Fundamental challenge

[Ohioprof]

The Resurrection of the Dead

1 Corinthians 15:12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

I believe scripture addressed this. Of course, I'm sure you have your own interpretation of it.

I do not subscribe to the Bible as my scripture. It has no authority for me regardless of what it says. I do not regard the Bible as the word of God, and my understanding of morality is not defined by the Bible. It matters not at all to me.

I'm sure there are people here who will debate or discuss an interpretation of scripture with you. My point earlier was simply that different Christians interpret the Bible differently. There were Christians who regarded the Bible as pro-slavery, and Christians who regarded the Bible as anti-slavery. They interpreted the Bible differently. I am a Christian because I try to follow the teachings of Jesus, but I do not recognize the Bible as authoritative or as my scripture. So I'm not the person to debate how to interpret any passage of scripture, as I don't subscribe to any of them, however you might interpret them.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I do not subscribe to the Bible as my scripture. It has no authority for me regardless of what it says. I do not regard the Bible as the word of God, and my understanding of morality is not defined by the Bible. It matters not at all to me.

I'm sure there are people here who will debate or discuss an interpretation of scripture with you. My point earlier was simply that different Christians interpret the Bible differently. There were Christians who regarded the Bible as pro-slavery, and Christians who regarded the Bible as anti-slavery. They interpreted the Bible differently. I am a Christian because I try to follow the teachings of Jesus, but I do not recognize the Bible as authoritative or as my scripture. So I'm not the person to debate how to interpret any passage of scripture, as I don't subscribe to any of them, however you might interpret them.

sorry, I don't think you can separate the source of information from Jesus, and claim to follow him. Just my take on the matter.

In my opinion (and that is all it is, not some creedal standpoint you need condemn, you can be mad at just me) the religion you have chosen, is one that basically conforms, changes, and warps to fit whatever it is you want to do.

 

[Ohioprof]

sorry, I don't think you can separate the source of information from Jesus, and claim to follow him. Just my take on the matter.

In my opinion (and that is all it is, not some creedal standpoint you need condemn, you can be mad at just me) the religion you have chosen, is one that basically conforms, changes, and warps to fit whatever it is you want to do.

I would not get angry at you for disagreeing with me. You are free, as am I, to believe as we choose. I appreciate the views of people that differ from my views.

I have chosen my faith. To me, faith is not a doctrine or a creed; it's a practice, a way of life. Different people will always adhere to different creeds. What is important to me is to choose a way of living that I think best serves God and humanity. That means living according to the teachings of Jesus, as best we can figure out what those teachings are. That means trying to discern, from the 4 Gospels in the Bible as well as from other sources like the Gnostic Gospels, what Jesus probably said. We will never know with certainty what he said, but scholars are doing their best to try to figure it out as best they can from the available historical sources. I see the Bible as a historical source, one that must be read critically and carefully. Scholars have mostly recognized that the Gospel of John contains little if anything of what Jesus ever probably actually said. Most of it was made up later and attributed to Jesus.

Anyway, I do believe in choosing one's faith and in deciding for oneself what to believe. I think we need to use our minds that God gave us. I do not believe in following any particular text, at least not without critically analyzing it. I do not believe that any scripture is the infallible word of God, or the word of God at all.

 

[BigBadWlf]

sorry, I don't think you can separate the source of information from Jesus, and claim to follow him. Just my take on the matter.

To do otherwise is to worship a book, which is idolatry

In my opinion (and that is all it is, not some creedal standpoint you need condemn, you can be mad at just me) the religion you have chosen, is one that basically conforms, changes, and warps to fit whatever it is you want to do.

*holds up a mirror*

 

[BigBadWlf]

There is a difference between loving someone, and loving someone with lust. God commands us to love others in agape love, not eros love.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." John 13:34-35

“Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.” Rom 13:8

Not finding anything to support what you are claiming

But of course, eros love is only allowed between men and woman who are married. Otherwise that kind of love is immoral.

What a coincidence that you limit your personal interpretation to allow you to justify personal prejudice against a minority you have chosen to hate

 

[BigBadWlf]

Dunno, first I've heard of this, but I believe it can be done through his power. I don't see why you cannot accept that AT least.

Do you accept that if a black person prays long and hard enough God will change them into a white person? Why can’t you at least accept that?

 

[RMDY]

It has no authority for me regardless of what it says. I do not regard the Bible as the word of God, and my understanding of morality is not defined by the Bible. It matters not at all to me.

Then where does your authority come from? If you do not use the bible as your source as your information, where do you get your source from?

 

[Uphill Battle]

To do otherwise is to worship a book, which is idolatry

Weak. Using a historical record of someone to ascertain your beliefs about someone is not worshiping the book. That's a red herring that's been out in the sun too long, the smell is pretty thick.

*holds up a mirror*

horse droppings. There is much in the bible that if I were to look for my own way on the matter, I would "interpret differently." God has laid some groundwork that my selfish self would prefer he didn't. I don't pretend that the text doesn't say what it doesn't say, or ignore what it DOES say, in favor of doing whatever my corrupt little heart desires.

All of this is irrelevant though... if your religion doesn't ascribe to the bible, your interpretation of it is moot.

BTW, you sport a Catholic Icon, you DO know what your church teaches on the matter, hmm?

 

[RMDY]

Not finding anything to support what you are claiming

There is more than one greek word for love.
According to Bill Bright's book, "The Secret,"




Love
p.86-88 Chapter Seven


"Is there someone at work, or in your church or neighborhood, whom you have trouble loving?

Our Lord Jesus gave love the highest priority. "I am giving you a new commandment to you now --- love each other as much as I love you," He instructed the disciples in John 13:34. The apostle Paul carried on the Master's teaching by writing, "For the whole Law can be summed up in this one command: 'Love others as you love yourself'" (Galatians 5:14)

In the time of Jesus and Paul, there were three Greek words which we now translate into our English word "love:" Eros, phileo, and agape.

Eros suggests sensual titillation; it conveys the idea that "I love you because you excite my sexual desires." We get our modern term erotic from this Greek word.

Phileo is used to depict the love between friends or relatives. It suggests that "I love you because our friendship or family ties make you deserve to be loved."

Agape is God's supernatural, unconditional love ---the love He showed an undeserving world when He sent his Son to die on the cross for our sins. Agape is love because of the inner character of the person who is doing the loving, rather than because the object of that devotion is worthy. It is often "in spite of" rather than love "because." Agape says, "I love you unconditionally---in spite of your sin or your attitude, or regardless of whether you love me."

 

[InHisSpirit]

So according to your "ex" theory, an ex-wife or ex-husband was never really married because you obviously think no one can be an ex anything.

I do believe no matter what I say i will never convince the OP because they choose not to be. They posted a question and refuse the answer or explanations. Again and again the quote about my dreams appear but never my explanation of them. THEY ARE A SPIRITUAL ATTACK.

So to be clear: I WILL NEVER AGAIN ENTER INTO A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP. EVEN IF I WERE TO DIVORCE OR BECOME A WIDOW. I WILL NEVER AGAIN HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP. I WILL ONLY DATE AND REMARRY A MAN.

CHRIST CHANGED MY LIFE.

God bless you all. Anymore questions or statements can be PM to me.

 

[RMDY]

So according to your "ex" theory, an ex-wife or ex-husband was never really married because you obviously think no one can be an ex anything.

I do believe no matter what I say i will never convince the OP because they choose not to be. They posted a question and refuse the answer or explanations. Again and again the quote about my dreams appear but never my explanation of them. THEY ARE A SPIRITUAL ATTACK.

So to be clear: I WILL NEVER AGAIN ENTER INTO A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP. EVEN IF I WERE TO DIVORCE OR BECOME A WIDOW. I WILL NEVER AGAIN HAVE A HOMOSEXUAL RELATIONSHIP. I WILL ONLY DATE AND REMARRY A MAN.

CHRIST CHANGED MY LIFE.

God bless you all. Anymore questions or statements can be PM to me.

Wow. Is this an ex-gay testimony?
I believe a lot of homosexuals on here confuse agape love with other kinds of greek-defined love.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Then where does your authority come from? If you do not use the bible as your source as your information, where do you get your source from?

herself, if I'm reading what she posts correctly.

 

[RMDY]

.

 

[Brieuse]

There is a difference between loving someone, and loving someone with lust. God commands us to love others in agape love, not eros love.

But of course, eros love is only allowed between men and woman who are married. Otherwise that kind of love is immoral.

Can you provide scripture for your latter statement please.

 

[RMDY]

Can you provide scripture for your latter statement please.

I don't understand greek language at the moment and I can't read directly from a greek bible except from a lexicon, but I believe that God distinguishes between kinds of love that are moral and immoral. For example, love for money is a sin. One cannot idolize wealth and God at the same time.

I am someone who believes that God wants us to love others unconditionally in agape, which is in my current beliefs, something that is far from being sexual. For example,

If my friend Amy Chow even if she hates me, that is agape.
If I love my brother Dan even if he hates me, that is agape.
If I love Amy Chow, who is my girlfriend, even if she wants to divorce me, (I will mourn and be sad), that would still be agape.
If I love Amy Chow even if she is my girlfriend and I have sexual relations, because of the fact that I love her unconditionally no matter what she does, this is agape.

So, it doesn't matter is Amy Chow is my friend, my girlfriend, friend, enemy, or even a relative, what matters is that I love her unconditionally regardless. This is why I believe a lot of us confuse agape with eros and phileo. This is a new conclusion I have come to believe in since last week and the last few days.

Honestly, I lack agape. At times people upset me and I feel like I don't want to forgive them and at times I forgive people but don't love people unconditionally like I should. Most of the time, I tend to mistake agape with phileo. Go figure.

But certainly, if I love my girlfriend because of sexuality and because of her attractiveness, and anything along the lines of physical appeal and something she does for me or a quality I like about her, I do not believe this is agape.

 

[RMDY]

Can you provide scripture for your latter statement please.

I cannot provide Scripture yet because I don't understand greek, but I trust Bill Bright and ChaliceThunder also recognizes that there are more than one definition for love in greek.

- Rob

 

[Ohioprof]

Then where does your authority come from? If you do not use the bible as your source as your information, where do you get your source from?

I look to a variety of sources of understanding. They include the teachings of Jesus, as much as we can discern what he probably said, scientific evidence, writings by wise and thoughtful people, personal experience, scholarship in a variety of fields, and all of life.

 

[RMDY]

I look to a variety of sources of understanding. They include the teachings of Jesus, as much as we can discern what he probably said, scientific evidence, writings by wise and thoughtful people, personal experience, scholarship in a variety of fields, and all of life.

Are you not a follower of Jesus?

 

[RMDY]

I look to a variety of sources of understanding. They include the teachings of Jesus, as much as we can discern what he probably said, scientific evidence, writings by wise and thoughtful people, personal experience, scholarship in a variety of fields, and all of life.

How do you look to a variety of sources for understanding when you call yourself a follower of Jesus? The only source your other sources learn about Jesus is from the Scriptures themselves.

 

[RMDY]

I look to a variety of sources of understanding. They include the teachings of Jesus, as much as we can discern what he probably said, scientific evidence, writings by wise and thoughtful people, personal experience, scholarship in a variety of fields, and all of life.

I use to be like that: a person who believed they were Christian but didn't use the bible as my source of information. Ironic, wasn't it? In fact, I turned to world philosophies to explain who God was. I turned to New Age philosophies in an effort to find out who God really was. I got into astrology, out-of-body-experiences, reincarnation, psykic abilities, the whole works---even mediumship. I thank God I didn't get into witchcraft.

I was like you, seeking knowledge from every source, except the bible.

Ohioprof, if you don't rely on the Word of God and the Scriptures alone, your going to go spiritually hungry and if you don't hide the word within your heart, it will destroy you. You must worship in Spirit and Truth. You must walk according to the Spirit, in love, loving God and others unconditionally and have faith that God sent his only begotten Son to die for your sins and that Jesus came in the flesh and is the Son of God and focus on building a relationship with God.