Frustrated

[anisavta]

What I am asking is if there is an "official" MJ ruling on driving a car. If I want to know about the rulings within Judaism I can go check with Orthodox or Conservative sources and find what has been said about driving on Shabbat (it is not a matter of personal interpretation). So I was asking if you have something similar or if it's up to each individual to decide what is best for his or her family.

There's not really an "official" ruling on anything because Messianic Judaism is still in it's infant stage. All I can speak for is UMJC and they leave it up to each shul to set halacha. I would say the general halacha is more in line with Reform or Conservative.

 

[Heber]

What do you do if you drive to an MJ service and they forbid using the car on Shabbat - leave it in the car park and walk 30 miles home? Of course not. Your need is to get you and your family home, safely.

What if someone in came to your house and needed feeding, washing and cleaning - would you refuse to go and buy anything that is NEEDED to care for that person? Would you refuse medication if you do not have to hand what is needed? Would you turn them away because you cannot heat water to tend their needs or feed them? Of course not.

Yeshua set the framework with the picture of the lamb that was lost and the healings he did. We must not presume on his grace to meet our wants on Shabbat, but we must live with the knowledge that his grace is forthcoming where we have to meet needs - ours or those of another, on Shabbat. It is not just common sense, it is about want or need. Going to share with fellow walkers of the Way is not a want - it is an essential need if you are able to do so (because of distance etc).

 

[MessianicMommy]

There's not really an "official" ruling on anything because Messianic Judaism is still in it's infant stage. All I can speak for is UMJC and they leave it up to each shul to set halacha. I would say the general halacha is more in line with Reform or Conservative.

Definitely. From what I have heard from friends in the MJAA, and also my friends and family affiliated with the MIA and other separate Messianic groups - the concensus is somewhere between Reform and Conservative halachic standing on activities on shabbat.

There was discussion at my home congregation, especially for those who travelled more than 45-75 minutes to get to us, to build their own congregation in an area they could all buy land and be able to walk. As far as I know this has not quite happened, but they are operating as smaller home groups until the high holidays when everyone tries to get together as one big happy family.

For us, there's absolutely nothing nearby (nearest is 3ish hours to the north and around the same to the south) - with the exception of an Orthodox synagogue 40ish minutes to our north. I'd be terribly embarrassed to drive up iykwim, considering I really respect other people's walk and personal observances - so we don't do that. We won't be moving any time soon either.

 

[ChavaK]

What if someone in came to your house and needed feeding, washing and cleaning - would you refuse to go and buy anything that is NEEDED to care for that person? Would you refuse medication if you do not have to hand what is needed? Would you turn them away because you cannot heat water to tend their needs or feed them? Of course not.

You make it sound like we have nothing in our refridgerators or on our shelves. Most everything anyone would need we have on shabbas (including hot water). As far as medications go- if they are needed to save a life, of
course it's fine-and required-to go obtain them.

 

[Heber]

You make it sound like we have nothing in our refridgerators or on our shelves. Most everything anyone would need we have on shabbas (including hot water). As far as medications go- if they are needed to save a life, of
course it's fine-and required-to go obtain them.

I was quoting many possibilities where we may have to break with the normal way of doing things on Shabbat. I actually keep very little in the house so I would certainly have to shop if that happened - and the shop is not within walking distance.

 

[xDenax]

You make it sound like we have nothing in our refridgerators or on our shelves.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[xDenax]

I was quoting many possibilities where we may have to break with the normal way of doing things on Shabbat. I actually keep very little in the house so I would certainly have to shop if that happened - and the shop is not within walking distance.

So if the shops were closed you'd have some issues? For people who don't drive on Shabbat, spend money, cook, etc it just takes extra preparation which is useful all around.

 

[Heber]

So if the shops were closed you'd have some issues? For people who don't drive on Shabbat, spend money, cook, etc it just takes extra preparation which is useful all around.

I have 3, 24/7 shops, within a couple miles! No problem!

 

[MessianicMommy]

Generally speaking, we have extra for *every* meal, not just Shabbat.
This is why it is so important for me to have the house in order, in case we had anyone drop by, or need something every day, but especially more on shabbat.

Most Sabbath keepers I've ever known, always have extra on shabbat to host people, or in case someone is in need, so they can host. I don't see an issue?

Needless to say, those activities you posed, wouldn't be breaking any halachic rulings iirc. (unless they're going to go shopping of course)

Even going to the hospital - if it was a need - would be a-ok. Or if you had to call the police/fire department out (G-d forbid) for some emergency. We're talking about saving lives here. Proverbial ox (or person) in the ditch.

 

[ChavaK]

I was quoting many possibilities where we may have to break with the normal way of doing things on Shabbat.

However, in reality there is almost no reason at all to break shabbas...unless
of course it is necessary to save a life. There isn't a whole lot that can't
wait til motzei shabbas.

 

[MessianicMommy]

yep

 

[xDenax]

I have 3, 24/7 shops, within a couple miles! No problem!

I meant in the case of emergencies, natural disasters, outbreaks of illnesses, etc.

 

[anisavta]

Denex and Chava - you hit the nail on the head. Preparation and needs. We have 6 whole days to prepare for Shabbat and those of us who have been doing it for awhile know the drill.
We make sure our household is prepared. Yes we do drive to shul but we make sure there is gas in the car. All the food we need is in the fridg or crockpot. And so far no one has stumbled up to our door needing lifesaving meds. If they did we'd invite them in and call 911.

 

[ChavaK]

Denex and Chava - you hit the nail on the head. Preparation and needs. We have 6 whole days to prepare for Shabbat and those of us who have been doing it for awhile know the drill.
We make sure our household is prepared. Yes we do drive to shul but we make sure there is gas in the car. All the food we need is in the fridg or crockpot. And so far no one has stumbled up to our door needing lifesaving meds. If they did we'd invite them in and call 911.

We host a lot of people for shabbas, and often we have people drop by unannounced. I always make sure I have a lot of extra everything, just
in case. Although of course this shabbas, that won't be an issue

 

[ContraMundum]

What do you do if you drive to an MJ service and they forbid using the car on Shabbat - leave it in the car park and walk 30 miles home? Of course not. Your need is to get you and your family home, safely.

What if someone in came to your house and needed feeding, washing and cleaning - would you refuse to go and buy anything that is NEEDED to care for that person? Would you refuse medication if you do not have to hand what is needed? Would you turn them away because you cannot heat water to tend their needs or feed them? Of course not.

Yeshua set the framework with the picture of the lamb that was lost and the healings he did. We must not presume on his grace to meet our wants on Shabbat, but we must live with the knowledge that his grace is forthcoming where we have to meet needs - ours or those of another, on Shabbat. It is not just common sense, it is about want or need. Going to share with fellow walkers of the Way is not a want - it is an essential need if you are able to do so (because of distance etc).

Great summary.