Full Immersion

[Light of the East]

Look, No one in the Bible ever baptized a baby, that was down by the Catholic church, it them taking man doctrine and claim it to be God's law. Fact, You have to accept Jesus, a baby can not do that. Fact you have to understand what you are doing, babies can not do that, Fact it has to be the person choice who is being baptized, again babies can not do that or make that. Fact it is also a testimony to be saved, babies have no testimony nor do they understand it.

So sense you came in our forum and preached your doctrine let me shoot down your church real fast.

Your priest are called father but Jesus said. Mat 23 8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters.9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’ for only God in heaven is your Father.10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah.11 The greatest among you must be a servant.12 But those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.

Your preist take the spiritual name of father which here God clearly says not to do. Your children take communion when they don't understand what it means, that is also wrong Jesus said do this in remembrance of me.

Also you call the pope holy and believe he holds the keys to heaven having been handed down to him from the pope before him and from Peter to the first pope. This is delusional no where does Peter ever pass on the Keys to heaven that Jesus gave him. The pope also has holy names written on his hat which describe him as holy, Blaspheme. Personally I think your pope is an anti christ. and i truly believe the false prophet of the beast will be one of the popes. Your church is nothing but ritual and man made doctrines. That does not mean no one is saved in your church i have met some who in spite of all this and your priest molesting children are in fact saved, but you came to the wrong forum to preach your crap.

In respect for what was said earlier, i.e., there is no debate here, I will just say that my original post was to show that in the Catholic faith, it is only the Romans who do not immerse their babies. Perhaps you and others did not know this. I know that before I became Catholic, I was under the same assumption that Catholics only poured water or sprinkled. Immersion is the way that the first Christians baptized people, and in the writings of St. Iranaeus, there are instructions on how to baptize infant children.

If you would like to engage in dialogue on the other issues with me, in respect of the admonition against debate here, I would invite you to start a discussion thread and I will gladly talk with you. I think that as someone who was a Bob Jones IFB for 12 years, I might be able to understand your concerns and answer them.

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

[…] Personally I think your pope is an anti christ. and i truly believe the false prophet of the beast will be one of the popes. Your church is nothing but ritual and man made doctrines. […]

Hmm… You can never be too sure. The Catholic Church may be terrible in doctrine, but worse ones may appear. The Antichrist and the false prophet may not be in any way related with the Catholic Church. You can never be too sure.

[…] but you came to the wrong forum to preach your crap.

Look, you should not call other beliefs ‘crap’. Yes, they may be obviously incorrect, but that is no reason to use such derogatory and insulting terms. You should probably apologise. In future, I kindly suggest that you go no further than ‘nonsense’ or anything similar.

 

[DeaconDean]

it is only the Romans who do not immerse their babies.

I might be wrong, but, Lutherians and Presbyterians do not immerse either.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[DawnStar]

I might be wrong, but, Lutherians and Presbyterians do not immerse either.

God Bless

Till all are one.

Neither do Methodists by practice. However if you choose to be immersed they will find a baptistry to perform it. The Methodist church I attended as a child did anyway.

 

[DawnStar]

That does not mean no one is saved in your church i have met some who in spite of all this and your priest molesting children are in fact saved, but you came to the wrong forum to preach your crap.

Would you like me to provide a list for you of all the Baptist and other protestant pastors who have been sent to jail for child molestation and rape? Not to mention being guilty of adultery with other church members. It is not just a Catholic church problem. Your insinuation is crap.

 

[OzSpen]

Well, in fellowship you know now that only the Romans do not immerse their kids. They also don't give them Holy Communion, as do the other Catholic rites. I have considerable problems with Roman theology. That's all I'll say to avoid the appearance of debate.

Are you using 'Romans' to refer to Roman Catholics? If so, this is incorrect as I know Presbyterians, Uniting Church (a union of Presbyterian, Congregational & Methodist) and Lutherans in Australia who do not immerse their children. As an infant I was baptised by dabbing/sprinkling in a Methodist Church in Australia.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Look, No one in the Bible ever baptized a baby

I said that to an evangelical Presbyterian recently and her answer was, 'There were household baptisms in the Bible and that includes children'. We know from a verse such as Acts 16:31 that households were saved because they believed. This does not confirm that infants were baptised because they had to 'believe'. That's impossible for a 6-month old child.

Oz

 

[The Portuguese Baptist]

Would you like me to provide a list for you of all the Baptist and other protestant pastors who have been sent to jail for child molestation and rape? Not to mention being guilty of adultery with other church members. It is not just a Catholic church problem. Your insinuation is crap.

What is the percentage of Catholic priests who rape children, and what is the percentage of Baptist pastors who rape children? I mean, surely, it is not only a Catholic problem, but my understanding is that it is much more serious there…

Nevertheless, Bluelion is wrong in using that as a way of trying to falsify Catholic doctrine.

 

[DawnStar]

I mean, surely, it is not only a Catholic problem, but my understanding is that it is much more serious there…

I believe it is not a case of it being more serious. I believe it is a case of it getting more mainstream media attention.
I am not sure about the Catholic numbers but as of 2003 there were cases of 838 protestant ministers sexually abusing children. The Baptist/fundamentalist/evangelicals top the list. And that was 12 years ago and I am sure the number is much higher now. Seems like the ones who pound the pulpit and foam at the mouth about sexual sin are the ones who are the most guilty of doing it.
http://www.reformation.com/

 

[Job8]

How important is it for someone to baptized through full immersion?

It is just as important as believing that when a person is baptized by full immersion, he is fully identifying himself as being one with Christ is His death, burial, and resurrection. Therefore he is "raised" to walk in newness of life. The only way that one can be symbolically raised from the dead -- "in the likeness of His resurrection " -- is by firstly being fully immersed, and then being brought up out of the water (Romans 6:3-5).

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness o f his resurrection:

Even Baptists do not really teach properly what Scripture reveals about baptism.

1. Water baptism must be an integral part of the Gospel (Mt 28:18-20; Mk 16:16,16).

2. According to the New Testament baptism is to be administered immediately after conversion (Acts 8:35-40), not days, weeks, months, or years later.

3. Any mature male Christian can baptize a new convert (Acts 9:10-19), not necessarily an ordained minister.

4. Water baptism is a command, not an option (Acts 10:44-48).

5. There is no extensive preparation or classes required prior to baptism (Acts 16:30-34).

6. Water baptism is a witness to the world that the a sinner has repented and been converted (Acts 2:38-41; 3:19).

7. Water baptism does not give access to local church member, but symbolically indicates membership in the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13).

8. Water baptism teaches the new believer that God is three Divine Persons -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- and it is in His name that the believer is baptized (Mt 28:19).

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Out of curiosity, are you Church of Christ?

 

[DawnStar]

4. Water baptism is a command, not an option (Acts 10:44-48).

You are taking those verses out of context.
Those of the circumcision are Jewish believers. The command was not a general command in the way you seem to understand it. The word them in verse 48 is referring to the Gentile believers at that particular gathering in Caesarea. In those verses the Jewish believers were commanded or ordered to baptize those Gentiles at that gathering who also received the holy spirit. It was a specific directive TO baptize a group of people in one specific time and place and not GET baptized .

 

[Job8]

You are taking those verses out of context.
Those of the circumcision are Jewish believers. The command was not a general command in the way you seem to understand it.

When it comes to critical matters pertaining to the commandments of Christ, it is not very wise to try and explain them away. We must never lead others astray.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mt 28:19).

And he said unto them,Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16).

Had you turned to Matthew 28:18-20 and Mark 16:15,16, you would have discovered that Christian baptism is a COMMAND, not an option. Any person who has believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and continues to remain without Christian baptism is in direct disobedience to Christ. That is precisely why over 3,000 believers were baptized on one day (Acts 2:41). And then to introduce a distinct between Jew and Gentile is to add more confusion, since all believers -- Jew and Gentile -- are BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST -- by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor 12:12).

That is also why salvation and baptism are inextricably linked together in Scripture (Acts 16:32,33): And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. Please note that there was no delay in the baptism of this believing household.

Just so we are clear (1) water baptism does not save a soul from hell, and (2) it is always BELIEVER'S baptism (and even young children can be believers and must be baptized).

 

[Job8]

Out of curiosity, are you Church of Christ?

No. I am simply a Christian who believes the Bible, not the traditions of men.

 

[OzSpen]

Out of curiosity, are you Church of Christ?

Please backquote so that we know to whom you refer.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Please backquote so that we know to whom you refer.

I was referring to Job8

 

[OzSpen]

No. I am simply a Christian who believes the Bible, not the traditions of men.

In Australia, those who use the designation, 'Simply Christians', are Churches of Christ. See:

Bible Study - Churches of Christ - Simply Bible Simply ...
www.simplybible.com/dhome.htm
Bible study resource by Ron Graham provided by churches of Christ. Our motto: simply Bible, simply Christians.

 

[OzSpen]

I was referring to Job8

Many thanks.

 

[Job8]

In Australia, those who use the designation, 'Simply Christians', are Churches of Christ.

I was not aware of that. So let's say *merely a Bible-believing Christian*. If I am not mistaken, churches of Christ believe that water baptism is essential for salvation. But only the blood of Christ can wash away our sins, and only His robe of righteousness can make us righteous before God. At the same time, water baptism is the first step of obedience to Christ.

 

[OzSpen]

I was not aware of that. So let's say *merely a Bible-believing Christian*. If I am not mistaken, churches of Christ believe that water baptism is essential for salvation. But only the blood of Christ can wash away our sins, and only His robe of righteousness can make us righteous before God. At the same time, water baptism is the first step of obedience to Christ.

The Churches of Christ in Australia is not the same denomination as the Church of Christ USA. Churches of Christ in Australia is a denomination very much like Baptists in theology and does not promote baptismal regeneration. I am not associated with the Churches of Christ, but have preached in some CoC churches and know some CoC pastors.