Fundamentalism and Intellectualism

[AV1611VET]

Here's a copy of atheist doctrine:

There's probably no god(s).

Two things I'd like to bring out here:

1. Saying 'atheism' means there's probably no god(s) is like saying 'abiogenesis' means there's probably no biogenesis(es).
2. Atheist Doctrine is more than just a singe-line statement of faith, it's a whole way of thinking. For example, are we born atheists? Some of you say, 'yes'; some of you say, 'no'.

 

[AV1611VET]

Their is NO doctrine.

"Doctrine" --- from Answers.com:

A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.

You can claim it's not a doctrine all you want --- I'm really not interested.

After all --- you guys claim God doesn't exist, either --- not to mention a worldwide flood never happening, etc.

I'm well-aware of you guys' penchants for claiming things don't exist.

 

[AV1611VET]

The truest thing you've ever said.

[deleted]

 

[gaara4158]

"Doctrine" --- from Answers.com:You can claim it's not a doctrine all you want --- I'm really not interested.

After all --- you guys claim God doesn't exist, either --- not to mention a worldwide flood never happening, etc.

I'm well-aware of you guys' penchants for claiming things don't exist.

What you're describing here is strong atheism. The dogmatic belief that there is definitely no God. I am not aware of anyone on these boards, except maybe consol, who actually holds the belief that God definitely doesn't exist. The rest of us are regular atheists and agnostics... we don't buy any absolute supernatural claims, negative or positive.

get it now?

 

[MoonLancer]

This could equally well describe agnostics. Therefore it would seem that there is a further necessary condition to atheism. And that necessary condition is a belief.

Atheists believe there is no God. And this could be regarded as a doctrine of atheism, since it is a belief that they are happy to expound upon, and to explain to others. We could even postulate other doctrines, such as the fact that morality is not a function of religion, but of humanity. Certainly this is often the basis for atheist complaints about believers, and the malign influence of religion.

Saying that god doesn't exist and lacking a belief in god are 2 different things.

an atheist lacks a belief in god, this has nothing to do with claiming god doesn't exist.

But atheism is strictly lack of belief in a god. Since this is not a positive statement its pretty hard to say atheists have a doctrine based non belief. I mean you don't make claims that people have doctrines if they lack belief in the tooth fairy right?

 

[AV1611VET]

get it now?

No --- I don't.

 

[AV1611VET]

Saying that god doesn't exist and lacking a belief in god are 2 different things.

an atheist lacks a belief in god, this has nothing to do with claiming god doesn't exist.

But atheism is strictly lack of belief in a god. Since this is not a positive statement its pretty hard to say atheists have a doctrine based non belief. I mean you don't make claims that people have doctrines if they lack belief in the tooth fairy right?

Like I said, it goes beyond believing God doesn't exist:

1. No global flood.
2. No parting of the Red Sea.
3. No virgin birth.
4. No walking on water.
5. No resurrection.
6. No verbal plenary inspiration, preservation, etc.
7. No ex nihilo creation.

 

[gaara4158]

Two things I'd like to bring out here:

1. Saying 'atheism' means there's probably no god(s) is like saying 'abiogenesis' means there's probably no biogenesis(es).
2. Atheist Doctrine is more than just a singe-line statement of faith, it's a whole way of thinking. For example, are we born atheists? Some of you say, 'yes'; some of you say, 'no'.

1. No, actually, it is not, unless abiogenesis means that nobody is ever born through biological processes.
2. No, actually, it's even less than a statement of faith. It's a statement of a lack of faith, nothing more. The variation of answers you get on atheism from atheists is evidence against a single "way of thinking," not for it.

 

[gaara4158]

Like I said, it goes beyond believing God doesn't exist:

1. No global flood.
2. No parting of the Red Sea.
3. No virgin birth.
4. No walking on water.
5. No resurrection.
6. No verbal plenary inspiration, preservation, etc.
7. No ex nihilo creation.

It's a lack of belief in God, so it's going to be a lack of belief in claims about him too...

 

[MoonLancer]

Doctrine" --- from Answers.com:

You can claim it's not a doctrine all you want --- I'm really not interested.

that's too bad, because the definition from answers had nothing to do with atheists. we do not have a unified body of principles, or a unified belief, atheism is not inherently religious, political, scientific, or apart of a philosophic group or dogma. your statement is false.

Atheist means lack or non belief in a god(s). nothing more, and nothing lass. Its really simple, even a kid can understand it.

After all --- you guys claim God doesn't exist,

but claiming god doesn't exist has nothing to do with the definition of atheist, so it really has nothing to do with the doctrine your making up for us. some atheists though may make the claim that god doesn't exist this has nothing to do with the definition of atheist which you are misusing and abusing.

I'm well-aware of you guys' penchants for claiming things don't exist.

And i am well aware of you grossly misusing definitions, and you cant seem to understand the deference between belief and lack of belief. or you just don't want to.

 

[Freodin]

Like I said, it goes beyond believing God doesn't exist:

1. No global flood.
2. No parting of the Red Sea.
3. No virgin birth.
4. No walking on water.
5. No resurrection.
6. No verbal plenary inspiration, preservation, etc.
7. No ex nihilo creation.

It does not go "beyond"... all you listed is simply a consequence of that basic (dis)belief.

Who flooded the earth? God did... so no God, no flood.
Who partet the Red Sea? Moses, by the power and command of God. No God, no prophet Moses.
Who was born by a virgin and who, erm, impregnated that virgin? God, in the forms of father and son. No God, no virgin birth.

Etc. I thing you get the idea.

But atheists also don´t believe that Europa was kidnapped and raped by a bull, that Isis rivived the slain Osiris, that the Japanese Emperor is descended from the Sun Goddess, that thunder is the sound of Thor´s hammer, that Muhammed ascended into heaven on his horse... everything that is related to deities is by definition not believed by atheists.

Because atheists do not believe in gods... that´s all.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's a lack of belief in God, so it's going to be a lack of belief in claims about him too...

Like I said, Gaara, I don't think like an atheist thinks, so you can spend the next several hours trying to educate me on what an atheist thinks or doesn't think, and it's not going to help. Especially since ten minutes won't pass without an atheist somewhere saying something different.

If the word 'doctrine' bugs you guys that much, simply change it to something else in your minds, and move on to the point that's being made.

I have to put up with you guys using the word 'magic', instead of miracles; now I have to put up with you guys whining I'm calling it 'doctrine' instead of [whatever].

Mamma mia.

 

[gaara4158]

Like I said, Gaara, I don't think like an atheist thinks, so you can spend the next several hours trying to educate me on what an atheist thinks or doesn't think, and it's not going to help. Especially since ten minutes won't pass without an atheist somewhere saying something different.

Then for the love of Christ please don't try to tell us what we think or don't think. Not everyone likes being told what to think.

If the word 'doctrine' bugs you guys that much, simply change it to something else in your minds, and move on to the point that's being made.

I have to put up with you guys using the word 'magic', instead of miracles; now I have to put up with you guys whining I'm calling it 'doctrine' instead of [whatever].

Mamma mia.

We don't even know what you're talking about when you say "atheist doctrine." Point taken on the magic thing, but really, you may as well be asking for Odysseus's diary when you ask for atheist doctrine. It's not like we have a book that we all believe but we call it a "sacred journal" not "doctrine." We all have our own personal beliefs... so why not ask for those? That's what you're after anyway.

 

[AV1611VET]

We don't even know what you're talking about when you say "atheist doctrine."

If you think for one minute I'm going to believe that, then please sell me the Brooklyn Bridge.

You guys think just because you're atheists, you're immune to worship, idolatry, and doctrine; and the Bible says otherwise.

Acting like you don't know what I'm talking about when I use the term 'Atheist doctrine' is, imo, being a little ... well ... naive?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Like I said, Gaara, I don't think like an atheist thinks, so you can spend the next several hours trying to educate me on what an atheist thinks or doesn't think, and it's not going to help.

Are you saying that you're incapable of learning?

Especially since ten minutes won't pass without an atheist somewhere saying something different.

That would sort of shoot down your claim of an "Atheist doctrine," wouldn't it?

If the word 'doctrine' bugs you guys that much, simply change it to something else in your minds, and move on to the point that's being made.

Without your insistance on the word "doctrine," there is no point.

I have to put up with you guys using the word 'magic', instead of miracles; now I have to put up with you guys whining I'm calling it 'doctrine' instead of [whatever].

The funny thing is, you put up with it because we used definitions besides the ones you yourself concocted.

Mamma mia.

here I go again,
My my, how can I resist you?
Mamma mia,
does it show again?
My my, just how much I've missed you...

 

[Bombila]

If you think for one minute I'm going to believe that, then please sell me the Brooklyn Bridge.

You guys think just because you're atheists, you're immune to worship, idolatry, and doctrine; and the Bible says otherwise.

Acting like you don't know what I'm talking about when I use the term 'Atheist doctrine' is, imo, being a little ... well ... naive?

No group is immune to worship, idolatry and doctrine - you could be talking about political stances or ritualistic fetishes. We are all human, after all.

Some atheists have indeed adopted a set of principles which they think express their personal opinions on theism.

Quite a few atheists are really free thinkers*, however, and ignoring those individuals is like ignoring the fact that most Christians are not creationists.

You attract a lot of attention because of your 'embedded age' notions. You know this is an unusual belief, so you should not find it surprising that a lot of people will argue about it.

But then, you mostly enjoy arguing, or you wouldn't be here.

*Free thinkers in the sense of not accepting any doctrine, including the doctrinal statement 'There is no God'.

 

[redwards]

I don't think like an atheist.

This sentence is missing a comma.

 

[MoonLancer]

I have to put up with you guys using the word 'magic', instead of miracles; now I have to put up with you guys whining I'm calling it 'doctrine' instead of [whatever].

Mamma mia.

miracle is a type of magic. are you saying a miracle does not have these qualities?

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or invoking the supernatural: “stubborn unlaid ghost/That breaks his magic chains at curfew time” (John Milton).
2. Possessing distinctive qualities that produce unaccountable or baffling effects.

oh and 'doctrine' instead of [whatever]? Well considering atheism has no doctrine i don't see why one should simply replace the definition of doctrine with something else. are you even able to come up with and example of that something else?

 

[MoonLancer]

You guys think just because you're atheists, you're immune to worship, idolatry, and doctrine; and the Bible says otherwise.

and the bible also says that black people were cursed to be slaves (or that being black was the mark of the curse). Or rather that's what Christians said 200 years ago.
oh and yes atheists do not worship, have idols or have a doctrine. The bible in this case is wrong, just like it was wrong about more then a few tings.

Acting like you don't know what I'm talking about when I use the term 'Atheist doctrine' is, imo, being a little ... well ... naive?

right back at you.

 

[atomweaver]

Like I said, Gaara, I don't think like an atheist thinks

I beg to differ. Do you think the Norse god Thor is real, AVVET? If yes, you are not a Christian. If no, you think like an atheist.