From what law did Paul set us free?

Leaf473 · Jun 8, 2023

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 6:26 - New Living Translation

May the LORD show you his favor and give you his peace.’

www.biblegateway.com

guevaraj · Jun 9, 2023

expos4ever said:
Here, Paul says that Gentiles, who are not under the Law of Moses, have a mysterious access to the principles that underlie the law via their consciences. Fine, I have just affirmed that, indeed, all humans know right from wrong through their consciences. But that does not justify your strange moves of rewriting Pauline references to "the Law" throughout the New Testament - when it is otherwise clear from context that these are indeed references to the Law of Moses - so that they become references to this "law of Judaism".

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 9, 2023 at 12:43 pm EDT! Paul tells us that humans do not have access to God's "order" through the prophets like Moses via their conscience, because the will of God and our sinful nature want the "opposite" to one another. What is common in the law of Judaism and the law of Gentiles was added to the law of Judaism by humans, law which is also found in Gentiles who do not have God's "order" through the prophets like Moses, confirmed by humans replacing Sarah with Hagar to give a son to Abraham when that is the "opposite" of what God wanted and did with the birth of Isaac through Sarah.

So I say, let the ~~Holy~~ Spirit (as Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to do away with the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them as our example to follow) guide your lives. Then you won’t be doing what your sinful nature craves (not to obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments). The sinful nature wants to do evil (disobey Jesus' Eleven Commandments), which is just the opposite of what the Spirit wants (obedience to Jesus' Eleven Commandments). And the Spirit (Jesus is the Spirit who obeys the Ten Commandments best as our example to follow and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments) gives us desires (to obey the Jesus' Eleven Commandments) that are the opposite of what the sinful nature desires (to disobey the Jesus' Eleven Commandments). These two forces are constantly fighting each other, so you are not free to carry out your good intentions (to believe Jesus wanting us to obey His Eleven Commandments). (Galatians 5:16-17 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

Paul wants our more complete obedience to Jesus' previous Ten Commandments than Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments. Not only does Paul use the word "law" differently than we assume, but Paul also uses the word "Spirit" differently than we assume. Paul tells us that Judaism made up their own human "Law" to replace God's "order" through the prophets like Moses. This replacement is not something only done by Judaism in the past for us to learn not to do, because those who say they follow Jesus still do it today by replacing the holiness of the Sabbath with Sunday. Sunday as the Sabbath is an invented human tradition by the bishops of Rome to put Sunday in place of the "day" God asked in the Forth Commandment. Humans have "twisted" Paul's use of the word "Spirit" to have Paul say the "opposite" of his message to defend Sunday, resulting in their "destruction" by teaching disobedience to Jesus' Ten Commandments, clearly referred to in the following passage as "letters etched in stone". Instead of Judaism having faith in obeying God's practice towards mastery of the Ten Commandments, completely obeyed by Jesus' in the flesh exemplary life to follow rather than to follow Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments to not remove sin, Paul is saying that Judaism put their faith in obeying human "law" by substituting God's more demanding "order" by the prophets like Moses with their own less demanding human "law" they felt they could obey without the need for practice towards mastery. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. He who "believes" in Jesus will have the "faith" to obey Jesus' new total of Eleven Commandments and will learn the deception of those who have "twisted" Paul's message in defense of Sunday to use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey Jesus' Eleven Commandments. When Paul tells us, his use of the word "Spirit" refers to Jesus' more complete example of obedience to the Ten Commandments than Judaism's disobedience, humans have "twisted" Paul's use of the word "Spirit" to refer to the Holy Spirit instead of referring to Jesus, to try to get Paul to say the opposite in defense of Sunday. Paul is saying that the glory of following Jesus' more complete obedience to the Ten Commandments in the new covenant is better than the previous glory of following Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments in the old covenant. Paul tells us the word "Spirit" is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit by saying in the following passage: "the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image". Nothing about following the Holy Spirit in defense of Sunday as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the true in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (excusing our disobedience as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus in the flesh as the true example of a life of righteousness to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). This is a covenant not of written laws (like the Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (as Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to do away with the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them as our example to follow). The old written covenant ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but under the new covenant, the Spirit (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow) gives life. The old way (God's "order" by prophets like Moses), with ~~law~~ letters etched in stone (definitely the Ten Commandments), led to death (Sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (leading to righteousness), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory (Eleven Commandments) under the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), now that the ~~Holy~~ Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow) gives life? If the old way (letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). So if the old way (written laws etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the example of Jesus, rather than written instructions on stone) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (obeying all the Ten Commandments, learning to use God's name properly). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (which led to righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (in the flesh as the example to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the Spirit who obeys the Ten Commandments best as our example to follow and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (leading to righteousness). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus in the flesh is the "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus' example of life of righteousness to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Haria · Jun 9, 2023

It's an interesting conversation we're having here. From my understanding, when we talk about the law from which Paul claims to set us free, we're often referring to the Mosaic Law from the Old Testament of the Bible. Paul, in his letters, speaks a lot about how faith in Jesus Christ liberates believers from the strict adherence to these laws.

guevaraj · Jun 9, 2023

Leaf473 said:
From what law did Paul set us free? The entire law

Dahveed said:
I hear you, sinful humans stumbled seeking justification by the works of the law. Rom 3:20

Brothers, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 9, 2023 at 12:43 pm EDT! Paul wants our more complete obedience to Jesus' previous Ten Commandments than Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments. Paul tells us that sinful humans stumbled by making up their own human "Law" to replace God's "order" through the prophets like Moses. This stumbling is not something only done by Judaism in the past for us to learn not to do, because those who say they follow Jesus still do it today by replacing the holiness of the Sabbath with Sunday. Sunday as the Sabbath is an invented human tradition by the bishops of Rome to put Sunday in place of the "day" God asked in the Forth Commandment. Humans have "twisted" Paul's use of the word "Spirit" to have Paul say the "opposite" of his message to defend Sunday, resulting in their "destruction" by teaching disobedience to Jesus' Ten Commandments, clearly referred to in the following passage as "letters etched in stone". Instead of Judaism having faith in obeying God's practice towards mastery of the Ten Commandments, completely obeyed by Jesus' in the flesh exemplary life to follow rather than to follow Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments to not remove sin, Paul is saying that Judaism put their faith in obeying human "law" by substituting God's more demanding "order" by the prophets like Moses with their own less demanding human "law" they felt they could obey without the need for practice towards mastery. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. He who "believes" in Jesus will have the "faith" to obey Jesus' new total of Eleven Commandments and will learn the deception of those who have "twisted" Paul's message in defense of Sunday to use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey Jesus' Eleven Commandments. When Paul tells us, his use of the word "Spirit" refers to Jesus' more complete example of obedience to the Ten Commandments than Judaism's disobedience, humans have "twisted" Paul's use of the word "Spirit" to refer to the Holy Spirit instead of referring to Jesus, to try to get Paul to say the opposite in defense of Sunday. Paul is saying that the glory of following Jesus' more complete obedience to the Ten Commandments in the new covenant is better than the previous glory of following Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments in the old covenant. Paul tells us the word "Spirit" is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit by saying in the following passage: "the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image". Nothing about following the Holy Spirit in defense of Sunday as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the true in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (excusing our disobedience as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus in the flesh as the true example of a life of righteousness to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). This is a covenant not of written laws (like the Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (as Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to do away with the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them as our example to follow). The old written covenant ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but under the new covenant, the Spirit (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow) gives life. The old way (God's "order" by prophets like Moses), with ~~law~~ letters etched in stone (definitely the Ten Commandments), led to death (Sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (leading to righteousness), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory (Eleven Commandments) under the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), now that the ~~Holy~~ Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow) gives life? If the old way (letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). So if the old way (written laws etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the example of Jesus, rather than written instructions on stone) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (obeying all the Ten Commandments, learning to use God's name properly). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (which led to righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (in the flesh as the example to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the Spirit who obeys the Ten Commandments best as our example to follow and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (leading to righteousness). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus in the flesh is the "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus' example of life of righteousness to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj · Jun 9, 2023

freeinhim3 said:
Paul didn't set us free from any law, he didn't have the authority.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 9, 2023 at 12:43 pm EDT! The question refers to the following passage where Paul says that God's grace has set us free from the "law". What "law" is Paul referring to? Paul does not qualify it like some have assumed "of Moses" to eliminate the Ten Commandments when such a qualification of Paul's use of "law" in the passage does not fit the context of Paul's message where he tells us he is not saying we can go on sinning. Sinning being to disobey the Ten Commandments.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (lawlessness)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (lawlessness), which leads to death (like Judaism's example of sabotaging God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus's many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments)! Once you were slaves of sin (lawlessness), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey God's Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)

What "law" is Paul referring to above that God's grace has set us free from? Notice that Paul is not setting us free to sin, which is the purpose of God's Ten Commandments, to keep us from sinning when obeyed. The context reveals that Paul is not setting us free from the Ten Commandments because that would allow us to sin. Paul is saying that the grace of God has set us free from some other "law" whose removal would not allow us to sin. Obviously Paul is referring to the human "law" of Judaism confirmed through Hagar in the following passage. Human "law" in Judaism that sabotaged the Ten Commandments to not remove the sin that the Ten Commandments were meant to remove. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly.

Tell me, you who want to live under the law (the "law" of Judaism that does not remove sin), do you know what the law actually says? (The law says what is sin) The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise (the promise to remove sin from our character). But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them (Judaism is enslaved in sin because they sabotaged God's law to not remove sin). And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery (to sin) ~~to the law~~ (added by the translators, not found in the original). But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman (free from sin), and she is our mother (Sarah). As Isaiah said, “Rejoice, O childless woman (Sarah), you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman (Sarah) now has more children than the woman (Hagar) who lives with her husband!” And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise (the promise to remove sin from our character), just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law (of Judaism that does not remove sin), just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman (Hagar); we are children of the free woman (Sarah). (Galatians 4:21-31 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

Hagar's son to Abraham came from the human will and not from God's will to give Abraham a son through Hagar. Hagar is not the will of God expressed on Mount Sinai but the "human attempt" to fulfill the will of God expressed on Mount Sinai. Therefore, it is not God's "order" through the prophets that are tied to Hagar, but human "law" found in Judaism that come from sinful "blind guides" to use "law" to accomplish God's will expressed on Mount Sinai, that Jesus says in the following passage: "shut the door of the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces". It is not God's "order" through the prophets expressed on Mount Sinai that "shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces", it is Judaism's human replacement "law" for God's "order" through the prophets that "shut the door of the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces".

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Leaf473 · Jun 9, 2023

guevaraj said:
Brothers, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 9, 2023 at 12:43 pm EDT!

Hello, brother!

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 6:26 - New Living Translation

May the LORD show you his favor and give you his peace.’

www.biblegateway.com

guevaraj · Jun 9, 2023

Haria said:
It's an interesting conversation we're having here. From my understanding, when we talk about the law from which Paul claims to set us free, we're often referring to the Mosaic Law from the Old Testament of the Bible. Paul, in his letters, speaks a lot about how faith in Jesus Christ liberates believers from the strict adherence to these laws.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 9, 2023 at 12:43 pm EDT! Paul wants our more complete obedience to Jesus' previous Ten Commandments than Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments. Paul tells us that sinful humans stumbled by making up their own human "Law" to replace God's "order" through the prophets like Moses. This stumbling is not something only done by Judaism in the past for us to learn not to do, because those who say they follow Jesus still do it today by replacing the holiness of the Sabbath with Sunday. Sunday as the Sabbath is an invented human tradition by the bishops of Rome to put Sunday in place of the "day" God asked in the Forth Commandment. Humans have "twisted" Paul's use of the word "Spirit" to have Paul say the "opposite" of his message to defend Sunday, resulting in their "destruction" by teaching disobedience to Jesus' Ten Commandments, clearly referred to in the following passage as "letters etched in stone". Instead of Judaism having faith in obeying God's practice towards mastery of the Ten Commandments, completely obeyed by Jesus' in the flesh exemplary life to follow rather than to follow Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments to not remove sin, Paul is saying that Judaism put their faith in obeying human "law" by substituting God's more demanding "order" by the prophets like Moses with their own less demanding human "law" they felt they could obey without the need for practice towards mastery. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. He who "believes" in Jesus will have the "faith" to obey Jesus' new total of Eleven Commandments and will learn the deception of those who have "twisted" Paul's message in defense of Sunday to use the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey Jesus' Eleven Commandments. When Paul tells us, his use of the word "Spirit" refers to Jesus' more complete example of obedience to the Ten Commandments than Judaism's disobedience, humans have "twisted" Paul's use of the word "Spirit" to refer to the Holy Spirit instead of referring to Jesus, to try to get Paul to say the opposite in defense of Sunday. Paul is saying that the glory of following Jesus' more complete obedience to the Ten Commandments in the new covenant is better than the previous glory of following Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments in the old covenant. Paul tells us the word "Spirit" is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit by saying in the following passage: "the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image". Nothing about following the Holy Spirit in defense of Sunday as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the true in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (excusing our disobedience as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus in the flesh as the true example of a life of righteousness to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). This is a covenant not of written laws (like the Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (as Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to do away with the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them as our example to follow). The old written covenant ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but under the new covenant, the Spirit (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow) gives life. The old way (God's "order" by prophets like Moses), with ~~law~~ letters etched in stone (definitely the Ten Commandments), led to death (Sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (leading to righteousness), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory (Eleven Commandments) under the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), now that the ~~Holy~~ Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow) gives life? If the old way (letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow). So if the old way (written laws etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus' in the flesh example of life of righteousness to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the example of Jesus, rather than written instructions on stone) gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (obeying all the Ten Commandments, learning to use God's name properly). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (which led to righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (in the flesh as the example to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the Spirit who obeys the Ten Commandments best as our example to follow and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (leading to righteousness). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus in the flesh is the "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus' example of life of righteousness to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Leaf473 · Jun 9, 2023

guevaraj said:
Paul wants our more complete obedience to Jesus' previous Ten Commandments than Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments.

Absolutely!

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 51:5-6 - New Living Translation

For I was born a sinner— yes, from the moment my mother conceived me. But you desire honesty from the womb, teaching me wisdom even there.

www.biblegateway.com

Leaf473 · Jun 9, 2023

Haria said:
It's an interesting conversation we're having here. From my understanding, when we talk about the law from which Paul claims to set us free, we're often referring to the Mosaic Law from the Old Testament of the Bible. Paul, in his letters, speaks a lot about how faith in Jesus Christ liberates believers from the strict adherence to these laws.

Definitely, we don't follow laws etched in stone...

Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 3:7 - New Living Translation

The Glory of the New Covenant - <versenum id="7" /> The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away.

www.biblegateway.com

guevaraj · Jun 16, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Absolutely!

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 51:5-6 - New Living Translation

For I was born a sinner— yes, from the moment my mother conceived me. But you desire honesty from the womb, teaching me wisdom even there.

www.biblegateway.com

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 16, 2023 at 12:46 pm EDT! Yes! Paul wants our more complete obedience to Jesus' previous Ten Commandments than Judaism's sabotage of the Ten Commandments. For example, Paul corrects Judaism's human tradition of the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment being wrongly assumed in Jerusalem to be the same as the seventh day of the week since Joshua. Paul, in Hebrews, tells us that for 40 years near Jerusalem, those who died in the desert as punishment were not allowed to enter God's "day" of rest on the Sabbath near Jerusalem for 40 years. Paul tells us the "day" of rest they were prevented from entering for 40 years is the Sabbath by taking this "day" of rest back to creation in the following statement: "They will never enter my rest, even though this rest has been ready since he made the world. We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: On the seventh day God rested from all his work." In brief, God, by "oath", prevented them from entering the Sabbath by having those who died during the 40 years near Jerusalem as punishment, keep with Manna the wrong Sabbath near Jerusalem by having them observe as in Eden the right seventh day of the week. The Sabbath that they later corrected to enter the right "day" of rest in Jerusalem was half a "day" before the right seventh day of the week they had kept during the 40 years earlier with Manna as punishment near Jerusalem.

God’s promise of entering his rest (on the Sabbath) still stands (as taught for 40 years in the desert not to be the same as the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem), so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it (by failing to correct the error in Judaism since Joshua). For this good news—that God has prepared this rest (on the Sabbath)—has been announced to us (by Paul in the book of Hebrews) just as it was to them (having been taught for 40 years in the desert that the Sabbath is not the same as the seventh day of the week near Jerusalem). But it did them (like Joshua) no good because they didn’t share the faith of those who listened to God (which blinded them to the fact that the Sabbath in Jerusalem is not the same as the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem). For only we who believe (Paul's second chance to correct the Sabbath in the book of Hebrews) can enter his rest (on the true Sabbath worldwide fixed in the time zone of creation in Eden and not just a human tradition in Judaism correct in Jerusalem but nowhere else). As for the others (who perished for 40 years in the desert), God said, “In my anger I took an oath (preventing the removal of the punishment for 40 years even if God forgave them): ‘They will never enter my rest (on the Sabbath),’” even though this rest (on the Sabbath) has been ready since he made the world (having been established on the first week of creation in Eden). We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: “On the seventh day God rested from all his work” (establishing the Sabbath in Eden). But in the other passage God said, “They will never enter my place of rest” (by "oath" God prevented them with Manna from entering the right Sabbath near Jerusalem). So God’s rest (on the Sabbath) is there for people to enter (when corrected from human error since Joshua), but those who first heard this good news (who died for 40 years in the desert) failed to enter because they disobeyed God (being punished with manna for 40 years to prevent them from entering the correct Sabbath near Jerusalem). So God set another time for entering his rest (on the Sabbath), and that time is today (through Paul's second chance to correct the Sabbath in the book of Hebrews). God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” (when you listen to the facts of the true seventh day of the week from morning to morning found in Genesis and in the story of Manna) Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest (on the Sabbath), God would not have spoken about another day (which is a half a day earlier than the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem) of rest (on the Sabbath) still to come. (when Judaism's human tradition that the Sabbath is the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem is corrected from human error recognizing that it falls in Jerusalem a half day before the seventh day of the week). So there is a special rest (where the Sabbath is not the same as the seventh day of the week) still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest (on the Sabbath) have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. (giving us a fixed Sabbath in the time zone of creation in Eden) So let us do our best to enter that rest (on the Sabbath). But if we disobey God (keeping the human tradition in Judaism), as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (because the Sabbath is foundational in the new covenant in giving certainty over many other truths in the Bible that prepare us for Jesus' soon return) (Hebrews 4:1-11 NLT overlaid with commentary)

This Sabbath as different than the seventh day in Jerusalem is verified in the following passage, where the Sabbath in Jerusalem ends on an evening before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem ends on a morning. The fact is that Sunday is never used in the Bible and where Sunday is translated in the Bible, it actually refers to Saturday. No one until now had questioned that God's expression: "the first of the Sabbaths" refers to something other than Sunday when referring to Saturday, another way of referring to the seventh day of the creation week we call Saturday. This expression by God for Saturday is necessary because the Sabbath falls between two days of the week in the Promised Land. The Sabbath in the Promised Land falls and takes halves between Friday and Saturday, so you only get half of a Friday and half of a Saturday in the Promised Land, with a Sabbath taking halves between those two days, giving us the following order: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Sabbath, and Saturday, the Sabbath being an eighth division in the seven-day week.

The "evening" ending the Sabbath in the Promised Land is part of Saturday, as shown in the passage below where God uses an expression that was not previously understood: "the first of the Sabbaths". This expression refers to the first Sabbath of creation week or another way of saying the seventh day of the week that we call Saturday. I will use Saturday for the seventh day as different from the Sabbath, which is separate from the seventh day in the Promised Land, to correct the translation of this "expression" of God. Below, "as it dawns beyond Saturday" refers to the end of the second half of Saturday, the night half from evening to morning, where Jesus rose on a Saturday night after the Sabbath in the Promised Land and before the morning begins Sunday, as the days of creation are corrected from human tradition since Joshua by Paul in Hebrews. This means, Jesus rose on a Saturday night, after the Sabbath ended in the "evening", as that same "evening" began what God called "night" until Sunday began in the "morning". We speak from the point of view of what begins in the "morning", when the Bible speaks from the point of view of what ends in the "morning".

long after the Sabbath (evening), as it dawns beyond Saturday (morning), came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary, to see the tomb. (Mathew 28:1, my own translation)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Leaf473 · Jun 16, 2023

guevaraj said:
For example, Paul corrects Judaism's human tradition of the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment being wrongly assumed in Jerusalem to be the same as the seventh day of the week since Joshua.

Brother, Grace and peace to you, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!

Paul corrects other things too, doesn't he! Like tithing used to be a tenth given to the Levites. Now it's what we purpose in our hearts (a change in amount) set aside to be given to poor brothers and sisters (a change in destination).
"Remember this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly. He who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver."

Leaf473 · Jun 16, 2023

guevaraj said:
(by Paul in the book of Hebrews)

Brother, do the scriptures say that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews?

United in searching God's truths!

guevaraj · Jun 16, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Brother, do the scriptures say that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews?

Brother, the strongest evidence comes from his benediction of Hebrews. Paul makes his customary exit, citing his fellow worker and faithful servant, Timothy:

I urge you, dear brothers and sisters, to pay attention to what I have written in this brief exhortation. I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released from jail. If he comes here soon, I will bring him with me to see you. Greet all your leaders and all the believers there. The believers from Italy send you their greetings. May God’s grace be with you all. (Hebrews 13:22-25 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Leaf473 · Jun 16, 2023

guevaraj said:
Brother, the strongest evidence comes from his benediction of Hebrews. Paul makes his customary exit, citing his fellow worker and faithful servant, Timothy:

I urge you, dear brothers and sisters, to pay attention to what I have written in this brief exhortation. I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released from jail. If he comes here soon, I will bring him with me to see you. Greet all your leaders and all the believers there. The believers from Italy send you their greetings. May God’s grace be with you all. (Hebrews 13:22-25 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you!

Every Christian would have considered Timothy their brother, wouldn't they? And we know that Timothy wasn't always with Paul. As 1 Timothy opens up
As I urged you when I was going into Macedonia, stay at Ephesus that you might command certain men not to teach a different doctrine and not to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which cause disputes, rather than God’s stewardship.

United in searching God's word!

Leaf473 · Jun 21, 2023

guevaraj said:
Brother, the strongest evidence comes from his benediction of Hebrews. Paul makes his customary exit, citing his fellow worker and faithful servant, Timothy:

I urge you, dear brothers and sisters, to pay attention to what I have written in this brief exhortation. I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released from jail. If he comes here soon, I will bring him with me to see you. Greet all your leaders and all the believers there. The believers from Italy send you their greetings. May God’s grace be with you all. (Hebrews 13:22-25 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you!

This was on my mind today,
This is the day the Lord has made.
We will rejoice and be glad in it.
-New Living Translation

United in posting God's word!

Dahveed · Jun 21, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Brother, may the Lord bless you and keep you!

This was on my mind today,
This is the day the Lord has made.
We will rejoice and be glad in it.

This was the Lord’s doing;
It is marvelous in our eyes Ps 118:21-24

Remember that you were once in bondage and the Lord your God redeemed you; Deut 15:15
Today you have declared the Lord to be your God; Deut 26:17
Today the Lord has declared that you are His people, His treasured possession, just as He promised you; Deut 26:18
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people; Deut 32:43
And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; Romans 15:7-11
For once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; 1 Peter 2:10

Leaf473 · Jun 21, 2023

Dahveed said:
This was the Lord’s doing;
It is marvelous in our eyes Ps 118:21-24

Remember that you were once in bondage and the Lord your God redeemed you; Deut 15:15
Today you have declared the Lord to be your God; Deut 26:17
Today the Lord has declared that you are His people, His treasured possession, just as He promised you; Deut 26:18
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people; Deut 32:43
And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; Romans 15:7-11
For once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; 1 Peter 2:10

Awesome scriptures, every one!

guevaraj · Jun 23, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Every Christian would have considered Timothy their brother, wouldn't they? And we know that Timothy wasn't always with Paul.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 23, 2023 at 12:48 pm EDT! The historical context in Rome, Italy, of Paul's message to the Hebrews can help strengthen this identification. Timothy was not in prison in the Philippians passage below written as Paul's last letter from his first imprisonment in Rome, Italy, before writing Hebrews. Placing Timothy in "Jail" after Philippians and before the destruction of the temple that would have been mentioned in Paul's message to the Hebrews. Paul only had one person to spread the good news of Jesus Christ when he tells us Timothy was like "no one else" who genuinely cared about what mattered to Jesus Christ during that time in Rome, Italy, as Paul describes having "no one else like Timothy" in the following passage.

If the Lord Jesus is willing, I hope to send Timothy to you soon for a visit. Then he can cheer me up by telling me how you are getting along. I have no one else like Timothy, who genuinely cares about your welfare. All the others care only for themselves and not for what matters to Jesus Christ. But you know how Timothy has proved himself. Like a son with his father, he has served with me in preaching the Good News. I hope to send him to you just as soon as I find out what is going to happen to me here. And I have confidence from the Lord that I myself will come to see you soon. (Philippians 2:19-24 NLT)

Paul, released after the letter to the Philippians, allowed him to travel with Timothy. Timothy's imprisonment would have delayed Paul's travel plans and given him time to write Hebrews as he found out what was going to happen to Timothy. Without the youthful enthusiasm of Timothy to spread the good news of Jesus Christ, Paul is now being slowed down by Timothy's incarceration, allowing Paul to write Hebrews without haste. Paul was in Rome, Italy, when he wrote Hebrews. Timothy, after his time in "Jail", would want to coordinate with his only ally on what matters to Jesus Christ, as Paul described their serving together in preaching the Good News.

I urge you, dear brothers and sisters, to pay attention to what I have written in this brief exhortation. I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released from jail. If he comes here soon, I will bring him with me to see you. Greet all your leaders and all the believers there. The believers from Italy send you their greetings. May God’s grace be with you all. (Hebrews 13:22-25 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

guevaraj · Jun 23, 2023

Dahveed said:
“Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people; Deut 32:43
And again, “Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles; Romans 15:7-11
For once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; 1 Peter 2:10

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 23, 2023 at 12:48 pm EDT! Gentiles are not God's people! Gentiles are those who are not God's people. Those of us who follow Jesus are now part of "all Israel". We are no longer Gentiles if we "come in" to the part of "all Israel" that follows Jesus. Verified is our understanding in the following passage that Gentiles "come in" to "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but part of "all Israel" by the word "citizenship" in the second Ephesians passage below.

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the FULL NUMBER of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:25b-29 NIV)

We who follow Jesus have "come in" to "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but part of "all Israel". Verified in this next passage through "citizenship" in Israel, we are no longer Gentiles, but part of "all Israel". Gentiles are the rest of the people who do not follow God.

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ... Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household (Ephesians 2:12,13,19 NIV)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Leaf473 · Jun 23, 2023

guevaraj said:
Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday June 23, 2023 at 12:48 pm EDT! The historical context in Rome, Italy, of Paul's message to the Hebrews can help strengthen this identification. Timothy was not in prison in the Philippians passage below written as Paul's last letter from his first imprisonment in Rome, Italy, before writing Hebrews. Placing Timothy in "Jail" after Philippians and before the destruction of the temple that would have been mentioned in Paul's message to the Hebrews. Paul only had one person to spread the good news of Jesus Christ when he tells us Timothy was like "no one else" who genuinely cared about what mattered to Jesus Christ during that time in Rome, Italy, as Paul describes having "no one else like Timothy" in the following passage.

If the Lord Jesus is willing, I hope to send Timothy to you soon for a visit. Then he can cheer me up by telling me how you are getting along. I have no one else like Timothy, who genuinely cares about your welfare. All the others care only for themselves and not for what matters to Jesus Christ. But you know how Timothy has proved himself. Like a son with his father, he has served with me in preaching the Good News. I hope to send him to you just as soon as I find out what is going to happen to me here. And I have confidence from the Lord that I myself will come to see you soon. (Philippians 2:19-24 NLT)

Paul, released after the letter to the Philippians, allowed him to travel with Timothy. Timothy's imprisonment would have delayed Paul's travel plans and given him time to write Hebrews as he found out what was going to happen to Timothy. Without the youthful enthusiasm of Timothy to spread the good news of Jesus Christ, Paul is now being slowed down by Timothy's incarceration, allowing Paul to write Hebrews without haste. Paul was in Rome, Italy, when he wrote Hebrews. Timothy, after his time in "Jail", would want to coordinate with his only ally on what matters to Jesus Christ, as Paul described their serving together in preaching the Good News.

I urge you, dear brothers and sisters, to pay attention to what I have written in this brief exhortation. I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released from jail. If he comes here soon, I will bring him with me to see you. Greet all your leaders and all the believers there. The believers from Italy send you their greetings. May God’s grace be with you all. (Hebrews 13:22-25 NLT)

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, Grace and peace to you, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ!

Those are interesting ideas, but hardly conclusive.

"This is why I remind you to fan into flames the spiritual gift God gave you when I laid my hands on you."
-New Living Translation

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From what law did Paul set us free?

From what law did Paul set us free?

the law of Judaism

the law of God

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