Fun and games

[MbiaJc]

I have 5,000 Blessings for the first one that can produce verses, which proves, God calls one man to paster a Church? BTW Timothy is an Apostle not a Pastor.

Or proves with scripture that God calls one to salvation one day and years later calls the same one to preach?

No Blessings for this, but what is preaching anyway?

 

[mlqurgw]

Moses was called to lead the people alone. When he gave in to the council of his idolotrous father-in-law and complained about the burden God took of the spirit that was on him and put it on those Moses gathered. Things were never the same with Moses after that. Ex. 18:19-26; Num. 11:11-17.

 

[Pepperoni]

Maybe we should define "pastor."

 

[MbiaJc]

Moses was called to lead the people alone. When he gave in to the council of his idolotrous father-in-law and complained about the burden God took of the spirit that was on him and put it on those Moses gathered. Things were never the same with Moses after that. Ex. 18:19-26; Num. 11:11-17.

Moses was a type of Christ, not a pastor. The times you are talking about, was before the Law and Livitical priest hood.

 

[MbiaJc]

Maybe we should define "pastor."

Go right ahead and define it for us.

 

[Salamon]

As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee. Jer 17:16

Hmm still looking but I found this verse with the actual word pastor in it! THough I still am looking to see if the context is right.

 

[Salamon]

Romans 10:12-21 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." 14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!" 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, have they not heard? Yes indeed: "Their sound has gone out to all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world." 19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: "I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation." 20 But Isaiah is very bold and says: "I was found by those who did not seek Me; I was made manifest to those who did not ask for Me." 21 But to Israel he says: "All day long I have stretched out My hands To a disobedient and contrary people." This is from NKJV

 

[Salamon]

1 Timothy 2:1-8
1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;​

2 Timothy 1:6-14
6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. 13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
NKJV /\ last two
Romans 10:12-21
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
2 Timothy 1:6-14
.....11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles........
From KJV /\ last two​

I hope you dont mind here is a definition.
Strong's Number: 2783Browse LexiconOriginal WordWord Originkh'ruxfrom (2784)Transliterated WordTDNT EntryKerux3:683,430Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechkay'-roox Noun Masculine Definition

1. a herald or messenger vested with public authority, who conveyed the official messages of kings, magistrates, princes, military commanders, or who gave a public summons or demand, and performed various other duties. In the NT God's ambassador, and the herald or proclaimer of the divine word.

Greek Word: Kh'rux
Transliterated Word: kerux
Book to Display: 1 Timothy
Verse Count: 1
1Ti 2:7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.



Greek Word: Kh'rux
Transliterated Word: kerux
Book to Display: 2 Timothy
Verse Count: 1
2Ti 1:11Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Well I thought this covers it pretty well. Does it?? God bless, Chris

 

[fireman1173005]

I believe the word pastor is something that we lable people. Not that its bad, but Jesus didn't say, go forth into all nations and be pastors. Sometimes we can put to much emphasis on titles. Just my 2 cents.

Brian

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Jer. 1:5 "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained F1 thee a prophet unto the nations." Is a prophet not the same as a pastor? He stood in the midst of the crowd and said Thus saith the Lord. Does a pastor not do the same thing?

 

[spiritwarrior37]

1 Corn. 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The Spirit gives the gifts.And is the Spirit not God?

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill F9 all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The Spirit gave the gifts mentioned above, and one of them is pastor. Inverse 10 we see that the Spirit descended after Jesus ascended, sent by God the father. In verse 11 we see that He gave the gift to be a pastor. How much more proof do you need?

 

[MbiaJc]

1 Corn. 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The Spirit gives the gifts.And is the Spirit not God?

Ephesians 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill F9 all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

The Spirit gave the gifts mentioned above, and one of them is pastor. Inverse 10 we see that the Spirit descended after Jesus ascended, sent by God the father. In verse 11 we see that He gave the gift to be a pastor. How much more proof do you need?

No spirit writer, a pastor and Prophet, are not the same. When you get a little father along in your studies you will see the difference.

The phrase translated pastor teacher in KJ is misleading. The gift there is teacher; one cannot be a Sheppard without being a teacher. This is not the same thing as being a Sheppard of a Church. Look at that in the Greek if you can and you will see, it is not referring to two gifts.

The only thing that even comes close to this one man pastoral authority we have today is in Judges 17. This is a story of a woman and her son, hiring a priest (a Levite) to come and be their father and priest. In their false god temple they had built.

 

[MbiaJc]

1 Timothy 2:1-8 ​

1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time, 7 for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle--I am speaking the truth in Christ and not lying--a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;​

2 Timothy 1:6-14
6 Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. 8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day. 13 Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.
NKJV /\ last two
Romans 10:12-21
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
2 Timothy 1:6-14
.....11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles........
From KJV /\ last two​

I hope you dont mind here is a definition.
Strong's Number: 2783Browse LexiconOriginal WordWord Originkh'ruxfrom (2784)Transliterated WordTDNT EntryKerux3:683,430Phonetic SpellingParts of Speechkay'-roox Noun Masculine Definition

1. a herald or messenger vested with public authority, who conveyed the official messages of kings, magistrates, princes, military commanders, or who gave a public summons or demand, and performed various other duties. In the NT God's ambassador, and the herald or proclaimer of the divine word.

Greek Word: Kh'rux
Transliterated Word: kerux
Book to Display: 1 Timothy
Verse Count: 1
1Ti 2:7Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.



Greek Word: Kh'rux
Transliterated Word: kerux
Book to Display: 2 Timothy
Verse Count: 1
2Ti 1:11Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

Well I thought this covers it pretty well. Does it?? God bless, Chris

Salomon, I believe I stated not to come back with Timothy. He was not a Pastor, he was a Apostle. But thanks for trying. Keep up your studies, that verse in Jeremiah is a very good response. However Jeremiah was a prophet, speaking of himself as, Sheppard of all Israel.

I am going to give you 300 blesings for your good responses.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

MbiaJc, in Eph. 4:11, the Greek word used for pastor is: poimenas, (nomn, sg., masc., noun) and according to The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, editor, it means: one who tends flocks or herds, a shepherd, herdsman; (Mt. 9:36, 25:32); a pastor, superintendant, guardian, (Jn. 10:11, 14, 16; et. al.)

So the rendering in the KJV is correct. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit being the third of the Godhead, and being God Himself in Spirit, since the gift of Pastor is given by the Holy Spirit (God), God calls pastors. No matter how you slice it, God calls pastors. The Greek text supports it. The KJV rendering supports it. God calls pastors, plain and simple. God gives the gifts to those whom He wants (calls) to be pastors.

 

[DeaconDean]

MbiaJc, in Eph. 4:11, the Greek word used for pastor is: poimenas, (nomn, sg., masc., noun) and according to The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, editor, it means: one who tends flocks or herds, a shepherd, herdsman; (Mt. 9:36, 25:32); a pastor, superintendant, guardian, (Jn. 10:11, 14, 16; et. al.)

So the rendering in the KJV is correct. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit being the third of the Godhead, and being God Himself in Spirit, since the gift of Pastor is given by the Holy Spirit (God), God calls pastors. No matter how you slice it, God calls pastors. The Greek text supports it. The KJV rendering supports it. God calls pastors, plain and simple. God gives the gifts to those whom He wants (calls) to be pastors.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to spiritwarrior37 again.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JacobHall86]

So Basically your question is that you want us to prove that Gods calls Pastors, individual ones, but we cant use the examples of him doing so in Scripture to prove it because you dont like it?

Wow, how about we just guess the number of fingers behind your back instead.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Aaron was called to be a priest. Is this not the same as being a pastor? Men are called by God to be pastors.

Some have mistakenly used Paul’s inspired words in 1 Corinthians 1-2 and 2 Corinthians 3:5-6 as justifying the use of anybody, regardless of God’s gifting, to enter ministry. The foolish things God uses are foolish from the world’s perspective, not God’s perspective. The ones God chooses to minister are gifted by the Spirit to do the work He calls them to do (1 Corinthians 12:1-11; Ephesians 4:11-12). Therefore, if God is calling a person to be a pastor-teacher, they will show evidence of spiritual gifting for such a calling. If God is calling a person to be a pastor then His power working in and through that called person will be evident in such an area.

Jesus initiated the call in the lives of the disciples; they did not come to Him to initiate it. The call by Jesus is more of a follow Me than it is a let me follow You. (Matthew 4:18-22; 10:1-4)

 

[MbiaJc]

MbiaJc, in Eph. 4:11, the Greek word used for pastor is: poimenas, (nomn, sg., masc., noun) and according to The New Analytical Greek Lexicon, Wesley J. Perschbacher, editor, it means: one who tends flocks or herds, a shepherd, herdsman; (Mt. 9:36, 25:32); a pastor, superintendant, guardian, (Jn. 10:11, 14, 16; et. al.)

So the rendering in the KJV is correct. Furthermore, the Holy Spirit being the third of the Godhead, and being God Himself in Spirit, since the gift of Pastor is given by the Holy Spirit (God), God calls pastors. No matter how you slice it, God calls pastors. The Greek text supports it. The KJV rendering supports it. God calls pastors, plain and simple. God gives the gifts to those whom He wants (calls) to be pastors.

I will say again Ehp. 4:11 does not say there is a gift of pastor.
It says pastor teacher, which is one gift not two.

Sheppard teacher(master teacher) is one that is able to teach you God's word. One hast to be a Sheppard to be a teacher.

It doesn't matter how much you mama called and daddy sent deny the fact, that the Elders are the God ordained pastor (Sheppard’s) of the local Church, doesn't change the fact. So holler, whine and howl and see if the facts change.

If you won’t to know where a plaster is in the Bible go to Judges 17 chapter.

And no! God doesn’t call pastors, the Church does. And these days they are using man made doctrine of devils as their guide. You boys are so far off base it is pitiful, don’t you even know that your call to Salvation and discipleship are one and the same and is not separated no where in the scriptures. I have known men that couldn’t even read that know more Bible than you all do.
Forget what you have been taught and study the bible with a clear mind and heart so the Holy Spirit can teach you, Study the Bible not what some dude wrote about it.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Pastors and teachers. The two are seperated here. If they were meant to be one in the same it would be pastor-teacher.

As far as studying the Bible, I have put in as much time or more than you have. It has become clear to myself and others that you have been given the scriptures to prove God calls pastors but you choose to ignore them. I dont want to go to a church where the church called the pastor and not God, because if he is not sent by God how can we hear him, the message he brings. No matter what has been presented you will not change your mind. So I am going to do as Paul said;" And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them." You refuse to hear what we have presented from the scriptures so I am shaking the dust from my feet and unscribing from this thread. May God one day open your eyes.

 

[MbiaJc]

Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

Aaron was called to be a priest. Is this not the same as being a pastor? Men are called by God to be pastors.

Some have mistakenly used Paul’s inspired words in 1 Corinthians 1-2 and 2 Corinthians 3:5-6 as justifying the use of anybody, regardless of God’s gifting, to enter ministry. The foolish things God uses are foolish from the world’s perspective, not God’s perspective. The ones God chooses to minister are gifted by the Spirit to do the work He calls them to do (1 Corinthians 12:1-11; Ephesians 4:11-12). Therefore, if God is calling a person to be a pastor-teacher, they will show evidence of spiritual gifting for such a calling. If God is calling a person to be a pastor then His power working in and through that called person will be evident in such an area.

Jesus initiated the call in the lives of the disciples; they did not come to Him to initiate it. The call by Jesus is more of a follow Me than it is a let me follow You. (Matthew 4:18-22; 10:1-4)

If you think God has called you to preach, just show one place in the bible where an example is given? Except tied to your call to Salvation and dicipleship for they are one and the same.
Also do you know what preaching is? When the Bible speaks of preaching, what is it referring to?

You are confusing scripture, Aaron was the high priest, and Jesus is our high priest.

Your call to Salvation and Discipleship are one and the same and are not separated no where in scripture. No where!
Jesus is still giving the gifts of Apostles, Prophet, and Teacher, and God is still setting them in the Church Eph. 4:11 & 1Cor. 12:28 if one has one of these gifts he needs to fine tune it and use it for the hounor and glory of God.

Here are the Spiritual Gifts that make up the body of Christ.

THE SPIRITUAL BODY OF CHRIST

MEMBER: Of the body of Christ, the first three are given by Christ Himself and all
are set in the church by GOD, each person has one or more.
Compare 1Corinthians 12:28 & Ephesians 4:11 which member of the body are you?
Apostles
Prophets
Teachers (evangelist, pastor and teacher) Compare 1Cor. 12:28 with Eph. 4:11
Miracles
Healings (medical remedies)
Helps
Governments (of Latin origin, to steer) (figuratively) directorship (in the church)
Diversities of tongues
OFFICE: The ability, the way the Spirit works through us (The work to be done). Each member can hold one, or more or all offices, but not likely.
Romans 12
Prophecy
Ministry
Teaching
Exhorting
Giving
Ruling
Mercy
MANIFESTATION: The way the Spirit works in us. The Spirit works in each member in one or more of these ways.
1Corinthians. 12:1-10
Wisdom
Knowledge
Faith (given by GOD)
Healing (medical remedies)
Miracles
Prophecy
Discerning of spirits
Tongues
Interpretation of tongues

Eph. 4:11
There is only 3 member gifts here, Compare this with 1Cor. 12:28
Also there are only 4 ministries Gifts not 5

Members Gifts
Apostles
Prophets
Teacher which includes Evangelist, Sheppard and Teacher

Ministries
Shepherd and Teacher
Apostles
Prophets
Evangelist

The only 2 not mentioned here are Deacon and Elder\Bishop. The reason they are not mentioned here is they are given by the Church.

Deacons: Are to be chosen paying close attention to biblical qualifications.

Elder\Bishop: Elder is the man Bishop is the office. These also should be appointed, paying close attention to biblical qualifications. The Elders are to be appointed to the office of Bishop and these would be the pastors. Each having equal authority, they would be the Under Sheppard’s of the church. The Elders are the Elderly men in the Church not some young Preacher.
Exodus 17:8-16 is a picture of the body of Christ (the Church) in action.

Are the Spiritual Gifts still being given today?

Most Christians these days ignore these verses:

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
v13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Have we reached these points yet? If not, Jesus is still giving them today