Full Preterism-Where is the scriptural evidence?

[parousia70]

That would be the case if we were talking about a mere mortal.

Luk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.​

Yet the comparison to a local atmospheric condition as witnessed BY "Mere Mortals" is indeed being made.

That you don't particularly like the comparison is evident, but it doesn't change the fact that the comparison is being made.

 

[Evergreen48]

Where is the scriptural instruction to Interpret language like Stars falling, sun darkening, heaven rolling up like a scroll Locally and Figuratively when it is used to describe already fulfilled National Judgments in the OT, but suddenly apply a polar opposite "literal, universal" interpretation to the exact same language when it is found in the NT?

I am afraid that I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase? Thanks . . . .

 

[Der Alte]

Yet the comparison to a local atmospheric condition as witnessed BY "Mere Mortals" is indeed being made.

That you don't particularly like the comparison is evident, but it doesn't change the fact that the comparison is being made.

You are the one trying to make the comparison and I reject your argument scripturally.

 

[parousia70]

You are the one trying to make the comparison and I reject your argument scripturally.

Scripture Makes the comparison. I merely affirm it.
You are of course free to reject it.

 

[parousia70]

I am afraid that I don't understand your question. Could you rephrase? Thanks . . . .

Sure.

In Isaiah 34 we have a description of the fall of Edom, notice the language that is used:

Isaiah 34:3-5 (NKJV) Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood. 4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree. 5 "For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

This is Biblical language to describe the fall of a nation. It should be clear that it is not to be taken literally.
Lets look at one other OT use of this language:

Nahum 1 (NKJV) The burden against Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkoshite. 2 God is jealous, and the LORD avenges; The LORD avenges and is furious. The LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies; 3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked. The LORD has His way In the whirlwind and in the storm, And the clouds are the dust of His feet. 4 He rebukes the sea and makes it dry, And dries up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither, And the flower of Lebanon wilts. 5 The mountains quake before Him, The hills melt, And the earth heaves at His presence, Yes, the world and all who dwell in it.

The subject of this judgement is Nineveh, not the physical world. This is the way God describes the fall of a nation.

So back to my original question you asked me to rephrase.
If this language, when used in the OT describes the localized judgement of God on individual nations, why, when we come to the New Testament, do we make the exact same language be the destruction of the universe?

 

[Der Alte]

Yet the comparison to a local atmospheric condition as witnessed BY "Mere Mortals" is indeed being made.

That you don't particularly like the comparison is evident, but it doesn't change the fact that the comparison is being made.

A metaphor, simile, analogy etc. is not to be pressed too far.

Job 37:3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.​

 

[parousia70]

A metaphor, simile, analogy etc. is not to be pressed too far.

Exactly. Which Is a great reason not to press it beyond the plain everyday understanding of the localized atmospheric phenomena known as 'lightning'.

 

[Der Alte]

Exactly. Which Is a great reason not to press it beyond the plain everyday understanding of the localized atmospheric phenomena known as 'lightning'.

Wrong! That ain't the way it works. The appearance of the son of man in the heavens was not exactly like lightning. He was not crackling static electricity, intermittently flashing, striking the ground with loud booms. Nor was the son of God restricted to the limitations of earthly physical phenomenon.The verse does not say and we cannot assume that the Lord's coming will be exactly like lightning in every respect, to include limited to a limited local area, as you are trying to do.

 

[JesusMartyr]

Jesus said it, that settles it for me. Over and over He said He would return within THAT generation....and even told His disciples that some of them standing there wouldn't die before they saw Him coming in His kingdom. He told the High Priest Caiphas that he would see Him coming on the clouds with glory. He told the disciples that He sent out to the cities of Israel that they wouldn't finish going through the towns of Israel before He came back. He said that the time of punishment upon the Jews when the temple was destroyed (in 70AD) was going to fulfill ALL that had been written.

He also said that UNTIL heaven and earth passed away that not one jot or tittle would pass away from the law. Do you believe the law has passed away? If so, then it happened AFTER heaven and earth passed away according to Jesus.

I could go on.....but I won't. I simply believe what Jesus said and take Him for His word. If we don't understand the NATURE of His coming, kingdom, body, resurrection, rapture etc.....that is OUR problem. But I won't change, re-interpret, pull out of context or alter the clear words of Jesus to fit into a preconceived idea of those things. I changed MY thinking and beliefs to match the teachings of Jesus.

Then once I began to let the OT prophets interpret the NT prophets...it was clear. Then you can understand what was meant by "heaven and earth", "olive trees", "beasts", "no more sea", "two witnesses", "Gog and Magog", "great harlot", "mystery Babylon" , "Armageddon" etc. etc.

Therefore, I am a preterist. I believe Jesus. He is here now, and has been since the end of the generation that crucified Him. He is just like Paul said "The King, eternal, immortal INVISIBLE...the only True God". He is reigning within His eternal spiritual kingdom in the hearts of men made righteous by His blood. He is, as the bible says "A life giving SPIRIT"

..."and of the increase of His kingdom there will be no end". Hallelujah!!

(As I said before, I only have access to a computer occasionally. This is my short answer. Blessings....)

Of course all these things are true and scripturally plain and perfect to me as I read the Word... this is what a "preterist" is?
This is the most comprehensive understanding of scriptures I've seen on this website so far, and it is called "preterist"? How strange... and here in the "unorthodox" place...
So it seems that Truth is being shoved into a corner with an "unorthodox" label on it... how sad for the world.
I shall read more here of "preterist", they seem to have something of interest, something missing on this site...

 

[A New World]

For me there is much scriptural evidence for Full Preterism.

For starters:
When I read Moses and how he warned Israel of her latter days (Deut. 31:29), he taught the people the song of Moses to be remembered throughout her generations (Deut. 32).
He told them that they would become a faithless, crooked and perverse generation (Deut. 32:5,20).

Jesus identified His contemporaries as "faithless" and "perverse".
Later, Peter identified his contemporaries as "perverse" (Acts 2:40) and Paul as "crooked and perverse" (Phil. 2:15) just as Moses prophesied.

My conclusion: When Jesus said, "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place" (Mt. 24:34), it's clear that He's referring to those living in the first century AD.

 

[JesusMartyr]

Yes, these things are true. All things have been fulfilled, as earlier quoted. So what are people still standing around gazing up into heaven for as though "something else" is going to happen? Go to that upper room and RECEIVE CHRIST NOW and be filled with His Holy Spirit, just as in Acts chapters 1 and 2 and KNOW the power of His Coming while it is called To Day

Everything promised in the O.T. has come to pass. Jesus Came and is with us forever. He came as recorded in Acts 2 as the Holy Spirit. This is obvious, unless a person is poisoned into blindness by the trinity or modern 'dispensational' theology.
Jesus also Came as promised in vengeance as well, destroying Jerusalem in AD 70, as described clearly by the prophets, by Jesus in the Gospels, and by Jesus to John in the Isle of Patmos in A.D. 68-69 so that the reiterated warning could be presented to James and the Jerusalem Church to prepare them for the burning of the harlot city of abomination aka "mystery Babylon". Just as promised in the Olivet Prophecy.

These things are plain to me out of scriptures, as I have no other handbook or theology to influence my thoughts. I'm only led by the revelation of Christ in His Word.
So when I see that the label "preterist" is upon folk who appear to agree with the Word, I am most intrigued indeed! I just hope they aren't Trinitarians, so that I'll have someone to fellowship with! Please tell me you worship Jesus and not the trinity gods, anyone?

 

[JesusMartyr]

Wrong! That ain't the way it works. The appearance of the son of man in the heavens was not exactly like lightning. He was not crackling static electricity, intermittently flashing, striking the ground with loud booms. Nor was the son of God restricted to the limitations of earthly physical phenomenon.The verse does not say and we cannot assume that the Lord's coming will be exactly like lightning in every respect, to include limited to a limited local area, as you are trying to do.

In the Greek, the word isn't "lightning" as a lightning strike.

Jesus' Coming is as the Light shining from the east to the west. It is all about the Coming of the Lord as IN THE DAY DAWNING in our hearts, as recorded in Malachi. JESUS is as the SUN RISING (which rises in the east) with Healing in His wings.

When we are "enlightened" by the Holy Spirit of Christ in us, this is a fulfillment of the meaning.

It is also a fulfillment of the meaning in the spreading of the Gospel down through History, as Light shining from the east to the west. As we've seen the Gospel message spread through the world from the eastern part of the world clear over into the west of the Americas, and uttermost parts of the planet, the Gospel message spread by US, his "angels" (messengers), thus is the word of God being fulfilled.

Most important, avoid those who introduce a different gospel than this, who teach Jesus has yet to come. It is a jewish death doctrine, exactly the same as those unbelieving Jews who killed Jesus over. They thought His Kingdom was going to come in some "observable" physical manner. They were dead wrong;

(Luk 17:20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

(Luk 17:21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

(Luk 17:22) And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

(Luk 17:23) And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

(Luk 17:24) For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

 

[Der Alte]

In the Greek, the word isn't "lightning" as a lightning strike.

Here is the meaning of the word translated lightning in Luke 17:24.

G796 ἀστραπή astrapē as-trap-ay'
From G797; lightning; by analogy glare: - lightning, bright shining.​

Jesus' Coming is as the Light shining from the east to the west. It is all about the Coming of the Lord as IN THE DAY DAWNING in our hearts, as recorded in Malachi. JESUS is as the SUN RISING (which rises in the east) with Healing in His wings.

When we are "enlightened" by the Holy Spirit of Christ in us, this is a fulfillment of the meaning.

It is also a fulfillment of the meaning in the spreading of the Gospel down through History, as Light shining from the east to the west. As we've seen the Gospel message spread through the world from the eastern part of the world clear over into the west of the Americas, and uttermost parts of the planet, the Gospel message spread by US, his "angels" (messengers), thus is the word of God being fulfilled.

All this is false because it is based on your false understanding of the word ἀστραπή. Here is another verse which clearly shows the correct translation, "lightning."

Rev 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings [ἀστραπή] and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.​

Most important, avoid those who introduce a different gospel than this, who teach Jesus has yet to come. It is a jewish death doctrine, exactly the same as those unbelieving Jews who killed Jesus over. They thought His Kingdom was going to come in some "observable" physical manner. They were dead wrong;

(Luk 17:20) And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

(Luk 17:21) Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

(Luk 17:22) And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

(Luk 17:23) And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

(Luk 17:24) For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Your understanding of all this is based on a false interpretation of the word, ἀστραπή.

 

[Der Alte]

Yes, these things are true. All things have been fulfilled, as earlier quoted. So what are people still standing around gazing up into heaven for as though "something else" is going to happen? Go to that upper room and RECEIVE CHRIST NOW and be filled with His Holy Spirit, just as in Acts chapters 1 and 2 and KNOW the power of His Coming while it is called To Day

Everything promised in the O.T. has come to pass. Jesus Came and is with us forever. He came as recorded in Acts 2 as the Holy Spirit. This is obvious, unless a person is poisoned into blindness by the trinity or modern 'dispensational' theology.
Jesus also Came as promised in vengeance as well, destroying Jerusalem in AD 70, as described clearly by the prophets, by Jesus in the Gospels, and by Jesus to John in the Isle of Patmos in A.D. 68-69 so that the reiterated warning could be presented to James and the Jerusalem Church to prepare them for the burning of the harlot city of abomination aka "mystery Babylon". Just as promised in the Olivet Prophecy.

These things are plain to me out of scriptures, as I have no other handbook or theology to influence my thoughts. I'm only led by the revelation of Christ in His Word.
So when I see that the label "preterist" is upon folk who appear to agree with the Word, I am most intrigued indeed! I just hope they aren't Trinitarians, so that I'll have someone to fellowship with! Please tell me you worship Jesus and not the trinity gods, anyone?

The destruction of Jerusalem was a literal historical event. When did these events literally happen?

1. the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [Not the Roman army. DA]
2. Immediately after the tribulation of those days
3. shall the sun be darkened, and
4. the moon shall not give her light, and
5. the stars shall fall from heaven, and
6. the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
7. then shall appear the sign of the Son of man [Not the Roman army. DA] in heaven: and then shall
8. all the tribes of the earth mourn, and
9. they shall see the Son of man [Not the Roman army. DA] coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
10. And he shall send his angels
11. with a great sound of a trumpet, and
12. they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:27-31
(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

 

[A New World]

Others have already referred to the language of Isaiah 13 and the similarity with Mt. 24:29-31. If you haven't already, please read Isaiah 13.

Isaiah prophesied the judgment of Babylon. God would command His mighty warriors to execute His anger on the enemy of Israel. It would be a "day of the LORD" to "lay the land desolate" and "destroy its sinners from it." He would gather the nations together which the writer describes as "A sound of the uproar of kingdoms." This is similar to Rev. 16:14.

Notice it was The Lord Who was "mustering the army for battle." They would be the "instruments of indignation." The desolation would come "as destruction from the Almighty."

Also notice the figurative language: "Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt," and "They will writhe like a woman in labor."

Then Isaiah continues with the apocalyptic, figurative language: "For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light." And: "Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger."

How would the judgment of God against Babylon occur in which He would make the land desolate and "exterminate its sinners from it"?

Isaiah explains: "Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold."

We now know the Medes and the Persians fulfilled the prophecy.

In the New Testament, Jesus was clearly using the same apocalyptic language to teach the coming judgment of God on the terminal generation of the Old Covenant age: "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." (Matthew 24:29 NASB)

Once again there would be a Day of The Lord in which God would command His mighty warriors to execute His anger on the enemy of His people. He would destroy the kingdom, which had become a harlot. Her desolation would come as He gathered the nations against her.

This judgment would be in fulfillment of His promise made to Old Covenant Israel through her own prophets (Deut. 32:20-24; Is. 65:12-15).

We now know that He sent the Romans with a coalition of nations, to make her land desolate and destroy it's sinners from it.

Just as with God's judgment on Babylon by the Medes, the judgment on Old Covenant Israel by the Romans would be described as the sun being darkened, the moon not giving it's light, and the power of the heavens being shaken!

The judgments of Babylon and Jerusalem are both past (Preterist) events not future (Futurist).

 

[A New World]

The destruction of Jerusalem was a literal historical event. When did these events literally happen?

1. the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [Not the Roman army. DA]
2. Immediately after the tribulation of those days
3. shall the sun be darkened, and
4. the moon shall not give her light, and
5. the stars shall fall from heaven, and
6. the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
7. then shall appear the sign of the Son of man [Not the Roman army. DA] in heaven: and then shall
8. all the tribes of the earth mourn, and
9. they shall see the Son of man [Not the Roman army. DA] coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
10. And he shall send his angels
11. with a great sound of a trumpet, and
12. they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:27-31
(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

[/

1. The coming of the Son of man would be known by the entire known world. The Son coming in judgment of Old Covenant Jerusalem was certainly known throughout the Roman Empire.

2. John and his audiences were experiencing "the tribulation": "I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." (Rev. 1:9)

3-6. Answered in my previous post.

7-9. The promised judgment on Jerusalem was "the sign of the Son of man" who was "in heaven." Coming on the "clouds of heaven with power and great glory" was also fulfilled as Jerusalem was destroyed. Just as God had "come on the clouds" in the OT as a demonstration of His power and glory (Is. 19), He did so again in AD 70.

10-12. God's messengers (angels) would proclaim the gospel of the kingdom (a great sound of trumpet) and the elect were gathered from all the world (the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other).

A possible alternative: At the sound of the last trumpet angels would gather all the righteous dead and living saints and usher them into the presence of God. According to Daniel this would occur when the power of the holy people was completely shattered (Daniel 12:7). Their power was in their covenant with God. It ended at their judgment in AD 70.

 

[A New World]

JesusMartyr,
"These things are plain to me out of scriptures, as I have no other handbook or theology to influence my thoughts. I'm only led by the revelation of Christ in His Word.
So when I see that the label "preterist" is upon folk who appear to agree with the Word, I am most intrigued indeed! I just hope they aren't Trinitarians, so that I'll have someone to fellowship with! Please tell me you worship Jesus and not the trinity gods, anyone?"

I agree that the scriptures should be viewed as the sole test for orthodoxy. I have also arrived at a Full Preterist position through the scriptures alone.

I don't think you and I should be denied fellowship because of an incomplete understanding of God. I have never met anyone who can completely explain the trinity. But, to dismiss it as a possible concept contained in the scriptures is like an atheist dismissing any possibility of there being a divine Creator. The concept can't be rightfully eliminated.

I'm not settled completely on the issue, but I find myself in good company.

Thanks for your well reasoned responses.

 

[Der Alte]

Others have already referred to the language of Isaiah 13 and the similarity with Mt. 24:29-31. If you haven't already, please read Isaiah 13.

Isaiah prophesied the judgment of Babylon. God would command His mighty warriors to execute His anger on the enemy of Israel. It would be a "day of the LORD" to "lay the land desolate" and "destroy its sinners from it." He would gather the nations together which the writer describes as "A sound of the uproar of kingdoms." This is similar to Rev. 16:14.

Notice it was The Lord Who was "mustering the army for battle." They would be the "instruments of indignation." The desolation would come "as destruction from the Almighty."

Also notice the figurative language: [Figurative language in one place does not prove figruative language in another place! DA] "Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt," and "They will writhe like a woman in labor."

Then Isaiah continues with the apocalyptic, figurative language: "For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light." And: "Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the LORD of hosts In the day of His burning anger."

How would the judgment of God against Babylon occur in which He would make the land desolate and "exterminate its sinners from it"?

Isaiah explains: "Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold."

We now know the Medes and the Persians fulfilled the prophecy.

In the New Testament, Jesus was clearly using the same apocalyptic language [Speculation! DA] to teach the coming judgment of God on the terminal generation of the Old Covenant age: "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken." (Matthew 24:29 NASB)

Once again there would be a Day of The Lord in which God would command His mighty warriors to execute His anger on the enemy of His people. He would destroy the kingdom, which had become a harlot. Her desolation would come as He gathered the nations against her.

This judgment would be in fulfillment of His promise made to Old Covenant Israel through her own prophets (Deut. 32:20-24; Is. 65:12-15).

We now know that He sent the Romans with a coalition of nations, to make her land desolate and destroy it's sinners from it.

Just as with God's judgment on Babylon by the Medes, the judgment on Old Covenant Israel [Figurative language in one place does not prove figurative language in another place! DA] by the Romans would be described as the sun being darkened, the moon not giving it's light, and the power of the heavens being shaken!

The judgments of Babylon and Jerusalem are both past (Preterist) events not future (Futurist).

In other words anything which contradicts your assumptions/presuppositions you simply blow off as figurative. Once again, the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was a literal, historical event and was recorded as such. Why wasn't it described with the same figurative language you are claiming for the rest of the passage? When did the other events I listed literally, actually happen?

 

[A New World]

In other words anything which contradicts your assumptions/presuppositions you simply blow off as figurative. Once again, the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple was a literal, historical event and was recorded as such. Why wasn't it described with the same figurative language you are claiming for the rest of the passage? When did the other events I listed literally, actually happen?

I'm not blowing anything off as figurative. The quest is to interpret Scripture as God intended through the inspired writers to their specific audiences.

My point with the comparison of Isaiah's and Jesus' prophecies is to show that the Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with the end of the world. Neither Isaiah or Jesus prophesied the end of the universe as we know it though if one read them in a wooden/literal way one could misinterpret them.

The focus of Isaiah was the end of Babylon as a kingdom and the arrival of the Medo-Persian kingdom, or Empire. Jesus' focus was the end of the Old Covenant kingdom, the Mosaic age, and the arrival of the New Covenant kingdom, the Messianic age.

They each used apocalyptic, figurative, language to convey their respective prophecies. The actual, literal, destructions were described in figurative terms. You seem to understand that when you read Isaiah.

When he wrote: "For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine" (figurative), that meant Babylon would be removed as a kingdom (literal).

But, when Jesus said: "But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken" you wonder when those cosmic events took place in history.

If we are consistent we'd understand that Jesus was employing the exact method of Isaiah. Jesus used figurative language to convey the destruction of Jerusalem and the transfer of the kingdom from Moses to Messiah.

 

[A New World]

The destruction of Jerusalem was a literal historical event. When did these events literally happen?

1. the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [Not the Roman army. DA]
2. Immediately after the tribulation of those days
3. shall the sun be darkened, and
4. the moon shall not give her light, and
5. the stars shall fall from heaven, and
6. the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
7. then shall appear the sign of the Son of man [Not the Roman army. DA] in heaven: and then shall
8. all the tribes of the earth mourn, and
9. they shall see the Son of man [Not the Roman army. DA] coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
10. And he shall send his angels
11. with a great sound of a trumpet, and
12. they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:27-31
(27) For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(28) For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
(29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
(30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(31) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

Der Alter,
The following is a consistent application of your logic regarding the literal fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem.

You asked:

"The destruction of Jerusalem was a literal historical event. When did these events literally happen?"

Question:

The destruction of Babylon was a literal historical event. When did these events literally happen?

1. When did all the hands in Babylon fall limp?
2. When did every heart in Babylon melt?
3. When did the Babylonians writhe like a woman in labor?
4. When were their faces aflame?
5. When did the Day of The Lord come, cruel, with fury and burning anger, to make Babylon a desolation?
6. When were the Babylonians exterminated from the land?
7. When did the stars of heaven and their constellations not flash forth their light as associated with Babylon?
8. When was the sun dark when it rose as associated with Babylon?
9. When did the moon not shed it's light as associated with Babylon?

Answer: when God sent the Medes to remove the kingdom from Babylon!

Isaiah 13 is the prophecy of the imminent Day of The Lord when Babylon would be judged.

Wail, for the day of the LORD is near! It will come as destruction from the Almighty. Therefore all hands will fall limp, And every man's heart will melt. They will be terrified, Pains and anguish will take hold of them; They will writhe like a woman in labor, They will look at one another in astonishment, Their faces aflame. Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light. (Isaiah 13:6-10 NASB)

The answer to your previous series of questions: When God sent the Romans to remove the kingdom from Old Covenant Israel.

Matthew 24 is a prophecy of the imminent Day of The Lord when Israel would be judged.

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that HE IS NEAR, RIGHT AT THE DOOR. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24:29-34 NASB)

Confirmation from an inspired apostle that the coming of The Lord in that generation, as prophesied by Jesus, had drawn near:

Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for THE COMING OF THE LORD IS NEAR. Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, THE JUDGE IS STANDING RIGHT AT THE DOOR. (James 5:7-9 NASB)