FSTDT.com

[Duo]

I have been quoted over there many times and even won an award once. It is funny because I do not really self-identify as a fundementalist.

Lisa

Even if you dont think yourself as one, a comment that you made might have come across as being that way...
I think I might have seen your name on there actually..
What award did you win, if I may ask?

 

[Lisa0315]

Even if you dont think yourself as one, a comment that you made might have come across as being that way...
I think I might have seen your name on there actually..
What award did you win, if I may ask?

I was debating abortion and said that a child was created when a man, woman, and God came together. I didn't realize how that sounded of course. I won an "In Bed with Jesus" award.


Lisa

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I was merely making a point. She made the statement that " ...we just don't dedicate sites to bashing them & shining a spotlight onto them all -
it's called having a LIFE and not dedicating our time to attacking people."

And my point was that is not true, because there are are large group of christians fundamentalists who do do such things. Although you may not support them, they are still considered fundamentalist christians.

I understand your point, but still you're whacking us across the face with a big smelly fish of guilt by association.

I deny that those who promote hatred against homosexuals, or violence against abortion clinics, or who protest at the funerals of soldiers who died in Iraq are fundamentalist Christians, because I don't think they're Christians at all. They may call themselves such, but I think in the end Jesus will say to them:


Matthew 7:23 (The Message)

The Message (MSG)Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson


21-23"Knowing the correct password—saying 'Master, Master,' for instance— isn't going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, 'Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.' And do you know what I am going to say? 'You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don't impress me one bit. You're out of here.'

 

[Lisa0315]

I understand your point, but still you're whacking us across the face with a big smelly fish of guilt by association.

I deny that those who promote hatred against homosexuals, or violence against abortion clinics, or who protest at the funerals of soldiers who died in Iraq are fundamentalist Christians, because I don't think they're Christians at all. They may call themselves such, but I think in the end Jesus will say to them:


Matthew 7:23 (The Message)

The Message (MSG)Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson


21-23"Knowing the correct password—saying 'Master, Master,' for instance— isn't going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, 'Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.' And do you know what I am going to say? 'You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don't impress me one bit. You're out of here.'

Yeah, I agree. It is why I shy away from the term myself. I have very fundamentalist doctrine but I do not practice what I would call a militant Christianity. Those who do, well, see my signature...

Lisa

 

[Duo]

I understand your point, but still you're whacking us across the face with a big smelly fish of guilt by association.

I deny that those who promote hatred against homosexuals, or violence against abortion clinics are fundamentalist Christians, because I don't think they're Christians at all. They may call themselves such, but I think in the end Jesus will say to them:

Im not saying you are supporting the violence aganst homosexuals and such, Im just saying that there are people who do such. The people who condone such activities only practice what they are taught. Id rather not bring up that whole incident in the bible with Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Im not saying you are supporting the violence aganst homosexuals and such, Im just saying that there are people who do such. The people who condone such activities only practice what they are taught. Id rather not bring up that whole incident in the bible with Sodom and Gomorrah.

There's no reason not to go there, because there are some good lessons from Sodom and Gomorrah. It wasn't homosexuality in particular that was their problem. No, it was that they were thoroughly wicked, depraved and evil in every way. The incident on Lot's doorstep showed them to be rapists and murders. There wasn't a single good person in Sodom to be found. Only Lot and his immediate family were spared, and Lot was obviously no prize either... but they were spared because they were close relatives of Abraham, and God apparently had plans for them.

 

[Duo]

There's no reason not to go there, because there are some good lessons from Sodom and Gomorrah. It wasn't homosexuality in particular that was their problem. No, it was that they were thoroughly wicked, depraved and evil in every way. The incident on Lot's doorstep showed them to be rapists and murders. There wasn't a single good person in Sodom to be found. Only Lot and his immediate family were spared, and Lot was obviously no prize either... but they were spared because they were close relatives of Abraham, and God apparently had plans for them.

Even so, it trys to imply the connection between homosexuality and wickedness.

a few verses on the "abomination" homosexuality, and how it is worthy of punishment:

Romans 1
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Leviticus 18
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

later on in the chapter...

18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

All this prejudice aganst them kind of goes aganst the whole idea of "love thy neighbor"

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Even so, it trys to imply the connection between homosexuality and wickedness.

a few verses on the "abomination" homosexuality, and how it is worthy of punishment:

Romans 1
1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Leviticus 18
18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

later on in the chapter...

18:29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

All this prejudice aganst them kind of goes aganst the whole idea of "love thy neighbor"

I have some strong opinions on that subject, but it's a tangent I dare not debate here. Since I'm not a member of the Fundamentalist forum, it would be against the rules.

 

[AnneSally]

At the same time, I do think he (Apostle Paul) was something of a sexist and a homophobe,

How come?

 

[desmalia]

I have some strong opinions on that subject, but it's a tangent I dare not debate here. Since I'm not a member of the Fundamentalist forum, it would be against the rules.

I appreciate your restraint here. Please feel free to start a topic in the debate section if you want to discuss it further, of course.

 

[AnneSally]

Bow to me. I got, like, 4.22 or 4.25 or something in that range.

I am fundier than thou.

 

[AnneSally]

Paul is this girl's HERO - can't wait to meet that man & share some cheesecake while I'm surrounded by a zoo of animals.
lol (BLISS) =)~

Totally! Paul is fantastic, love him!

Peter is my personal favourite apostle though, often made mistakes (like I do, so I can relate). But he was also the only one who stepped out of the boat and tried to walk on water, ok, so he lacked faith and started sinking but he at least had the faith to step out of the boat and try to reach Jesus in the first place.

 

[Duo]

I have some strong opinions on that subject, but it's a tangent I dare not debate here. Since I'm not a member of the Fundamentalist forum, it would be against the rules.

So...let me try and understand you.
The reason why you dont comment on those thing, what I just said, is because your not a member of the fundamentalist forum, and therefore refuse to make a comment? Doesnt that seem like the easy answer, and the easy way out? The more and more I try to present something, such as what I said in my previous post, the more people refuse to comment on them.

 

[AnneSally]

In general, I have always said that those who attack Paul yet claim they're Christians, are shooting themselves in the foot as to their actual faith.
Becuz it's only Paul who brings the clarification of grace over law. And gives so much teaching on what has changed from the OT due to Christ's sacrifice. He explains how we become new in spirit, how to witness, clarification on church structure and leadership, etc.

Paul's done the most for us spiritually speaking in liberating us as God's people in the new Grace covenant as Christ's bride, yet they attack him becuz he lists the moral sins that are still forbidden... it's nothing but bias imo.

If Paul is right in his grace over law, and liberties in Christ, and love over condemnation, then how is he wrong in the corrections he wrote to the churches where he has to teach proper judgment and list the moral sins? You can't have both when it's penned from the same man's hand.

Paul was phenomenal - his love of the saints was beyond belief.
People want their sin and God's kingdom both. Taking the blessings without obeying the commands. Nothing is new under the sun.

Paul was phenomenal!!! And he was THE apostle to the Gentiles. I know that for a fact because it was his writings in Romans and Acts that were amongst the only ones I could understand when I was an unbelieving gentile struggling to read the Bible and coming to terms with the reality that I was a sinner. The way Paul was preaching to the Greeks resonated with me and I took a leap on faith based on what he was saying and Jesus caught me.

Thank you apostle Paul. Thank you Jesus.

 

[AnneSally]

Hah! You should see the non-CF site I post on. GT is a rose garden.

Is it ever!!! Blimey, you got that right X!

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

So...let me try and understand you.
The reason why you dont comment on those thing, what I just said, is because your not a member of the fundamentalist forum, and therefore refuse to make a comment? Doesnt that seem like the easy answer, and the easy way out? The more and more I try to present something, such as what I said in my previous post, the more people refuse to comment on them.

I assure you, most of us, myself included, are very opinionated and quite willing to share our opinions with anybody who will listen. But this is CF, which being such a large site, has a lot of rules, and individual forums have their own rules. It's a tangled mess that takes some getting used to. And this is a subject that typically leads to the shedding of much more heat than light, if you know what I mean.

I would be happy to discuss this issue elsewhere, but I can't do so here. To do would draw complaints and probably an infraction. If my opinions agreed with the majority on this subject, I'd probably get away with it, since likely there'd be no complaint... but as it happens, they don't. Like you, I am a guest here, and I don't want to abuse my welcome.

We could adjourn to the Debate subforum of this one, and Desmalia has suggested that, but as Mr. Miyagi said, "Too much advantage, your dojo." WWMC would be where I'd feel most comfortable discussing it, but I don't know how much WWMC would appreciate it either. This would actually be the proper place for it, though it's a jungle.

 

[Aleksander]

So...let me try and understand you.
The reason why you dont comment on those thing, what I just said, is because your not a member of the fundamentalist forum, and therefore refuse to make a comment? Doesnt that seem like the easy answer, and the easy way out? The more and more I try to present something, such as what I said in my previous post, the more people refuse to comment on them.

Well he isn't replying

Oh and about that Sodom and Gomorrah episode, I'd suggest everyone take a look at verses 19:30-38 :

30And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.

31And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:

32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

33And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

34And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

35And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.

36Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.

37And the first born bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day. 38And the younger, she also bare a son, and called his name Benammi: the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day.

 

[AnneSally]

We could adjourn to the Debate subforum of this one, and Desmalia has suggested that, but as Mr. Miyagi said, "Too much advantage, your dojo."

Ah Izzy, you do make me chuckle....

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Paul was phenomenal!!! And he was THE apostle to the Gentiles. I know that for a fact because it was his writings in Romans and Acts that were amongst the only ones I could understand when I was an unbelieving gentile struggling to read the Bible and coming to terms with the reality that I was a sinner. The way Paul was preaching to the Greeks resonated with me and I took a leap on faith based on what he was saying and Jesus caught me.

Thank you apostle Paul. Thank you Jesus.

Like you, I am a huge Paul fan. But he himself admitted on many occasions to being far short of perfect...

How come?

...so please, take my criticisms of him in full context:

At the same time, I do think he was something of a sexist and a homophobe, but without dismissing him for it (and I don't especially blame him for it since it was the common attitude of his time and culture). Far from dismissing him, I think he was the most important NT writer, and the most important NT character besides Jesus. But sometimes in his epistles, Paul was speaking for himself, and sometimes he was speaking for God. One reason for studying Paul carefully and prayerfully is to discern which.

But regretfully, I don't think this is something I'm free to discuss here beyond what I've already said. We could take it over to WWMC and I'm sure it'd be fine there.

 

[AnneSally]

Like you, I am a huge Paul fan. But he himself admitted on many occasions to being far short of perfect...


...so please, take my criticisms of him in full context:

But regretfully, I don't think this is something I'm free to discuss here. We could it take over to WWMC and I'm sure it'd be fine there.

No probs Iz, I wasn't seeking to draw swords over it, just curious as to why you felt that way and you have explained, that's fine.

It's just that I often hear that people think that of him, but for myself, I don't feel that way about him. But it's not that I'm looking justify him or anything because I think he already is justified, he being the Apostle that Jesus chose, 'n all.