Fundamental challenge

[eastcoast_bsc]

I would like to cut to the chase, and challenge those that often repeat that there are many "Exgays" and that testimonies on "Exgay" websites, prove it so.

Well the challenge is to invite an individual, who was primarily Homosexual (lets , say at least an 8 on a continuim of 1-10. where a 1 is 100% Heterosexual and a 10, is 100% Homosexual) to at least a 2 on the same continuim.

So the challenge is to have an "Exgay" who has been miracuously transformed from gay to straight, come and give a testimony. The one restriction, is that they would have to have been Gay, not bisexual.

If being gay is so wrong, certainly there must be at least 1 willing to answer a few questions.

 

[RMDY]

I would like to cut to the chase, and challenge those that often repeat that there are many "Exgays" and that testimonies on "Exgay" websites, prove it so.

Well the challenge is to invite an individual, who was primarily Homosexual (lets , say at least an 8 on a continuim of 1-10. where a 1 is 100% Heterosexual and a 10, is 100% Homosexual) to at least a 2 on the same continuim.

So the challenge is to have an "Exgay" who has been miracuously transformed from gay to straight, come and give a testimony. The one restriction, is that they would have to have been Gay, not bisexual.

If being gay is so wrong, certainly there must be at least 1 willing to answer a few questions.

I don't agree with what your doing. There could actually be no genuine ex-gays on here and many elsewhere. You should not go about challenging people and put your faith into God for this sort of thing. Either you have faith that homosexuality counts as fornication or you have a different testimony about fornication that is more modern.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I don't agree with what your doing. There could actually be no genuine ex-gays on here and many elsewhere. You should not go about challenging people and put your faith into God for this sort of thing. Either you have faith that homosexuality counts as fornication or you have a different testimony about fornication that is more modern.

Well wouldn't one think that since there are so many here on the forums, that make the claim, sexual attraction is something that can be changed and they offer various web site testimonies to support their claims, that out of all these people , They could either find 1 here from the forums or elsewhere to testify that such change is possible and true ?

I am just asking that there be 1 person that has chan ged from Homosexual to primarily heterosexual. It can be either through reparative therapy or miracle.

Just 1

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

mmmmm No takers ? I guess the Fundies talk the talk, but can't walk the walk.

 

[Ohioprof]

mmmmm No takers ? I guess the Fundies talk the talk, but can't walk the walk.

I do recall that there was a poster here, whose named I have forgotten, who said that he is struggling hard to be celibate because he believes that his attractions for other men are wrong. But if you are struggling to be celibate, it seems to me that you not "ex-gay."

I imagine there are plenty of gay people who, out of guilt and having been hounded by fellow Christians, are trying to be celibate or somehow make themselves feel attracted to someone of the opposite sex. I think it's a terrible thing for people to insist to others that they can and must change their God-given sexual orientation or they will go to hell! Shame on those Christians who make such statements. If they don't like gay people, they should leave us alone.

 

[Brieuse]

I would like to cut to the chase, and challenge those that often repeat that there are many "Exgays" and that testimonies on "Exgay" websites, prove it so.

Well the challenge is to invite an individual, who was primarily Homosexual (lets , say at least an 8 on a continuim of 1-10. where a 1 is 100% Heterosexual and a 10, is 100% Homosexual) to at least a 2 on the same continuim.

So the challenge is to have an "Exgay" who has been miracuously transformed from gay to straight, come and give a testimony. The one restriction, is that they would have to have been Gay, not bisexual.

If being gay is so wrong, certainly there must be at least 1 willing to answer a few questions.

We had one here, but then I asked him ever if he was attracted to women too, while going through his struggle. Never received an answer Then he left.

I'm assuming the OP means homosexual by attraction and not homosexual by act, which many seem to like to seperate.

 

[Brieuse]

I do recall that there was a poster here, whose named I have forgotten, who said that he is struggling hard to be celibate because he believes that his attractions for other men are wrong. But if you are struggling to be celibate, it seems to me that you not "ex-gay."

I imagine there are plenty of gay people who, out of guilt and having been hounded by fellow Christians, are trying to be celibate or somehow make themselves feel attracted to someone of the opposite sex. I think it's a terrible thing for people to insist to others that they can and must change their God-given sexual orientation or they will go to hell! Shame on those Christians who make such statements. If they don't like gay people, they should leave us alone.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. "out of guilt and having being hounded by Christians"

I'm sure Psychological Institutions are having a field day with this.

 

[Brieuse]

I don't agree with what your doing. There could actually be no genuine ex-gays on here and many elsewhere. You should not go about challenging people and put your faith into God for this sort of thing. Either you have faith that homosexuality counts as fornication or you have a different testimony about fornication that is more modern.

You seem stuck on "fornication"

Monogamous relationships are not "fornication" as you so kindly put it. It's marriage.

 

[RMDY]

You seem stuck on "fornication"

Monogamous relationships are not "fornication" as you so kindly put it. It's marriage.

That is like believing in a Muslim-Koranic testimony about Jesus.

Truly, when one speaks about Jesus Christ, there are two testimonies: a Koranic one and a Biblical one. Only one can be right. Muslims testify that Jesus is not the Son of God but instead is a prophet sent by God born of the Virgin Mary, and they also believe that he was not crucified. But the Biblical account begs to differ. Yet, both claim to have the right view about Jesus Christ and both testimonies differ.

You testify that sexual immorality excludes homosexuality within a marriage. I testify that homosexuality is sexually immoral. Only one of us can be right.

 

[Ohioprof]

That is like believing in a Muslim-Koranic testimony about Jesus.

Truly, when one speaks about Jesus Christ, there are two testimonies: a Koranic one and a Biblical one. Only one can be right. Muslims testify that Jesus is not the Son of God but instead is a prophet sent by God born of the Virgin Mary, and they also believe that he was not crucified. But the Biblical account begs to differ. Yet, both claim to have the right view about Jesus Christ and both testimonies differ.

You testify that sexual immorality excludes homosexuality within a marriage. I testify that homosexuality is sexually immoral. Only one of us can be right.

If only one of you can be right, I think Brieuse is right.

But you are free to define immorality as you choose. I disagree with your definition of "homosexuality" as "sexually immoral." There is nothing immoral about it. But you can decide to believe that it is immoral if you want to. People are free to believe whatever they want.

 

[BAFRIEND]

Monogamy does not = marriage.

Jesus speaks about not only marriage, but also of divorce making it clear that marriage is a Sacramental and legal- and Jesus only places it in the context as being between a man and a woman. In the NT we know that Jesus attended marriage ceremonies- since there is no record of any Judaic marriages between members of the same sex- the implication is obvious.

 

[Ohioprof]

Monogamy does not = marriage.

Jesus speaks about not only marriage, but also of divorce making it clear that marriage is a Sacramental and legal- and Jesus only places it in the context as being between a man and a woman. In the NT we know that Jesus attended marriage ceremonies- since there is no record of any Judaic marriages between members of the same sex- the implication is obvious.

That's a leap of interpretation.

 

[BAFRIEND]

That's a leap of interpretation.

That is a heap of refutation.

 

[Ohioprof]

That is a heap of refutation.

Hey, we may have a song here.

That's a leap of interpretation
A heap of refutation
Confusing the whole nation
Where will it end? Whooooaaaaa, where will it end?

 

[RMDY]

"First, as to putting the clock back. Would you think I was joking if I said that you can put a clock back, and that if the clock is wrong it often is a very sensible thing to do? But I would rather get away with the whole idea of clocks. We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. We have all seen this when doing arithmetic. When I have started a sum the wrong way, the sooner I admit this and go back, and start over again, the faster I get on. There is nothing progressive about being pigheaded and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think if you look at the present state of the world, it is pretty plan that humanity has been making some big mistake. We are on the wrong road. And if that is so, we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on."

- C.S Lewis on Moral Laws of humanity
MERE CHRISTIANITY

 

[Ohioprof]

"First, as to putting the clock back. Would you think I was joking if I said that you can put a clock back, and that if the clock is wrong it often is a very sensible thing to do? But I would rather get away with the whole idea of clocks. We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turning, then to go forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; and in that case the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. We have all seen this when doing arithmetic. When I have started a sum the wrong way, the sooner I admit this and go back, and start over again, the faster I get on. There is nothing progressive about being pigheaded and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think if you look at the present state of the world, it is pretty plan that humanity has been making some big mistake. We are on the wrong road. And if that is so, we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on."

- C.S Lewis on Moral Laws of humanity
MERE CHRISTIANITY

And this is in reference to what, exactly?

Supporting fair and equal treatment for gay people is the RIGHT road, my friend. Accepting gay people as we are is the RIGHT road.

 

[RMDY]

And this is in reference to what, exactly?

Supporting fair and equal treatment for gay people is the RIGHT road, my friend. Accepting gay people as we are is the RIGHT road.

Accepting homosexuality as moral within Christ is moving on to the wrong road and people need to set the clock back to the right time.

 

[Ohioprof]

Accepting homosexuality as moral within Christ is moving on to the wrong road and people need to set the clock back to the right time.

I disagree. I think that insisting that "homosexuality" is "sin" is going down the wrong road, away from the teaching of Jesus to love one's neighbor.

The message of Jesus is love one's neighbor and not to judge them. The message of Jesus is not to hunt around through the Bible to try to justify judging one's neighbor's love as "sinful."

 

[RMDY]

I disagree. I think that insisting that "homosexuality" is "sin" is going down the wrong road, away from the teaching of Jesus to love one's neighbor.

The message of Jesus is love one's neighbor and not to judge them. The message of Jesus is not to hunt around through the Bible to try to justify judging one's neighbor's love as "sinful."

I beg to differ concerning your post:

teaching of Jesus to love one's neighbor.

For example, Corinthians13 is a good example:

"4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Here is an example of a kind of love that goes against Jesus teachings: fornication. My girlfriend may want me to "love" her in the way that she wants me to, but that kind of love is immoral if I am not married. Although others in society accept it as moral, it is unethical for a Christian to express that kind of love outside of marriage.

The message of Jesus is love one's neighbor and not to judge them. The message of Jesus is not to hunt around through the Bible to try to justify judging one's neighbor's love as "sinful."

If you love someone who is in trouble, would you not be concerned to help them? If your christian brother commits murder, will you not tell him it is wrong and use the Word of God to back it up or would you just sit back and not rebuke him because your don't want to "judge" him.

Ohioprof, if a fellow Christian says to you that he loves to commit fornication with a woman and finds nothing wrong with it, I doubt you would sit back and say nothing.

Ohioprof, if your Christian friend hated another Christian and wouldn't forgive that person for a wrong, I doubt you wouldn't rebuke him, in fact, I would expect you to say something to him about his behavior because you love him.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I beg to differ concerning your post:



For example, Corinthians13 is a good example:

"4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

Here is an example of a kind of love that goes against Jesus teachings: fornication. My girlfriend may want me to "love" her in the way that she wants me to, but that kind of love is immoral if I am not married. Although others in society accept it as moral, it is unethical for a Christian to express that kind of love outside of marriage.



If you love someone who is in trouble, would you not be concerned to help them? If your christian brother commits murder, will you not tell him it is wrong and use the Word of God to back it up or would you just sit back and not rebuke him because your don't want to "judge" him.

Ohioprof, if a fellow Christian says to you that he loves to commit fornication with a woman and finds nothing wrong with it, I doubt you would sit back and say nothing.

Ohioprof, if your Christian friend hated another Christian and wouldn't forgive that person for a wrong, I doubt you wouldn't rebuke him, in fact, I would expect you to say something to him about his behavior because you love him.

It is legal in massachusetts for same sex couples to marry. Thus no fornication.

Oh PS Just 1 person who has changed, thats all I aske of ye.