Gal 4 and Gal 5 and "under Law" explained without deleting God's Commandments

[listed]

True that is how the Gospel works. Forgiveness of sins



Not under the condemnation of the LAW -- while at the same time the LAW is written on the heart of the Christian who then "establishes the LAW" Rom 3:31 by walking in the Spirit.

Thus it is a sin even for the saints of the NT 'to take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God that we KEEP His commandments"
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother..for this is the first commandment WITH a promise" in that still valid TEN Commandment unit of LAW.

It is not about "earning our way to heaven" it is about "a changed life" -- "By their fruits you shall know them" Matthew 7

Where does the law forgive sin?

 

[listed]

That is not true logically. I am not under the condemnation of the laws of my state as a criminal - but that does not mean that by that reason alone -- I can never be condemned in the future as a criminal.

Yes God's word isn't true.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes God's word isn't true.

sad.

 

[BobRyan]

Where does the law forgive sin?

Where do I say the Law forgives sins???

What is the lost person's view of the law? In Romans 8:4-10 Paul says the lost person acting only out of the sinful nature (the flesh) "does not submit to the Law of God neither indeed CAN they"

By contrast the saved person under the NEW Covenant has the "Law written on the heart" Jeremiah 31:31-33

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
1. To be justified by law does not mean that you are a sinner who found a way to stop sinning. It means you had to have never sinned at all.

What are we justified by?

Saved by grace through faith... Eph 2
Justified by faith Romans 5:1

Because "ALL have sinned" and so 'justification by law" is not possible.

The relationship of the LOST toward the LAW -- is that they must die
and in Christ "all are buried in baptism" Romans 6. No longer "slaves to sin".

The LAW condemns all the world as sinners and 'the wages of sin is death'

in Christ we are made to die to that condemnation of the law - and "the certificate of debt is nailed to the cross' Col 2:16 - paying our debt owed by sin.

But the relationship of the "save" is the NEW Covenant and so then "LAW of God written on heart and mind"

Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law"
Heb 8:6-12 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

1 John 3:4 'Sin IS transgression of the LAW" even after the cross.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother for this is the first Commandment With a promise" in that still valid - distinct unit of TEN

irrefutable.

(which means no matter how many times these texts are assailed they will stand all the opposition unmoved)

 

[listed]

That is not true logically. I am not under the condemnation of the laws of my state as a criminal - but that does not mean that by that reason alone -- I can never be condemned in the future as a criminal.

Matthew 18 - Christ teaches the law of "Forgiveness revoked" just as we see in in Ezek 18.

And in Romans 11 - again 'Forgiveness revoked".

In Gal 5:4 "you have been severed from Christ... you have fallen from grace"

1 Cor 6 Paul says "be not deceived" when instructing the saints in the church - about the deeds of those who will not be in heaven.

What I responded to is:

That is not true logically. I am not under the condemnation of the laws of my state as a criminal - but that does not mean that by that reason alone -- I can never be condemned in the future as a criminal.

The problem is your placing others under the condemnation of the law you, yourself aren't compliant with. What is the truth? Why doesn't it apply to everyone equally? Why is it that others are under condemnation while you aren't by the same law for the same reason - noncompliance? Any degree of non compliance is still noncompliance.

 

[BobRyan]

But if Christians are not under the condemnation of the law, they cannot be guilty unto death for their shortcomings concerning that law

That is not true logically. I am not under the condemnation of the laws of my state as a criminal - but that does not mean that by that reason alone -- I can never be condemned in the future as a criminal.

Matthew 18 - Christ teaches the law of "Forgiveness revoked" just as we see in in Ezek 18.

And in Romans 11 - again 'Forgiveness revoked".

In Gal 5:4 "you have been severed from Christ... you have fallen from grace"

1 Cor 6 Paul says "be not deceived" when instructing the saints in the church - about the deeds of those who will not be in heaven.

What I responded to is:

That is not true logically. I am not under the condemnation of the laws of my state as a criminal - but that does not mean that by that reason alone -- I can never be condemned in the future as a criminal.

interesting.

The problem is your placing others under the condemnation of the law

The actual Bible says "These things I write that you sin NOT.. Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 2:1 1 John 3:4

The point remains that I did not write the Bible... I read it.

 

[BobRyan]

But the relationship of the "save" is the NEW Covenant and so then "LAW of God written on heart and mind"

Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law"
Heb 8:6-12 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

1 John 3:4 'Sin IS transgression of the LAW" even after the cross.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother for this is the first Commandment With a promise" in that still valid - distinct unit of TEN

irrefutable.

(which means no matter how many times these texts are assailed they will stand all the opposition unmoved)

The problem is your placing others under the condemnation of the law you, yourself aren't compliant with. What is the truth? Why doesn't it apply to everyone equally? Why is it that others are under condemnation while you aren't by the same law for the same reason - noncompliance? Any degree of non compliance is still noncompliance.

The point remains - that I did not write the Bible... I read it.


Rom 3:31 "do we then make void the law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the Law"
Heb 8:6-12 "I will write My LAW on their heart and mind"

1 John 3:4 'Sin IS transgression of the LAW" even after the cross.
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS the Love of God - that we KEEP His Commandments"
Eph 6:2 "Honor your father and mother for this is the first Commandment With a promise" in that still valid - distinct unit of TEN

irrefutable.

The mere quote of the texts above is sufficient cause to give rise to strong objection to them

 

[listed]

interesting

Agreed. Now why do you insist other are?

 

[listed]

The point remains - that I did not write the Bible... I read it.

One of the problems you present using the Bible to tear down others is a major reason many don't come to Jesus. What you offer has no hope. This is demonstrated very well by coming in the front door and departing from the back door in haste.

 

[BobRyan]

One of the problems you present using the Bible to tear down others .

I don't do that... stick with the facts please.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑]
interesting

Agreed. Now why do you insist other are?

I find your logic "illusive" just then

 

[Tayla]

Yes God's word isn't true.

The Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God.

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible is the inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God.

Amen!

 

[BobRyan]

Gal 04 - not being ignored by me.

 

[R7-12]

Hi all,

If I could share some of my understanding of the Law and Commandments of God, there are several important factors that often prevent a correct understanding of certain verses, and therefore, the Law and Commandments themselves.

The first problem is that we (everyone who reads the Bible) apply our own preconceived understanding of scripture based on what we've been taught throughout our lives, or simply assumed to be true. We even do this with individual words that we assume we understand perfectly. Example,

The Greek text of Rom: 2:12 does not use the phrase “under the law”, it says “sinned in law”.

Rom. 3:19 also says, “in the law” not under the law.

1 Cor. 9:20 uses the phrase “under law” three times. The next verse does not, rather, it says, “in law of Christ.”

Gal. 3:23; 4:4-5; 5:18 – all use the term “under (the) law.”

And people often just assume they know what the phrase, "under the law" means and how the NT writers understood it. But these assumptions are false.

Speaking of Christ, the following verses state,

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons (Gal. 4:4–5; NASB).

Now, based upon your belief of what the NT writers meant when they used the phrase “under the law”, what is Paul revealing in these two verses in Galatians specifically regarding Christ and the phrase, “under the law”?

And please keep in mind that the concepts of adoption and redemption are very much a part of what Paul is saying.

 

[BobRyan]

Now, based upon your belief of what the NT writers meant when they used the phrase “under the law”, what is Paul revealing in these two verses in Galatians specifically regarding Christ and the phrase, “under the law”?

And please keep in mind that the concepts of adoption and redemption are very much a part of what Paul is saying.

Rom 3:19-20 presents the fact that all mankind are sinners (Rom 3:23) and all condemned under the Law of God (the law that defines what sin is 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the law") -

We are under that same O.C. condemnation as all mankind O.T. or N.T. until we accept the Gospel New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34) at which point that same law is now written on the heart.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Very good OP.

Do we make void the Law because of faith? God forbid. Verily, we establish the Law.

"Under Law" simply means saved by the Law ALONE. It is the same as Orthodox jews believe today. This is a mistake.

Just because we have faith in Christ does not mean we are free from the Law. We are free from eternal damnation. We are free from the spiritual consequences of breaking the Law.

Yeshua did not abolish the Law. He even said so.

 

[R7-12]

Rom 3:19-20 presents the fact that all mankind are sinners (Rom 3:23) and all condemned under the Law of God (the law that defines what sin is 1 John 3:4 "sin IS transgression of the law") - .

Yes, one who is "under the law" simply means they have broken it, and now are facing the potential consequences.

It's like running a red light and being pulled over. You have broken the law and now face the possibility of paying the price. However, if you are able to appeal to the Police Officer and he decides not to write you a ticket - you have been pardoned. It's that simple.

Unfortunately, many believe the phrase, "under the law" means to be under obligation to keep the commandments. This is simply not the case - it is an erroneous definition that causes no end to confusion and deception.

We are under that same O.C. condemnation as all mankind O.T. or N.T. until we accept the Gospel New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34) at which point that same law is now written on the heart.

This statement requires some clarification and revision. It's true the penalty for disobedience is death in both Covenants. However, in the OT, it meant physical death only (cut off from the people) as part of the curses of the law in Deut. 28-29.

In the NC, disobedience to God's Law and Commandments means being spiritually cut off and kept in the grave after death until the second resurrection, when the rest of mankind (those not in the 1st. Res.) will be raised, corrected, given an opportunity to understand the truth, repent, be refined, and accept God's way.

 

[klutedavid]

Hi all,

If I could share some of my understanding of the Law and Commandments of God, there are several important factors that often prevent a correct understanding of certain verses, and therefore, the Law and Commandments themselves.

The first problem is that we (everyone who reads the Bible) apply our own preconceived understanding of scripture based on what we've been taught throughout our lives, or simply assumed to be true. We even do this with individual words that we assume we understand perfectly. Example,

The Greek text of Rom: 2:12 does not use the phrase “under the law”, it says “sinned in law”.

Rom. 3:19 also says, “in the law” not under the law.

1 Cor. 9:20 uses the phrase “under law” three times. The next verse does not, rather, it says, “in law of Christ.”

Gal. 3:23; 4:4-5; 5:18 – all use the term “under (the) law.”

And people often just assume they know what the phrase, "under the law" means and how the NT writers understood it. But these assumptions are false.

Speaking of Christ, the following verses state,

But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons (Gal. 4:4–5; NASB).

Now, based upon your belief of what the NT writers meant when they used the phrase “under the law”, what is Paul revealing in these two verses in Galatians specifically regarding Christ and the phrase, “under the law”?

And please keep in mind that the concepts of adoption and redemption are very much a part of what Paul is saying.

What does this verse say?

Romans 2:14
For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves.