From Roe-Bots to Inflatable IUD in DC: Pro-Abortion Scare Tactics Hit a New Low

[Zaha Torte]

No you don't.

I do because you can see them admit as much on their personal TikToks.

No they don't.

Yes, they do - because they know what a woman is - and they are the ones actually having the children.

 

[BCP1928]

You deny that these things are happening?

For all practical purposes, yes. You may find an anecdote or two which seems to support your belief and of course it is hard to avoid being influenced by right-wing polemicists pouring out slanderous filth about it, but yeah, the whole "agenda" part is just blowing smoke.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I thought I was being quite clear.

Can give examples of States writing and enforcing such laws?

Can you explain your claim that "the destruction of a viable fetus was already illegal in 42 states and against medical ethics in all of them"?

 

[BCP1928]

I do because you can see them admit as much on their personal TikToks.

Yes, they do - because they know what a woman is - and they are the ones actually having the children.

You don't think trans people know what reproductive organs they have?

 

[NxNW]

I do because you can see them admit as much on their personal TikToks.

Fictional anecdotes don't count.

Yes, they do - because they know what a woman is - and they are the ones actually having the children.

Women are dying as a result of Republican policy. Republicans support a candidate who assaults women. It's only getting worse.

 

[Zaha Torte]

For all practical purposes, yes. You may find an anecdote or two which seems to support your belief and of course it is hard to avoid being influenced by right-wing polemicists pouring out slanderous filth about it, but yeah, the whole "agenda" part is just blowing smoke.

There does not need to be an organized conspiracy for any group of people to have a collective agenda.

It's like how everyone knows who the vegan is and why - because they always make sure everyone knows.

All vegans of the world didn't come together and decide that they were going to do this - it is just what they do.

People who base their entire identity on their sexual orientation or mental illness are going to make sure everyone knows as much as they can about it.

I am not saying that every single homosexual has based their entire identity on their sexual orientation - but the activists that I am referring to sure have.

It would be like separating the average Christian from the pastors or missionaries.

 

[Zaha Torte]

You don't think trans people know what reproductive organs they have?

Another strawman.

Do you know what a woman is?

 

[Zaha Torte]

Fictional anecdotes don't count.

You are free to find all the articles as well.

Women are dying as a result of Republican policy.

How so?

Republicans support a candidate who assaults women.

That is more proof of the swamp

It's only getting worse.

What is a woman?

 

[BCP1928]

Can give examples of States writing and enforcing such laws?

Can you explain your claim that "the destruction of a viable fetus was already illegal in 42 states and against medical ethics in all of them"?

Actually, I'm behind the times--it became a Federal law in 2002. But what is your game in trying to deny it?

 

[BCP1928]

Another strawman.

Do you know what a woman is?

A human person with female reproductive organs and a culturally acceptable array of traits and behaviors normally associated with females.

 

[Bradskii]

I know homosexuals when I was growing up.
You realize that sexual orientation has nothing to do with this discussion, right?
We were just discussing the difference in "gender" - not in sexual attraction.
Well - you used the word "gender" while I used the appropriate term "sex"

Yeah, mentioning gays and not knowing any was used as a comparison. You know, gay people existed but were afraid of coming out? I guess you didn't understand the point. And I really can't help you if you don't understand the difference between biological sex and gender. Actually I'm not really interested in helping you understand either. I have this sense when it's a lost cause.

Although I do feel the need to point out that homosexuality is sinful and should be avoided.

Then you be sure to avoid it.

I don't know. I knew homosexuals while growing up and I also knew a lot of people that used derogatory language about them...

You don't know? You don't think that gay people were reluctant to admit to what so many people were calling abhorrent? And worse. Actual violence. There's a memorial on the headland ten minutes from me that's dedicated to all the LGBTQ people who suffered from hate crimes in the suburb in the 70's, 80's and 90's. So many murdered. And that transgender people get similar treatment today? Mentally ill, sick, perverted...stick around. You'll see terms like that being thrown around in the forum.

He accepted the delusion that a person could change their "gender" or sex.
And the concept of "gender" does not exist in reality.
There are only two sexes - zero genders - and infinite personalities.

Thankfully he knows more than you do. Thankfully there'll be more like him and he'll find when he grows up that there'll be less like you. As the numbers shrink you'll have to make more noise to be heard. Because more people will be ignoring you.

Removing an unviable pregnancy or any unborn child (without the intent to murder) is not an abortion.

Well, if you change the definition of words to suit your arguments then at least you'll think you'll be winning lots of them. We should keep a list. We've got gender, murder and abortion so far.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Actually, I'm behind the times--it became a Federal law in 2002. But what is your game in trying to deny it?

I honestly don't understand what you think I am denying.

 

[Zaha Torte]

A human person with female reproductive organs and a culturally acceptable array of traits and behaviors normally associated with females.

I see that you are trying to be inclusive which can cause you to err.

A woman is an adult human female - and a female is the sex that has the capacity to produce ovum.

You need to understand that culture, traits, behaviors and what is considered "normal" have no bearing on what a woman is.

 

[Hans Blaster]

You and others have been erecting the same strawman over and over.

I have been saying that gender activists pushing their agenda onto children by encouraging them to engage in LGBT politics and activities is not appropriate.

Teachers should not be revealing private sexual information about themselves or soliciting discussions about student's private sexual information.

Teachers should only be teaching what is outlined in the curriculum - not teaching falsehoods about biological sex - and especially not keeping secrets with students that parents are unaware of.

I keep focusing this discussion on all these inappropriate behaviors that we keep seeing across the country - while you and others keep trying to claim that I am advocating no sex-ed at all.

It is a strawman. It is purposefully misrepresenting my position.

This thread is about abortion activists. It is not about gender identity or schools.

 

[Foamhead]

Your claim is still false.

You claimed that the number one cause of death among children in the US was "gun violence" - and that claim is not supported by the links you have provided.


The real issues that we are seeing are gang-violence and mental health issues.

You obviously didn't read the links, nor will you, and like usual when reality and what you want to be true conflict you deny reality.

And you are?

Explain exactly which one of these examples is a "medically necessary abortion".

I'm not making a claim, doctors and medical experts are and I sent you a relevant resource. How about not being lazy and doing your own reading? You clearly didn't read the information nor will you for the same reason noted above.

How about you start by trying to explain why you consider it to be asinine.

I speak out against the State replacing the father in the home - which has led to more gang-violence - and I also encourage that people with mental health issues get the necessary help they need - including transgender people.

You are just trying to distract from the actual issues while pushing that we politicize and sexualize more and more children.

It's an asinine comment because it isn't even remotely connected to reality and therefore defies a response. Since you have made it clear you will simply ignore and hand wave away anything you don't like discussion is pointless.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

No - this is revisionist nonsense.

It's just history. Did you read the article I linked? [Transgender history - Wikipedia]

And even if it were true - that does not make it any truer or any less delusional - nor does it mean that they are necessary for people to know the difference between the sexes.

If you weren't aware, gender identity is (in contemporary parlance) about feelings; about which gender one feels most closely aligned with (if any). It is not the same as biological sex. It would be delusional if it was an erroneous factual belief, e.g. if you thought you were biologically male or female when you were not. What distresses many trans people is that they are well aware that the gender they identify with is not their biological gender.

Not sure what you mean by, "...nor does it mean that they are necessary for people to know the difference between the sexes." Even biological sex (i.e. chromosomal sex) is not binary, although XX and XY are the vast majority. Male and female anatomy is typically a binary choice because it occurs relatively early in development (although there are variations).

Masculine and feminine characteristics vary along a spectrum between individuals according to hormonal influences and change as they develop and age. Brain development is also influenced, particularly in utero, and is sensitive to variations in hormone levels, changes in gene expression, etc. This means we are all born with a unique set of mental characteristics and predispositions, among them a sense of self, including gender identity. In some individuals, this doesn't match their biological sex characteristics, in others it is ambiguous.

As the brain develops in childhood, certain predispositions may or may not be realised, depending on environmental influences (the classic case is psychopathy). Weakly conflicting gender identity predispositions may be modified by exposure to stereotypical gender roles (parents, siblings, peer group, etc.) in childhood. Stronger conflicting gender identity feelings may cause confusion, and some are effectively fixed.

In the UK, gender identity conflicts become a medical question when they cause an individual sufficient distress to interfere with their everyday life, mental health, or well-being. The role of the health services is then to assess the individual and determine the best way to relieve their distress, and help them improve their mental health and well-being. This may involve counselling & talking therapies, or medication, or, as a last resort, surgery.

JFYI, gender-affirming surgeries for transgender women have taken place since the 16th century(!). The self-reported satisfaction rate after gender reassignment surgery is as high or higher than other major surgical procedures - here's a sample of studies:

Quality of Life Following Male-To-Female Sex Reassignment Surgery
Trans persons suffer from the tension between their biologically characterized body and their experienced sex/gender.
Undergoing medical and/or social transition seems for many trans persons the best possible solution for alleviating their gender dysphoria symptoms.
Results from studies imply that sex reassignment surgery on the one hand has positive effects in terms of partial aspects of quality of life, such as mental health, sexuality, and life satisfaction, and, on the other hand, on quality of life overall.

Long-term Outcomes After Gender-Affirming Surgery: 40-Year Follow-up Study
Conclusion: Gender-affirming surgery is a durable treatment that improves overall patient well-being. High patient satisfaction, improved dysphoria, and reduced mental health comorbidities persist decades after GAS without any reported patient regret.

Surgical Satisfaction, Quality of Life, and Their Association After Gender-Affirming Surgery: A Follow-up Study
Postoperative satisfaction was 94% to 100%, depending on the type of surgery performed. Eight (6%) of the participants reported dissatisfaction and/or regret, which was associated with preoperative psychological symptoms or self-reported surgical complications...

We would still be aware of the differences between the two sexes if none of these mental illnesses never existed.

Two sexes are the vast majority, but some people are intersex, hermaphrodite, etc. Not everyone whose gender identity differs from their biological sex experiences gender dysphoria, so not all are mentally ill.

Transgenderism is not a sexual orientation and I never understood why anyone would want to lump it in as such.

Who 'lumps it in' as a sexual orientation?

This idea that sexual sin and mental illness always existing does not make them morally good or any less a mental illness.

If you consider it sinful or immoral, don't do it. For me, what consenting people do with each other is their business, not mine. A mental illness is commonly defined as psychological distress sufficient to interfere with everyday life.

We should avoid sin and help those suffering from delusions - not point to the existence of sin and delusion in history as a means to justify them.

I was correcting your impression that "... all people everywhere since the beginning of people" went about their lives "...without meeting any transgender people". I see no need to justify harmless behaviour.

Who would have guessed that going to university would have indoctrinated you so?

It was an education that enabled me to see how I had been indoctrinated - and did the same for many people of other cultures & religions who became my friends. I probably learned more from meeting such a diversity of people than I did from the course I studied.

As if I needed further testimony to support my decision to not encourage my children to go there.

Allowing space in our hearts and minds for inappropriate thoughts often leads us to abuse other.

Homosexuality and other sexual sins should be avoided.

I hope your children get an education that is more than studying a curriculum and passing exams. Encourage them to expand their knowledge and understanding and encounter as wide a variety of views and opinions as possible. Then they can make a better-informed choice of a moral and ethical framework to live by.

 

[BCP1928]

I honestly don't understand what you think I am denying.

You seemed incredulous and demanded proof of a commonplace observation.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

This thread is about abortion activists. It is not about gender identity or schools.

Sorry, got sucked in! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Hans Blaster]

Sorry, got sucked in! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

There are some, and she's one, who insist on turning everything even remotely linked to gender/sex into a discussion of gender identity "ideology". It is a sad state of affairs.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Before I respond to your latest post, I feel the need to apologize.

Even though you were the one who brought up your grandson and another family member that identifies as transgender - making them "fair game" in my opinion - I felt bad and hope you know that I wasn't trying to claim that they are "wicked" or that you are a bad person or anything.

I don't disagree with what I said - that transgenderism is a mental illness, and we should not encourage children to accept their delusion - but I won't be referring to or addressing any comment about your family anymore.

As an act of contrition - with the hope that it may help you understand where I am coming from better - I would like to share some relevant anecdotes from my life regarding my family - particularly my seven-year-old son.

My son is very inquisitive and imaginative - but also very proud - he does not like receiving instruction, making mistakes or being told that he is wrong - these things can cause tears.

Anyways - when that movie "Lightyear" came out I heard about the homosexual couple - and my initial reaction was to not have my kids watch it - but after watching it myself I decided to use the movie as a learning opportunity.

I watched my son's reaction when the homosexual couple kissed - he asked me to pause it (which he often does because he always asks questions) and he expressed his confusion about the two ladies kissing.

I explained what homosexuality was and that it was not what God wanted His children to do - but that God made us free - and that what they do is none of our business.

We then went over scenarios about what he should do if he witnessed such scenes - after a couple confusing moments - he learned that he should tell a teacher if he saw students (of any sex) kissing at school (they are seven!) and that he should also tell a teacher if he sees any adults kissing students.

Then came the dreaded "Blue's Clues" incident - when the main guy (I think his name is Steve) told the viewers that a boy can become a girl or a girl a boy - and I was floored - not expecting to see that on this kid's show.

Anyways - this led to my son asking questions and I told him that God made us male and female - that we cannot switch teams - but that there are some confused people that believe that we can.

It ultimately boiled down to, "We know the truth, but we should love other people and mind our own business."

Finally - the big incident that had me shaking - after seeing Blue's Clues I shared some older kid's shows with my boy - like Invader Zim, Gummi Bears and the Fairly Odd Parents - things I knew didn't have that kind of stuff in it.

Anyways - he came up to me one day after watching some Fairly Odd Parents to tell me about a scene where Timmy's dad (who is very silly and portrayed to be very stupid) had put on a dress for some reason and claimed that he was as, "Beautiful as a woman."

I laughed along with him, but then he said that this was "proof" that men can become women.

I panicked - he noticed and became defensive (thinking I was about to correct him, and he hates that) - and I asked if Timmy's dad claimed to be a woman - he said "No, but only women can be beautiful. Men are handsome." - to which I responded by saying that anyone can be beautiful, and everyone is beautiful to God.

He started crying - claiming that I was wrong - but when I asked him why this was so important to him, he shrugged - then I asked if he wanted to be a girl and he said "No" - I then asked if he knew any boy that claimed to be a girl and he said "No" - he was still upset by the way with the tears and quivering lip.

So, I explained that even though Timmy's dad made a joke about being as beautiful as a woman - it was just a joke and that he was still a man - and he was still Timmy's dad and still loved Timmy and his wife.

That is when I asked him if he had anyone that he liked at school - He said "No" - and I asked if he liked girls - and he said "I don't know" - so I asked if he liked boys and he said "No" - then I asked him again why he got so upset about what Timmy's dad said and about him not actually being a woman and he finally admitted, "I don't like being wrong."

Crisis averted! I told him that we cannot be right all the time - we aren't God after all - and that we need to endure being corrected with humility.

Anyways - all that being said - I have yet to encounter any teachers or administrators pushing this kind of stuff - we moved to a conservative State a few years back to avoid stuff like that.

Yeah, mentioning gays and not knowing any was used as a comparison. You know, gay people existed but were afraid of coming out? I guess you didn't understand the point.

Oh! Yeah - I didn't get that at all.

I suppose it is because I do not believe that anyone is "born that way".

And I really can't help you if you don't understand the difference between biological sex and gender.

Well - I would argue that no one seems to - since they keep flip flopping on it over and over.

One second, they claim that they are different - then the next second they mention "biological gender" or refer to biological men as the "first female [insert example here]" - like they did with Rachel Levine.

I don't believe that the concept of "gender" exists as it has been explained to me.

There are "engendered" words and roles - but as far as I am concerned "gender" does not exist.

We are either male or female - nothing else.

Actually I'm not really interested in helping you understand either. I have this sense when it's a lost cause.

I understand - I just will never agree - and in that sense I am a lost cause.

Then you be sure to avoid it.

Don't worry - I try - but it is getting more and more difficult as it is being inserted everywhere.

Although I will continue to speak the truth about it because I love my neighbors.

You don't know? You don't think that gay people were reluctant to admit to what so many people were calling abhorrent? And worse. Actual violence.

I'm sure that was part of it - but their spirits were probably trying to stop them from being overcome by their weakness and succumbing to sin as well.

There's a memorial on the headland ten minutes from me that's dedicated to all the LGBTQ people who suffered from hate crimes in the suburb in the 70's, 80's and 90's. So many murdered. And that transgender people get similar treatment today? Mentally ill, sick, perverted...stick around. You'll see terms like that being thrown around in the forum.

I have already seen, and I have also pointed out these truths when appropriate.

Thankfully he knows more than you do. Thankfully there'll be more like him and he'll find when he grows up that there'll be less like you. As the numbers shrink you'll have to make more noise to be heard. Because more people will be ignoring you.

I won't engage the comments about your grandson anymore - but I will admit that you are right - the day will come when evil will be seen as good, and truth will be replaced with lies - just as the prophets have claimed.

I hope you realize that truth is not decided by consensus.

Well, if you change the definition of words to suit your arguments then at least you'll think you'll be winning lots of them.

That is very rich coming from someone who believes as you do.

We should keep a list. We've got gender, murder and abortion so far.

The concept of "gender" as you are trying to foist on people is very new and incorrect.

Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being - just because the State does not recognize the humanity of the not-yet-born does not make it any less murder.

I'm sure there are a lot of examples from history that I could point out to showcase that dehumanizing people can lead to murder - even if they did not believe it to be murder at the time.

If you don't realize how the term "abortion" has changed in our society then there is nothing need to discuss it further.

People do not think "abortion" when they hear about a miscarriage or stillbirth.