from a newbie's perspective

[PreachingChristCrucified]

Okay look,

I am new, but I have NEVER seen so much combativeness and hatred on a forum than I have on THIS one. Whether you are Pre-Trib, Post-Trib, or what have you.. Can't we all just agree that Christ is our Savior, and that regardless of our opinions of one another, we respect each other and love one another like Jesus himself told us to do?? I have seen people been called "losers" and ridiculed for believing what they believe, and it makes me so sad to see that... Especially on a Christian forum.

We all have our own opinions, and sometimes we don't believe or accept another Christian brother or sisters' heart felt belief.. And that's okay! Sometimes we just don't understand one another. And that's okay! That doesn't mean we should mock them, or make fun of them.

I understand today is March 22nd, and yeah, nothing has happened. So what. Does it make you a better person for pointing that out? No. Jesus would have wanted us to love and support one another regardless of the outcome of the "prophesy". Have you thought for one minute that maybe, just maybe... Someone who believed that they were to be raptured TODAY were completely heartbroken at the fact that they got it wrong? Should you rejoice in the fact that they were wrong? Or laugh at them? No.

I just don't understand the animosity between people that are the brothers and sisters of Christ Jesus.

If anyone could explain to me the reason why eschatology and end times studies has everyone's "panties in a wad" please do so. Regardless of our opinions, we are all going to the same place...

I am fascinated with eschatology and love to read all of your wise words. I have never seen so much KNOWLEDGE of scripture!!! Some of you are so very blessed with wisdom and I can only hope and pray to one day be as knowledgeable as you are.

I just wanted to give my perspective on things, because I have been praying about this... and I'm not going to lie... This forum has made me kind of sad to be quite honest.

God bless you all,

Joy

The thing is that the false prophecies and lies are a non-stop fact on this section of the forum. I for one am not going to put up with it. When I see it taking place I am going to confront it. I could use the example of how Jesus confronted the lies of the Pharisees but I'm not Jesus so I'll spare you of that.

I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that we are confronting lies but some of us have been on this message board for awhile (I have been here about a year albeit under a different user name) and seen many of these false prophets polluting our great forum with falsehood. The true shame is that we have to come on here and wade through all of the garbage to get to the good stuff.

 

[dana b]

The thing is that the false prophecies and lies are a non-stop fact on this section of the forum. I for one am not going to put up with it. When I see it taking place I am going to confront it. I could use the example of how Jesus confronted the lies of the Pharisees but I'm not Jesus so I'll spare you of that.

I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that we are confronting lies but some of us have been on this message board for awhile (I have been here about a year albeit under a different user name) and seen many of these false prophets polluting our great forum with falsehood. The true shame is that we have to come on here and wade through all of the garbage to get to the good stuff.

Why not just ignore my "bad stuff?" It that so hard? i ignore what itsn't interesting to me. There isn't any problem. If some people have discovered fancination Biblical numbers and dates maybe some others would like to hear about it. I love to see new Biblical discoveries made by amatures. Keep on trucken Christians!

Preaching Christ resurrected!

 

[Tigger45]

It is so refreshing when I read posters dialoging meaningfully and respectfully. I'll even just chime in to thank the posters for their conduct.

 

[itdepends]

Jesus didn't pull any punches in Matthew 23. They deserved it though...

Even so, I take your point.

There is a huge difference between cutting someone with a knife, removing what's decaying, patching them up, and sending them on their way healing with pain killers .... verses cutting someone open and walking away from them while they are bleeding out. One is called surgery, the other is called murder. And our words can do both. Even when Jesus was flaying open the snakes/vipers ... He did so with outstretched arms, and even said as much, and He was specific, and He in turn DIED for their sins instead of putting THEM on a cross. He walked the talk, in front of them, showing them the way.

Just food for thought when it comes to not pulling punches, and the intended purpose of the punch.

 

[dana b]

There is a huge difference between cutting someone with a knife, removing what's decaying, patching them up, and sending them on their way healing with pain killers .... verses cutting someone open and walking away from them while they are bleeding out. One is called surgery, the other is called murder. And our words can do both. Even when Jesus was flaying open the snakes/vipers ... He did so with outstretched arms, and even said as much, and He was specific, and He in turn DIED for their sins instead of putting THEM on a cross. He walked the talk, in front of them, showing them the way.

Just food for thought when it comes to not pulling punches, and the intended purpose of the punch.

I think someones must have been "punching" ellen white pretty hard, going to tell teacher till teacher had to act. Poor ellen, she had great tidings of joy in her information. Some punched as you say. May she preach elsewhere and find fertile minds for her truth. Praise God for his teachers!

 

[NumberOneSon]

Are some of you talking about me?

Um...I don't think so.

 

[LastSeven]

I have a question that I've asked before: What happens to the people who repeatedly take these false prophets (date setters) for their word, and then when their lies (prophecy) become obvious those people loose faith... turn their back on Christ, because of those false prophets whom they believed? What happens to them and to those false prophets who keep doing it over and over and over again?

Slightly off topic here but I want to address your use of the term "false prophet". Christians who are wrong in their interpretation or even Christians who set dates are not false prophets.

A false prophet is someone who not only knowingly misleads people, but also claims to be a prophet, that is someone who hears directly from God, but does in fact not.

I have never come across anyone on these forums (or any other forum for that matter) who claims to be a prophet, or knowingly misleads people away from the truth.

Although I agree with your point that incorrect teaching should not be allowed to continue as it leads others astray, aside from the difficulty in proving whose teachings are in fact correct, simply interpreting scripture incorrectly does not make one a false prophet, so please be careful about using that term against anyone.

 

[dana b]

Um...I don't think so.

But i preach dates harshly!

 

[itdepends]

Although I agree with your point that incorrect teaching should not be allowed to continue as it leads others astray, aside from the difficulty in proving whose teachings are in fact correct, simply interpreting scripture incorrectly does not make one a false prophet, so please be careful about using that term against anyone.

See, this is something closer to my own POV ...

If someone misinterprets something ... be it a scripture, or even spiritual discernment ... and they never claimed it to be fact ... then that is one thing. I think qualifiers actually do count for something. "I may be wrong, but" "This is what I believe, and here is why, but it could be off," things of that nature. It is the importance of acknowledging your faith is still faith, and not fact yet. It is how we learn, explore, experiment, try something new, "It's okay to fail because you're not losing anything," etc. When it becomes fact, then you can argue it as such because hopefully you have evidence to prove it so.

But it's when people speak something in absolutes, or facts ... "God would never" "God thinks" "God is like this" "God would never do that" "That is wrong, this is correct" .... when people take it upon themselves to make absolute statements about God or His "business", that is when I think they are in danger of being a false *something*. If they haven't claimed to be a prophet, then calling them a false prophet may be a stretch. But they may be bearing false witness, at the very least. Speaking for God, about God, when they have not witnessed it for themselves or had God tell them to speak on His behalf about it. People don't like being misquoted, people don't like having words put in their mouth, people don't like being lied about ... so when people do this with God but cannot back up their own words or have God testify on their behalf for them, I personally find such a person untrustworthy, if for no other reason than they are confusing concepts such as faith and fact, witnessing from appealing to other authority, etc and so forth. So they are in many ways in the same category as a false prophet. At least in my opinion. But I personally don't usually go out of my way to cut one down ... "You can't reason someone out of something they didn't reason themselves into" lol.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

Slightly off topic here but I want to address your use of the term "false prophet". Christians who are wrong in their interpretation or even Christians who set dates are not false prophets.

I would have to disagree with you here. Someone who predicts false dates is indeed a false prophet. As is someone who falsely teaches the word of the Lord.

 

[dana b]

I would have to disagree with you here. Someone who predicts false dates is indeed a false prophet. As is someone who falsely teaches the word of the Lord.

It's what you mean by the word "predicts" that is causing this confusion. Is this communism where we cannot even give an oponion? Or must we get in the habit of always adding the phrase "it's only my opinion" to every idea we express. What is the answer to this.


But mostly, what are you meaning when you use the word "predicts" about other people?

 

[dobson67]

I tend to disregard predicting when things like the Second Coming or Judgment day happen. It clearly states in the Bible that only the Father knows those times. Matthew 24:36-37 states clearly what Jesus said (And I will post it in several translations in case you do not believe one over the other)

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. (NIV)

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (NKJV)

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (KJV)

But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. (ASV)

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. (RSV-Catholic Edition)

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. (RSV)

According to Revelation 20 of the Bible, Judgment Day falls after the Second Coming. And if No one but the Father knows when the second coming takes place, neither can we then know when Judgment day comes. The pattern goes according to the Bible as follows: First Satan is bould up for a thousand years and Jesus returns to gathers up his children into heaven (Second Coming). After the Thousand years expires, Satan is released to deceive the nations. Then the Battle of Armegeddon where Satan is finally cast into the lake of fire and destroyed. Then comes Judgment day! Where all will have to answer for their works.

In short, In order to know when Judgment day occurs, one will also have to know the time of the second coming as they are all tied together in a set period of time. And again, as Jesus Stated in Matthew, NOBODY BUT THE FATHER knows when the Second Coming takes place.

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

It's what you mean by the word "predicts" that is causing this confusion. Is this communism where we cannot even give an oponion? Or must we get in the habit of always adding the phrase "it's only my opinion" to every idea we express. What is the answer to this.


But mostly, what are you meaning when you use the word "predicts" about other people?

First off let me say that I'm not talking about you dana b. I think it's pretty clear what a prediction is though. It's when someone says something is going to take place on a certain date. They often will say it is a word from the Lord. No, I don't think giving one's opinion is predicting but I would caution you about setting dates.

 

[dana b]

First off let me say that I'm not talking about you dana b. I think it's pretty clear what a prediction is though. It's when someone says something is going to take place on a certain date. They often will say it is a word from the Lord. No, I don't think giving one's opinion is predicting but I would caution you about setting dates.

How is it "setting dates" when it is just a calculation which seems obvious.

For instance Jesus said there will be an "hour of temptation."

Peter wrote that in God's calculations a day is equal to 1000 years.

A 1000 year day divided by the 24 hours of a day = 41.6 years


The Old testament Covenant Israelits were made by God to wander in the desert of temptation for 40 odd years. Jesus was "tempted" in the desert for "40 days." So "temptation time" is in both of these prominent cases "40." What about our "hour of temptation" which calculates at 40 years?

Is this date setting or is it just "searching the scriptures" and considering them wisely?

 

[itdepends]

"I will meet you at the restaurant tomorrow at 3pm". That's setting a date. If you fail to meet that date, it falls on you and you can go from there as to your reasons why.

"My boss told me, to tell you, that he will meet you at the restaurant tomorrow at 3pm". That's being the middle man for your boss in the date setting. Speaking on his behalf. If the boss doesn't show up, we could ask you why. If we ask the boss and your boss says, "I never told her to tell anyone that ...." then we have an issue that could be further explored by questioning the boss, and/or questioning you, should we even care to. This is closer to claiming fact, or truth, or misrepresenting fact or truth, specifically in the name of someone else.

Now if you say something like, "Well, my boss has in the past been at that restaurant on Tuesdays, at 3pm .... so I think he'll probably be there this Tuesday at 3pm again." That's a guess. A prediction. Taking into account past history to predict future events based on probability, etc and so forth. If you're wrong, you're wrong. That's that. If someone takes you seriously and shows up, and you're wrong ... they knew going in that it was a GUESS. It may make you less reliable in their eyes, or not. Who knows. Depends on the person I suppose. This is more the equivalent of searching scriptures in an attempt to understand something or figure something out.

 

[NumberOneSon]

But i preach dates harshly!

But I don't recall any of your dates having passed yet. I could be wrong though.

 

[dana b]

I tend to disregard predicting when things like the Second Coming or Judgment day happen. It clearly states in the Bible that only the Father knows those times. Matthew 24:36-37 states clearly what Jesus said (And I will post it in several translations in case you do not believe one over the other)

“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. (NIV)

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. (NKJV)

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (KJV)

But of that day and hour knoweth no one, not even the angels of heaven, neither the Son, but the Father only. And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. (ASV)

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. (RSV-Catholic Edition)

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. (RSV)

According to Revelation 20 of the Bible, Judgment Day falls after the Second Coming. And if No one but the Father knows when the second coming takes place, neither can we then know when Judgment day comes. The pattern goes according to the Bible as follows: First Satan is bould up for a thousand years and Jesus returns to gathers up his children into heaven (Second Coming). After the Thousand years expires, Satan is released to deceive the nations. Then the Battle of Armegeddon where Satan is finally cast into the lake of fire and destroyed. Then comes Judgment day! Where all will have to answer for their works.

In short, In order to know when Judgment day occurs, one will also have to know the time of the second coming as they are all tied together in a set period of time. And again, as Jesus Stated in Matthew, NOBODY BUT THE FATHER knows when the Second Coming takes place.

It's the years that can be calculated as Daniel did.

"In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years,..........." Dan.9;2


No one knows the hour or day. But Jesus set the "acceptable year of our lord" into our Christian Calendar. That was the original purpose of the Calendar. It was to "count the years until his return."

 

[dana b]

But I don't recall any of your dates having passed yet. I could be wrong though.

How about this chart?

 

[NumberOneSon]

I have never come across anyone on these forums (or any other forum for that matter) who claims to be a prophet,

They are pretty rare, but posters do come along every now and then who either claim to be one of the Two Witnesses or some other form of prophet. I think there was a guy last year who stopped by and tried to claim he was John the Baptist (seriously).

 

[NumberOneSon]

How about this chart?

But I'm not seeing anything that is really all that testable other than the Christian Millenium in 2041 or Judgement Day in 3000. Both dates are too far into the future (and I'll be dead before one of them). Will the 2020 date contain an event that will verify or nullify the truthfulness of your chart?