Fully God and Fully Man, how does that work?

[GenemZ]

So you accept every anthropomorphism as being literal fact?

Not everything that is explained away as an anthropomorphism needs to be explained away when the answer is found.

Some have chosen the term 'anthropomorphism' because they see the two natures and can not figure out why.

The two natures of the Lord? Isn't that a literal fact? Well?

He always was the Son of God with two natures in union!

 

[disciple Clint]

Not everything that is explained away as an anthropomorphism needs to be explained away when the answer is found.

Some have chosen the term 'anthropomorphism' because they see the two natures and can not figure out why.

The two natures of the Lord? Isn't that a literal fact? Well?

He always was the Son of God with two natures in union!

Simply everything originates with God, so God already had a human nature but He unlike all of us was never limited to a human nature.

 

[Eloy Craft]

I've meditated on this. Jesus' humanity was assumed to His divinity from the moment of conception. This is the state of Glory that is the eternal life in Glory with God in heaven that is our intended end. Jesus' entered human life in that same state. He wasn't here to fulfill an earthly life and be with God in heaven like any other human life but to fulfill a heavenly purpose that required God to stoop down so low He entered human life and lived among His Chosen people.


He didn't come here to become our Savior. He came as our savior. His Saving acts began the moment of His conception..
Another thing about His divine nature relates to Baptism. Baptism is a means God provides for us to die with Christ. John Baptized because the Holy Spirit told him to. Ever wonder why? Immediately after Jesus received John's baptism the Holy Spirit ' drove' Jesus into the desert. Jesus wouldn't go there if not driven. This is how the Holy Spirit works when we are Baptized. The Holy Spirit was leading Jesus into John's life in the desert fasting and praying.
John iived a life of the greatest righteousness of any other man ever born. John's baptism made a straight way for hearts darkened by sin. His baptism was the means by which the Holy Spirit could lead others into John's righteousness just as He lead Jesus after receiving John's baptism.
John's baptism made a straight way to the Lord by leading hearts darkened by sin to repent. The fruit of John's Baptism was the ability to listen to Jesus and believe.
Jesus called the death He was about to suffer a Baptism. What life could possibly be above His? Who's life is Jesus Baptized into? Like John confused about Jesus receiving his Baptism asks " I should be Baptized by you".
I wondered is Jesus receiving Baptism into the Father? No, His death on the cross is a Baptism into His divine life and by that means His humanity could enter into the Glory He always had with the Father before His Incarnation. So He could sit fully human, fully God at the right hand of the Father in heaven.

 

[GenemZ]

Simply everything originates with God, so God already had a human nature but He unlike all of us was never limited to a human nature.

Clarification...

God always had a human nature in the Son of God.

Its what differentiates the Father from the Son!

 

[GenemZ]

I've meditated on this. Jesus' humanity was assumed to His divinity from the moment of conception.

Conception is only in reference to the body God provided by means of Mary.

For Jesus said that before Abraham was born He (his soul) was always existing with God.

"Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said: “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body
you prepared for me." Heb 10:5​

grace and peace!

 

[Eloy Craft]

Conception is only in reference to the body God provided by means of Mary.

Jesus' soul didn't always exist right?

 

[GenemZ]

Jesus' soul didn't always exist right?

Not so fast, please.... The Soul of Jesus existed *before* the Incarnation. Philiipians 2:6-8 tells us that he stepped down from being as God, and refused to take it back up, making himself to be as a man ( as a man being the Soul of the Lord God of Israel).

This came somewhat as a shock to me. So, I do not expect any difference with others. Here are passages from the OT that show the Lord God of Israel possessed two natures in union.

The nature of Deity is "spirit." Its not "soul."

Yet? We see in the OT (before the Incarnation) that The Lord God of Israel was possessing both Deity and a soul in union!

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14​

Jesus told us in John 4:23-24, that God is "spirit." Not soul.

In contrast to 'spirit' a soul is a different nature and essence than 'spirit.'


grace and peace .......

 

[disciple Clint]

Clarification...

God always had a human nature in the Son of God.

Its what differentiates the Father from the Son!

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all the same nature, one nature (God) 3 persons.

 

[GenemZ]

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all the same nature, one nature (God) 3 persons.

Explain how immutable omnipresent God can split Himself?

Jesus is God. He is God being communicated through a human Soul. Its God being communicated. But, God being communicated in a manner that the souls of men can relate to. Otherwise? No one could see God.



NIV
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God
and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
Jn 1:18

Amplified Bible
No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only
begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father,
He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where
He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]."
Jn 1:18


Notice how the Amplified Bible translated the deeper intent and meaning of the Greek.

"He has interpreted Him." ​

Interpreted? For without the humanity of Christ to interpret the Deity of God to us? We could never see God, as God can be known to man!

grace and peace ........

 

[GenemZ]

Jesus' soul didn't always exist right?

My pastor showed from the Greek that in Jn 1:1...


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"There always existed the Word - always was - and always will be. "

That means his soul was always being.

And, what took place with the Soul of God?

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son,
who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jn 1:14
​

If you are interested, that lesson is available on MP3 - no money will be asked for. The pastor refused to charge for his lessons. Those who wish to donate are free to. But, no one is to be refused the teaching of the Word of God. PM me if interested.

 

[disciple Clint]

Explain how immutable omnipresent God can split Himself?

Jesus is God. He is God being communicated through a human Soul. Its God being communicated. But, God being communicated in a manner that the souls of men can relate to. Otherwise? No one could see God.



NIV
No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God
and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known."
Jn 1:18

Amplified Bible
No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only
begotten God, Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father,
He has declared Him [He has revealed Him and brought Him out where
He can be seen; He has interpreted Him and He has made Him known]."
Jn 1:18


Notice how the Amplified Bible translated the deeper intent and meaning of the Greek.

"He has interpreted Him." ​

Interpreted? For without the humanity of Christ to interpret the Deity of God to us? We could never see God, as God can be known to man!

grace and peace ........

How is God splitting Himself in your view? God is simple He is not made of components, He is not in anyway split as you put it.

 

[GenemZ]

How is God splitting Himself in your view? God is simple He is not made of components, He is not in anyway split as you put it.

I just told you how. Now you ask me how?

And, he is not "splitting." God can not be split.

God and the Soul of Jesus Christ is God working through, so to speak, a Divine 'app' to reach man in a manner that men can relate to. The humanity side of Jesus is how God communicates to men, using His union of both Soul and Deity to bridge the gap that could not be bridged if it were only God with no Soul in union.

 

[disciple Clint]

I just told you how. Now you ask me how?

And, he is not "splitting." God can not be split.

God and the Soul of Jesus Christ is God working through, so to speak, a Divine 'app' to reach man in a manner that men can relate to. The humanity side of Jesus is how God communicates to men, using His union of both Soul and Deity to bridge the gap that could not be bridged if it were only God with no Soul in union.

So you are saying that God who after all made man does not know how to communicate with man without using the soul of a man? Come on, think about that. God does not have any problem getting His message to man through the Holy Spirit now does He? And the prophets communicated to man directly from God without the participation of Jesus, did they not? So maybe I am just not understanding what you are saying?

 

[GenemZ]

So you are saying that God who after all made man does not know how to communicate with man without using the soul of a man?

Not just expressing Himself by means of a soul. A soul that is always seeing all that a soul could ever see about God, for all eternity!

In other words? All we can ever know about God? Ever? Is already being fully known by the humanity of Jesus.

You can take forever trying to catch up to what He knows about God in His Soul. And? You could never end nor run out of things more to be known about God!All the God you could ever know is being already fully known by the Lord Jesus Christ!


[/QUOTE]Come on, think about that. God does not have any problem getting His message to man through the Holy Spirit now does He?[/QUOTE]

The Holy Spirit's ministry only wants to glorify Christ in us. The teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit guides us into all the truths concerning the word of God. And, the Word was made flesh and tabernacled amongst us! Jn 1:14

The Holy Spirit teaches us about Jesus Christ and transforms those maturing into the image of Christ.

And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." 2 Cor 3:18​

And the prophets communicated to man directly from God without the participation of Jesus, did they not? So maybe I am just not understanding what you are saying?

It was the prophets who were in connection with the Lord God of Israel via the Spirit. It was the Lord Jehovah of Israel who was having union with his soul, who was the pre-incarnate soul of Jesus!

Here is what some of the prophets had to say about their Lord God! Lord God who has both Deity and Soul!

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new.
Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not
reject you.'I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall
be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to
serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient because of the
trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
and anyone loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

Those passages speak of the pre-incarnate Christ whom the Spirit of God connected the prophets to! They we understanding the Soul of Jehovah who was communicating to them as men. As men who were prophets!

 

[disciple Clint]

Not just expressing Himself by means of a soul. A soul that is always seeing all that a soul could see about God, eternally.

In other words? All we can ever know about God? Ever? Is already being fully known by the humanity of Jesus. You can take forever trying to catch up to what He knows about God. And? It would never end nor run out of things more to be known about God!

Come on, think about that. God does not have any problem getting His message to man through the Holy Spirit now does He?[/QUOTE]

The Holy Spirit only wants to glorify Christ in us. The teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit guides us into all the truths concerning the word of God. And, the Word was made flesh and tabernacled amongst us! Jn 1:14 The Holy Spirit teaches us about Jesus Christ.




It was the prophets who were in connection with the Lord God of Israel. The Lord Jehovah who was having in union his soul of the pre-incarnate Jesus!

Here is what some of the prophets had to say about their Lord God!


'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new.
Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not
reject you.'I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall
be My people." Lev 26:10-12


And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to
serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient because of the
trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16


Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
and anyone loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5


Those passages speak of the pre-incarnate Christ whom the Spirit of God connected the prophets to! They we understanding the Soul of Jehovah who was communicating to them as men, men who were prophets![/QUOTE]
Once again you are attempting to split God into parts. God has ONE nature.

 

[GenemZ]

Once again you are attempting to split God into parts. God has ONE nature.

Yes! God IS one nature.

The Son is that same one nature.. plus another nature in union with that one nature of God!

Your getting stumped because you have closed your mind and have limited things God can do in your preconceived notion.

 

[GenemZ]

Come on, think about that. God does not have any problem getting His message to man through the Holy Spirit now does He?

Read what the prophets said!!!!!!!

READ! You are blanking out?

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new.
Moreover, I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not
reject you.'I will also walk among you and be your God, and you shall
be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to
serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient because of the
trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one,
and anyone loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

God's essence in NOT Soul! Its "spirit." John 4:23-24

Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers
will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the
kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers
must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”​

Jesus did not say... God is Soul!


LOOK! Two natures!

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to
serve Jehovah, so that his soul became impatient because of the
trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16

​

grace and peace! .........

 

[disciple Clint]

Yes! God IS one nature.

The Son is that same one nature.. plus another nature in union with that one nature of God!

Your getting stumped because you have closed your mind and have limited things God can do in your preconceived notion.

No I am simply trying to change a mind that is closed, so I will stop, when the time is right it will become clear.

 

[GenemZ]

No I am simply trying to change a mind that is closed, so I will stop, when the time is right it will become clear.

Yes it will become clear. That you have been teaching there is no Trinity.

 

[Eloy Craft]

My pastor showed from the Greek that in Jn 1:1...


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"There always existed the Word - always was - and always will be. "

That means his soul was always being.

And, what took place with the Soul of God?

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son,
who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." Jn 1:14
​

If you are interested, that lesson is available on MP3 - no money will be asked for. The pastor refused to charge for his lessons. Those who wish to donate are free to. But, no one is to be refused the teaching of the Word of God. PM me if interested.

I disagree entirely. Souls animate bodies. Angels aren't souls neither is God. Until the Incarnation.

Jesus' soul was created at His conception just like yours and mine.