From what law did Paul set us free?

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath, which starts this Friday May 5, 2023 at 12:21 pm EDT! What came from God is the word "order" (diatassó) and not the word "law" (nomos) in the passage. Paul's use of another word than "law" to refer to God's will through prophets like Moses, undoubtedly shows what is verified by comparing Judaism with Hagar: Paul's use of the word "law" refers to the human will to give Abraham a son through Hagar rather than the will of God to give Abraham a son through Sarah. In brief: Paul's "law" refers to the human will in Hagar rather than the will of God in Sarah. People have assumed the opposite, in contradiction to Paul's call to obey God, rather than Judaism's disobedience of replacing God's "order" with human "law" to make obeying more bearable by eliminating the need to learn to separate the sin that God's "order" removes if obeyed, which they nullified by human "law" skipping the cycle of removing sin through many animal sacrifices. Judaism effectively put their faith in their human "law", rather than in God's "order" through the prophets. In brief, the fact there is no doubt that Paul is using another word to refer to the will of God shows that Paul's use of the word "law" does not refer to the will of God shared by the prophets like Moses. There is no change in focus in the use of the word "law" by Paul in the following passage, because when Paul refers to God's "order" through the prophets, Paul uses a different word: "order" (diatassó) than the word "law" (nomos), which he reserves to refer to the human "law" of Judaism. The translators have changed words, mystifying what was plain, by causing the translation to lean toward their established views, which were governed by tradition. They changed the word "added" (prostithémi) to "given", because the translators assumed the word "law" to be God's "order" through the prophets, in contradiction to the rest of Paul's message when he tells us to obey God rather than sin in what he calls "slaves to righteous living" rather than "slave to sin". "Slave to sin" by blind guides replacing God's "order" through the prophets with human "law" that allow them to keep the sin that God's "order" through the prophets was given to remove. For example, instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human law to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. As Jesus tells us, Judaism "shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces" with their own human "law" replacing God's "order" through the prophets.

Why, then, was the law (of Judaism) added? It was added alongside the promise (of the glory of God in the Ten Commandments) to show people their sins. But the law (of Judaism) was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised (to be the glory of God as the example to follow). God gave his order through messengers (known as prophets), who are the mediator (like Moses) between God and the people. Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham. (Galatians 3:19-20 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Paul used the word “order” by the prophets as distinct from the word “law” by the Jews, comparing them to Hagar. Hagar means the word "law" used by Paul clearly refers to human "law" when Paul compares Judaism to Hagar. God's “order” through the prophets is a subset of all the laws of the Jews. Paul does not want us to follow the human “law” of the Jews, but he does want us to follow God's “order" through the prophets as a subset of all the laws of the Jews. Paul’s use of the word “law” does not refer to God's “order” through the prophets, as people have assumed, in contradiction to Paul telling us in the following passage that he does obey God's “order” through the prophets for a total of Eleven Commandments in the new covenant. In the next passage, Paul wants us to obey God rather than sin. Sin is kept by human "law" that was added to Judaism by blind guides whom Jesus tells us “shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces”. They do this by their own human "law", replacing God's "order" through the prophets. God's "order" through the prophets is for all believers that put their faith in God's ability to use His "order" through the prophets to separate sin from our character, that human "law" by the Jews sabotaged to not remove sin because they are blind guides putting their faith in their human "law" when their "human effort" to obey led to keeping their sin rather than separate from their sin by putting their faith in God's "order" through the prophets as written.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (lawlessness)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (lawlessness), which leads to death (like Judaism's example of sabotaging God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin when they replace the proper use of God's name in the Third Commandment with not using God's name at all), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus' many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through the repetitive practice of the Eleven Commandments)! Once you were slaves of sin (lawlessness), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey God's Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hello, Brother!

Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

Would you agree that nomos is used twice in this passage?

Bible Gateway passage: ΠΡΟΣ ΓΑΛΑΤΑΣ 3:10 - SBL Greek New Testament

Ὅσοι γὰρ ἐξ ἔργων νόμου εἰσὶν ὑπὸ κατάραν εἰσίν, γέγραπται γὰρ ὅτι Ἐπικατάρατος πᾶς ὃς οὐκ ἐμμένει πᾶσιν τοῖς γεγραμμένοις ἐν τῷ βιβλίῳ τοῦ νόμου τοῦ ποιῆσαι αὐτά.

www.biblegateway.com

Would you agree that "works of law" is a possible translation (see footnote)?

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 3:10 - New American Standard Bible

For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written: “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT ABIDE BY ALL THE THINGS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF THE LAW, TO DO THEM.”

www.biblegateway.com

Does any of this affect what you're saying?

United in seeking God's truths!

 

[expos4ever]

Hi everyone. Here is the essence of an argument we are being asked to consider:

Paul tells us in the next passage that Judaism is under a curse because Judaism does not obey "all" that God asked,....

But those who depend on the law (of Judaism) to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law (which Judaism does not obey when they replace the proper use of God's name in the Third Commandment with not using God's name at all).” (from Galatians 3:10-12 NLT overlaid with commentary)

First, let me point out that this poster has added material to this text from Galatians - the stuff in parentheses is his own addition. To be fair, he does acknowledge this with "overlaid with commentary".

Now then, what is the essence of the argument? It is that the curse arises specifically in virtue of the fact that the Jew took certain elements of the Law and substituted their own version - thus we get the comment "which Judaism does not obey when they replace the proper use of God's name in the Third Commandment with not using God's name at all"

Do you see the trick? Where does Paul actually say the essence of the curse lies in such substitution? Of course, he says no such thing - this is an addition to Paul's words! What Paul actually says, of course, is "cursed is everyone who does not obey ALL the elements of the Law. One need not be Norman Einstein to realize that one can fail to obey ALL the elements of the Law without adding any "law of Judaism" at all.

So already, a red flag is rippling crisply in the cool morning air - Paul says one thing, but the poster making the argument has him saying a different thing.

Now, to be fair, the poster at least makes an effort to justify this act of editorialization - he appeals, as he repeatedly does, to the Hagar story:

Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the Law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the slave woman [s]was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 [t]This is speaking allegorically, for these women are two covenants: one coming from Mount Sinai giving birth to children [u]who are to be slaves; [v]she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is enslaved with her children.

Notice something? The Hagar story nowhere even hints at the notion that Hagar was someone who was "following a law of Judaism"! And yet the poster makes this claim (I added the underline):

The "curse" and the "guardian" examples are evidence that the problem for Paul is Judaism's human replacement rules for God's law when Paul compares Judaism to Hagar. For example, instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human rule to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly.

Here is what, I suggest, is going on here: the poster needs the "curse" of Galatians 3 to be anything other than the Law itself even though it certainly appears that the Law itself is the problem, to wit:

For all who are of works of [m]the Law are under a curse;...

So what is the strategy? It is to look for something other than the Law itself that can be "framed" as the curse. And so we get this idea of a "law of Judaism" - man-made distortions to the Law. Such distortions are being put in the position of being the curse. Well, where is the argument? Anything can be hypothesized as being the thing Paul associates with the concept of a curse.

There is no argument offered of course. Remember: as we have seen in this post of mine, Paul never introduces this notion of a "law of Judaism" anywhere in the vicinity of Galatians 3. Second, the Hagar story, used by the poster to defend his hypothesis, has nothing whatsoever to do with a Law of Moses.

You are being presented with an argument that essentially amounts to an arbitrary, meritless, speculation that contravenes the plain sense of Paul's words - if Paul says the curse is from not obeying all the elements of the Law, why not take him at this word - if you do not do all of what the Law requires, you are under a curse. Why add in an additional criterion - that of substituting your own rules for the rules prescribed by the Law.

A final point - there is no denying that the Jews did indeed "substitute" their own laws for God's laws - no one is denying this. But just because a fact X is true does not make X relevant in any context whatsoever!

Besides, there is another huge problem with the argument this poster is setting forth - Romans 7. As I will argue in my next post, that chapter makes it quite clear - it is the Law itself, not man-made additions to it, that is the "curse".

 

[expos4ever]

Paul uses a different word: "order" (diatassó) than the word "law" (nomos), which he reserves to refer to the human "law" of Judaism.

This is clearly incorrect - Paul systematically uses the word "nomos", throughout his writing, to refer to the Law of Moses. To wit:

For all who have sinned [j]without the Law will also perish [k]without the Law, and all who have sinned [l]under the Law will be judged [m]by the Law;

Here the word "law" comes from "nomos" and clearly denotes the real Law, not a "law of Judaism"

3 for it is not the hearers [n]of the Law who are [o]righteous before God, but the doers [p]of the Law who will be justified.

Here the word "law" comes from "nomos" and clearly denotes the real Law, not a "law of Judaism"

For when Gentiles who do not have [q]the Law [r]instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having [s]the Law, are a law to themselves,

Here the word "law" comes from "nomos" and clearly denotes the real Law, not a "law of Judaism"

because by the works [l]of the Law [m]none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for [n]through the Law comes [o]knowledge of sin.

Here the word "law" comes from "nomos" and clearly denotes the real Law, not a "law of Judaism"

Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? [a]Far from it! For if a law had been given that was able to impart life, then righteousness [b]would indeed have been [c]based on law

Here the word "law" comes from "nomos" and clearly denotes the real Law, not a "law of Judaism"

I could go on and on and on and on.

Paul most certainly does not reserve the word "nomos" to refer to this "law of Judaism" of yours.

 

[guevaraj]

Would you agree that nomos is used twice in this passage?

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 12, 2023 at 12:26 pm EDT! Yes, the word law appears twice in the passage, one time used by Paul and the other time is a quote from what we know as the Old Testament. Paul is expressing with the word "law" what Jesus tells us Judaism does: "teach man-made ideas as commands from God". In Paul's vocabulary, Judaism does teach human "law" as God's "order" through the prophets. Judaism disobeyed God's will by replacing God's will with their own human "law", placing them under the curse of not obeying "all" of God's orders through the prophets. For example, instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human law to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly.

‘Cursed is anyone who does not affirm and obey the terms of these instructions.’ And all the people will reply, ‘Amen.’ (Deuteronomy 27:26 NLT)​

Would you agree that "works of law" is a possible translation (see footnote)?

Yes! Work they were willing to do in their "human effort" to replace what God wanted. For example, instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. Paul's use of the word "law" stresses Jesus' message in the following passage where Judaism does: "teach man-made ideas as commands from God".

So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.” Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’ For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:5-13 NLT)​

Does any of this affect what you're saying?

No! Paul tells us in the next passage that Judaism is under a curse because they disobeyed the Third Commandment of using God's name properly when they chose not to use God's name at all. Placing Judaism under the curse because they do not obey "all" that God asked, like Cain chose not to obey "all" that God asked. Cain's disobedience is in contrast to his brother Abel, who did "all" that God asked. Abel is an example of faith for all of us who follow Abel's faith of obeying God and not human will replacing God's will like Cain did, instead of obeying God. God is not a blind guide to remove non-human sin, like Cain is a blind guide to non-human law, and the rest of the human race are blind guides to non-human law. Only God is not a blind guide to non-human law to use His "order" by the prophets to separate sin against God from our character through the practice of daily repetition made clear by the death of so many animal sacrifices before the Father made Jesus our High Priest to forgive sins through prayer. A practice of separating sin from our character of daily repetition like someone learning to master playing the piano, which Paul calls "slaves to righteous living" rather than "slave to sin".

But those who depend on the law (of Judaism) to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law (which Judaism does not obey when they replace the proper use of God's name in the Third Commandment with not using God's name at all).” So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law (of Judaism). For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith (that obeys all that God commands in contrast to human rules by blind guides replacing what God commands) that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith (that obeys all that God commands and not human rules by blind guides replacing what God commands) is very different from the way of law (of Judaism), which says, “It is through obeying the law (of Judaism) that a person has life.” (Galatians 3:10-12 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

This is clearly incorrect - Paul systematically uses the word "nomos", throughout his writing, to refer to the Law of Moses... Paul most certainly does not reserve the word "nomos" to refer to this "law of Judaism" of yours.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 12, 2023 at 12:26 pm EDT! In Romans 2 it is revealed that we humans can write our own "law" that shows sin, independent of God. When we don't obey this human "law", the passage in Romans 2 tells us that all of us are condemned by this human "law" before God. However, to understand the passage in Romans 2, we must first understand Romans 11 where we are no longer Gentiles if we enter into the part of "all Israel" that follows Jesus. Verified is our understanding that Gentiles "come in" to "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but part of "all Israel" by the word "citizenship" in Ephesians. Critical to the proper understanding of the book of Romans' use of the word Gentiles for people who do not follow God is the following passage where we "come in" to the "part" of "all Israel" that accepted Jesus and are no longer Gentiles when we follow Jesus!

Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the FULL NUMBER of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. (Romans 11:25b-29 NIV)​

We who follow Jesus have "come in" to "all Israel" and are no longer Gentiles but part of "all Israel". Verified in this next passage through "citizenship" in Israel, we are no longer Gentiles, but part of "all Israel". Gentiles are the rest of the people who do not follow God.

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ... Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household (Ephesians 2:12,13,19 NIV)​

Paul's comparison of Jews who follow God and Gentiles who do not follow God agreeing in the following passage about a "law" shows that the "law" Paul speaks of comes from us humans and not from God when Gentiles agree with the "law" of the Jews without previously knowing this "law" of the Jews. This Jewish "law", written also in the hearts of the Gentiles who do not follow God, is agreed upon because it comes from us humans and not from God, when Gentiles instinctively agree with this "law" of the Jews. Gentiles, who do not follow orders by the prophets from God because they are "hostile" and it is revealed that they "never will" obey God, show this "law" by Paul is coming from us humans, when Gentiles instinctively obey the "law" of the Jews, because it is also written in their own human hearts: their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. Our human courts are full of this human wisdom written in our own human "law" that accuses us all of doing wrong before God if we disobey our human "law".

When the Gentiles sin (break their own human law), they will be destroyed, even though they never had the law (of Judaism). And the Jews, who do have the law (of Judaism), will be judged by that law (of Judaism) when they fail to obey it. For merely listening to the law (of Judaism) doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law (of Judaism) that makes us right in his sight. Even Gentiles, who do not have the law (of Judaism), show that they know the law (of Judaism) when they instinctively obey it (in a human court of justice), even without having heard it. They demonstrate that the law (of Judaism) is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life (whether they did what they knew to be right or not). (Romans 2:12-16 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

The following passage confirms with the word "hostile" and the phrase "never will" obey, that the Gentiles above who do not follow God can not agree with the Jews about the will of God in God's "order" through the prophets like Moses. Therefore, they must agree with human "law" when Paul compares Judaism to Hagar, where they replaced God's "order" by the prophets with a human "law" that does not take away sin to the level that obeying God does take away sin and added their own human "law" to show more sin instinctively known to all of us within the human experience. For example, human courts punish defamation of the name of other humans, but not the defamation of the name of God, when many humans curse God's name. Gentiles who do not follow God recognize it is wrong to misuse other peoples' names but will not hesitate to misuse God's name. Their sin of misusing God's name, recognized in their own human law, leads to their death when the day comes when God judges everyone's secret life, because they do what they "instinctively" know is wrong.

Those who are dominated by the sinful nature (law breaker) think about sinful things (breaking the law), but those who are controlled by the Spirit (Jesus' being God is the example Spirit to follow because God is Spirit) think about things that please the Spirit (Jesus' being God is Spirit). So letting your sinful nature (law breaker) control your mind leads to death (breaking the law). But letting the Spirit (Jesus' example to follow) control your mind leads to life (freedom from sin) and peace (being right with God). For the sinful nature (law breaker) is always hostile to God. It never did obey God’s laws, and it never will. That’s why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature (law breaker) can never please God. (Romans 8:5-8 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

For example, instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human law to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly.

‘Cursed is anyone who does not affirm and obey the terms of these instructions.’ And all the people will reply, ‘Amen.’ (Deuteronomy 27:26 NLT)

Brother, Grace and peace to you

Are you saying that people who disobey the law of Judaism are cursed, but people who disobey the law that God gave to Israel in the wilderness are not cursed?

If so, then we disagree

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 19:5-7 - New International Reader's Version

The sun is like a groom leaving the room of his wedding night. The sun is like a great runner who takes delight in running a race. It rises at one end of the heavens. Then it moves across to the other end. Everything enjoys its warmth. The law of the LORD is perfect. It gives us new strength...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[expos4ever]

When the Gentiles sin (break their own human law), they will be destroyed, even though they never had the law (of Judaism). And the Jews, who do have the law (of Judaism), will be judged by that law (of Judaism) when they fail to obey it. For merely listening to the law (of Judaism) doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law (of Judaism) that makes us right in his sight. Even Gentiles, who do not have the law (of Judaism), show that they know the law (of Judaism) when they instinctively obey it (in a human court of justice), even without having heard it. They demonstrate that the law (of Judaism) is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. And this is the message I proclaim—that the day is coming when God, through Christ Jesus, will judge everyone’s secret life (whether they did what they knew to be right or not). (Romans 2:12-16 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)

Oh my.

Once again we have you rewriting scripture to suit your purposes,

Let's go over this text that you massively misrepresent.

Verse 12 as written by Paul:

When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.

..and now your rewriting of verse 12:

When the Gentiles sin (break their own human law), they will be destroyed, even though they never had the law (of Judaism). And the Jews, who do have the law (of Judaism), will be judged by that law (of Judaism) when they fail to obey it.

You are radically changing the meaning of the text, and you seem to think this is acceptable.

Paul is talking about the Law of Moses here, not a law of Judaism - I challenge you to find one reputable scholar who believes that he is talking about a "law of Judaism" - you do not get to rewrite the Bible!!!

Even if it were not painfully obvious that Paul is talking about God is fair even though Jews are under the Law of Moses and Gentiles are not, your rewrite makes no sense for the following reason: You have Paul saying that God will judge Jews by the Law of Judaism. Did you think this through? You have told us elsewhere that the Law of Judaism is a perversion to the Law of Moses. And now you are telling us that God will judge Jews according a law that, in fact, represents a perversion of God's real law. Madness!

Is there any other Adventist here who agrees with what guevaraj is saying here?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sister, the rebellion of our "fallen" mother church spoken of in the Bible remained uncorrected by most protestants until the fulfillment of the 2300-year prophesy in 1844 brought it to light again. He who goes to an earthly confessional booth to gain forgiveness for his sins is putting aside the worship due Jesus in heaven in the following passage. Jesus serves daily as our High Priest in the heavenly temple to forgive sins. This heavenly ministry was cast down to earth by the bishops of Rome with the confessional, who were also those who were the official state church of the Roman Empire who destroyed the temple in 70 AD. The word "sacrifices" crossed out after the word "daily", is not in the original and was added to the Septuagint Hebrew to Greek translation. The translators, thinking they were helping, when Jesus' "daily" forgivenesses do not cause Him to die over and over again, to forgive our past sins when we turn daily in prayer to Jesus for the forgiveness of our past sins, like the death of so many animal sacrifices in the stand-in earthly temple "copy" before Jesus' death. Jesus' single death validates all His forgivenesses prior and subsequent to His death in his daily service as our High Priest in the heavenly temple.

It even challenged the Commander of heaven’s army by canceling the daily sacrifices offered to him and by destroying his Temple. The army of heaven was restrained from responding to this rebellion. So the daily sacrifice was halted, and truth was overthrown. The horn succeeded in everything it did. Then I heard two holy ones talking to each other. One of them asked, “How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven’s army be trampled on?” (Daniel 8:11-13 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Christianity wasn’t the official religion of Rome until over 300 years after the temple was destroyed. Rome was persecuting Christians until Constantine signed the Edict of Milan in 313ad

 

[BNR32FAN]

Brother, you are relying on a bad translation you prefer over a better translation in the following passage! Paul knows that the Ten Commandments can be sabotaged by human rules, as in the story of Hagar, so that they don't take away sin. This sabotage is found in Judaism. For this reason, instead of focusing on obedience to the law of Judaism, as Judaism did by making up their own rules to help them obey the law of God, Paul focused on the purpose of the Ten Commandments to remove sin. By focusing on sin instead of obedience to the law of Judaism, Paul protects God's Ten Commandments from human rules that sabotage the purpose of God's law to take away sin when obeyed.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances (human rules), that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. (Ephesians 2:14-16 ESV)​

We need to do what God asks and not follow our own human rules, because God is not a "blind guide" to use laws to remove sin that our own rules do not remove. Judaism leads to death because they have substituted many of God's laws with their own rules that do not remove sin. Paul wants you to keep the law of God without talking about obedience to the law of Judaism when he focuses instead on the purpose of the law of God to take away sin when obeyed.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Paul specifically stated that we do not need to keep the Sabbath but all of the moral laws still remain intact in his teachings.

“Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Brother, you are relying on a bad translation you prefer over a better translation in the following passage! Paul knows that the Ten Commandments can be sabotaged by human rules, as in the story of Hagar, so that they don't take away sin. This sabotage is found in Judaism. For this reason, instead of focusing on obedience to the law of Judaism, as Judaism did by making up their own rules to help them obey the law of God, Paul focused on the purpose of the Ten Commandments to remove sin. By focusing on sin instead of obedience to the law of Judaism, Paul protects God's Ten Commandments from human rules that sabotage the purpose of God's law to take away sin when obeyed.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances (human rules), that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. (Ephesians 2:14-16 ESV)​

We need to do what God asks and not follow our own human rules, because God is not a "blind guide" to use laws to remove sin that our own rules do not remove. Judaism leads to death because they have substituted many of God's laws with their own rules that do not remove sin. Paul wants you to keep the law of God without talking about obedience to the law of Judaism when he focuses instead on the purpose of the law of God to take away sin when obeyed.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Paul taught that we are under the law of Spirit not the law of sin & death. The law of sin & death is the Mosaic law.

“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The law of Spirit does not omit the moral laws.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Brother, at Mount Sinai they received the promise of freedom from sin by practicing obeying the Ten Commandments: like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. The Ten Commandments alone does not permit this mastery through practice, but Jesus gave us what the Ten Commandments could not: mastery through practice by way of many forgivenesses for past sins, made clear through the daily death of so many animal sacrifices. As our High Priest, Jesus' cycle of many forgivenesses for past sins allows mastery of obeying the Ten Commandments through practice: like someone who learns to play the piano through practice, not something you master on the first try. However, like in the story of Hagar, Judaism's "human effort" to fulfill the promise to obey by substituting the law of God with their own rules did not remove the sin that the Ten Commandments were meant to remove. For example, to obey not to misuse God's name, they substituted what God asked to properly use His name with their own rule not to pronounce God's name at all. This substitution stopped them from having to learn to properly use God's name, stopping the removal of that sin from their character. It is their slavery to sin by their own "human effort" to sabotage the law of God to not remove sin, which leads to death, as Paul tells us in the following passage.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (lawlessness)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (lawlessness), which leads to death (like Judaism's example of sabotaging God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus's many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments)! Once you were slaves of sin (lawlessness), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey God's Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

You keep saying that the Jews substituted the 10 commandments with their own laws but that is not accurate my friend. The Jews simply added more laws, they didn’t take away anything. The reason they added more laws was because they had to define what exactly the laws meant. For example thou shall not work on the Sabbath. They had to define what was considered to be work so they created laws forbidding things that they considered to be work because the term work was not defined by God when He gave the commandment.

 

[guevaraj]

Christianity wasn’t the official religion of Rome until over 300 years after the temple was destroyed. Rome was persecuting Christians until Constantine signed the Edict of Milan in 313ad

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 19, 2023 at 12:31 pm EDT! The word of God reveals that the most effective empire builder in history is Rome in hijacking the church of Jesus to achieve world supremacy. This church's historical effort to eliminate their opposition, the true followers of Jesus, will ultimately eliminate every follower of Jesus if Jesus does not stop them when Jesus returns to save His followers. To understand the threat more clearly, it is as if one denomination put human tradition over Jesus' word and sought to eliminate all rival denominations by torture and death, demanding that the followers of Jesus recant or die for correcting their human traditions in opposition to Jesus' word. Human traditions which are contrary to Jesus' word, as Jesus corrected Judaism in the following passage. This denomination would torture and kill Jesus for correcting their human tradition in opposition to Jesus. This denomination would completely annihilate the followers of Jesus until there was no one left. This threat by Rome putting human tradition over Jesus is greater than any problems Christians may face under a secular government like Rome before hijacking the church of Jesus as the rival denomination emerging from Rome wanting world supremacy. The Bible reveals the continuation of imperial Rome hijacking the church of Jesus for world supremacy with a human emperor Jesus never established over His church. God is our king, revealed when Israel sinned by asking for a human king. At that time, God revealed they had rejected God as their king. History repeats itself when humans do not learn from their prior sin of their human attraction to a human emperor over Jesus' church from Rome, rejecting Jesus as our king.

So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.” Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’ For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:5-13 NLT)​

Paul specifically stated that we do not need to keep the Sabbath but all of the moral laws still remain intact in his teachings.
“Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
Colossians 2:16-17 NASB1995

Read on and you will see that Paul is talking about "human teachings" that "provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires" and not Jesus' Eleven Commandments in the new covenant that do provide "help in conquering a person's evil desires". Jesus used Paul in the book of Hebrews to correct the ancient human tradition that the Sabbath travels with the week when God showed in the desert since Joshua that you enter the Sabbath around the world in the time zone of creation in Eden, a mistake humans have not listened to correct for more than 3,000 years.

You have died with Christ, and he has set you free from the spiritual powers of this world. So why do you keep on following the rules of the world, such as, “Don’t handle! Don’t taste! Don’t touch!”? Such rules are mere human teachings about things that deteriorate as we use them. These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires. (Colossians 2:20-23 NLT)​

Paul taught that we are under the law of Spirit not the law of sin & death. The law of sin & death is the Mosaic law.
“For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.”
Romans 8:2-4 NASB1995 The law of Spirit does not omit the moral laws.

Critical to the proper understanding of this passage is that God is Spirit: Jesus being God is Spirit. What is compared is Jesus' example of obedience to the Ten Commandments as more complete than the written Ten Commandments. To understand this comparison I will use the analogy of replacing a broken window. No doubt it is more complete to follow a professional installer's example than the instructions in a brief manual. The reason the old written law ends in death for Judaism is that they sabotaged God's law to not remove sin that Paul protects against by focusing on sin rather than obeying the law as Judaism did. Judaism obeyed the commandment of not misusing God's name by not pronouncing His name at all. This partial obedience skipped the law's purpose to remove sin from our character. They would have learned to use God's name without sinning had they done what God asked instead of replacing what God asked with their own "human effort" to obey that did not remove the sin that doing what God asked would have removed.

So now there is no condemnation (the curse of not obeying “all” that God ordered through the prophets like Moses) for those who belong to Christ Jesus (Jesus' example to follow is more complete than the written Ten Commandments). And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit (God is Spirit, Jesus being God is Spirit, Jesus being God is the example Spirit to follow as more complete than the written Ten Commandments) has freed you from the power of sin (Judaism’s human law sabotaging God’s "order" through the prophets like Moses) that leads to death. The law (of Judaism) was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature (law breakers). So God did what the law (of Judaism) could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have (subject to death). And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins (providing as many forgivenesses as we need to separate sin from our character). He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us (who practice obedience to mastery), who no longer follow our sinful nature (law breaking) but instead follow the Spirit (Jesus’ example to follow). (Romans 8:1-4 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

You keep saying that the Jews substituted the 10 commandments with their own laws but that is not accurate my friend. The Jews simply added more laws, they didn’t take away anything. The reason they added more laws was because they had to define what exactly the laws meant. For example thou shall not work on the Sabbath. They had to define what was considered to be work so they created laws forbidding things that they considered to be work because the term work was not defined by God when He gave the commandment.

Jesus said the same thing in the following passage regarding the Fifth Commandment of the Ten Commandments being replaced by Judaism's human tradition in contradiction to God's "order" through the prophet Moses.

So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.” Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’ For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:5-13 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

You have Paul saying that God will judge Jews by the Law of Judaism. Did you think this through? You have told us elsewhere that the Law of Judaism is a perversion to the Law of Moses. And now you are telling us that God will judge Jews according a law that, in fact, represents a perversion of God's real law. Madness!

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 19, 2023 at 12:31 pm EDT! Even those who do not know God have human laws. We will all be judged by those human laws intuitively known to those who do not know God telling humans what is right and whether we choose to do what is right or not. Even though Judaism keeps a perversion of God's "order" by the prophets, it is still better than human law intuitively known to Gentiles who do not obey God at all. The worst are Gentiles who curse God, misusing His name. Better is Judaism, who do not use God's name at all. The best are Christians, having Jesus as an example of righteousness to follow, who use God's name properly. Influenced by God's "order" through the prophets like Moses, Judaism does not curse God, while not fully willing to obey God's "order" through the prophets to learn to use God's name properly as Christians have, without cursing God's name. Their human traditions kept us under guard until Jesus becomes the incarnate Spirit of righteousness, an embodied example to follow as more complete than the written Ten Commandments having led to righteousness by instruction instead of the new way by example. What is compared is Jesus' example of obedience to the Ten Commandments as more complete than the written Ten Commandments when Jesus expands on them, saying just to think lustfully of a woman you commit adultery. Critical to the proper understanding of the following passage is that God is Spirit: Jesus being God is Spirit. What is compared is Jesus' example of obedience to the Ten Commandments as more complete than the written Ten Commandments. To understand this comparison I will use the analogy of replacing a broken window. No doubt it is more complete to follow a professional installer's example than the instructions in a brief manual. The reason the old written law ends in death for Judaism is that they sabotaged God's law to not remove sin that Paul protects against by focusing on sin rather than obeying the law as Judaism did. Judaism obeyed the Third Commandment of not misusing God's name by not pronouncing His name at all. This disobedience of partial obedience skipped the "order" through the prophet's purpose to remove sin from our character. They would have learned to use God's name without sinning had they done what God asked instead of replacing what God asked with their own "human effort" to obey that did not remove the sin that doing what God asked would have removed.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ. It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own. Our qualification comes from God. He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow). This is a covenant not of written laws (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow). The old written covenant ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but under the new covenant, the Spirit (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow) gives life. The old way (God's "order" by prophets like Moses), with laws etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (Sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (leading to righteousness), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory (Eleven Commandments) under the new way (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow), now that the Spirit (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow) gives life? If the old way (written laws etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow). So if the old way (written laws etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus' example of righteousness to follow), which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:4-11 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Are you saying that people who disobey the law of Judaism are cursed, but people who disobey the law that God gave to Israel in the wilderness are not cursed? If so, then we disagree

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 19, 2023 at 12:31 pm EDT! If people obey "all" of God's "order" through the prophets like Moses, they are not cursed. However, if they obey the human law of Judaism that keeps them from obeying "all" the law of God, they are cursed for not obeying "all" of God's "order" through the prophets like Moses. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. They are cursed because they refuse to learn to use God's name properly like God asked in the Third Commandment when they decided not to utter His name at all. Judaism's human traditions bring them under the curse. Human traditions prevent them from doing what God asked of them, putting everyone who obeys Judaism under the curse of not obeying "all" that God asked.

But those who depend on the law (of Judaism) to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law (which Judaism does not obey when they replace the proper use of God's name in the Third Commandment with not using God's name at all).” So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law (of Judaism). For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith (that obeys all that God commands in contrast to human rules by blind guides replacing what God commands) that a righteous person has life.” This way of faith (that obeys all that God commands and not human rules by blind guides replacing what God commands) is very different from the way of law (of Judaism), which says, “It is through obeying the law (of Judaism) that a person has life.” (Galatians 3:10-12 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

If people obey "all" of God's "order" through the prophets like Moses, they are not cursed.

Brother, may God's grace be poured out on you!

Right, we obey God's order, which isn't necessarily the same as letters of the law. And a big Amen to that!

So while the letter says this

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:3 - New Living Translation

You may eat any animal that has completely split hooves and chews the cud.

www.biblegateway.com

We know

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 10:25 - New Living Translation

So you may eat any meat that is sold in the marketplace without raising questions of conscience.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[BNR32FAN]

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 19, 2023 at 12:31 pm EDT! The word of God reveals that the most effective empire builder in history is Rome in hijacking the church of Jesus to achieve world supremacy. This church's historical effort to eliminate their opposition, the true followers of Jesus, will ultimately eliminate every follower of Jesus if Jesus does not stop them when Jesus returns to save His followers. To understand the threat more clearly, it is as if one denomination put human tradition over Jesus' word and sought to eliminate all rival denominations by torture and death, demanding that the followers of Jesus recant or die for correcting their human traditions in opposition to Jesus' word. Human traditions which are contrary to Jesus' word, as Jesus corrected Judaism in the following passage. This denomination would torture and kill Jesus for correcting their human tradition in opposition to Jesus. This denomination would completely annihilate the followers of Jesus until there was no one left. This threat by Rome putting human tradition over Jesus is greater than any problems Christians may face under a secular government like Rome before hijacking the church of Jesus as the rival denomination emerging from Rome wanting world supremacy. The Bible reveals the continuation of imperial Rome hijacking the church of Jesus for world supremacy with a human emperor Jesus never established over His church. God is our king, revealed when Israel sinned by asking for a human king. At that time, God revealed they had rejected God as their king. History repeats itself when humans do not learn from their prior sin of their human attraction to a human emperor over Jesus' church from Rome, rejecting Jesus as our king.

Brother I don’t know where you’re getting your information but it’s it’s nothing but conspiracy theory and propaganda. If the Roman Empire was persecuting Christians in 70AD then they were not working in conjunction with Christians. There is zero evidence to support this claim that the church in Rome had anything to do with the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. The church in Rome was too busy trying not to be lion food to conspire with the Roman government to destroy the temple. You have all your facts mixed up. You’re mentioning the inquisitions here when the inquisitions didn’t start until 1184AD in France which was 130 years after the Roman church was excommunicated from the apostolic church in 1054AD. It seems as though someone has built this wild conspiracy theory based on bits & pieces of information without any sort of time frame or understanding of what was going on when these events took place. I suggest studying about the history of the church from credible secular sources to get a better understanding of when these events took place and what was going on at that time and disregard anything your getting from your source because it is nothing but anti Catholic propaganda.

So the Pharisees and teachers of religious law asked him, “Why don’t your disciples follow our age-old tradition? They eat without first performing the hand-washing ceremony.” Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’ For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:5-13 NLT)

You’re quoting Jesus’ words out of context. This had nothing to do with Rome or the Roman church. The church in Rome didn’t even exist when He said this. This was in reference to the Pharisees not the Roman Church. Peter & Paul had not even planted the church in Rome until after Christ’s resurrection. So this is equivalent to putting words in Christ’s mouth that He did not say.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Read on and you will see that Paul is talking about "human teachings" that "provide no help in conquering a person's evil desires" and not Jesus' Eleven Commandments in the new covenant that do provide "help in conquering a person's evil desires". Jesus used Paul in the book of Hebrews to correct the ancient human tradition that the Sabbath travels with the week when God showed in the desert since Joshua that you enter the Sabbath around the world in the time zone of creation in Eden, a mistake humans have not listened to correct for more than 3,000 years.

Paul is not talking about human teachings, he’s talking about how Christ’s triumph over the Pharisees has freed us from their bondage.

“Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬

The Sabbath Day was a mere shadow of what is to come. The Sabbath Day is no more just like his reference to circumcision.

“and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Both circumcision and the Sabbath Days were a shadow just like the dietary laws.

 

[guevaraj]

Right, we obey God's order, which isn't necessarily the same as letters of the law.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 26, 2023 at 12:35 pm EDT! We now follow the example of Jesus' life of righteousness in the flesh in the Eleventh Commandment as more complete than the brief Ten Commandments identified as letters engraved on stones. The example of Jesus' life of righteousness in the flesh to follow in the Eleventh Commandment obeyed the Ten Commandments and, being more complete, expanded the Ten Commandments. For example, regarding adultery, Jesus added that your thoughts can already be adultery even before you act on it. Critical to the proper understanding of 2 Corinthians 3 below with the use of the word "Spirit" is that "God is Spirit": Jesus being God is Spirit. In conclusion, Jesus is "Spirit" in the flesh. This use of the word "Spirit" is different than the Holy Spirit, whose job it is to remind us of Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow, in the Eleventh Commandment. The Holy Spirit has not been given as an excuse to disobey Jesus' Eleven Commandments. This disobedience came from human beings twisting Paul's message as described at the end of this post by forcing Paul's use of the word "law", unqualified, to refer to God's law, the translators qualifying it, when Paul meant all the law of the Jews and not just the part of God's "order" through the prophets like Moses.

Jesus replied, “Believe me, dear woman, the time is coming when it will no longer matter whether you worship the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem (Jesus in the temple in heaven permitting worship from anywhere when the earthly temple was done in Jerusalem). You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship (no prophets like Moses), while we Jews know all about him (the scriptures by prophets like Moses), for salvation comes through the Jews (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow). But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow) and in truth (the scriptures by prophets like Moses revealing Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow). The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. For God is Spirit (giving Jesus is Spirit, this use of the word Spirit is not the Holy Spirit), so those who worship him must worship in spirit (following the example of life of righteousness in the flesh of Jesus) and in truth (the scriptures by prophets like Moses revealing Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow).” (John 4:21-24 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

The use of the word "Spirit" we follow is Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh written for us to follow in the Eleventh Commandment. The job of the Holy Spirit is to remind you of Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh as our example to follow in the Eleventh Commandment and not as our excuse to disobey Jesus' Eleven Commandments.

Jesus replied, “All who love me will do what I say (Jesus having given the Eleven Commandments to obey). My Father will love them, and we will come and make our home with each of them. Anyone who doesn’t love me will not obey me (in the Eleven Commandments to obey given by Jesus). And remember, my words are not my own. What I am telling you is from the Father who sent me. I am telling you these things now while I am still with you. But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything (through prophets like Moses) and will remind you of everything I have told you. (the work of the Holy Spirit is to remind us of Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh written for us to follow in the Eleventh Commandment) (John 14:23-26 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

What is compared with the word "Spirit" used in the following passage is Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh in obedience to the Ten Commandments as an example more complete than the written Ten Commandments, leading to righteousness. The "Spirit" in this passage is not the Holy Spirit as our excuse to disobey Jesus' Eleven Commandments, but the life of Jesus as the true example of righteousness in the flesh to follow in the Eleventh Commandment, as more complete than the brevity of the Ten Commandments Jesus obeyed. We follow the example of Jesus' life written for us to follow and not our own disobedience, excused as coming from the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit's Job is to remind us of Jesus' life as the true example in the flesh to follow and we must stop using the Holy Spirit as our excuse to follow our own disobedience to the Eleven Commandments of Jesus.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the true example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (excusing our disobedience as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the true example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow). This is a covenant not of written laws (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (this use of the word "Spirit" is Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse for our disobedience). The old written covenant ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but under the new covenant, the Spirit (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow) gives life. The old way (God's "order" by prophets like Moses), with laws etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (Sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (leading to righteousness), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory (Eleven Commandments) under the new way (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow), now that the Spirit (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow) gives life? If the old way (written laws etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow). So if the old way (written laws etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow), which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:4-11 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

The key word to understand Paul in your chosen passage below is "questions". "questions", in the opposite way, the word "law" is used in other passages by Paul. I see the same pattern where people twist Paul's message by narrowing or widening the scope of the use of words in the passage in opposition to the context of Paul's message. For example: people narrow Paul's use of the word "law", unqualified, to refer to the law of God when Paul had not narrowed it's use. Translators force a narrower view by adding God's law to the word law alone when Paul does not narrow the use of the word law when he is referring to all the law of the Jews. Oppositely, people in this passage widen Paul's use of other words like "marketplace" to include buying unclean foods when Paul has narrowed its use with the word "questions" to refer to all foods you can eat if otherwise not known to be offered to idols. In brief, let's explore Paul's example of being invited to eat with a non-believer. Here are some guiding rules from Paul's message in 1 Corinthians 10:

1. Do not worry if what you know you can eat was offered to idols if you don't know. Do not inquire if that information was not offered to you.
2. Act according to what is known to you and do not concern yourself with what is not known to you without raising questions.
3. If a pig is offered, you reject it because you know you can not eat it. You know this without the need to raise a question.
4. If chicken is offered, you accept it because you know you can eat it. You know this without the need to raise a question. You should not ask whether it was offered to idols and you should eat it as if it was not offered to idols.
5. If, in the middle of the meal, your host says, by the way, this chicken was offered to an idol, you have to reject the meal because you now know you can not eat it, now that you know it was offered to an idol.

So you may eat any meat that is sold in the marketplace (that you know you can eat) without raising questions of conscience (not worrying if what you can eat was offered to Idols). For “the earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.” (It's not that we think anything of idols) If someone who isn’t a believer asks you home for dinner, accept the invitation if you want to. Eat whatever is offered to you (that you know you can eat) without raising questions of conscience (not worrying if what you can eat was offered to Idols). But suppose someone tells you, “This meat was offered to an idol.” (we set the example of staying away from demons by not eating the meat) Don’t eat it... (It's not that we think anything of idols but we set the example of staying away from demons by not eating the meat) (1 Corinthians 10:25-28a NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

If the Roman Empire was persecuting Christians in 70AD then they were not working in conjunction with Christians. There is zero evidence to support this claim that the church in Rome had anything to do with the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem. The church in Rome was too busy trying not to be lion food to conspire with the Roman government to destroy the temple. You have all your facts mixed up.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 26, 2023 at 12:35 pm EDT! The dates you provide show God revealing the official apostate church of Rome as a continuation of Rome in Daniel's prophecy. The official church of Rome that persecuted Christians in 1184AD is a continuation of Rome, which destroyed the temple in 70AD, when they later then hijacked the church of Jesus to continue their quest for world supremacy under a human king that caused the schism of 1054AD; the church of Rome rejecting Jesus as our king.

• 70AD temple destroyed by Rome before Rome hijacked the church of Jesus.
• 312AD Constantine signed the Edict of Milan making the church of Jesus the official church of Rome.
• 1054AD the east church did not accept the human kingship of the papacy over the church of Jesus, rejecting Jesus as their king.
• 1184AD the inquisitions eliminated competing faiths grounded in the word of God who rejected their human traditions in contradiction to the word of God as Jesus rejected the human traditions in Judaism.

The above dates provided show that the word of God in the following passage has Rome continuing from within the official church of Rome. A church as a continuation of Rome that substituted an earthly confessional for the worship of Jesus in the temple in heaven for the forgiveness of sins. A continuation of Rome is why they are the ones who destroyed the temple in 70AD. The word of God reveals in the following passage the continuation of Rome hijacking the church of Jesus for world supremacy under a human king, rejecting Jesus as our King.

It even challenged the Commander of heaven’s army by canceling the daily sacrifices offered to him and by destroying his Temple. The army of heaven was restrained from responding to this rebellion. So the daily sacrifice was halted, and truth was overthrown. The horn succeeded in everything it did. Then I heard two holy ones talking to each other. One of them asked, “How long will the events of this vision last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven’s army be trampled on?” (Daniel 8:11-13 NLT fixed)​

The Sabbath Day is no more just like his reference to circumcision.

Circumcision continues, now done by Jesus for the removal of sin and no longer done by humans.

When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature. For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. (Colossians 2:11-12 NLT)​

The Sabbath "day" also continues, now fixed by Jesus from human tradition since "Joshua" through Paul in the book of Hebrews!

​

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

Under Joshua, after Moses, who led them into the Promised Land, the people assumed the Sabbath was the seventh day of the week when the Sabbath falls half a day before the seventh day of the week in Jerusalem. The Sabbath tradition, since Joshua is wrong. The Sabbath tradition of Judaism enters the Sabbath correctly only in Jerusalem, because the Sabbath was not fully understood. The Sabbath tradition of Judaism doesn't enter the Sabbath correctly here in the United States, because they assumed the Sabbath was the same as the seventh day of the week, when God taught them for 40 years in the desert near Jerusalem that keeping the seventh day of the week from morning to morning with Manna does not enter the Sabbath day. The Sabbath day, they later entered half a day earlier in Jerusalem from evening to evening. Joshua wrongly assumed that the evening to evening Sabbath in Jerusalem was the seventh day of the week when the days of the week are from morning to morning as defined in Genesis and confirmed for 40 years in the desert by Manna. God established the days from morning to morning, in the special case of the first day from first light to light again in the morning and subsequent days from morning to morning.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

The reason this correction is needed after the Father put Jesus as our High Priest is because now we worship Jesus in heaven daily for the forgiveness of sins in the heavenly temple from anywhere on the earth through prayer and not just in Jerusalem as it was with the earthly temple with animal sacrifices before the Father put Jesus as our High Priest in the heavenly temple.

Jesus replied, “Believe me, dear woman, the time is coming when it will no longer matter whether you worship the Father on this mountain or in Jerusalem (The Father putting Jesus as our High Priest in the temple in heaven, permitting daily worship for the forgiveness of sins from anywhere by prayer when the earthly temple was done in Jerusalem with animal sacrifices). You Samaritans know very little about the one you worship (no prophets like Moses), while we Jews know all about him (the scriptures by prophets like Moses), for salvation comes through the Jews (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow in the Eleventh Commandment). But the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit (Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow in the Eleventh Commandment) and in truth (the scriptures by prophets like Moses revealing Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow in the Eleventh Commandment). The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. For God is Spirit (telling us Jesus is Spirit, this use of the word Spirit is not the Holy Spirit), so those who worship him must worship in spirit (following the example of life of righteousness in the flesh of Jesus in the Eleventh Commandment) and in truth (the scriptures by prophets like Moses revealing Jesus' example of life of righteousness in the flesh to follow in the Eleventh Commandment).” (John 4:21-24 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday May 26, 2023 at 12:35 pm EDT!

Thank you, my brother, and my blessing to you is

Bible Gateway passage: 3 John 2 - New American Standard Bible

Beloved, I pray that in all respects you may prosper and be in good health, just as your soul prospers.

www.biblegateway.com