Fully God and Fully Man, how does that work?

[Neogaia777]

When God in the OT says there is none beside(s) Him, He is the only true God, does not change, stays consistent, etc, etc, etc, He is not talking about the Trinity, but is directly challenging and addressing all the false god worship/idolization going on at the time, etc, and is not talking at all about the Trinity yet or at that time, etc...

And if you cannot clearly see how God in and of the OT was not always 100% fully omniscient from the very beginning, but had to "learn" and "grow" and "change" over time, then maybe you are too steeped in man's ideas or your own ideas to see it, in which case I feel sorry for you, for it is the key to "just about everything", etc, and in knowing "Them" and Christ, etc, for it was Jesus very own idea originally, which he gambled on, paid the price for, and/or but we won, etc...

There being a higher God than that One from which we all came, etc...

He could have came to this knowledge or theory by process of reason, or he could have been shown it by supernatural means, but either way, he was willing to stake his life on it, and maybe even his eternal life/spirit/soul on it, and I think it was proven to be completely accurate/correct by the proof of his resurrection, and what took place with him after his resurrection, in the end, etc...

God Bless!

 

[The Liturgist]

And if you cannot clearly see how God in and of the OT was not always 100% fully omniscient from the very beginning, but had to "learn" and "grow" and "change" over time, then maybe you are too steeped in man's ideas or your own ideas to see it, in which case I feel sorry for you, for it is the key to "just about everything", etc, and in knowing "Them" and Christ, etc, for it was Jesus very own idea originally, which he gambled on and we won, etc.

The scriptural verses in question do not support your interpretation.

God is perfect, and has always been. The Bible says that He is perfect. Perfection is timeless and therefore immutable. To admit growth, learning or change in God is a severe theological error known as Process Theology.

 

[Neogaia777]

The scriptural verses in question do not support your interpretation.

God is perfect, and has always been. The Bible says that He is perfect. Perfection is timeless and therefore immutable. To admit growth, learning or change in God is a severe theological error known as Process Theology.

Jesus learned obedience by the things He suffered (and this truth I am talking about here)...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Let me ask you this then?

Whose wrath did Jesus take upon himself on the cross and "why", etc...?

God Bless!

 

[The Liturgist]

Let me ask you this then?

Whose wrath did Jesus take upon himself on the cross and "why", etc...?

God Bless!

The short answer is that He didn’t. He died to trample down death by death, and to show us what it means to be human, and then he rose from the dead.

He was also obedient from birth; there is no support in the canonical scriptures for the idea that Jesus was disobedient and had to learn obedience.

 

[Neogaia777]

It pleased Him (He derived pleasure from it) in bruising Him and killing Him and crushing Him (Jesus)...

Who is it referring to here and "why", etc...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The short answer is that He didn’t. He died to trample down death by death, and to show us what it means to be human, and then he rose from the dead.

He was also obedient from birth; there is no support in the canonical scriptures for the idea that Jesus was disobedient and had to learn obedience.

Both those scriptures are there, sorry, but Jesus and I (and the Spirit) are right and you are wrong, sorry...

One cannot just discount the scriptures that are clearly there, just because they don't fit in with your own ideas in your own mind, etc...

In order to get at the real true truth one must accept the whole counsel of God and not just the pieces and parts one likes, or else does not like, etc, not the way it works, sorry, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Now Jesus did show us the Love of the Father, which was different from the Love of God the Spirit at that time, but was not anymore afterwards, etc, and He (Jesus) did "ascend" and go to where the Father was to prepare places for us until He should return (supposedly), etc...

The Spirit was not able to go with Him at that time, but that will all change and be different when Jesus comes back, etc...

God Bless!

 

[The Liturgist]

Both those scriptures are there, sorry, but Jesus and I (and the Spirit) are right and you are wrong, sorry...

One cannot just discount the scriptures that are clearly there, just because they don't fit in with your own ideas in your own mind, etc...

In order to get at the real true truth one must accept the whole counsel of God and not just the pieces and parts one likes, or else does not like, etc, not the way it works, sorry, etc...

God Bless!

I am not discounting any canonical scriptures. The only document I know of that suggests our Lord was disobedient in His youth is the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which I view as disgusting, horrific and blasphemous based on its contents, and which has been linked to the Manichaeans, a heretical sect originating in the third century, and which has always been rejected by the Christian Church. It is beyond the realm of “apocryphal” and in the realm of “texts originating in a non-Christian cult”, like the Book of Mormon, which I also reject.

 

[Neogaia777]

I am not discounting any canonical scriptures. The only document I know of that suggests our Lord was disobedient in His youth is the Infancy Gospel of Thomas, which I view as disgusting, horrific and blasphemous based on its contents, and which has been linked to the Manichaeans, a heretical sect originating in the third century, and which has always been rejected by the Christian Church. It is beyond the realm of “apocryphal” and in the realm of “texts originating in a non-Christian cult”, like the Book of Mormon, which I also reject.

Hebrews 5:8, you telling me you don't know that one???

Or do you just overlook it for whatever it is you prefer, etc...?

I would suggest you spend a lot less time on man's wisdom, or the wisdom of man, and more on God's Wisdom, or the pure unadulterated milk (and meat) of God's Word, etc...

That being said, I do think it was a certain kind of obedience though, like being obedient to death, or the cross, etc, at least at that time, etc, (Philippians 2:8) (Context: Philippians 2:5-11) to fully carry out the/his mission/plan at that time, etc, one of showing us the Father's Love at that time, and I don't think he ever "sinned", or was ever "sinful" ever in his life ever, etc...

We know he was struggling with it in the Garden of Gethsemane, etc... (Matthew 26:36-26) (Mark 14:32-42)...

But once he "set his face", he set his face, etc, and he carried it out to the very end, etc...

The things he had suffered in his life up to that point had prepared him for it, and to make the right choice and decision right down to the bitter end, etc...

He was also "made perfect" by the decision, and the things he suffered in his life also, etc... (Hebrews 5:8-9) (Full Context: Hebrews 5)...

None of us could have ever done it, and can't do it now, etc...

If and/or when we ever are or were, etc, faced with the same, etc...

It took a "will" way beyond our normal wills, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

And I know very little of the Gnostic, so-called "gospels", etc, or any other "heretical" teachings/texts, and do not use them for what I know, etc, just God's Word only, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Let me ask you this then?

Whose wrath did Jesus take upon himself on the cross and "why", etc...?

God Bless!

It pleased Him (He derived pleasure from it) in bruising Him and killing Him and crushing Him (Jesus)...

Who is it referring to here and "why", etc...?

God Bless!

And since you seem unable to answer, then let me answer for you, etc...

First off, Jesus took God the Spirits (God in and of the OT's) wrath (upon himself), etc...

The "why" was for us, etc, and was in place of us, etc, and was not anything Jesus did (especially "wrong") specifically, etc...

He became our/the scapegoat for us, etc...

And why God the Spirit became pleased, or was pleased to crush him/kill him (Jesus) was because He saw what would happen after "Jesus plan", etc, and God the Spirit was more than happy to agree with it, etc, which also implies that maybe He also "did not see" or know before that also, etc...

Satan had taken over by Jesus time, and God the Spirit needed a (new) way and plan to defeat him, and also a way to fix and/or redeem all of Mankind and Creation also, which Jesus provided for Him, and did, etc...

This was what pleased Him, etc; God the Spirit and/or God in and of the OT, etc...

And, in a way, Jesus even became even His Savior as well, etc...

And He did "change", God the Spirit did, etc, and did become the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Christ afterwards, etc...

This plan would not be carried out immediately however, at least not all of it anyway, but would seal it all for a future time and day/date, which was what greatly pleased God the Holy Spirit, etc, because He saw it afterward, etc...

And we (all) await the full and complete fulfillment now, etc, including God the Spirit from afterward, and up to now, etc...

Which will only come to it's full and complete completion only when Jesus comes back, and/or returns, etc...

He (Jesus) went to where the Highest God the Father both is, and was, and always has been, etc, with the promise of returning, and has left us here with God the Spirit, to deal with Satan, in the meantime, etc...

And God the Spirit has always been here with us, because none of that ever changed, but just only the He is the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Jesus Christ now, etc...

And He (God the Spirit/Holy Spirit) does not dwell in any kind of temples made with human hands now, but we are His holy temples now, etc, and with Him inside of us now, this is how we are to now deal with the enemy right now, until Jesus Christ shall return, etc...

Come oh Jesus come...

And come soon, etc...

We are all eagerly awaiting, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

And since you seem unable to answer, then let me answer for you, etc...

First off, Jesus took God the Spirits (God in and of the OT's) wrath (upon himself), etc...

The "why" was for us, etc, and was in place of us, etc, and was not anything Jesus did (especially "wrong") specifically, etc...

And why God the Spirit became pleased, or was pleased to crush him/kill him (Jesus) was because He saw what would happen after "Jesus plan", etc, and God the Spirit was more than happy to agree with it, etc, which also implies that maybe he also "did not see" or know before that also, etc...

Satan had taken over by Jesus time, and God the Spirit needed a (new) way and plan to defeat him, and also a way to fix and/or redeem all of Mankind and Creation also, which Jesus provided for Him, and did, etc...

This was what pleased Him, etc; God the Spirit and/or God in and of the OT, etc...

And, in a way, Jesus even became even His Savior as well, etc...

And He did "change", God the Spirit did, etc, and did become the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Christ afterwards, etc...

This plan would not be carried out immediately however, at least not all of it anyway, but would seal it all for a future time and day/date, which was what greatly pleased God the Holy Spirit, etc, because He saw it afterward, etc...

And we (all) await the full and complete fulfillment now, etc, including God the Spirit from afterward, and up to now, etc...

Which will only come to it's full and complete completion only when Jesus comes back, and/or returns, etc...

He (Jesus) went to where the Highest God the Father both is, and was, and always has been, etc, with the promise of returning, and has left us here with God the Spirit, to deal with Satan, in the meantime, etc...

And God the Spirit has always been here with us, because none of that ever changed, but just only the He is the Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Jesus Christ now, etc...

And He (God the Spirit/Holy Spirit) does not dwell in any kind of temples made with human hands now, but we are His holy temples now, etc, and with Him inside of us now, this is how we are to now deal with the enemy right now, until Jesus Christ shall return, etc...

Come oh Jesus come...

And come soon, etc...

We are all eagerly awaiting, etc...

God Bless!

At the cross, and in death, God the Spirit's Spirit, and Jesus Christ's soul and Spirit became so intertwined that they quite literally became "One" for a moment and for an instant, only to become separated almost immediately again when Jesus Christ was resurrected, and ascended, etc...

This was to give them both a taste of what they would be, or would become like, upon Jesus return, but Jesus had to go to where the Father was, and God the Spirit, or God the Holy Spirit, could not go with him yet or at that time, etc...

The whole story is a beautiful story really, and my only wish is that you both would and/or could, both see it and experience it for yourselves only, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

At the cross, and in death, God the Spirit's Spirit, and Jesus Christ's soul and Spirit became so intertwined that they quite literally became "One" for a moment and for an instant, only to become separated almost immediately again when Jesus Christ was resurrected, and ascended, etc...

This was to give them both a taste of what they would be, or would become like, upon Jesus return, but Jesus had to go to where the Father was, and God the Spirit, or God the Holy Spirit, could not go with him yet or at that time, etc...

The whole story is a beautiful story really, and my only wish is that you both would and/or could, both see it and experience it, etc...

God Bless!

God the Spirit's great wrath, and jealousy, and bitterness, and anger, and resentment, and all He was going through emotionally at that time, had to be taken out on someone to be or become fully satisfied at that time, it was a requirement before He could change and/or grow and move on at that time, etc, so it was taken out on Jesus at the cross at that time, but God the Spirit was forever changed by it afterwards, into now being the Holy Spirit/Spirit of Christ now, etc... or at, or after, that time, etc...

Anyway, I was just thinking about some of the kind of "questions" that might come up with some of you in what all I just said, etc...?

But if you have any more about what I just said, then feel free to ask me, OK, and I will do my very best to try and answer all of them the best I can, OK...

Bye for now...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Just thought of another one...

This all is, was, and still is, will be, continues to be, etc, all the Father's will and plan all along, etc...

To that One, all is, or already has/is, "happened" (past tense) from the very beginning (to it's very ending) all along, etc...

It is quite literally "impossible" for anything at all ever, to not ever go according that One's will and/or plan/plans at all ever, etc...

To Him, or that One, all has already happened or taken place already, long, long before it at all ever, ever even began ever, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The scriptural verses in question do not support your interpretation.

God is perfect, and has always been. The Bible says that He is perfect. Perfection is timeless and therefore immutable. To admit growth, learning or change in God is a severe theological error known as Process Theology.

There are many, many things in which one can be "perfect" in, of which Jesus Christ and God the Spirit are "many", etc, but just maybe not always in "all things" always, etc, which is where you are probably erring, etc...

God is described as being perfect in many things in the Bible, but just maybe not always everything, or all things always, etc, and the word "immutable" is not ever found anywhere in the Bible/Scriptures, but is just only a part of man's ideas/theories/teachings/assumptions only, etc...

And for that matter, neither is "beyond time" or "timeless" either, but is yet just another one of man's ideas/assumptions/theories, etc, because God the Son and God the Spirit, especially together, or combined, etc, are God the Father "in time with us", etc...

God Bless!

 

[AFrazier]

If we accept and acknowledge that Jesus is God, then Christ taking our sins upon himself, taking responsibility for them, etc., equates directly to God himself taking our sins upon himself, taking responsibility for them, etc. If God has sin (viz. is responsible for, if not guilty of) to be reckoned, having taken responsibility for sin on our account, then he, being beholden to his own law, must die and suffer being cursed. But God, being a divine spirit, can't suffer death, except that he first becomes mortal. Further, the law proscribes that to expiate sin, there must be a sin offering of an unblemished lamb.

Ergo, the Word went forth from God's mouth—an actual piece of God himself transformed to flesh and blood. He was the Lamb of God. Or more precisely, God's Lamb, being in the genitive. People so often mistake the Lamb of God as being an offering for us. In actual fact, it was an offering for God, made under the law for the expiation of the sins for which God took responsibility.

To be a lamb without blemish, he had to live as a man, and live blamelessly. So God the Father spoke out God the Son, who came to us as the Son of Man, destined to die as God's Lamb.

That is the relationship as I understand it.

 

[Neogaia777]

God the Spirit did not want to take out all His wrath, anger, and all He was going through emotionally towards man at the time, on Jesus, etc, and in fact, up to that point, He had been doing everything He could for that not to have to happen and/or be carried out, etc, but eventually, and after many failures in the OT, He knew it had to and must happen and/or be carried out, etc, because Jesus was His Son also, and He did not want to have to do that to His own Son, etc, so He did everything He could in the OT to try and avoid it, and/or having to do it, or prevent it from happening, and/or having to happen, etc, but of course eventually it did have to happen, and what "pleased Him about it" was only the end that He saw after it, etc, but He didn't want to do it and did everything He could to avoid it, etc...

But the Father God knew it was going to have to happen all along, etc...

Because He knew everything from the very beginning already, and everything in-between down to it's very specific ending(s) from the very beginning already, but God the Spirit did not always have this full knowledge always, etc, and neither did God the Son fully, and/or Jesus while He was here with us as a Man fully either always etc, but both had faith in, or came to have faith in, the Father's plan, and did it "together", etc...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

God the Spirit did not want to take out all His wrath, anger, and all He was going through emotionally towards man at the time, on Jesus, etc, and in fact, up to that point, He had been doing everything He could for that not to have to happen and/or be carried out, etc, but eventually, and after many failures in the OT, He knew it had to and must happen and/or be carried out, etc, because Jesus was His Son also, and He did not want to have to do that to His own Son, etc, so He did everything He could in the OT to try and avoid it, and/or having to do it, or prevent it from happening, and/or having to happen, etc, but of course eventually it did have to happen, and what "pleased Him about it" was only the end that He saw after it, etc, but He didn't want to do it and did everything He could to avoid it, etc...

But the Father God knew it was going to have to happen all along, etc...

Because He knew everything from the very beginning already, and everything in-between down to it's very specific ending(s) from the very beginning already, but God the Spirit did not always have this full knowledge always, etc, and neither did God the Son fully, and/or Jesus while He was here with us as a Man fully either always etc, but both had faith in, or came to have faith in, the Father's plan, etc...

God Bless!

God the Spirit changed once He was able to jettison all that emotional baggage, etc, and that is how He is now with us now until Jesus comes back, etc...

God Bless!

 

[disciple Clint]

God the Spirit did not want to take out all His wrath, anger, and all He was going through emotionally towards man at the time, on Jesus, etc, and in fact, up to that point, He had been doing everything He could for that not to have to happen and/or be carried out, etc, but eventually, and after many failures in the OT, He knew it had to and must happen and/or be carried out, etc, because Jesus was His Son also, and He did not want to have to do that to His own Son, etc, so He did everything He could in the OT to try and avoid it, and/or having to do it, or prevent it from happening, and/or having to happen, etc, but of course eventually it did have to happen, and what "pleased Him about it" was only the end that He saw after it, etc, but He didn't want to do it and did everything He could to avoid it, etc...

But the Father God knew it was going to have to happen all along, etc...

Because He knew everything from the very beginning already, and everything in-between down to it's very specific ending(s) from the very beginning already, but God the Spirit did not always have this full knowledge always, etc, and neither did God the Son fully, and/or Jesus while He was here with us as a Man fully either always etc, but both had faith in, or came to have faith in, the Father's plan, and did it "together", etc...

God Bless!

you were doing ok for the most part until you got to right here:

God the Spirit did not always have this full knowledge always, etc, and neither did God the Son fully,

that statement denies the Divinity of the Holy Spirit and God the Son ( Jesus )