From WOF to simplicity

now faith · Apr 12, 2014

A select few at Christ return as in the days of Noah?
8 people ,wow I guess those robed in white spoken of in revelation must be from another planet.

No reason to tithe?
How about God loves a cheerful giver.

We shouldn't have wealth,it will just tempt us.
Who decides how much is too much,do I check with the mighty theologians in this thread for permission?

Observing the comments in this thread is like a trip to never never land.
Never abound
Never heals
Never knowing for sure
Never know what God might do
Never believe anything positive

Well I guess you folks can count on luck
Because you will never have what you speak against.

ToBeBlessed · Apr 12, 2014

now faith said:
A select few at Christ return as in the days of Noah?
8 people ,wow I guess those robed in white spoken of in revelation must be from another planet.

No reason to tithe?
How about God loves a cheerful giver.

We shouldn't have wealth,it will just tempt us.
Who decides how much is too much,do I check with the mighty theologians in this thread for permission?

Observing the comments in this thread is like a trip to never never land.
Never abound
Never heals
Never knowing for sure
Never know what God might do
Never believe anything positive

Well I guess you folks can count on luck
Because you will never have what you speak against.

Yup. Each of us have our opinion and until it actually happens all we have is opinion. No one can prove the other wrong.

contango · Apr 12, 2014

now faith said:
A select few at Christ return as in the days of Noah?
8 people ,wow I guess those robed in white spoken of in revelation must be from another planet.

Way to miss the metaphor.

No reason to tithe?
How about God loves a cheerful giver.

How is "So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver" say anything about a tithe? It clearly says to give as you purpose to give, whether that means 10%, 1% or 100%.

We shouldn't have wealth,it will just tempt us.
Who decides how much is too much,do I check with the mighty theologians in this thread for permission?

Hey, it was your fellow WOF person who said a select few would be trusted with vast wealth. Would you deny what Jesus said about the problems money can bring? Nobody is saying we can't have anything, I just think it's silly to assume that a very select few will be trusted with enormous wealth so they can do all the giving.

Observing the comments in this thread is like a trip to never never land.
Never abound
Never heals
Never knowing for sure
Never know what God might do
Never believe anything positive

Where has anyone said any of those things? You do know there's a difference between "God doesn't heal on demand" and "God never heals", right?

Well I guess you folks can count on luck
Because you will never have what you speak against.

Do you have anything coherent to add to the discussion? Honestly, this post is little more than a collection of strawman counters to things that haven't been said, coupled with what seems to be an objection to a WOF position.

now faith · Apr 12, 2014

contango said:
What end time harvest would that be? The Bible seems to suggest the exact opposite:

2Th 2:3-4 NKJV Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, (4) who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Why does God need to give people great wealth at all? It's no secret that money can corrupt, that much has been clear since the time Jesus walked the earth if not longer still. When God owns the cattle on a thousand hills why does he need to concentrate wealth into the hands of a few?

He has? Can you indicate where?

Where are you hearing this from? I don't doubt for a minute that God may use people who will give at a moment's notice but it's a bit presumptuous to assume that God needs a small number of inconceivably wealthy people so they can do all the giving. What of stories like the widow's mite, what's stopping God from using lots of people all giving to the same cause? It's worked perfectly well for a long time.

Tithing is an Old Testament construct, although I'll agree that a lot of people seem to like the nice clean answer to "how much do I have to give?" (in other words, "what's the minimum I have to do to tick the give box?"). If God tells a group to fill the pitchers there's no reason why one person has to fill it themselves - why can't God call a dozen people, or a hundred people, to give such that the total is what is needed?

Sounds fine in theory but why is it needed by the masses if God is only going to choose a select few to do all the work? Perhaps you could also clarify just how you go about "spending time in the presence of the Lord" and how we "minister to Him". It sounds good and spiritual but unless you can explain what it means it sounds more like gnosticism.

I'm not sure what lines you're talking about here. Since you started with a presumption that there will be "a great harvest" when the Bible says there will be "a great falling away" some clarification would be good.

Perhaps you could also clarify how one goes about "fully entering into the rest of God"?

Why do you assume the wealth is for a few?

Why do you question God on who he rewarded?

Why do you think we believe God only needs a small number of people to give?

Tithing is between you and God,I have no Problem giving back to God.
Why does the idea bother you?
If you do not tithe why criticise others that do?

You keep repeating yourself on this select few.
Once again even in metaphor or not you want to think there will be a select few in heaven yourself.

Since I did not post the rest of God it would apply to the subject.

I do not build straw men I try to convey Bible truth to irrational understanding.

now faith · Apr 12, 2014

contango said:
Way to miss the metaphor.

How is "So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver" say anything about a tithe? It clearly says to give as you purpose to give, whether that means 10%, 1% or 100%.

Hey, it was your fellow WOF person who said a select few would be trusted with vast wealth. Would you deny what Jesus said about the problems money can bring? Nobody is saying we can't have anything, I just think it's silly to assume that a very select few will be trusted with enormous wealth so they can do all the giving.

Where has anyone said any of those things? You do know there's a difference between "God doesn't heal on demand" and "God never heals", right?

Do you have anything coherent to add to the discussion? Honestly, this post is little more than a collection of strawman counters to things that haven't been said, coupled with what seems to be an objection to a WOF position.

If a person would read the Word instead of parroting dogmas not found in the Word,they would not need simplest terms for discernment they cast aside as straw men.

It would behoove you to consider the translation you use Westcott and Hort were a bit slanted in theology,and interested in mysticism.

I am done here no need to debate God will judge us all I hope all understand we are one body in Christ.

now faith · Apr 12, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
Yup. Each of us have our opinion and until it actually happens all we have is opinion. No one can prove the other wrong.

That is a logical fallacy.

God's Word is the truth not opinion.

A person's opinion reflects there knowledge of the Word.

I'm done here

God bless.

contango · Apr 13, 2014

now faith said:
Why do you assume the wealth is for a few?

You're jumping into a discussion I was having with Alive_Again but hey, it's a public forum. AA was saying that God needs people who won't be corrupted by wealth and was apparently talking about people being blessed with huge wealth. That alone restricts it to a select few because most would be corrupted by it.

Why do you question God on who he rewarded?

I wasn't aware I was questioning God.

Why do you think we believe God only needs a small number of people to give?

I don't, that was the premise I was questioning. The idea of a few having inordinate wealth so they can give on demand was the very idea I was querying because it makes no sense to me.

Tithing is between you and God,I have no Problem giving back to God.
Why does the idea bother you?
If you do not tithe why criticise others that do?

What others give is between them and God. It makes no difference to me what others give. It does make a difference when people teach tithing as if we are expected to give 10% of our money when Paul teaches something different. I'd rather see someone give 5% joyfully than 10% grudgingly.

You keep repeating yourself on this select few.
Once again even in metaphor or not you want to think there will be a select few in heaven yourself.

I'm trying to figure out why some people appear to believe there will be a select few blessed with great wealth. If that isn't the case that others are putting forward it would make more sense for them to clarify what they are saying, than for you to complain that I think there will be a select few.

Just in case it still isn't clear, I think the idea that only a select few will be used to do all the work is complete bunk.

Since I did not post the rest of God it would apply to the subject.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

I do not build straw men I try to convey Bible truth to irrational understanding.

Sure. You just seem to have missed the point of my posts entirely. But no matter, if you're conveying Bible truth in places where you've missed what the other guy is sayng that's good too.

contango · Apr 13, 2014

now faith said:
If a person would read the Word instead of parroting dogmas not found in the Word,they would not need simplest terms for discernment they cast aside as straw men.

It would behoove you to consider the translation you use Westcott and Hort were a bit slanted in theology,and interested in mysticism.

I am done here no need to debate God will judge us all I hope all understand we are one body in Christ.

If you didn't want to debate why are you taking part in a debate thread?

Your post (and the one after it) are little more than "well I know I'm right and you're wrong and I'm not playing any more".

Never mind, thanks for taking part anyway.

Melshezidek · Apr 15, 2014

Alive_Again said:
I'm referring to this great end time harvest that is surely coming.

From what I've seen is that God needs people who won't be ruined by it. You can tell by lottery winners that money can corrupt. God is working to take covetouness out of His people. Those are the people He can trust with great wealth. He could supernaturally bring about a great prosperity and move it the way He desires if our hearts were pure and we had His precepts built into us about what its for. In short, He wants to train His people to prosper His kingdom (not ours).

yeah I agree with this sort of. I believe there's a select few who will be given great prosperity to be used for His kingdom when times get turbulent for the church.

The pattern has been to use His own people. Many aren't in the habit of forking over large sums of money. With the stuff I've been hearing about finance, He wants to train certain (willing) people who will give at the slightest tug (any amount). This is without any thought of the consequence. It's the steward's heart. It's not his money anyway.

yup, still agree

The main teaching of all this is profoundly what you'd call "word of faith". It means spending time in the presence of the Lord, ministering to Him, speaking the Word of God in your heart (like a farmer, not someone whimsical), someone who prays in the Spirit a LOT. From this pattern and lifestyle of renewal, the voice of the Lord is more clearly heard until as I believe He once said, "My voice will be the most clear voice you will hear.".

The idea is to hear the preaching of the Word along these lines, and then getting the revelation of it in your spirit, and stalking it out like a hunter. Over time, this "ripening of the spirit" takes place. He reshapes you on the inside and builds up a greater degree of trust (in Him). The more He trusts you to be a do'er, the more hearing you get. You're accountable for what you hear so it's important to follow through.

It's something we all desperately need to fully enter into and not let slip. It's more fully entering into the rest of God (where hearing comes). It's a fight to put everything else aside and not get turned away.

Certainly agree we must learn to hear God. very important

Melshezidek · Apr 15, 2014

now faith said:
That is a logical fallacy.

God's Word is the truth not opinion.

A person's opinion reflects there knowledge of the Word.

I'm done here

God bless.

Sorry you felt driven away. I for one was enjoying what you shared and agree with much of it.
There is an end time harvest. it's spoken of in the bible in many places just read Gods word. For example Jesus said the following

Matthew 13:47-50
"Again, the Kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
SO SHALL IT BE AT THE END OF THE WORLD: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

The falling away are the christians who get too involved in earthly things like money and religion instead of relationship

Melshezidek · Apr 15, 2014

Truthfrees said:
GOD bless all the Christians who treat all believers as family.

It's nice to fellowship with different Christians in a way that pleases the LORD.

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brethren to dwell together in unity! 2 It is like the precious oil upon the head, Running down on the beard, The beard of Aaron, Running down on the edge of his garments.
3 It is like the dew of Hermon, Descending upon the mountains of Zion; For there the Lord commanded the blessing Life forevermore." - Psalm 133:1-3

There is a anointing (precious oil) and blessing from the LORD when we walk in love and unity as we agree to disagree on our various beliefs.

God bless you who are peacemakers.

"Blessed are the merciful, For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." - Matthew 5:7-12

I like Copeland, I like Joyce Meyers. I like a lot of WOF and other denom's teachings. It doesn't mean I agree with them all, but that's normal.
I don't understand why the body rips itself to shreds the way it does. Please accept my apology on behalf of those in other denominations who have persecuted you. It's no lie that the body is destroying herself in these end days by attacking one another instead of joining in unity. It will change as the day of the Lord draws near

now faith · Apr 15, 2014

Melshezidek said:
Sorry you felt driven away. I for one was enjoying what you shared and agree with much of it.
There is an end time harvest. it's spoken of in the bible in many places just read Gods word. For example Jesus said the following

Matthew 13:47-50
"Again, the Kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
SO SHALL IT BE AT THE END OF THE WORLD: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

The falling away are the christians who get too involved in earthly things like money and religion instead of relationship

No brother not driven away,but just tired of same old divide Satan places in the believers.

It comes to a point that neither person can find common ground and glorify God.

Here is a thought on the blood moons what makes this interesting is that they cannot be observed from Israel.
Praise God for the blessing of Abraham being for Jew or Gentile.

Joel: 2. 23. Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. 24. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. 25. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. 26. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. 27. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. 28. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. 30. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Melshezidek · Apr 16, 2014

I understand, good to see you back.

Regarding those blood moons, the 4th blood moon actually is observable by Israel and interestingly enough it is during a time when the Israelites will be outside

AbbaLove · Apr 16, 2014

Melshezidek said:
There is an end time harvest. It's spoken of in the bible in many places just read Gods word. For example Jesus said the following

Matthew 13:47-50
"Again, the Kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:
Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
SO SHALL IT BE AT THE END OF THE WORLD: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."

The falling away are the christians who get too involved in earthly things like money and religion instead of relationship.

Melshezidek said:
I like Copeland, I like Joyce Meyers. I like a lot of WOF and other denom's teachings. It doesn't mean I agree with them all, but that's normal.

I don't understand why the body rips itself to shreds the way it does. Please accept my apology on behalf of those in other denominations who have persecuted you. It's no lie that the body is destroying herself in these end days by attacking one another instead of joining in unity. It will change as the day of the Lord draws near.

If ever given the opportunity would love to give JD a Bear hug. Not because I agree with everything he says, but because he is such a feisty little fellow. Of all the televangelists JD wouldn't turn down an opportunity to take on Goliath, and like David would run toward the Big Bully.

If only ALL of His children could display the Christian faith icon instead of feeling they need to choose a more specific faith icon. All these faith icons started out on the right path and to some extent drifted away from the True Capstone/Cornerstone.

Melshezidek said:
Regarding those blood moons, the 4th blood moon actually is observable by Israel and interestingly enough it is during a time when the Israelites will be outside

The so-called tetra blood moons in 2014-15 are warnings from another well known tetra - YHVH. It was more of a dark orange over America. To see some assemblance of a blood moon needed to be out in the middle of the Pacific These blood moons will not only pale in comparison to the real one spoken of in His Word, but will scare the bejeebers out of those contemporary lukewarm once a year easter bunny church goers.

Matthew 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Acts 2:20
The sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.

Revelation 6:12-14
When he opened the sixth seal, I looked, and behold, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth, the full moon became like blood, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth as the fig tree sheds its winter fruit when shaken by a gale. The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

Truthfrees · Apr 16, 2014

Melshezidek said:
I like Copeland, I like Joyce Meyers. I like a lot of WOF and other denom's teachings. It doesn't mean I agree with them all, but that's normal.
I don't understand why the body rips itself to shreds the way it does. Please accept my apology on behalf of those in other denominations who have persecuted you. It's no lie that the body is destroying herself in these end days by attacking one another instead of joining in unity. It will change as the day of the Lord draws near

Thanks Melshezidek.

1. Agreeing to disagree would help to a great degree (Amos 3:3, 2 Timothy 2:14).

2. Reading the Bible cover to cover at least once a year, AND discussing it WITH the LORD, would cause us all to come MORE into agreement (Joshua 1:8, Psalm 1:2, 2 Timothy 2:15).

3. Deciding NOT to speak evil of others would also help.

"Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge." - James 4:11

"Speak evil of no one, be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men." - Titus 3:2

"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself." - Philippians 2:3

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." - John 13:34

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." - Ephesians 4:32

"Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous." - 1 Peter 3:8

IOW:
I believe a great deal of the trouble comes from people:
1. Searching the internet for truth instead of searching scripture, AND
2. Leaning on their own understanding instead of discussing things with the LORD (Proverbs 3:5), AND
3. Allowing evil thoughts about others to dwell in their minds.

We can't change others, but we certainly can fellowship with the LORD and see HIS power change us from the inside out.

Truthfrees · Apr 16, 2014

IMO, the LORD has gifted each one of us PERFECTLY for the plans HE has for our life (Romans 11:29, Jeremiah 20:11, Mark 16:15, Matthew 28:18-20).

He wants me to find out from HIM what pleases HIM (Ephesians 5:10, Colossians 3:17, 1 Corinthians 10:31) and how to invest those talents fruitfully (Matthew 25:15-29).

I find that as I fellowship with HIM, HE shows me how to walk in perfect alignment with HIS plans (James 1:5, 2 Corinthians 2:10)

But mostly HE desires fellowship with me, and I REQUIRE fellowship with HIM (John 15:5, 1 Corinthians 1:9, James 4:8, Micah 6:8, 2 Corinthians 6:16).

For my life to be full and abundant (John 10:10), and bring the most glory to the LORD (1 Corinthians 10:31, Colossians 3:16-17), I need to hear HIS instructions, and do the things HE shows me (John 10, 10, John 5:19, John 8:28, John 5:30).

PRAISE the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.

Scriptures on walking with the LORD: http://bible.knowing...alking-With-God

Truthfrees · Apr 16, 2014

now faith said:
If a person would read the Word instead of parroting dogmas not found in the Word,they would not need simplest terms for discernment they cast aside as straw men.

It would behoove you to consider the translation you use Westcott and Hort were a bit slanted in theology,and interested in mysticism.

I am done here no need to debate God will judge us all I hope all understand we are one body in Christ.

I agree with others.

Your posts are true and good.

Some people may not be listening right now.

BUT the truth DOES set people free (John 8:32).

The LORDS words do NOT return void.

They accomplish what they're sent to do (Isaiah 55:11, Psalm 103:20).

I PRAISE the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY for you brother.

Your love for the LORD, HIS words, and people, is inspiring.

It's not easy reaching out to stubborn people.

You're a blessing to many because the LORD'S AGAPE richly dwells in you.

contango · Apr 16, 2014

Truthfrees said:
I agree with others.

Your posts are true and good.

The post you quoted was little more than accusing me of not reading the Bible, and assuming that the version I quoted is the only version I use on the rare occasions I do read it. Posts like that serve no useful purpose in any discussion.

contango · Apr 16, 2014

Truthfrees said:
Thanks Melshezidek.

1. Agreeing to disagree would help to a great degree (Amos 3:3, 2 Timothy 2:14).

2. Reading the Bible cover to cover at least once a year, AND discussing it WITH the LORD, would cause us all to come MORE into agreement (Joshua 1:8, Psalm 1:2, 2 Timothy 2:15).

3. Deciding NOT to speak evil of others would also help.

"Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge." - James 4:11

"Speak evil of no one, be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men." - Titus 3:2

"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself." - Philippians 2:3

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another." - John 13:34

"And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." - Ephesians 4:32

"Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous." - 1 Peter 3:8

IOW:
I believe a great deal of the trouble comes from people:
1. Searching the internet for truth instead of searching scripture, AND
2. Leaning on their own understanding instead of discussing things with the LORD (Proverbs 3:5), AND
3. Allowing evil thoughts about others to dwell in their minds.

We can't change others, but we certainly can fellowship with the LORD and see HIS power change us from the inside out.

Speaking evil of others isn't good. Calling out bad teaching is not only good but necessary.

The Bible tells us to test all things. If we test the implication is that some things are accepted and others are rejected. We are called to rightly divide the word, which means more than picking a verse here and there to support the case we're trying to make.

Look at the things Paul said - he asked the Galatians who had bewitched them, said anyone preaching a different gospel should be accursed, named several people as having harmed him, and so on.

Unity is a good thing but not when it comes at the expense of sound doctrine. If we're going to accept bad doctrine in order to achieve unity, should we be seeking unity with Muslims? Hindus? Hare Krishnas? Satanists? Where does it stop?

Truthfrees · Apr 16, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
Yup. Each of us have our opinion and until it actually happens all we have is opinion. No one can prove the other wrong.

True in part.

Each man has his own opinion, but has a choice to lay it down and side with the LORD'S words.

IF believers don't read scripture COPIOUSLY, and DISCUSS it with the LORD, their opinion will be WAY OUT in left field.

A quality discussion needs quality input.

Scripture is quality.

Man's opinion is not.

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