Frustrated

[Heber]

Also fires were harder to build back then, it actually took a lot of work! Remember the example Yah made of the man who was gathering sticks on the Sabbath? He probably figured he was smart, get his sticks while the others were resting. Idk, but starting a car just doesn't seem to be offensive to God. I don't think that's how the verses apply in our day and age.

If someone's consiounce (sp?) won't allow them to drive at least for a time while they figure out this whole Sabbath thing, that's fine. I won't force anyone to drive or do anything. It's kind of up for personal interpretation.

If you drive a car you are creating fire - G_d rested from creation on the Sabbath. In the same way you cannot take a photo because you are creating something, or turn on a light that produces a spark etc etc., or use a cigarette lighter!

 

[ChavaK]

I know a couple who wouldnt do a bible study or come over our house if it fell on Shabbat because of driving.

Well, that's interesting. I didn't know some Messianics observed shabbas in
that manner. Do you happen to know if they restrict the use of electricity?
And what other limitations they have?

 

[JRSut1000]

HOnestly, Im not sure. Sorry, I wish I knew more too. I think they do use electricity but maybe not.

 

[ChavaK]

HOnestly, Im not sure. Sorry, I wish I knew more too. I think they do use electricity but maybe not.

No problem, just curious.

 

[yonah_mishael]

I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in or cause anyone to stumble, I'll just simply let you know how my husband and I observe Shabbat. But before I do, know that many of us are probably going to have different interpretations as to exactly how Shabbat is carried out and what we should/should not do.

My husband and I are take the Shabbat at a pretty basic level. We don't do any usual work. I don't cook meals on Shabbat, I usually prepare a crockpot meal ahead of time or we just eat lightly (fruit/cheese/crackers/cereal, etc).

This might be a shocker, but we do use our car. But we don't go out to eat or cause anyone to work or anything. We don't go to festivals and markets. Usually its just a nature drive or going to the park.

Sometimes we just stay home and study or relax or pray together and such.

That's the great news. You're not under any religious obligations regarding Shabbat. You can observe it in your own way. Any way that you find to make Shabbat special for you and your husband, that's between you guys and God - and you have no restrictions at all. May it be a joy and delight to you!

 

[yedida]

Well, that's interesting. I didn't know some Messianics observed shabbas in
that manner. Do you happen to know if they restrict the use of electricity?
And what other limitations they have?

I will drive a car to shabbat services or to someone's home for a gathering but not for any other purpose (save medical emergency - sadly getting batteries for DH's pump falls under that category if we don't have any spares or cannot find them).
As far as handling money, the above batteries definitely; and if I've been negligent and my cats and kittens run out of food or litter, yes, I'll use the car and handle some money. I'll not make those helpless little creatures hurt because of my absent-mindedness. Otherwise, no business on shabbat.
But I didn't start out that way. My observance evolved as I grew in Torah, and it's still evolving as I'm still growing and learning.
For gentiles, it's a growing process. Relax and enjoy your journey.

 

[xDenax]

I won't force anyone to drive or do anything. It's kind of up for personal interpretation.

.

Actually, it isn't. Not within Judaism, I mean.

Maybe for MJ's that is the case? I just figured it was an all around acceptable activity but perhaps I was incorrect and everyone does as they feel led? It seems most drive on Shabbat so I assumed that is because it was determined it was acceptable. What do MJ congregations teach?

 

[yedida]

.

Actually, it isn't. Not within Judaism, I mean.

Maybe for MJ's that is the case? I just figured it was an all around acceptable activity but perhaps I was incorrect and everyone does as they feel led? It seems most drive on Shabbat so I assumed that is because it was determined it was acceptable. What do MJ congregations teach?

Dena,
MJ communities actually are not. Most cities have one or two Jewish communities and all things are within a reasonable distance of everything else. MJ does not have this. Most people, in fact, travel anywhere from 10 miles and more just to get to the nearest (not necessarily the best) MJ congregation. (I used to have to travel 144 miles round trip!) There is no way we could assemble on shabbat if we could not under any circumstance drive a car.

 

[JRSut1000]

We don't actually go to an MJ congregation but even just to meet up with friends of ours and have fellowship or even a meal together...it requires travel.

 

[ContraMundum]

I know a couple who wouldnt do a bible study or come over our house if it fell on Shabbat because of driving.

Hmmm....

Interesting to note that there are laws in the Bible that exempt people from ceasing their work or other activities on Shabbos. Jesus spoke about this.

A current example is my own situation. I have to be on call 24/7/365 and may be called in to do my paid duty on any occasion. I have to drive, usually, to do this.

 

[Truthseeker84]

Thanks everyone for the imput, the nearest messianic congregation is 30-40 minutes away so it is either stay home and try to teach myself or drive and learn things about the law so I can be better equipped to obey it.

 

[yedida]

Thanks everyone for the imput, the nearest messianic congregation is 30-40 minutes away so it is either stay home and try to teach myself or drive and learn things about the law so I can be better equipped to obey it.

I think I'm beginning to better understand FFoZ's stance on the Divine Invitation (I faught against it royally a few years ago). As believers in Yeshua we are not bound to obeying the law, we are saved either way (Mat. 5:19), but those wishing to be pleasing to the Father should obey to the best of their ability. In a situation such as that (to drive or not to drive, to assemble or not to assemble), if a minor negative must be broken to obey a greater positive, then the greater positive should take precedence. Now if one has the ability to not use a car and still assemble, the better move would be to obey both, the negative and the positive. Just thinking out loud here....

 

[JRSut1000]

Well, here's thoughts in addition to vedida, Y'shua was constantly correcting the Pharisees and breaking their traditions, but Y'shua never broke Yah's commandments. He did however say (and I totally paraphrase here) 'if your lamb is lost/hurt, go get it!', not to mention He did many miracles on the Sabbath. This doesn't demote the Sabbath as some might think, rather it turns us away from hindering traditions and turns us to a loving God who gave commands for our good and His glory, not to place difficult burdens on us. Okay, thats my thinking aloud, haha.

 

[yedida]

Well, here's thoughts in addition to vedida, Y'shua was constantly correcting the Pharisees and breaking their traditions, but Y'shua never broke Yah's commandments. He did however say (and I totally paraphrase here) 'if your lamb is lost/hurt, go get it!', not to mention He did many miracles on the Sabbath. This doesn't demote the Sabbath as some might think, rather it turns us away from hindering traditions and turns us to a loving God who gave commands for our good and His glory, not to place difficult burdens on us. Okay, thats my thinking aloud, haha.

This is what makes this particular corner of CF so special - we can think out loud (and even if we're way out in left field) we won't get beat up by the scriptures! It's nice to be able to think out loud and try to figure stuff out, ain't it/??

 

[JRSut1000]

Fo reals!

 

[Devri]

I don't want to throw a monkey wrench in or cause anyone to stumble, I'll just simply let you know how my husband and I observe Shabbat. But before I do, know that many of us are probably going to have different interpretations as to exactly how Shabbat is carried out and what we should/should not do.

My husband and I are take the Shabbat at a pretty basic level. We don't do any usual work. I don't cook meals on Shabbat, I usually prepare a crockpot meal ahead of time or we just eat lightly (fruit/cheese/crackers/cereal, etc).

This might be a shocker, but we do use our car. But we don't go out to eat or cause anyone to work or anything. We don't go to festivals and markets. Usually its just a nature drive or going to the park.

Sometimes we just stay home and study or relax or pray together and such.

This describes my shabbat as well.

 

[Devri]

Well, here's thoughts in addition to vedida, Y'shua was constantly correcting the Pharisees and breaking their traditions, but Y'shua never broke Yah's commandments. He did however say (and I totally paraphrase here) 'if your lamb is lost/hurt, go get it!', not to mention He did many miracles on the Sabbath. This doesn't demote the Sabbath as some might think, rather it turns us away from hindering traditions and turns us to a loving God who gave commands for our good and His glory, not to place difficult burdens on us. Okay, thats my thinking aloud, haha.

Very beautifully put!

 

[yedida]

I get the impression that most MJ/Gs (at least the ones here) don't go out of their way to "break" the rabbinic rulings for shabbat, but neither do we have our hands tied behind out backs. We use a car if necessary to get back and forth to gatherings of praise, worship and Torah study; but we won't use the car (or our legs for that matter) to go house shopping.
In matters of medical emergencies we'll spend money to buy medicines, go to an open clinic if unusual symptoms, etc.; we won't spend money on our new fall wardrobe.
It seems to be a matter of simple common sense. There are just some things that cannot be done without the use of a car - I don't think Hashem would have his people walking 144 miles round trip to a worship service. (Can a man even walk that far in one day?) And I'm sure He doesn't have in mind that we just sit behind our closed doors on shabbat. In Lev. 23 he said on his feast days and on shabbat there would be a holy convocation (assembly) and I think it was Paul who said not to forsake the gathering together of the saints, so it seems he would have us to come together to gather strength from each other and to lift one another up. Just thinking again....

 

[xDenax]

Dena,
MJ communities actually are not. Most cities have one or two Jewish communities and all things are within a reasonable distance of everything else. MJ does not have this. Most people, in fact, travel anywhere from 10 miles and more just to get to the nearest (not necessarily the best) MJ congregation. (I used to have to travel 144 miles round trip!) There is no way we could assemble on shabbat if we could not under any circumstance drive a car.

What I am asking is if there is an "official" MJ ruling on driving a car. If I want to know about the rulings within Judaism I can go check with Orthodox or Conservative sources and find what has been said about driving on Shabbat (it is not a matter of personal interpretation). So I was asking if you have something similar or if it's up to each individual to decide what is best for his or her family.

 

[yedida]

What I am asking is if there is an "official" MJ ruling on driving a car. If I want to know about the rulings within Judaism I can go check with Orthodox or Conservative sources and find what has been said about driving on Shabbat (it is not a matter of personal interpretation). So I was asking if you have something similar or if it's up to each individual to decide what is best for his or her family.

Ah, misunderstood. At one time I think the two main assocs. were trying to come up with something like that, including a cover-all SoF, but I don't think it ever took off. So, as far as I know, no MJ doesn't have anything like that. It sure would be nice to have it though. It surely would not be agreeable to all, but it would make for good starting points on so many questions.