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Galaxy rotation patterns are better explained by Birkeland currents than by dark matter.

Smithi

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So, it looks like Falthammar was right in 2010;

The value of this (magnetic reconnection*) for understanding solar flares and other kinds of energy release in cosmic plasmas can hardly be exaggerated.

* Added by me to show context.

The Earth’s Magnetosphere as a Key to the Plasma Universe
Falthammar, C-G.
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:484042/FULLTEXT01.pdf

Imaging Observations of Magnetic Reconnection in a Solar Eruptive Flare
Li, Y. et al.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/80685476.pdf

In particular, the observations reveal solid evidence of magnetic reconnection from both the corona and chromosphere during the flare. Moreover, weak reconnection is observed before the start of the flare. We find that the preflare weak reconnection is of tether-cutting type and helps the MFR to rise slowly. Induced by a further rise of the MFR, strong reconnection occurs in the rise phases of the flare, which is temporally related to the MFR eruption. We also find that the magnetic reconnection is more of 3D-type in the early phase, as manifested in a strong-to-weak shear transition in flare loops, and becomes more 2D-like in the later phase, as shown by the apparent rising motion of an arcade of flare loops.
 
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Michael

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Equating the idiot Scott with Einstein is laughable.

Your incessant need for ad homs is only surpassed the flawed nature of your argument.

Birkeland didn't have a model.

How would you know that if you have never bothered to read his work?


No you haven't. And you seem to lack the necessaries to put his garbage to the test on an independent forum.

I've posted it to other forums. I haven't had any trouble defending it yet, including here.

Rubbish. A bunch of unqualified Velikovskians counts for zero.

Velikovski isn't mentioned in Scott's book or papers, and I have no idea why you would associate Alfven or me with Velkiovski.

And I couldn't give a fig about about your belief system. MRx is a proven fact. Nobody is claiming otherwise. If you believe otherwise, link to the papers.

Like I said, when you produce a working model of an aurora and corona, let me know.

Juergens was another clueless EE. He never published his risible model.

Everyone you disagree with is labeled "clueless" or an 'idiot' or loopy. Your argument is so weak you're forced to argue with ad-homs.

Alfven's cosmology model is trivially wrong.

Maybe, but it's a lot more right than anything related to the LCDM model.

Thornhill is clueless. He believes Earth used to orbit Saturn! He is a Velikovskian loon.

More personal attacks. Yawn.

Scott hasn't got a clue, and his 'model' is pathetic, and erroneous.

Except the so called alleged "errors" brought up in this thread ended up being errors of his detractors.

Hence why it sits ignored in a predatory journal. The fact that you think it has merit is an irrelevance, as you have little knowledge nor expertise in the relevant science.

Well, I knew enough to pick out at least one math and one physics error by his detractors.

And counter-rotations have been studied, and appear to be of material of different ages. Nothing to do with the impossible woo that Scott has dreamed up.

Actually Marklund convection is another key prediction of a Birkeland current model. It's not so much related to "age" in Scott's model as much as it's related to elemental separation by ionization state in different parts of the current.

Nope. Both models fail by observation.

Nope. Birkland's model passed every test. I've never personally been interested in an anode model.

And MRx is observed in solar flares;

Imaging Observations of Magnetic Reconnection in a Solar Eruptive Flare
Li, Y. et al.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/80685476.pdf

Ergo, your objections are worthless.

The only thing that demonstrates (maybe) is that some magnetic field energy is transferred into particle kinetic energy. You've still provided no lab tests to methodically differentiate between ordinary induction in plasma and some unique process known as "magnetic reconnection". I'm still waiting to see it.

Lol. Don't you get bored of posting the same rubbish?

I only get bored when the reader refuses to read anything for themselves and expects me to explain it to them. Why should I care what you think of Birkeland's work if you've never bothered to even read it?

Couldn't care less. None of the models are relevant to our current knowledge.

Except the mainstream doesn't have "knowledge" that actually works in the lab and produces the necessary observations.
 
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... I doubt that real science and observation will convince Michael, when he has the genius Scott to call on!
Putting aside Michael's inability to see through Scott's logically flawed math substitution errors, (which then violates basic algebra process integrity), Scott himself, is ultimately responsible for Michael's (and others') confusion.

To my knowledge, Scott has never faced up publically to these fundamental errors and yet he apparently continues to propagate more papers based on them.

I find this completely shameful on his part. Its one thing to appear as being a bit of a clown due a blooper (we all do that to some extent, I guess) but its something else again to continue avoiding the issue and then exacerbate it, by publishing papers in shonky journals out of the attempt to somehow legitimise fundamental errors.
I mean Bridgman's unanswered challenges were presented to Scott years ago .. so he had much cause to rethink his conceptualisations before he wrote the Birkeland current paper?
 
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Michael

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So, it looks like Falthammar was right in 2010;



* Added by me to show context.

The Earth’s Magnetosphere as a Key to the Plasma Universe
Falthammar, C-G.
http://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:484042/FULLTEXT01.pdf

This situation causes a complex exchange of mass, momentum and energy between the regions. A key role in this exchange is played by electric currents that connect the ionosphere with the outer magnetosphere and ultimately the solar wind.

But of all lessons from the aurora, the most fundamental is that – contrary to previously firm beliefs – electric potential fields can and do exist in collisionless space plasma. The most dramatic demonstration of a magnetic-field aligned electric field was achieved with a rocket experiment, where a cloud of Barium ions was ejected upwards on an auroral magnetic field line (Haerendel et al, 1976). At an altitude of about 10 000 km the velocity of the ions suddenly jumped from 10 km/s to 102 km/s as they fell through a potential drop of 7.3 kV.

Electric fields in space? Who would have guessed? Oh ya, everyone.

Like I said, the one thing you'll never provide is a working model of a sustained planetary aurora and a corona in a lab based on "magnetic reconnection".

I'm still waiting for the careful laboratory study that demonstrated the difference between ordinary induction and magnetic reconnection.
 
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Smithi

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Electric fields in space? Who would have guessed? Oh ya, everyone.

Been living under a rock, Michael? Why don't you read that book I linked to twice? As I've said a number of times, you appear to have little to no understanding of the relevant science;

The plasma is the next state: the fourth, reached by furnishing enough
energy to break the atoms themselves, or rather to kick off at least the outer
atomic electron, producing a mixture of electrons and ions. For doing so, one
has to heat or to compress, to bombard with energetic radiation or particles, or
to subject the medium to high electric fields, as we shall see in more detail in
Section 2.4. One (or several) of these ionisation agents acts in most regions of
the Universe.


Like I said, the one thing you'll never provide is a working model of a sustained planetary aurora and a corona in a lab based on "magnetic reconnection".

Neither will you. And, quite frankly, nobody really cares what you think, Michael. You are not a scientist, and have zero influence on the relevant science.

I'm still waiting for the careful laboratory study that demonstrated the difference between ordinary induction and magnetic reconnection.

Why? Nobody is suggesting such a thing. If you believe otherwise, link me to the paper. Magnetic reconnection is an observed fact. Get over it.
 
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Thanks for those informative links.

You're welcome.

Ahh .. Michael's repeated track record goes way back, eh?
Sigh .. how time with him just seems to drag on!

Yes, a loooong way back! And he is still spouting the same debunked nonsense, and has failed to learn anything from his betters;

I'm still waiting for the careful laboratory study that demonstrated the difference between ordinary induction and magnetic reconnection.

He tried to pull this same nonsense on ISF a decade ago. Here is Tim Thompson putting him firmly in his place, and explaining that induction has nothing to do with reconnection;

International Skeptics Forum - View Single Post - [Merged] Electric Sun Theory (Split from: CME's, active regions and high energy flares)
 
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Smithi

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Your incessant need for ad homs is only surpassed the flawed nature of your argument.

There is nothing flawed in my argument. I think you are projecting.



How would you know that if you have never bothered to read his work?

His work is irrelevant to modern studies of the Sun.



I've posted it to other forums. I haven't had any trouble defending it yet, including here.

Really? You mean the innumerate clowns at Blunderdolts? Lol. And you most certainly have trouble defending it. You cannot explain his substitution stuff up, and you cannot explain how his lunacy would move stars at the same velocity as gas.


Velikovski isn't mentioned in Scott's book or papers, and I have no idea why you would associate Alfven or me with Velkiovski.

I don't associate Alfven with the clueless loon Velikovsky. However, you hang around with those people. Maybe you need to distance yourself, lest you get tarred with the same brush as the idiots Thornhill and Talbott. The same could be said for Scott.


Like I said, when you produce a working model of an aurora and corona, let me know.

You haven't got one, nor have you even got a valid scientific mechanism.



Everyone you disagree with is labeled "clueless" or an 'idiot' or loopy. Your argument is so weak you're forced to argue with ad-homs.

Have you read the idiocy that he scribbled, and left in a shoe box under his bed, where it was found after his death, and sent to the Velikovskian rag Kronos? Yep, clueless is an accurate description.



Maybe, but it's a lot more right than anything related to the LCDM model.

Nope, it is 100% wrong.



More personal attacks. Yawn.

No, an accurate assessment. Are you saying he isn't a Velikovskian? Anyone that believes that stuff is a loon by definition.


Except the so called alleged "errors" brought up in this thread ended up being errors of his detractors.

Wrong. And you don't have the courage of your convictions to let Scott's woo be tested on another physics forum. By physicists. It is erroneous garbage.


Actually Marklund convection is another key prediction of a Birkeland current model. It's not so much related to "age" in Scott's model as much as it's related to elemental separation by ionization state in different parts of the current.

Well he's wrong, isn't he? As shown by observation.


Nope. Birkland's model passed every test. I've never personally been interested in an anode model.

Wrong. And Birkeland didn't have a model. It is your invention, and it's wrong.


The only thing that demonstrates (maybe) is that some magnetic field energy is transferred into particle kinetic energy. You've still provided no lab tests to methodically differentiate between ordinary induction in plasma and some unique process known as "magnetic reconnection". I'm still waiting to see it.

Any idiot can see that it isn't induction. What is the diffusion time in the solar plasma? What is the magnetic Reynolds number of that plasma? That is just plain stupidity and denial from you. As usual. And as was pointed out to you by a real scientist a decade ago;

International Skeptics Forum - View Single Post - [Merged] Electric Sun Theory (Split from: CME's, active regions and high energy flares)



I only get bored when the reader refuses to read anything for themselves and expects me to explain it to them. Why should I care what you think of Birkeland's work if you've never bothered to even read it?

I couldn't care less about Birkeland's work. It is irrelevant.


Except the mainstream doesn't have "knowledge" that actually works in the lab and produces the necessary observations.

Another stupid comment. How are you getting a star in a lab? We have observation, and that trumps experiment every time. Did we go looking for neutrinos due to somebody finding them in an experiment on p-p fusion in a lab? No, they were theorised. Then we looked for them. Then we found them.
 
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He tried to pull this same nonsense on ISF a decade ago. Here is Tim Thompson putting him firmly in his place, and explaining that induction has nothing to do with reconnection;

My conversations at JREF about the topic of magnetic reconnection were *extremely* informative, quite enlightening and down right funny. They demonstrated conclusively that my so called "betters" can't distinguish between ordinary magnetic flux inside of a vacuum and the physical process of transferring magnetic field energy into particle acceleration that is described as "magnetic reconnection".

They kept trying to falsely and irrationally assert that MRx took place in a vacuum in the absence of particle acceleration. When I pressed them for a mathematical formula to express a non-zero rate of reconnection in Clinger's ridiculous vacuum contraption, they couldn't produce it, so they simply banned me. LOL!

That was *hysterical*.

Feel free to produce that missing math formula for me anytime you wish. Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath waiting for it. It's close to a decade overdue at this point.
 
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My conversations at JREF about the topic of magnetic reconnection were *extremely* informative and quite enlightening. They demonstrated conclusively that my so called "betters" can't distinguish between ordinary magnetic flux inside of a vacuum and the process of transferring magnetic field energy into particle acceleration that is described as "magnetic reconnection".

They kept trying to falsely and irrationally assert that MRx took place in a vacuum in the absence of particle acceleration. When I pressed them for a mathematical formula to express a non-zero rate of reconnection in Clinger's ridiculous vacuum contraption, they couldn't produce it, so they simply banned me. LOL!

That was *hysterical*.

Yes, it was hilarious. And you were the butt of the joke, Michael. You have clue zero about the subject. As Tim so easily showed. Induction! Dear me. And do not lie about why you were banned.
 
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Michael

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Been living under a rock, Michael? Why don't you read that book I linked to twice? As I've said a number of times, you appear to have little to no understanding of the relevant science;

Considering the fact that those links you posted from JREF failed to contain a math formula to express a non-zero rate of 'magnetic reconnection' in Clinger's vacuum contraption, it's clear you folks are projecting. At least I know that "magnetic reconnection" is a process that occurs *in* plasma and requires the transfer of magnetic field energy into particle acceleration. That's more than you heroes at JREF understood.

Neither will you. And, quite frankly, nobody really cares what you think, Michael. You are not a scientist, and have zero influence on the relevant science.

Yet you're over here at CF talking to me? Why? I think some part of you probably knows just how ridiculous it is that the LCDM model doesn't hole up to public scrutiny.

Why? Nobody is suggesting such a thing.

Why not? How do you know that MRx is a unique physical process and not just ordinary induction in the first place?

If you believe otherwise, link me to the paper. Magnetic reconnection is an observed fact. Get over it.

It's not "observed fact". The only "observed fact" that can be said about MRx experiments is that magnetic field energy can be converted to particle acceleration, but we already knew that was possible via induction. Almost every MRx experiment starts with electric fields, or current flows to generate "reconnection".
 
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Michael

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Yes, it was hilarious. And you were the butt of the joke, Michael. You have clue zero about the subject. As Tim so easily showed. Induction! Dear me. And do not lie about why you were banned.

Feel free to produce that missing math formula for us to describe a non-zero rate of "magnetic reconnect" in Clinger's vacuum contraption without a single charged particle to his name. Tim simply showed that there is no definitive evidence demonstrating that MRx is a unique physical process that is separate from induction.
 
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Considering the fact that those links you posted from JREF failed to contain a math formula to express a non-zero rate of 'magnetic reconnection' in Clinger's vacuum contraption, it's clear you folks are projecting. At least I know that "magnetic reconnection" is a process that occurs *in* plasma and requires the transfer of magnetic field energy into particle acceleration. That's more than you heroes at JREF understood.

No Michael, you understand nothing about reconnection as was explained to you by experts in the field. And that is still the case.


Yet you're over here at CF talking to me? Why? I think some part of you probably knows just how ridiculous it is that the LCDM model doesn't hole up to public scrutiny.

I couldn't care less what the public, such as you, think about it. You are an irrelevance, Michael. You are not a scientist, and you are not publishing in the field.


Why not? How do you know that MRx is a unique physical process and not just ordinary induction in the first place?

Induction is a stupid claim. As Tim Thompson pointed out. It relies on the magnetic diffusivity of the plasma. Do you know how to work that out, Michael? If you did, you would realise why it is such a dumb idea.


It's not "observed fact". The only "observed fact" that can be said about MRx experiments is that magnetic field energy can be converted to particle acceleration, but we already knew that was possible via induction. Almost every MRx experiment starts with electric fields, or current flows to generate "reconnection".

Yes, it is an observed fact. If you believe otherwise, then link to a paper that says otherwise. Induction? Don't make me laugh............... too late! Haha.
 
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Tim simply showed that there is no definitive evidence demonstrating that MRx is a unique physical process that is separate from induction.

That is a lie.

Mozina:
It's called "induction".

Thompson:
It most certainly is not. And to the surprise of no one, we have already been down this road. The key to understanding why it cannot be induction is that induction can change only the geometry of a magnetic field, but can never change its topology.

Mozina:
Yet you won't personally explain what's unique about magnetic reconnection, so what can I say Tim?

Thompson:
That's not true, and you know it. It's no wonder that people keep calling you a liar. Are you trying to add me to the list? I have already done that many times. I said it was a change in the topology of the magnetic field, and that certainly is not induction by any stretch of the imagination. Besides, induction is strictly limited by the diffusion timescale of the plasma, whereas reconnection is impulsive. The two processes are distinctly different both in theory and in practice. Impulsive energy release, such as a solar flare, is quite impossible for any induction process.

So, instead of spreading falsehoods, and further displaying your ignorance of the subject, why do you not do the simple thing, and actually link to a scientific work which says that it is induction? Because if the only person on the planet claiming such a thing is you, then why should we take any notice of it, given how little you know about the subject?
 
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His work is irrelevant to modern studies of the Sun.

You wouldn't know because you've never read it.

I've posted it to other forums. I haven't had any trouble defending it yet, including here.
Really? You mean the innumerate clowns at Blunderdolts?

More ad-homs. Don't you have any real arguments?

And you most certainly have trouble defending it. You cannot explain his substitution stuff up,

I already did in several posts. I explained by the math error made by Scott's detractors, and I explained the physics error they made too.

and you cannot explain how his lunacy would move stars at the same velocity as gas.

There's more mass *outside* of the stars. Move the plasma and the stars will move too. It's no mystery.

I don't associate Alfven with the clueless loon Velikovsky. However, you hang around with those people.

I hang out here and discuss various topics with atheists too, but that hardly makes me an atheist. I hang out with a lot of people.

Maybe you need to distance yourself, lest you get tarred with the same brush as the idiots Thornhill and Talbott. The same could be said for Scott.

Apparently it's beyond your capacity to make a single post that doesn't include a healthy does of ad-homs and personal insults. That only demonstrates that you don't have a real scientific argument.

You haven't got one, nor have you even got a valid scientific mechanism.


That's just pure denial. The mechanism used to heat the corona and aurora in that video is an electric field. The excited corona and aurora are clearly visible in the experiment. Denial and ad-homs are your only lines of defense. You've got no scientific argument.

Wrong. And you don't have the courage of your convictions to let Scott's woo be tested on another physics forum. By physicists. It is erroneous garbage.

What are you talking about? I've posted to Scott's model to many other forums. Usually they simply remove the post and refuse to even discuss it. That's not my fault.

Well he's wrong, isn't he? As shown by observation.

No, he's not wrong, and in his video Scott even cites at least one counter rotational galaxy that shows signs of Markund convection.

Wrong. And Birkeland didn't have a model. It is your invention, and it's wrong.

The fact that you absolutely refuse to read his work isn't evidence that he had no model. Your ignorance of his work is self imposed.


That's more than you will ever accomplish in the lab with MRx.

Any idiot can see that it isn't induction.

Back to the ad-homs. Yawn. Do you even know how to debate fairly?

What is the diffusion time in the solar plasma?

I'm not talking about solar observation, I'm talking about real physical lab tests that demonstrate conclusively that that there is some observed physical difference between ordinary induction in a conductor, and what you're describing as "magnetic reconnection". You keep trying to skip the lab part of the work and point at *unrelated* observations in the sky as evidence to support your model, *before* you do the lab work that even demonstrates that you have a real model.


What was painfully pointed out to me at JREF is that JREF supporters don't even understand the first thing about MRx theory, starting with the fact that defined as a process that occurs *in* plasma that involves the transfer of magnetic field energy into particle acceleration. Clinger prattled on for *months* about how he was going to demonstrate MRx *without* plasma and never came up with his missing math formula to describe a non-zero rate of MRx in his vacuum contraption. Not a single JREF member bothered to set Clinger straight, and not a single one of them helped Clinger come up with his missing formula.

I couldn't care less about Birkeland's work. It is irrelevant.

You can't even replicate the simplest aspects of coronal heating or sustained aurora in a lab, so it's not irrelevant to solar physics, it's just irrelevant to you personally.

Another stupid comment.

That's just another example of you relying upon personal insults instead of valid scientific arguments. You're sounding more desperate by the post.

How are you getting a star in a lab?

I'm not asking you to build a whole star in a lab. I'm asking to see you created a sustained planetary aurora and a sustained full sphere hot corona based on "magnetic reconnection". I can and have easily demonstrated those things are related to electric fields in a real lab experiment. why can't you do that with MRx?

We have observation, and that trumps experiment every time.

False. A pure observation doesn't always allow us to determine cause. Your argument based strictly on observation is an affirming the consequent fallacy.

Did we go looking for neutrinos due to somebody finding them in an experiment on p-p fusion in a lab? No, they were theorised. Then we looked for them. Then we found them.

We found them in controlled experimentation, not by pointing at the sky and claiming "neutrons did it".
 
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Michael

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No Michael, you understand nothing about reconnection as was explained to you by experts in the field. And that is still the case.

False. I know that MRx is a process that occurs *in plasma* that requires the transfer of magnetic field energy into particle acceleration. That's more than the whole JREF crew knew about it. It's been almost a whole decade and I'm *still* waiting to see Clinger's missing math formula to describe a non-zero rate of reconnection in his vacuum contraption. I'm sure you'll never provide it either.

I couldn't care less what the public, such as you, think about it. You are an irrelevance, Michael. You are not a scientist, and you are not publishing in the field.

You may not care what the public thinks about it now, but the public is getting fed up with spending billions of dollars on dark matter snipe hunts and finding nothing. They're getting tired of all the placeholder terms for human ignorance and they want real answers. LCDM proponents don' have any of those answers.

Induction is a stupid claim.

Er no. It's a known and demonstrated process in conductors when exposed to a time variable magnetic field. The fact you can't distinguish between ordinary induction in a plasma conductor and "magnetic reconnection' isn't my fault, it's yours.

As Tim Thompson pointed out. It relies on the magnetic diffusivity of the plasma. Do you know how to work that out, Michael? If you did, you would realise why it is such a dumb idea.

If it's such a dumb idea then you should have no problem at all providing me with an experiment that shows the key physical difference between induction and MRx. Where is it?

Yes, it is an observed fact. If you believe otherwise, then link to a paper that says otherwise. Induction? Don't make me laugh............... too late! Haha.

You're the one making the extraordinary claim that MRx is unique and different from ordinary induction. You're the one making the claim, not me, therefore it's your responsibility to demonstrate your claim in a real experiment. Can you do that or not? Yes or no?
 
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