrian, we know from Isa. 14 that the King of Babylon and the Assyrian are types for Satan's role as anitchrist. So prophetically, it can still apply.

The interpretation of this tree as being Satan is completely "my own" (i'm sure there are others).

Ok, I'm understanding you now. I will have to do some further research on this and will get back to you!

 

[sawdust]

*pinch*

You're right about the tree thing, it is not Satan. I don't even know where that person got that idea from.

"Ouch" (pout)

Think I'll just say nudge me next time.

...... and thanks!

LOL

 

[RVincent]

Probably from reading Ezekiel 31, and the other Scriptures. Quite a novel concept.

But follow your unctions. I like Breetai, he laughs at my humor, and is in possesion of the only supply of refrigerator magents in the universe.

 

[sawdust]

Probably from reading Ezekiel 31, and the other Scriptures. Quite a novel concept.

But follow your unctions. I like Breetai, he laughs at my humor, and is in possesion of the only supply of refrigerator magents in the universe.

So that's where my magnets go!

BREETAI!!! You're in trouble son.
Do you know what I do with disobedient chidren? I throw my arms around them and give 'em the biggest hug! Then I kiss them all over their faces and to make it really bad, I do it all in public.
That way they know to never disobey me again!



Hi RV,
Can I call you that? I'm an Aussie, so we have to shorten everything.

I like "novel" ideas but I disagree with you about the tree being Satan. However I shall contine to read and let me say, I appreciate your input.

take care

 

[Breetai]

Breetai...is in possesion of the only supply of refrigerator magents in the universe.

I need them, they hold the secret to the protoculture that the Micronians possess.

 

[RVincent]

Yes, you may call me RV!

Ah, so refrigerator magnets are the secret that Zor took to his grave!